Experience with buying gold?

Neil

Jedi Council Member
FOTCM Member
Personally, I think these provide maximum liquidity _http://www.gainesvillecoins.com/products/168599/canadian-maplegram25-25-x-1-gram-gold-maple-leafs-in-assay.aspx

They're pure gold, they're government issued coins supposedly assayed at the sovereign mint, and they're small enough to be spent without feeling like you've got a wallet full of $100 or larger bills which become more or less unbreakable. There has been a lot of evidence gathered on the FOFOA blog that gold will be massively revalued, and if such a revaluation does take place, I think even 1/10th oz coins will be somewhat difficult to change. 1oz coins would only be spendable in certain special circumstances because they would be worth way too much. I think silver is a good bet too because it will function as a hedge against inflation at least, and it gives you some "small bills" to use which don't draw as much attention.

I like the government issued coins because they have maximum recognition and will probably command the best exchange rate in a barter situation.
 

Lindenlea

The Living Force
Re: Time to stock up?

Thorn said:
Hey after reading this article- http://www.sott.net/article/295696-Anticipating-financial-collapse-JP-Morgan-accumulating-largest-stockpile-of-silver-in-history

What struck me was the recent drop in both gold and silver prices, according to this site: https://www.bullionbypost.co.uk/ silver is selling at £10.3602 per troy ounce, which looks like the lowest it's been all week, bar friday. Gold has also come down. I don't know anything about buying precious metals, but wondered if this was an opportune time?

This could well be an opportune time for buying gold or silver in small sizes (i.e. 10gr to 1oz lots).

I wouldn't worry about how much these markets are going up or down, the whole financial system is being manipulated by the PTB to supress precious metals and keep the $US where they want it to be until they pull the plug, then currency could possibly be worthless (probably including bank accounts), having at least an alternative to get by during the mellee would help.

Of course having plenty of goods stored for yourself and barter would be the best position to be in, but after that why not PM's. As the financial Guru's keep saying "Diversify".
 

Atomas

Jedi
Interesting thread. I've been observing gold and silver markets for last several years and can say that if one invests in physical bullion then it's one of the greatest opportunities to start accumulating it. Forex or other paper gold/silver should not be an option if one want to put his/her money into safe place. There are always price fluctuations but look what such countries like Russia, China, India, etc. do - they are constantly increasing their holdings. All gold moves to East from West. I won't be surprised if gold, oil, raw materials, major world currencies will play its role in establishing new world currency after the current fiat system based on dollar colapse.
Going back to investment or I use the term of preserving purchase power one should think about bullion. I'm not talking about speculation activities but mid/long term investment in something hard which has, and most probably will have, its value.
 

MusicMan

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
A couple of months ago, we had people setting up stalls in our shopping centres to buy up 'old gold'. You could trade your gold jewellery for cash.
I don't know what the deal was, I don't have any gold. (I even lost my wedding ring..)
 

Lindenlea

The Living Force
MusicMan said:
A couple of months ago, we had people setting up stalls in our shopping centres to buy up 'old gold'. You could trade your gold jewellery for cash.
I don't know what the deal was, I don't have any gold. (I even lost my wedding ring..)

Those stalls have been around the Sydney shopping malls for a couple of years now, the rates they gave then were not that great. My advice would be if you have any PM jewellery, even broken pieces, hang on to it, it may come in handy in the near future.
 

Dirgni

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Lindenlea said:
MusicMan said:
A couple of months ago, we had people setting up stalls in our shopping centres to buy up 'old gold'. You could trade your gold jewellery for cash.
I don't know what the deal was, I don't have any gold. (I even lost my wedding ring..)

Those stalls have been around the Sydney shopping malls for a couple of years now, the rates they gave then were not that great. My advice would be if you have any PM jewellery, even broken pieces, hang on to it, it may come in handy in the near future.

Here in Germany there are similar shops for a couple of years now.

Fernando Ferfal Aguirre recommends in his book "The Modern Survival Manual: Surviving the Economic Collapse" to have "old gold" even broken pieces for bartering in shops. Argentine economy broke down and they could not reach their money or only a few when ATM was working. So maybe buying "old gold" is better than selling it now.

_http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Survival-Manual-Surviving-Economic/dp/9870563457/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1430909206&sr=8-1&keywords=Ferfal
 

Aeneas

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
I have followed the price of gold for some years and something has changed recently. It has usually been that the spot price for gold listed on a site like kitco for the price used when buying gold. So if you bought a Kruger rand 1 ounce gold, the bank would charge you about $20 more as their provision and for the mintage as they like to say. If you wanted to sell then you would normally get paid about $20 less. So you always would get less than the listing price when selling and pay more when buying.

That has changed in the last couple of weeks. One of the ways to suppress the price of physical gold has been by the invention of paper gold and there has been a 1 to 1 relation between the two. At the beginning of the lock-down the places to buy gold were closed except for a couple of the big banks as banks were allowed to stay open. Going to the bank in the middle of March, I asked about the situation and the guy behind the counter admitted that they had a real problem getting gold and were running out of sources from where to buy. Fast forward to the beginning of April and a couple of big online sellers (Switzerland), had written on demand only on their websites for most of their products without any prices. This has not been the case before as they have always had a full range of products and with prices given on everything.

Today I looked at one of these sites and noticed for the first time that they now pay a premium for anyone wishing to sell. That means that you will get in this case about $40 dollars more than the listing price if selling 1 ounce. So there is a disconnect between paper gold and physical gold and these dealers have enough confidence that the price will go higher, so much so that they are willing to pay a premium. If you want to buy an ounce of gold, you will now have to pay a premium of roughly $140. So yes, the market appears to be changing.

There was also this article yesterday:

At a time of weak economic growth and increased market volatility, analysts are getting more bullish on gold. According to Bank of America, the precious metal is headed 78 percent higher, to hit $3,000 per ounce in 18 months.
“As economic output contracts sharply, fiscal outlays surge, and central bank balance sheets double, fiat currencies could come under pressure. And investors will aim for gold,” the bank’s analysts said, adding that the US Federal Reserve has provided enough momentum to propel investment demand and prices higher.
They have warned that the Federal Reserve’s balance sheet as a percentage of GDP could rise 20 percent to 40 percent this year. They’ve also pointed out that the Fed “Can’t print gold.”
They said: “Beyond traditional gold supply and demand fundamentals, financial repression is back on an extraordinary scale. Rates in the US and most G10 economies will likely be at or below zero for a very long period of time as central banks attempt to push inflation back above their targets.”
[...]
 

BHelmet

Dagobah Resident
Market changing? I would say it is a reflection of the disconnect between physical gold and it's availability (reality) and paper gold (illusion) becoming more pronounced. Same way there are 22 million new unemployed in the USA but the stock market goes up. We are seeing a divergence between the reality on the ground and the "story". (which is starting to trigger some waking up) The physical gold market is more of a true market where supply and demand can somewhat play out. That is why you see those premiums going up. While the stock markets and bond markets are now totally rigged and propped up by the central bank(s).

They will try not to allow the system to collapse (and gold to soar) until "they" are ready and desire it to happen. Otherwise we would already have $3000-$5000 gold and a stock market less than half what it is right now. That is a guess on my part.

I think they want to be sure to choke out and destroy as much of small business and the middle class as they can. That might mean another 60 days of lockdown? Again, IDK - just conjecture on my part.

But there is always the possibility of another black swan event, whether it is real, or fake or of cosmic origin to change the time line.

We would also have much more inflation without the lockdown of business activity. Right now inflation is suppressed because money has no velocity - nobody is buying or selling much of anything. At some point we may get a Weimar type inflation. IDK. Maybe they are going to try to control the whole thing into an easy and soft landing into the new monetary system. All hail the Sun King.

The C's have said: A plan to mass reincarnate everybody into new "containers" more conducive to control and manipulation.

Wow - just think. And then when everybody "comes back", they can spin whatever history they want - fabricate any story they want to describe our history and generate a series of rationalization for why things are they way they are. Hmmph - to what degree has that already been done?
 

Abats

Jedi Master
FOTCM Member
I bought a few grams of gold a few years ago on the goldmoney website. They have felt the wind change in my opinion because they have instituted a new policy where you now have to pay since January of this year 10$ per month as storage fees ! I really didn't have much but because of these fees, my account is at zero I have no more gold. They sent an email in december to say that the conditions for holding gold on their site had changed but they didn't shout it out loud because I didn't see anything at all !
 

Mike

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Over the years of following gold and silver there have been many 'shocks' where the supply of physical mental is hard to get or totally sold out and the paper price didn't match the physical price due to the naked and unlimited short selling on the paper commodity exchanges that sets the universally accepted price. We are in one of those times where they diverge. It is my opinion that until the paper commodity exchanges are shut down or changed that gold and silver prices will be held in check even if they move up some. Basically, it seems the whole system would have to come apart for that to happen, but what we are just starting to experience in markets may deliver that. Who would have thought oil would have been crushed the way it has and some types of oil actually go into negative values earlier in the week. Unprecedented and historic things are happening. Eventually silver and gold should reflect that.

I can only imagine what is happening to the precious metals mining companies out there and availability of lending, etc could be a very real problem for them in terms of being able to mine. That could also affect supply of physical metal in the long term and put pressure on the paper markets at some point.

If you are looking to buy physical gold and silver you may have a window of lets say 6 months to a year to do so. I figure as longs as the economic and financial systems are in turmoil like right now (but are still intact), then it will be hard to get physical metal even with paying the very high premiums. If and when things settle down some and silver and gold prices are allowed to go up some but not a great deal, then we may see physical markets stabilize and physical metals again become available to buy. That is what has happened in the past. And that is probably the optimal time to buy, if you want to do so, since moving out into the next year or two the whole economic system and markets could come apart. And that is when you want to be holding the physical metal as insurance against such events.
 

foofighter

Jedi Council Member
You could use Kinesis, which has no storage fees and where you can actually earn a yield simply by holding. The yield comes from a proportion of the transaction fees, at 0.45%.
 

Abats

Jedi Master
FOTCM Member
You could use Kinesis, which has no storage fees and where you can actually earn a yield simply by holding. The yield comes from a proportion of the transaction fees, at 0.45%.

Thank you foofighter for this indication but this bad surprise served as a lesson to me and it seems to me much better to physically possess these metals, at least I will try to appropriate them according to the actuality. Mike's advice seems to me more judicious.
 

Ursus Minor

The Living Force
If you are looking to buy physical gold and silver you may have a window of lets say 6 months to a year to do so. I figure as longs as the economic and financial systems are in turmoil like right now (but are still intact), then it will be hard to get physical metal even with paying the very high premiums. If and when things settle down some and silver and gold prices are allowed to go up some but not a great deal, then we may see physical markets stabilize and physical metals again become available to buy. That is what has happened in the past. And that is probably the optimal time to buy, if you want to do so, since moving out into the next year or two the whole economic system and markets could come apart. And that is when you want to be holding the physical metal as insurance against such events.

Someone said:

Optimists are buying gold, pessimists are buying canned food.

Although I generally agree, I think the financial system has not reached real turmoil yet. Relying on a window of 6-12 months for still being able to acquire physical gold could get you into a situation with probably nothing left on the market and/or gold prices much higher than today. Governments may even put a "luxury tax" on buying (and selling)
the metal. I think the optimal time to buy was 2018-2019.
Currently in Europe the gold price is moving from one all-time high to the next. It's not actually a buyer's market anymore.

Being a bit of a pessimist I would rather recommend buying fine silver ounces at this time which may come in handy when there will be a bartering economy. If it has to be gold look out for small denominations.
 

foofighter

Jedi Council Member
What I like about Kinesis is not only there are no storage fees, but that the main source of wealth increase is not from price increase. I don’t care if the price goes up or down. The only thing that matters to me is whether people transact, so I can get yield, like the old days with bank account interests. Don’t get me wrong, I hold some physical too, some of it in GoldMoney even, but the majority of my PM investment is in Kinesis these days for these reasons.
 
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