Éiriú-Eolas - Breathing Program

[Aiming]

So do you think this is why you might be leaning towards certain people, so that you have someone to trust?

I've never seen it that way, but now that you mention it (thanks!), yes, I think this is exactly the case with me, too. That's a pattern I've been seeing in me and could never make a sense of really.

*edit* to add, Puzzle and Oxajil (along with many many other forum members) your posts have touched me in the past too......it seems to be something that happens when we are working in the same direction....so perhaps it is also a recognition of walking the same path?

I think so too. I guess you could use the symbol of Family, that this is a group of family members, and the more we know about each other's development > the more we help each other > the more we create a bond with each other. It's like spending time with each other, and we are bonding this way.
I think it is quite natural and healthy to some extent.

Was thinking along the same lines some time ago and think it makes a lot of sense.

Yesterday’s session was interesting. During the Pipe Breathing I again felt an inrush of heat into my head, which remained till the end of Pipe Br.
All throughout BaHa I had images of my bf and his manipulative/predatory ways, actually of his predatory nature. So much as for ‘true love’. Today I woke up feeling totally alienated from him. It’s really time to think this all through with a hammer and then write a post for the Swamp.
It was also the first time that I brought something back from zoning. I was with this group. It was as if I had just joined you, had just entered through the borders of where the group stayed, and I saw I had markings on my back, something written there like a text, like a tattoo or more like a branding maybe. This got the group’s attention immediately – suddenly Laura rushed through the crowd, coming up to me and said that if I have these markings I have to be really careful and she went on to explain something to me about what I need to include or leave out for my diet; unfortunately I don’t remember it anymore, only that red meat had been mentioned. Something I don’t eat by the way.

edit: Forgot to add that I had explicitly asked DCM before starting the program to clear my eyes that I may I see clearly concerning my bf and our relationship and myself in this relationship. Cuz honestly, after posting here about me probably having a true love, I started thinking about it a lot and felt like a fool for even assuming it could be true love. After writing about this maybe true love to the network I got the feeling that I was deluding myself; maybe this is one aspect you were talking about, truth seeker, when you said that networking brings about changes? As if exposing one's inner material to the network, it -on another level- gets a feedback from the network, without even having to be spelled out directly? However that may actually be, it's a really interesting process.

 

[RedFox]

Blimey....there are some interesting experiences going on. I've just started doing the full program again (have been just doing the pipe breathing and POTS until this week). Remembering to ask the DCM specific questions (in regard to seeing what needs to be seen) is something I'm learning slowly....but your right puzzle. I think I'm going to ask about my relationship and about my interactions with others.
Most of my questions have been vague ones about diet/health....they need to be more specific I think.

As to bringing stuff back from zoning out Puzzle, how is your diet going? Have you cut out wheat/dairy/sugar/soy/msg? Have you started the ultra simple/elimination diet?
Perhaps having something written on your body symbolises your body sending you a message you can't quite see/read yet (not enough knowledge to interpret the signal basically)? The most obvious one I can think of is do you get any skin rashes/problems of some sort?
With connection to the diet element I'd suggest that if you haven't started dealing with cleaning up your diet yet, now would be an excellent time to do so! fwiw

 

[truth seeker]

maybe this is one aspect you were talking about, truth seeker, when you said that networking brings about changes? As if exposing one's inner material to the network, it -on another level- gets a feedback from the network, without even having to be spelled out directly? However that may actually be, it's a really interesting process.

If I remember the context I was speaking in when I said that, I believe I meant that networking, in a sense, clears the air. In a way, it's like speaking the truth to a lie. The lie being our subjective viewpoint and the truth being the more objective viewpoint that the network provides. By networking, the lie (in whatever form it may take) has no place to fester but rather is brought out into the light and seen for what it is.

In my experience, the change brought about can almost be instantaneous although depending on the situation, it may take longer. It can present as relief that something hidden has been spoken/let go of while also providing confirmation that we can trust others with our deepest fears and not be rejected. This can make us more open to trusting others and ourselves as well as make us more compassionate to others who are in the same situation. If general law is what happens when we engage in a lie, choosing to speak or see the truth breaks the hold of entropy and from there all possibilities become available.

Just my opinion but while this can occur as a shift in thought and should begin there, I "think" there is a definite action that needs to take place via sharing to have it's fullest effect. In the second to the last post, I wrote about this blue rectangle. If I just stayed with the thought that it was just me experiencing weird stuff, I would never really know if it was just me or not. This can hook into specialness programs and fester with me never knowing if others are going through it or not (which is a lie). By posting about it, I broke the chain of that loop. It then opened the way for someone who may also been thinking about the same thing but also didn't want to post (out of some internal fear or program they had). Well, manitoban posted and now I know that it's not just me but at least one other person and probably more. It also provides the knowledge to others of what they may expect and lets them know that they are not the only ones either. When we break the chains of entropy, we not only free ourselves, but others as well. Hope that makes sense, if not, let me know. :)

In regards to asking, again this is just my opinion based on my own experiences, I do this as well. I wouldn't call it so much an asking but more of a seeking or focus of intent. I'll take it to it's simplest phrase so as not to get too focused on trying to remember what I'm saying. I may focus on "self remembering". Sometimes it's programs that I may or may not be sure I have like: "self importance" or "be nice". Sometimes the intent is on feelings: "anger", "fear" or "sadness/grief". Still other times, the focus is on "past life/karma" or "blockages". The last two, I'll combine with feelings as: "releasing grief karma". When I was focusing on anger at my mother/parents and combined that with journaling, within that week I was able to access previously hidden anger that was coming out in inappropriate ways.

I'll try to do these just before bed so that if there's something that needs to be released or realized, it can hopefully come while sleeping. All of this is attempted to be done without anticipation of any particular outcome or time frame. You do it and let it go. If anyone feels this is incorrect, feel free to let me know.

 

[RedFox]

I'll try to do these just before bed so that if there's something that needs to be released or realized, it can hopefully come while sleeping. All of this is attempted to be done without anticipation of any particular outcome or time frame. You do it and let it go.

I understand this asking (putting a request/intent out there with no anticipation as to the results) the DCM during POTS the same way....thanks for bringing it up because it reminded me that I'd forgotten to 'let it go' after asking

 

[truth seeker]

I'll try to do these just before bed so that if there's something that needs to be released or realized, it can hopefully come while sleeping. All of this is attempted to be done without anticipation of any particular outcome or time frame. You do it and let it go.

I understand this asking (putting a request/intent out there with no anticipation as to the results) the DCM during POTS the same way....thanks for bringing it up because it reminded me that I'd forgotten to 'let it go' after asking

One thing that just came to mind, if you don't know what to focus on, you can set the intention for "whatever most needs to be worked on".

What I'm not sure of is whether these phrases should be repeated or not. I would think that they wouldn't have to be. Perhaps I'll try that, but up to now, I repeat them for whatever period of time without attachment if that makes sense.

 

[RedFox]

I'll try to do these just before bed so that if there's something that needs to be released or realized, it can hopefully come while sleeping. All of this is attempted to be done without anticipation of any particular outcome or time frame. You do it and let it go.

I understand this asking (putting a request/intent out there with no anticipation as to the results) the DCM during POTS the same way....thanks for bringing it up because it reminded me that I'd forgotten to 'let it go' after asking

One thing that just came to mind, if you don't know what to focus on, you can set the intention for "whatever most needs to be worked on".

What I'm not sure of is whether these phrases should be repeated or not. I would think that they wouldn't have to be. Perhaps I'll try that, but up to now, I repeat them for whatever period of time without attachment if that makes sense.

That's useful to know, thanks. I had been using the phrase "whatever I most need to know"....ironically I wonder if asking this caused my health problems to become slightly more to my awareness (by becoming more of a problem?) in order for me to learn "what I most need to know" about myself? Not that that's a bad thing.....
I usually hold the idea in my head, and repeat it a few times in the quiet spots between phrases....but only for the first or second verse, as I don't want to be altering things.
I will try saying it in my head once before the POTS and leave it at that.

 

[truth seeker]

I usually hold the idea in my head, and repeat it a few times in the quiet spots between phrases....but only for the first or second verse, as I don't want to be altering things.

Yes, I think this is a crucial point. What we "think" we need to work on or learn may not be the case. So it may be better to just say "whatever I need or most need to learn". That way we are not making assumptions and in the process, hindering ourselves by thinking we know what is better for us than the universe. Thanks for the reminder. :)

Just further clarification for those reading: Attempting this without doing the necessary work on ourselves, I think amounts to little more than hoping for change without doing anything. The diet, intake of knowledge and ee work in conjunction with each other. I believe when one of these is lagging, the balance (and thus growth) is upset and hindered.

 

[Gawan]

This one made me cry, Gawan. (Now I feel a connection to you. Lol, just joking.)

This one made me laugh. ;D

Wow, I wouldn't have expected anyone to identify with what I post. But I understand and am glad that it has encouraged you to post more! :) And thanks for sharing, DanielS, it's comforting to know that my struggle to post can also have an effect on others. :)

Yes, sometimes it's a little bit like magic.

AI's description is really useful, and its one I have to keep reminding myself of.
Having said that, a lot of you have been on my mind recently also.....I have conversations (internal forum posts) with you lot all the time!

I remember most often feedback to my posts and these -answers- are sometimes then a reminder for myself, when similar situations occur again, maybe it's like working "with a hammer" to shape the brain/behaviour.

I actually have a question regarding zoning out....I read a quote from In Search of the Miraculous that Bud had posted some time ago....and it sounded just like zoning out.....or am I just wishfully thinking here? Is this in fact what zoning out is?

The fourth state of consciousness (C4) is called the objective state of consciousness. In this state a man can see things as they are. Flashes of this state of consciousness also occur in man. In the religions of all nations there are indications of the possibility of a state of consciousness of this kind which is called `enlightenment' and various other names but which cannot be described in words. But the only right way to objective consciousness is through the development of self-consciousness. If an ordinary man is artificially brought into a state of objective consciousness and afterwards brought back to his usual state he will remember nothing and he will think that for a time he had lost consciousness. But in the state of self-consciousness a man can have flashes of objective consciousness and remember them.

In my opinion you are right, but I can't remember now if Laura talked about it, or if it is somewhere else written on the forum. At least what I remember, zoning out is a chance to meet your true or higher self.

*edit* to add, Puzzle and Oxajil (along with many many other forum members) your posts have touched me in the past too......it seems to be something that happens when we are working in the same direction....so perhaps it is also a recognition of walking the same path?

I agree, well sometimes I also feel a kind of connection. ;)




Yesterdays session I felt asleep, slept for some hours woke up again to finish some stuff and slept again till morning, with intense dreams and in the afternoon I had to sleep again for 2 hours. Tonight though, I did again the hole program (awake), which was very good, what is happening a lot during the meditation part, when I repeat the phrase "clear my eyes..." I see a lot of times myself in a mirror. Also my intuition is getting more active, where I sometimes know, what I should do and when I haven't done so, this "voice" was pretty accurate.

 

[Ollie]

A productive week from the E-E programme, on Tuesday, after reading what looks to be a useful book for reclaiming emotions previously denied, I had tears rolling down my face at the end of PotS. On Thursday I experienced pain at the back of my right shoulder where it joins the neck – not certain what this is.

 

[Gawan]

On Thursday I experienced pain at the back of my right shoulder where it joins the neck – not certain what this is.

At which part of the programme did it happen to you? Maybe try to relax the upper part (shoulders, arms) that these parts of the body just hang down.

 

[Ollie]

On Thursday I experienced pain at the back of my right shoulder where it joins the neck – not certain what this is.

At which part of the programme did it happen to you? Maybe try to relax the upper part (shoulders, arms) that these parts of the body just hang down.

It was whilst I was lying down, with my neck supported by a cork block, listening to PotS - so pretty relaxed.

 

[Gertrudes]

Yes, I think this is a crucial point. What we "think" we need to work on or learn may not be the case. So it may be better to just say "whatever I need or most need to learn". That way we are not making assumptions and in the process, hindering ourselves by thinking we know what is better for us than the universe. Thanks for the reminder. Smiley

I have a question that's been on my mind. When directing myself to the DCM, or God as I used to call it, I would usually tend to ask for help in growing and dealing with whatever needs to be worked. However, over the past 2 years as I began to understand that the unseen can be quite a jungle, I became reluctant of using less concrete requests for fear of having them being used against me. For example, as in the commonly used new age expression: "for my highest good", that can be used by entities whose vision of our highest good is anything but that. In this case, "whatever I most need to learn" could also be interpreted at an entity's will.
Hmm, perhaps I'm missing something, the concept of learning does not seem to be aligned with an STS dynamic, but with something that would rather appeal to the highest part of ourselves. Therefore, heard by DCM. Am I on the right track?
Or Is the key in the awareness of the person praying, and his/her knowledge of who/what can actually pick up that request, and to whom/what to direct it?



Update on my practice:
I'm working on going back on track with EE after a month of pretty intense work, which affected my practice.

I have, however, been reciting the prayer of the soul everyday when going to and coming from work. These have been precious moments of bliss. I usually recite the prayer in my mind followed by a couple of breaths were I visualize clean purifying air coming in, and the old energy, full of anxiety and stress that have been accumulating in me lately coming out.
Concentrating on the prayer and the cleansing breaths have been excellent in directing my focus from the day to day affairs into a deeper and more connected with myself state of mind.

I have been also feeling the words of the prayer deeper. It is as if I am living them as I think of them. I noticed though, that I didn't understand what the word holy really meant. Sure, I could go to some conventional religious definitions where holy means worthy of complete and blind devotion. I knew, however, that that wasn't the meaning given within the context of the prayer. I did recall having seen the words of the POTS discussed a while back on the forum, and sure enough, here are a few words

In thinking about taking back the meanings of words that have twisted by pathological interventions, I found, in Chambers Etymological Dictionary, this most interesting paragraph about the word ‘holy’:

The primary meaning of the word may have been ’that must be preserved whole or intact, that cannot be transgressed or violated’ which would support its relationship to Old English hal whole […]

Also from wikipedia:

The English word holy dates back to at least the 11th Century with the Old English word hālig, an adjective derived from hāl meaning whole and used to mean 'uninjured, sound, healthy, entire, complete

The prayer gained a different meaning after I acknowledged the meaning of this word. It became....more complete, whole, as the word itself :)

 

[Oxajil]

Hmm, perhaps I'm missing something, the concept of learning does not seem to be aligned with an STS dynamic, but with something that would rather appeal to the highest part of ourselves. Therefore, heard by DCM. Am I on the right track?

Yes I would say you are. If you are directing to DCM, you are directing to Him/Her. You decide that, I think. And I think you've been doing it just fine with asking for help. And you could also ask things that don't have much to do with your learning directly, for example asking for help with money, or asking for protection etc.

 

[Gertrudes]

Yes I would say you are. If you are directing to DCM, you are directing to Him/Her. You decide that, I think. And I think you've been doing it just fine with asking for help. And you could also ask things that don't have much to do with your learning directly, for example asking for help with money, or asking for protection etc.

Thank you Oxajil.

I'm still working on my "talks" with DCM.
Despite the fact that I have lately tended to be more concrete, I have often hesitated when asking for help with some specific things, such as money for example. I don't know what is or isn't part of my lesson, so I tend to ask DCM to help me see and understand what I need to in order to progress with those specific issues. I think that you have worded it well when you said: "help with money", it doesn't dictate how you wish to see you request fulfilled, but rather expresses an open wish for help with a particular problem.

 

[Approaching Infinity]

Yes, I think this is a crucial point. What we "think" we need to work on or learn may not be the case. So it may be better to just say "whatever I need or most need to learn". That way we are not making assumptions and in the process, hindering ourselves by thinking we know what is better for us than the universe. Thanks for the reminder. Smiley

I have a question that's been on my mind. When directing myself to the DCM, or God as I used to call it, I would usually tend to ask for help in growing and dealing with whatever needs to be worked. However, over the past 2 years as I began to understand that the unseen can be quite a jungle, I became reluctant of using less concrete requests for fear of having them being used against me. For example, as in the commonly used new age expression: "for my highest good", that can be used by entities whose vision of our highest good is anything but that. In this case, "whatever I most need to learn" could also be interpreted at an entity's will.
Hmm, perhaps I'm missing something, the concept of learning does not seem to be aligned with an STS dynamic, but with something that would rather appeal to the highest part of ourselves. Therefore, heard by DCM. Am I on the right track?
Or Is the key in the awareness of the person praying, and his/her knowledge of who/what can actually pick up that request, and to whom/what to direct it?

Here's a bit from Sophia Wellbeloved's Gurdjieff: The Key Concepts, the entry on prayer:

If a prayer is said so that the meaning of each word is considered and questioned (e.g. the prayer "God have mercy upon me"), then the thoughts and questions that accompany the prayer will do for the man what he asks God to do. However, this prayer repeated mechanically can have no beneficial results. ... While his wife was dying, Gurdjieff asked [Fritz] Peters to make a strong wish for her, saying that a wish from the heart can help, like a prayer, when it is for someone else, through not for oneself ...

She also quotes from Patterson's Voices in the Dark, which contains transcripts of talks Gurdjieff gave in occupied Paris during the war. He said that pupils can pray to their ideal to help them guard what they have obtained in their exercises.

So there are wishes/prayers for others, and for ourselves. To me, a prayer to DCM is a kind of "fake it till you make it" thing. By repeating the prayer and really meditating on it, we hope to live and experience the content of the prayer, for example, clearing our eyes and hears, cleansing our heart, knowing and loving true existence, embodying the DCM in our daily lives and being sustained by it. And we can pray to our higher self, our ideal, to keep what we have experienced and learned in our Being, to integrate into ourselves. Gurdjieff and Dabrowski talked about the ideal as an "intermediate self". It's the part between us "as we are", and God/DCM. It's the personal ideal we strive towards, step by step. There's also this to consider, from the Wave:

What is wrong with efforts to send love and light, the achieving of the goals of world peace or personal prosperity? What is wrong with wanting a return to God, or higher consciousness or any of the touted experiences that are guaranteed to initiate a person to whatever they desire? The problem is anticipation. When you seek any of these things by holding the thoughts in the left-brain in anticipation of making it real, you are raping the maiden of the well.

What if you are just trying to believe it is now? Belief is a function of the left brain; it blocks the manifestation of creativity because the creative right brain is also the empirical half of the brain that observes the dichotomy between the belief and the reality.

Desire is anticipation. Anticipation is read by the right brain as in the future, therefore not right now, and the right brain can only create now. When we desire, we have a future object in mind. The right brain only knows now.

If we desire to love God, we have a concept (left brain) of the future goal of loving God. It can’t exist now. Therefore we experience struggle to constantly love God, against the ongoing now of not loving God.

If we desire to win the lottery, and produce in the left brain future image of money flowing into our life, it isn’t now. So now continues moneyless.

If we desire happiness, and create the concept in the left brain, we have future happiness in mind. And the right brain reads it as unhappiness now, and this can manifest in thousands of unhappy experiences.

By the same token, if we send love and light to any directed recipient, we are holding a concept of future fixing that signals a state of brokenness now to our right brain, and the repercussions are felt in our life. In a larger sense, we may be signaling the collective right brain that a future state of peace is desired, and therefore, now is not peaceful. And so the right brain creates now. The perception of linear time constantly projects rewards into the future, blocking access to the present, like a donkey chasing a carrot for all eternity.

I think this is important to keep in mind when making "petitioning" prayers for certain things or outcomes. That's not the purpose of real prayer, as in the POTS. By meditating on the words of the POTS, it's like we resonate with them, with the effect that the words become true in our lives. Focusing on the meaning, and feeling the content of the words, turns off the left-brain anticipation.

I watched a talk by psychiatrist Daniel Siegel, who has done work on attachment theory and empathy. He gives an example at the end of the talk where he repeats "No" several times to the audience, and then "Yes" as well. The tone he uses conveys a lot of feeling content. "No" pushes people away, closes them off, makes them defensive. "Yes" draws them near and creates a sense of harmony and togetherness. The way I see the POTS is as a kind of "Yes" to the universe. I guess Gurdjieff would say "Holy Affirming". It's saying "yes" and being open to the words of the prayer in the present, as opposed to the "no" which is inherent in anticipation.

(Here's the talk I mentioned: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nu7wEr8AnHw)