E-cigarettes: research - experiments - ideas

[Mari]

Is there something to pay attention when buying VG?

I see that on the market there are VGs with different purity; some claim that they are 100% VG, some are 99,8%, some are 99,5% and it never says what is the other 0,3% or 0,5%. Does this matter?

Or is it only important that is safe, in terms that it is food grade or that it can be used in cosmetics or...?

 

[broken.english]

Or is it only important that is safe, in terms that it is food grade or that it can be used in cosmetics or...?

Food grade is ok
or
when it is good enough for horses you can use it with confidence.

 

[broken.english]

when it is good enough for horses you can use it with confidence.

For clarification:

My vg is actually from a horse feed shop.

 

[Nathan]

But that is just one case in many, so you have to decide for yourself what is better for you.

when it is good enough for horses you can use it with confidence.

Horses for courses!

 

[Scottie]

Time for an update:

After puffing on 50/50 water/VG solution at 10mg/mL nicotine strength for 5 days, we both noticed a sore throat and slightly phlegmy lungs. We changed to 60/40 at 6mg/mL nicotine strength the next day...

And then we read @broken.english's post about pH of e-liquids: D'OH!

We used pH strips and tested various solutions:

- Commercial 50/50 PG/VG 9mg: 6.5
- Commercial 70/30 PG/VG 6mg: 6.5

So far, so good, right? The pH of mouth/throat is 6.5... But:

- Our 50/50 H2O/VG 6mg: 9
- Our 50/50 H2O/VG 10mg: 9+

So we made an ascorbic acid solution and kept adding drops of it while testing pH (instead of just using pure distilled water).
The Vit C solution is 0.05%: 5g of Vit C in 100mL of distilled water.

We now have a 60/40 VG/H2O solution at 6mg/mL that is pH 6.5.

Made it like so:
- 3mL nicotine (100% VG)
- 3mL VG
- 2mL distilled water
- 22 drops Vit C solution
[shake & test pH here, should be 6.5]
- Top off with distilled water until you get a full 10mL bottle! 20 drops = 1mL

It's WAAAAY gentler than the old stuff we made!!

We tried it for a few days and indeed, the irritation cleared up.

Apparently, store-bought stuff often includes benzoic acid to neutralize the alkaline nicotine. VG is pretty neutral. Don't have any PG to test. Our almost-pure distilled water is 6.5.

Today, I brewed a batch of 70/30 VG/H2O at 6mg, pH balanced! Even 60/40 was a bit too watery and not so pleasant to puff on all day.

It appears that some nicotine boosters are pH balanced, and some are not. The ones we bought online definitely were not. They are off-the-charts alkaline.

So, if you make your own brews, be very careful about the pH of the end product. If it's not 6.5-7, you're in big trouble!

 

[broken.english]

Time for an update:

After puffing on 50/50 water/VG solution at 10mg/mL nicotine strength for 5 days, we both noticed a sore throat and slightly phlegmy lungs. We changed to 60/40 at 6mg/mL nicotine strength the next day...

And then we read @broken.english's post about pH of e-liquids: D'OH!

We used pH strips and tested various solutions:

- Commercial 50/50 PG/VG 9mg: 6.5
- Commercial 70/30 PG/VG 6mg: 6.5

So far, so good, right? The pH of mouth/throat is 6.5... But:

- Our 50/50 H2O/VG 6mg: 9
- Our 50/50 H2O/VG 10mg: 9+

So we made an ascorbic acid solution and kept adding drops of it while testing pH (instead of just using pure distilled water).
The Vit C solution is 0.05%: 5g of Vit C in 100mL of distilled water.

We now have a 60/40 VG/H2O solution at 6mg/mL that is pH 6.5.

Made it like so:
- 3mL nicotine (100% VG)
- 3mL VG
- 2mL distilled water
- 22 drops Vit C solution
[shake & test pH here, should be 6.5]
- Top off with distilled water until you get a full 10mL bottle! 20 drops = 1mL

It's WAAAAY gentler than the old stuff we made!!

We tried it for a few days and indeed, the irritation cleared up.

Apparently, store-bought stuff often includes benzoic acid to neutralize the alkaline nicotine. VG is pretty neutral. Don't have any PG to test. Our almost-pure distilled water is 6.5.

Today, I brewed a batch of 70/30 VG/H2O at 6mg, pH balanced! Even 60/40 was a bit too watery and not so pleasant to puff on all day.

It appears that some nicotine boosters are pH balanced, and some are not. The ones we bought online definitely were not. They are off-the-charts alkaline.

So, if you make your own brews, be very careful about the pH of the end product. If it's not 6.5-7, you're in big trouble!

Excellent, Scottie!

For ph measurement, do you have an electronic device and is it recommendable? I want to buy one.

 

[Chu]

For ph measurement, do you have an electronic device and is it recommendable? I want to buy o

No just, the standard Ph strips for urine. We pour a drip of the solution on the strips, and that's it.

 

[Obi]

We still need to find a source of nicotine NOT in PG or VG here in the EU, but one thing at a time!

Well, I can purchase 1kg of pure nicotine powder here in Poland for around 250 euro incl. VAT on my company account once I find the vaporizer that works with distilled water. I could possibly send you 100gr or so, but I only expect it to be in early August due to financial contraints. If you can wait 2-3 weeks, I'll get you the nicotine powder then.

 

[Yas]

So, if you make your own brews, be very careful about the pH of the end product. If it's not 6.5-7, you're in big trouble!

That's interesting! Thank you for sharing the detailed recipe and explanation!

As an update, I finally got a Gen Fit 40 device which I bought with a comercial liquid just to start and try out. I really like the taste and I can tell that it has way too much nicotine for me, even though the one I bought wasn't the strongest in the store.

At the beginning I coughed a lot , but I'm learning how to vape now. I'm using the default settings and the coil that comes with the device, I'll try other settings and coils later on.

 

[broken.english]

once I find the vaporizer that works with distilled water.

In general all vaporizers work with distilled water resp. a mix with water. Some are more leak proof than others. Airflow from the top is safer than from the bottom.

 

[Mari]

I bought with a comercial liquid just to start and try out. ......

At the beginning I coughed a lot , but I'm learning how to vape now. I'm using the default settings and the coil that comes with the device, I'll try other settings and coils later on.

I also bought commercial liquid and coughed a lot in the beginning and still after a week I sometimes do (usually when there isn´t enough liquid soaked in the coil or when I do MTL smoking).
What helped me was putting the power basically to minimum - default setting for my vape is 25W (2 ohm coil) but with these liquids, that´s too much for me. So I lowered the power to 16W and opened the air flow completely.

Now I have nicotine salt liquid and STILL higher power is too much for my throat; I tried with 25, then 20, and now I´m on 18W.

With mild commercial liquid (6mg of nicotine) I had an urge to smoke a real cigarette. In the end, I did smoke like 2-3 normal ones per day. Now I´m smoking nic salts liquid (20mg nicotine) and I haven´t thought of lighting up a real cigarette.

So maybe put the power to lower setting than default and open the air flow fully and you won´t cough as much? It worked for me...
And then increase as you get used to it and you change the liquids.
These home made liquids sound much milder as they have water in them so they can be smoked at higher power. IDK,stil have to try them.

Today is 1 week and I still didn´t have to change the coil and my battery lasts for about 1,5 day. So, that lower power works well with both my throat and the coil and the battery duration.

I´m also learning to vape and I figured that MTL smoking (as I did with cigarettes) irritates my throat and looses the flavour. So I learned to smoke DTL and that for some reason works much better with vaping - I get less itching and more flavour.



Also, a general question; how much do you guys vape?
I´m currently at around 3ml per day, smoking nic salts that have 20mg of nicotine. (My tank is 2ml, I refill it every day and I smoke roughly 1,5 of the tank.)

I´m wondering is that a lot compared to you guys?

 

[Scottie]

At the beginning I coughed a lot , but I'm learning how to vape now. I'm using the default settings and the coil that comes with the device, I'll try other settings and coils later on.

That's another curious thing: when we started vaping, we coughed very little - only if we took deep puffs.

For others, I've noticed they cough a lot no matter what.

Is that because we had reduced smoking a lot already, or because it was the PG, or because it varies by person?

No idea, but I'm taking notes...

I should also mention that with the alkaline liquids we made, the first couple of puffs in the morning were VERY harsh on the throat. With the pH-balanced versions, that doesn't happen any more.

 

[Scottie]

So maybe put the power to lower setting than default and open the air flow fully and you won´t cough as much? It worked for me...

That's what we ended up doing, too. That's why a vape with adjustable power and adjustable airflow is handy.

Also, a general question; how much do you guys vape?
I´m currently at around 3ml per day, smoking nic salts that have 20mg of nicotine. (My tank is 2ml, I refill it every day and I smoke roughly 1,5 of the tank.)

Chu and I noticed we vape about 2mL a day at 6mg. Chu is using nothing else, while I'm still doing 3-4 Velo per day (the little nicotine pouches like Zyn). I'm probably going to phase out the Velo slowly now that we have a liquid that works well. Without vaping, I was doing 10-12 Velo a day. Not sure though, because I also like the slow-and-steady nicotine hit that Velo gives... We'll see.

For us, we noticed that even 10mg/mL was too much sometimes - slight nausea and headache from puffing too much. But if you're starting from smoking a lot, more nicotine is better.

Interestingly, nearly every paper/article on vaping these days has a little side remark that nicotine is NOT bad for you. One of our "rules" in our Reduce Smoking Project has been, "Don't limit the nicotine!"

Also, remember that literally no one can tell you how much nicotine is ideal, or how much is absorbed. For example, a typical commercial ciggy contains 10-12mg of nicotine, but only 1-1.5mg is actually absorbed. Vaping is different, as are Velo, patches, nicotine gum, etc. There really is no direct comparison between different nicotine delivery mechanisms, and it also seems to vary by person.

One thing that's clear is that those products marketed as "stop smoking" generally short you on nicotine to try to get you off of it. So if you're using a lot, you're probably doing it right.

So, do what works for you! Maybe we'll end up with general guidelines if everyone reports their experiences.

 

[Mari]

default setting for my vape is 25W (2 ohm coil)

To correct the above; it is 4 ohm coil.

For us, we noticed that even 10mg/mL was too much sometimes - slight nausea and headache from puffing too much. But if you're starting from smoking a lot, more nicotine is better.

These nicotine salts work very well for me; no dizziness, nausea or headache and no urge for the real cigarettes. They are 50/50 PG/VG and it is what it is for the time being. And they do have a high nicotine (20mg) but I´m thinking that with opened airflow and reduced power, that number is quite reduced (maybe by half) and it turns out just the right amount. That´s why probably that 6mg liquids were to weak.

Also I had a thought that my coughing might be a withdrawal symptoms, perhaps cleaning the lungs? Sometimes I loose my voice and I seem not to be able to cough it out. That happens mostly in the evening so it´s hard to tell is it only due to vaping a mix of vaping, possible withdrawal and of course tiredness mixed up all together.

Also, I really like my vape - we are best buddies and go everywhere together and it is quite handy and easy to smoke on the go.

 

[flashgordonv]

To correct the above; it is 4 ohm coil.


These nicotine salts work very well for me; no dizziness, nausea or headache and no urge for the real cigarettes. They are 50/50 PG/VG and it is what it is for the time being. And they do have a high nicotine (20mg) but I´m thinking that with opened airflow and reduced power, that number is quite reduced (maybe by half) and it turns out just the right amount. That´s why probably that 6mg liquids were to weak.

Also I had a thought that my coughing might be a withdrawal symptoms, perhaps cleaning the lungs? Sometimes I loose my voice and I seem not to be able to cough it out. That happens mostly in the evening so it´s hard to tell is it only due to vaping a mix of vaping, possible withdrawal and of course tiredness mixed up all together.

Also, I really like my vape - we are best buddies and go everywhere together and it is quite handy and easy to smoke on the go.

I think you might mean .4 ohm coil. Nobody makes coils bigger than 1.6 ohm. In my experience, the higher the resistance, the cooler and smoother the draw and the lower the power. Theoretically, nic salt is best vaped at a higher resistance and at a 50/50 PG/VG mix at low wattage. I vape nic salt @ 30-50mg nicotine, a 1.2 ohm coil running at 10-12 watts. Whereas freebase liquid is vaped at lower resistance, with lower nicotine levels, bigger vape clouds and higher wattage. Hence the reference to sub ohm vape devices with coils typically .2 and .4 ohms which can offer up to 100 watts+ power.