Eckart Tolle and Adyashanti

[Sol Logos]

Like everything in life we can turn and twist every word like we please. I would not take Adyashanti and his words so lightly and put him in a box with others before I investigate first and then make a opinion. ;
However I appreciate Your point of view alkhemst.

It's hard for me to understand how a person could appreciate an opinion also viewed as twisted and illinformed, so it sounds insincere. I had the same thought in your response to Obyvatel, as if the idea of seeing value in everyone's point of view is a neccessity, so you might be saying it to mask that you feel the exact opposite thing when you disagree with someone. While I definitely believe that all people are valuable, I personally don't extend that to all opinions / points of view because some can be damaging to people if they take them up for example.

 

[obyvatel]

Like everything in life we can turn and twist every word like we please. I would not take Adyashanti and his words so lightly and put him in a box with others before I investigate first and then make a opinion. ;

Deliberate vagueness and a carefully cultivated aura of subtle condescending superiority is what I got from reading Adyashanti's words. The thing about being vague is that others can always fill in the gaps with their own projections and often this ends up in a warm fuzzy feeling. It was so simple after all - all of life's problems trials and tribulations have such a simple solution.

I don't trust "warm and fuzzy". Some time back, I had heard a teacher of Japanese martial arts say that "In my line of work, a warm and fuzzy feeling means I am bleeding". IMO that statement is metaphorically applicable in the case of the same feelings engendered by self-calming teachings which crowd the present day metaphysical marketplace. Gurdjieff described this dynamic in the allegorical tale of the evil magician .

[quote author=Emmanuel]
somehow i have the feeling that IS the connection with C's knowledge and wisdom, just the point of view is different.
[/quote]

They are quite opposite imo. One goes in the direction of life and creativity, the other goes in the direction of identifying with 'nothingness".

OSIT

 

[emmanuel]

Like everything in life we can turn and twist every word like we please. I would not take Adyashanti and his words so lightly and put him in a box with others before I investigate first and then make a opinion. ;
However I appreciate Your point of view alkhemst.

It's hard for me to understand how a person could appreciate an opinion also viewed as twisted and illinformed, so it sounds insincere. I had the same thought in your response to Obyvatel, as if the idea of seeing value in everyone's point of view is a neccessity, so you might be saying it to mask that you feel the exact opposite thing when you disagree with someone. While I definitely believe that all people are valuable, I personally don't extend that to all opinions / points of view because some can be damaging to people if they take them up for example.

Maybe I was not clear enough. In my opinion every living being has a free will to express herself. That is the reason why I said that I appreciate Yours point of view. You have that right even if Your stand is different than mine. Maybe I don't know how to express it with words, because I too believe that all people are precious and valuable and I do this in totally wrong way. If you have that feeling I sincerely apologize.
I try to find different approach. more clear and understandable.

 

[emmanuel]

Like everything in life we can turn and twist every word like we please. I would not take Adyashanti and his words so lightly and put him in a box with others before I investigate first and then make a opinion. ;

Deliberate vagueness and a carefully cultivated aura of subtle condescending superiority is what I got from reading Adyashanti's words. The thing about being vague is that others can always fill in the gaps with their own projections and often this ends up in a warm fuzzy feeling. It was so simple after all - all of life's problems trials and tribulations have such a simple solution.

I don't trust "warm and fuzzy". Some time back, I had heard a teacher of Japanese martial arts say that "In my line of work, a warm and fuzzy feeling means I am bleeding". IMO that statement is metaphorically applicable in the case of the same feelings engendered by self-calming teachings which crowd the present day metaphysical marketplace. Gurdjieff described this dynamic in the allegorical tale of the evil magician .

[quote author=Emmanuel]
somehow i have the feeling that IS the connection with C's knowledge and wisdom, just the point of view is different.

They are quite opposite imo. One goes in the direction of life and creativity, the other goes in the direction of identifying with 'nothingness".

OSIT
[/quote]

You can not express everything with the words. That is my opinion. Certain "things" You just "sense" and ad least for me, is very difficult to find the words for it. You may be also agree that everything You sense and feel is sometimes impossible to say. That "unsayable"( behind the words ) i find in Adyashanti presence. Not just in words. I can't interpret it. It's the presence behind. With no words. And THAT is what I mean "the connection with Cassiopaeans". That invisible, positive force...

 

[Renaissance]

I wasn't familiar with Adyashanti, so I looked him up on youtube and got the same impression as you, obyvatel. His manner of speaking utilizes a soft tone, numerous pauses for emphasis, word salads, spiritual vanity (i.e. implied speshulness of this 'spirituality'), and vagueness as mentioned. It's pretty typical of how most New Age gurus speak, and I found it condescending as well. The theme of one of the videos I watched was about the 'emptiness' of awareness. His message is similar to much of the other 'emptying your mind', self calming and ego stuff we've seen before. From what I saw, it has nothing to do with practical or esoteric knowledge and is pretty much the opposite of what we're doing here.

[quote author=Emmanuel]
You can not express everything with the words. That is my opinion. Certain "things" You just "sense" and ad least for me, is very difficult to find the words for it. You may be also agree that everything You sense and feel is sometimes impossible to say. That "unsayable"( behind the words ) i find in Adyashanti presence. Not just in words. I can't interpret it. It's the presence behind. With no words. And THAT is what I mean "the connection with Cassiopaeans". That invisible, positive force...
[/quote]

I wouldn't rely much on those senses (for starters check out this thread and this one). They can get you in a pickle and put your trust in predators who are excellent manipulators of such senses. Many pathological types are able to project a super-normal presence and unless you have a strong foundation of knowledge in psychopathy and the particular branches of cognitive science mentioned in above threads, then you'll likely be vulnerable to them.

 

[truth seeker]

You can not express everything with the words. That is my opinion. Certain "things" You just "sense" and ad least for me, is very difficult to find the words for it. You may be also agree that everything You sense and feel is sometimes impossible to say. That "unsayable"( behind the words ) i find in Adyashanti presence. Not just in words. I can't interpret it. It's the presence behind. With no words. And THAT is what I mean "the connection with Cassiopaeans". That invisible, positive force...

I'm not so sure that someone telling me what I like to hear is 'positive'. I'd much prefer that someone tell me the truth (which often isn't very 'positive') whether I 'like' hearing it or not.

 

[emmanuel]

Thanks for the info Shane. For me is not easy reading because the english language is not my native, but what I read so far is very, very helpful. It explain that is so much more in the so-called senses that I was aware of.

 

[anart]

You can not express everything with the words. That is my opinion. Certain "things" You just "sense" and ad least for me, is very difficult to find the words for it. You may be also agree that everything You sense and feel is sometimes impossible to say. That "unsayable"( behind the words ) i find in Adyashanti presence. Not just in words. I can't interpret it. It's the presence behind. With no words. And THAT is what I mean "the connection with Cassiopaeans". That invisible, positive force...

Hi - I think reading this thread on Opinions might help you understand why opinions are not given much weight here. http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,3925.msg25911.html#msg25911
It might help you understand more fully why you are receiving the responses you are receiving.

 

[emmanuel]

You can not express everything with the words. That is my opinion. Certain "things" You just "sense" and ad least for me, is very difficult to find the words for it. You may be also agree that everything You sense and feel is sometimes impossible to say. That "unsayable"( behind the words ) i find in Adyashanti presence. Not just in words. I can't interpret it. It's the presence behind. With no words. And THAT is what I mean "the connection with Cassiopaeans". That invisible, positive force...

I'm not so sure that someone telling me what I like to hear is 'positive'. I'd much prefer that someone tell me the truth (which often isn't very 'positive') whether I 'like' hearing it or not.

Agree. I didn't mean this in new age or" dark-light side" context. What I wonted to express was just this "invisible link", that "knowing not knowing how You know". I assume everybody in life had sometimes this kind of experience, You know, just that You know something and You don't know how You know this. There is no logical explanation. You just know.

 

[emmanuel]

You can not express everything with the words. That is my opinion. Certain "things" You just "sense" and ad least for me, is very difficult to find the words for it. You may be also agree that everything You sense and feel is sometimes impossible to say. That "unsayable"( behind the words ) i find in Adyashanti presence. Not just in words. I can't interpret it. It's the presence behind. With no words. And THAT is what I mean "the connection with Cassiopaeans". That invisible, positive force...

Hi - I think reading this thread on Opinions might help you understand why opinions are not given much weight here. http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,3925.msg25911.html#msg25911
It might help you understand more fully why you are receiving the responses you are receiving.

"Then one must learn to speak the truth. This also appears strange to
you. You do not realize that one has to learn to speak the truth. It seems
to you that it is enough to wish or to decide to do so. And I tell you that
people comparatively rarely tell a deliberate lie. In most cases they think
they speak the truth. And yet they lie all the time, both when they wish to
lie and when they wish to speak the truth. They lie all the time, both to
themselves and to others.

Therefore nobody ever understands either himself or anyone else.

Think-could there be such discord, such deep misunderstanding, and such
hatred towards the views and opinions of others, if people were able to
understand one another?

But they cannot understand because they cannot help lying. To speak the
truth is the most difficult thing in the world; and one must study a great
deal and for a long time in order to be able to speak the truth. The wish
alone is not enough. To speak the truth one must know what the truth is and
what a lie is, and first of all in oneself And this nobody wants to
know."

Thank You Anart.

 

[Gonzo]

My mind has interpreted that quote differently as I grow. Before I knew that I could not trust my own mind, I thought it only came down to intent, since I already thought I understood myself. As I later learned, understanding oneself is part of the life's work. The arrogance and lack of wisdom of my youth could not possibly see how little I truly knew.

One thing I wished someone had told me earlier, and this was mentioned by Anart in another thread (http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,22332.msg356608.html#msg356608), to eliminate using the word resonate when considering one's impression of something. I came across all sorts of things that "resonated" with me that later turned out to be distractions or worse. This is by design. Truth is melded with lies by those who wish to keep us off of our paths. We can easily be manipulated into sensing that something rings true but the reality is, that until we clean our machines, eliminate our programs and grow in knowledge and awareness, we will never be able to see or even sense the truth without a network of individuals aligned in the quest of truth through objective feedback.

If I had a dollar for every time I felt something rang true (or resonated), well let's just say le Chateau would not need repairs for a while.

Any time you find yourself thinking a person seems honest or their message seems true, remember that there are experts who know how to craft such experiences in you and that being able to discern them from the real McCoy takes years of focused work, learning from mistakes and a network. This forum proves there definitely is strength in numbers.

Gonzo

 

[Sol Logos]

Maybe I was not clear enough. In my opinion every living being has a free will to express herself. That is the reason why I said that I appreciate Yours point of view. You have that right even if Your stand is different than mine. Maybe I don't know how to express it with words, because I too believe that all people are precious and valuable and I do this in totally wrong way. If you have that feeling I sincerely apologize.
I try to find different approach. more clear and understandable.

That's OK, I didn't feel bad about what you said. It could be a language barrier, but to clarify this is how I read it:

Like everything in life we can turn and twist every word like we please. I would not take Adyashanti and his words so lightly and put him in a box with others before I investigate first and then make a opinion. ;

I understood that to mean the reply I made about Adyashanti is distorted, subjective and not informed.

But then you said this:

However I appreciate Your point of view alkhemst.

So all I was getting at is that it appears to be a contradiction, that's all.

You have that right even if Your stand is different than mine.

I'm not sure about this one. While I see that people have free will, does that also mean that people have the right to express it in whatever way they want. It kind of implies for example that people have the right to kill others because that's just how they express their free will. That idea of have a "right" is something to approach with caution in my view.

 

[ROEL]

Oprah needs to keep her audience ratings. Maybe she is just bringing in Tolle to be seen as open minded (good for publicity) about inner work. And in doing so, she is inadvertently bringing in more people in contact with somebody who talks about searching inside oneself and going beyond the surface.

 

[Sol Logos]

I'd say the philosophy rather keeps people on the surface and promotes the avoidance of depth but as its portrayed as doing the exact opposite, there lies its danger. People want to believe that pain is not real or that it's not found outside and especially not inside of us, and so while everything's crumbling around and inside of us, we can withdraw into "the now", a happy place, to go on ignoring reality. It might sound like a harsh take on Tolle, who gives many valuable insights but it's the subjects he avoids, those same subjects that would cancel out his mass appeal, that makes his stuff on the whole "a lullaby for adults" (mentioned earlier in the thread).

An interesting side note is that slow speech that many "spiritual" people use. Tolle does it, so too apparently Adyashanti. Its a thing many channelers seem to do too, maybe it's a by product of a strained connection, I'm not sure but my point is, is it possible these guys are just living their lives out in constant channelling? Maybe they don't know it, or don't want to know but maybe they've given away their own identity, to be something of worth to the outside world at some point in their lives. It's interesting, in this respect that Tolle for example had the sudden "enlightenment" when he was completely down in the dumps, a time when many people decide they just don't want to be themselves. I believe David Hawkins and Neale Donald Walsch had similiar sudden moments of "complete awareness" when they too were at devestation points. If there's no magic switch to enlightenment, then it makes sense to me that something else (or someone else) might be at work in these cases.

 

[obyvatel]

An interesting side note is that slow speech that many "spiritual" people use. Tolle does it, so too apparently Adyashanti. Its a thing many channelers seem to do too, maybe it's a by product of a strained connection, I'm not sure but my point is, is it possible these guys are just living their lives out in constant channelling? Maybe they don't know it, or don't want to know but maybe they've given away their own identity, to be something of worth to the outside world at some point in their lives. It's interesting, in this respect that Tolle for example had the sudden "enlightenment" when he was completely down in the dumps, a time when many people decide they just don't want to be themselves. I believe David Hawkins and Neale Donald Walsch had similiar sudden moments of "complete awareness" when they too were at devestation points. If there's no magic switch to enlightenment, then it makes sense to me that something else (or someone else) might be at work in these cases.

Slow speech is used in hypnotic induction; the listeners' brains go into alpha state which is accompanied by a sense of relaxation. The effect is a slow-down of thinking so that the incoming message is more likely to be accepted as true without enough critical deliberation.