LQB said:
Divide By Zero said:
Why not point out the issues, or say, I don't think you are right? You can even say "I'm not sure about what you are saying".
I'm sure LQB or others who know a lot about this can chime in and explain whether his reasoning was invalid or not.
He does make valid points and I can say this because I work in the electrical field. 600mV is 0.6 volts. Out of 120 V, that is 0.5% of the RMS of the AC wave. The contacts themselves could have a tiny resistance or induction that affects measured voltage. Or, the wiring which might have other loads in the circuit could be having these microscopic voltage drops. In AC power, if there is inductance or capacitance, the current used during the wave is not as smooth as the sine wave, causing ripples.
However, I am not the one that did the tests, and do not know how frequencies work and whether there is some kind of resonant frequency that could make some these small voltage waves into strong energies that are absorbed by the body, etc.
The issue is not so much the amplitude (as a measure of danger) but the frequency. The high frequency noise components (greater than about 2Khz) begin to penetrate the flesh via capacitive coupling to the body. When this happens you get interference with cellular metabolic function. The Stetzer and Greenwave meters attempt to measure the power in the high frequency noise spectrum, and their reading in mv is a unit of convenience (rather than a direct voltage measurement). Since these meters measure only the high frequency noise (above 2KHz), they give a direct relative measure of the harmful noise - and a reading of 600 is quite high (the Stetzer meter pegs at 2000).
Prof Denis Henshaw (Univ of Bristol - Emeritus - Retired) makes a convincing argument that this noise, when imposed on the magnetic field, is far more dangerous (partly due to penetration) and responsible for certain cancers (childhood leukemia, brain cancers, etc) at elevated rates (I'll add aggravated blood sugar/insulin resistance). This means that a home that has a wiring error (such as crossed ground/neutrals)
and high grid noise - is particularly dangerous [see earlier posts in this thread.]
So to say that 600mv is harmless by comparison with the 120V main is to entirely misunderstand the mechanism of damage.
LQB and All,
I appologize re; length of this post.
You did not run me off. No, I've been hitting the books, reading the physics of how things work in bio-chemistry, and unlike you (first sentence on your home-page), I'm not married to a physicist, I'm not a physicist, nor do I play one on TV, however, my gal of 35 years has a Master's in engineering and she worked in SSME group (Space Shuttle Main Engine) for a Rockwell orbitor engine sub. In fact that's how I met her. We bumped into one and another literally in the hallway (incidentally she has MS) while I was doing an engineering job in an SSME facility. I had a contract (1985~86) to design and fabricate an SSME flight-mission engine performance data and scientific analysis system, in which I down-streamed from the NSTL (Nat'l Space Transportation Laboratory) orbitor contractor facility national microwave MASER data-network. Those Rocketdyne catz had engineered a gadget to measure the torque of the SSME (Space Shuttle Main Engine) turbo-pump shaft while turning!!! Yeah...pumping 220,000 lbs of hydrogen and oxygen/minute into the compactor while in flight....Hah hah yeah baybee! ...it was a kewl contract, but there was also a great big humongous phaat bummer in it too. I had just met three of the Challenger Astronauts who had flown down (via their T38s into the TAW in Van Nuys Ca), just to see my system. They expended the day with me. Mike Smith, Dick Scobee and Judy Resnick (in fact she gave me her astronaut Space Shuttle ballpark cap, which I still have). She was a really smart gal, and cute too...a Xerox engineer. And just a few weeks later, they were killed when the SRB 'O' ring burned through causing the orbitor to breakup. Although its hardly known, the orbitor was blownup by range safety, after the SRB knocked off the wing. They had to, as the orbitor had canted in the direction toward the mainland and it was spinning wildly. Imagine the orbitor crashing in your neighborhood, weighing 40 million pounds going 15,000 mph. But my telemetry system worked flawlessly. It was a mind blower.
<SIGH>
I apologize about the transgression from the subject.
I re-read all of the posts here...I should clarify a few things. For one thing, I'm a career electronics engineer. I've been doing electronics since I was a wee tenager or about 55 years. The astute here, looking for 'flags' to descredit me, probably will notice that my age in my profile does not add-up. I **NEVER** disclose my actual birthdate to prevent data-miners from identifying me via my posts throughout the InterNet.
Re; Dirty-Power subjects...as I mentioned above, my gal has MS, in fact, her youngest and oldest also have MS, while the middle one, doesn't and no one else in her family has it either, going back seven generations. Medical science does not know what causes the disease, what triggers its onset, and there is no known cure. However, unlike the 1800s, which saw the invention of penicillin, the cure for polio, and a whole slew of cures for other diseases that are no longer in the public mindset, there is no cure for AIDS, Herpes, syphillus, Multple-Scelerosis (MS), or the common cold, et cetera. However, there **ARE** therapies. For AIDS, there are four shots per month, and after insurance, each shot, costs $1200. For MS, there is no cure, but there is a therapy, and after insurance, four shots per month (Avonex, BetaSeron, CoPaxone, etc) cost $1200 per shot. What a coincidence? Each shot irregardless of the disease, costs ~$1200. No single shot cures.
And for the common cold? The FDA has approved a $40,000,000,000 candy lozenge industry. The cold cold doesn't kill very often, it just makes ya miserable, and frankly, the candy companies are making poop-loads of money! Why invent a cure for colds when ya make all that money selling flavored sugar candy?
In my household, my youngest, and my oldest, and my gal have MS, but the middle aged one, doesn't
Myself being an engineer I have been aware of the electro-smog matter for many years. In fact a good friend of mine (still) was the personal friend of and was a technician for Bob Beck. I also knew Bob. Bob Beck, an engineer was one of the first people to study, design and (intially he gave all of his gadget design information away to anyone interested, gratis...no money involved), and later, he manufactured electro-smog devices. He was also one of the first (if not the first?) to produce power-line filters. However, his filters actually worked well.
But to bluntly speak...I am genuinely interested in electro-smog/dirty-power type subjects, mainly because, I want to make gadgets that are safe for general public usage, and if I find engineered products that are not safe for general public usage, study the whys and the hows of the problem, and publish that information in industry trade journals to edify others to the problem. Engineers are family people, we are good guys. But, one thing I've learned over the years, especially in alternative science subjects, there seems to always be a great big pile of BS surrounding those subjects. And for many different reasons, a few including (like in the billion Dollar cold remedy industry), outright deceitfulness, fabrications, and cover-ups. I suspect that there are few coverups taking place in certain areas of Dirty-Power, but as usual, there is so much BS, its hard to see the actual problem. Almost seems to be by design.
As in the ET presence science, the so-called 'dirty-power', the vast majority of interested people are non-technical, and so there is much confusion, myths, misperceptions, merging of unrelated ideas and a few unscrupolous folks who are making quack-gadgets and promoting, just under the FDA legitimacy wire, erroneous information designed to sell their products. Its all...well...its generally a quagmire of chaos. What is real? What is authentic?
I came here to this forum, as I was tracking down (unrelated to dirty-power) promising info in support of an ET Presence lecture I'm writing for an upcoming conference to be hosted in San Francisco in late March. Perusing around, I just happened to see the post about EMF and the SMPS subject. As I've said before EMF is a subject that interests me, not to denegrate it as some here mis-presume, but to clarify the realities. Wave off the cloud of BS obscuring the authentic issues, hidden in the details of things that non-tech folks can't see well. Hell, I can't see well, and I'm a smart guy.
So, but I know from past experience, all of the above won't mean squat, because you'll like see my posts as being negative wrt your belief systems. Its not my intent. I'm just working the problems as I find them, and I'll post summary info regardng my findings. I would go into specific details but this website chatroom software does not support math symbology nor inline jpgs, so it'll have to be summary text briefs.
Re; Capacitive coupling, that's a dead-end, I've expended two weeks doing math-physics, it doesn't work. I've tried four different models, 1) using the school-room plans, and 2) the other three my living room. I also worked a theoretical thought-atmosphere model, based on a 10ft x 10ft x 10ft room, ideally in a zero EMF environment (such as might be found in the empty-quarter of the Arabian desert). The hypothetical room, wired using thinwall conduit (node 0) and three 12 ga AC power-wires (measured inductance at 10ft and acting as a single wire RF dipole, with common mode capacitance). One simple three wire circuit to a duplex socket, and one conduit/three wire cieling lamp fixture. Was unable to determine how the electrostatic charge capacitive could pass through the conduit to a Human torso that is electrically isolated from the AC circuit. Where is the dielectric material? The Human body+atmosphere? If so, where are the plates? And for the frequency of the dirty power, the capacitance value is SOO LARGE, if it did pass AC signal, it would be attenuated to below ELF frequencies. It just doesn't work. However, in my minature configurations and using my three axis magnetometer (Speak) for EMF, Intek E-Field meter for electric field, two HP8116 function generators (for dirty-power source synthesis) and my HP8568B spectrum analyzer (for broad-band frequency detection), I was unable to verify any coulombic charge transfer, while I was able to verify an E-field and EMF field coupling from the conduit to the center and to where a Human might be standing. As time permits, I'll do more testing regarding capacitive coupling, but its my opinion at this juncture that its a dead-end.
But in the above effort I made certain presumptions, and having re-read the posts here, I realize that I've been made some serious mistakes in reasoning. There is a problem, and to solve the problem, I must ask some questions. The question is, how does a remotely located electrical circuit, not directly and physically connected to a Human body, affect the biology?
1. what is the required minimum energy (can do work) level that will cause bio-compound-chemistry change?
2. what is the interface coupling?
some examples:
a. electric field
b. electro-magnetic
c. electro-static (coulombic) charge
d. thermal
e. radiative (photonic)
These are the primary questions that need be answered. Once we know the energy level, then we can back-track to a cause.
So any papers anyone knows of that describe the atomic physics and how they verified the levels, I'd be interested to know about.
Re; the GS meter. Working from a different direction, I've been working feverishly studying the Grahm-Stetzler Meter. I don't own one of these meters and no one has taken the cover off of one and photographed the insides or drawn a schematic of a production unit. I've been using the patent file schematic that is posted on the Stetzler website for the model data.
I've been studying the various subsections of the patent schematic and comparing the modeled information to the patent embodiment description to try to understand what it is that the GS meter discloses. I want to know EXACTLY the electrical function it serves. To accomplish this, I've been using the Berkeley University Spice3 modeling program and also, the Linear Technology LT SpiceIV program.
For the opamp, I'm using the Texas Instruments TL0x1 series OpAmp spice model. The Grahm patent spec's a TL081, but I'm using the family series TL071, there is a 3nanoAmpere/Hz slew difference between the two which is outside the test parameters....ie doesn't affect anything.
Its been interesting to see how the meter works. I've expended five days at 10hrs/day studying the meter. The hardest part is simulating the types of suspected power-line noise that the meter supposedly detects. Descriptions by folk using the meter don't seem to match what I'm seeing in the models. I suspect that the production GS meter is likely made VERY DIFFERENT from the patent schematic. That would explain the behavioral differences.
Using only the patent information, here is what I've determined so far:
1) GSPM (GS Patent Meter) is directly connected to the AC power-line.
2) GSPM does not measure POWER nor display power readings.
3) GSPM is a non-linear (input voltage-shape is not accurately amplified) expanded range-volt-meter.
4) GSPM divides the input voltage by 10, so that 115.07Vac becomes 11.507Vac input into the filter meter section.
5) GSPM pass-band filters ACV input 30Hz ~ 100Hz (attenuates) down by ~-10dB, I'll post graphs later
I am still studying the GSPM meter models, the GSPM circuit may actually perform as patent claims, however, production model may not in fact be the same as the patent embodiment. In any case, I'll post my study later, gotta take my gal right now to her finger-nail doctor, a monthly ritual.
plutronus
ET Investigator
