External Considering and Good Manners

mabar

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Dakota said:
This summer I been working with some really "crazy" people. I wrote about it in the post: https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,39204.0.html
After the season I fought that I have learned some really good lessons. Now, I'm not sure. Then I fought that this people are vampires and it is better for me to stay away. But their behave is not unusual, my it is. I wanted to do everything regularly, through standard and etc. It is not matter am I professional or not, I have to adapt to survive or at least to have better surviving.
I have realized this when I start to work on this new job and realize that is not important what is my story what I have experienced on my last job, because people think that I'm not obedient, that I cannot suffer "little bit".This is not "my" world and I want to leave this as soon as I can (even that is STS thinking - wishing), I need to adopt to them, not be mad or something else because they behave STS.
Thanks for the link, I just read it -your first post, though- I find their behaviour, very usual, I had/had been/still have too, encounters with that kind of people, even family members that had change my perspective about them, yes, many are vampires like, and is better for the sake of our mind to saty away, but sometimes, one/me cannot do it physically, but once I begun to learn the about the Work, one thing that had help me a lot is to remember that the others do not do it, work with themselves as I am in that process, they do not want, do not know, are not intersted etc, and when I feel uncomfortable, angry, hurt, I so remember about it, and it helps, because things/situations are being placed in another perspective, and had helped me and others, mostly close ones, like family/friends/employees, to express it, that way assumptions/misunderstandings become comprehension instead of "going to the unresolved issues that are filling whatever size glass, that later become a bigger emotional problem, and I am giving myself the opportunity to say it, because I thought I was not allowed and being angry came from it.

The one "cannot suffer a bit", I related to "tolerance to frustration" and almost everyday it persues me too, and in many times, is when I am struggling with my otherself, something is to learn there, and, I suppose that involves other aspect in which what kind of experiences, society, countries, we choose to came here to learn -how unfortunate is that I can reconcile my set of learning's, that's another struggle , and yes, sometimes is frustrating.

Dakota said:
Thank you for sharing your opinion about this. For me, this one will be so hard. I used to be Christian. Now I despise the Church. But they run good business (at least from STS view and for short time). I didn't think about this for years and I just realized how much anger I have because of their fraud. :shock:

About funeral's: My mother has died when I was 18 years old. Even then that was just a charade for me. In so complex Universe someone found funeral, putting the body in the hole, like something important and that has higher purpose . For me that is like spitting in the "face of Universe". I know that people need some form of saying good bye, but I have never felt that my mother is really gone from me. She is in me, with me. Or maybe I'm just hate funerals because I still didn't deal with that pain. I don't know, will see.
I am sorry, I understand better why is so hard to you, it sure be difficult. ... I think is good to have you mom with you, perhaps/I hope one day you will be ready to deal with that pain, if that is the case.

I think I understand your point of view, in this latest C's session that talks about aligning to a certain group of people, I do began years ago to to not get identify with the people that went to church, from my point of view there were a bunch of hypocrites, and with the Work I begun to see myself as hypocrite as them ... along with other many other issues.
 

sToRmR1dR

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Hello Keit

In my specific case I went through a period of despising the fact of being a woman and wanting to spend time only with boys, thinking that only they understand me. I was a tomboy in childhood, and even after that was never "ladylike" and jeans was my usual wear. But then, I was also extremely traumatized and also extremely angry. Angry toward the universe. and so probably one of the ways to deal with this anger and pain was to reject the very thing that in the end turned out to be healing. I also was like a rebellious and opinionated teenager (well into my 20's by then), refusing to play "by the rules" and not keeping my mouth shut, and as a result creating a lot of problems, primarily for myself.
Through the work on self helping others in their pain and anger,without prejudice,it gives you experience in learning to accept your pain and anger,as part of you in the process of healing.
 

Dakota

Jedi Council Member
Keit said:
Bottom line is, after a long process I've reached a point where I could be a "team player" to a degree on a daily job and without causing problems, and still maintain my own personal and unique view on things. :) They just didn't know about it for the most part. ;) But this is when I felt that I was beginning to mature. And the road is still long, actually.

On one hand it sounds counter intuitive (especially to an immature teenage mind) that self-discipline provides more freedom, but that exactly what happens. Don't know if you heard about it, but there is a saying about training horses, that they should be "broken" first. Meaning, that in order to utilize all the potential, the wild part should be tamed. Not because it is bad, but because only chaos comes from uncontrolled running horses.
Dear Keit,
can you please tell me which tools did you use that helped you to overcome issues in the past?

I have just recently found out how is good to not to be in the center of my world and others attention. I found it very exculpatory. Most of the time I'm silent and just listen to others. But still part of me thinks that people will found out this behaviour like I'm weak and have nothing to say.

And if this is not to much intimate question, can you please tell me how you express yourself like a woman if you do that?
 

Dakota

Jedi Council Member
Windmill knight said:
I think funerals are mostly a social event designed to help the circle of family and friends get used to the fact that one of them is no longer there. I understand that you say that it may be meaningless for you, and I think it is ok if you feel that way. But because it has meaning for a lot of people we care about, then it becomes meaningful to us too (indirectly), and we can still take part in the event with genuine respect for it. Isn't that what external consideration is about? We recognize that other people are different from us, so we adapt to what is important to them, because they are important to us.
Exactly, and that is the reason why I have spoke about it so openly even I know that my feelings and believes are not right. I knew that I will get different point of view, and that will help me to change my point of view. So, thank you for your feedback, it helps me among the others opinion, to understand better why is good for me and my family to attend to some social events, funerals, weddings even I found this hypocritical.
 

Dakota

Jedi Council Member
mabar said:
The one "cannot suffer a bit", I related to "tolerance to frustration" and almost everyday it persues me too, and in many times, is when I am struggling with my otherself, something is to learn there, and, I suppose that involves other aspect in which what kind of experiences, society, countries, we choose to came here to learn -how unfortunate is that I can reconcile my set of learning's, that's another struggle , and yes, sometimes is frustrating.
I was wondering, many times, did you (on forum) ever try to found out is it possible that someone chose of country, or region of some country is related with lessons that he have to learn?
 

Luks

Dagobah Resident
FOTCM Member
If I remember correctly once time it was discussing in context to G.'s work and was said that nations have souls. It's possible to specify national characteristics also. Probably soul "take it into account" while scans for suitable body to incarnate.
 

Windmill knight

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Dakota said:
I have just recently found out how is good to not to be in the center of my world and others attention. I found it very exculpatory. Most of the time I'm silent and just listen to others. But still part of me thinks that people will found out this behaviour like I'm weak and have nothing to say.
I think it's a good idea to not make yourself the absolute center of your life, and instead to balance it by giving more importance to others, or to your values and ideals. And while the way you interact with other people would naturally change if you stop being 'self-centered', I don't think that translates into being silent most time. You can still have active dialogues with people in which information flows both ways. Maybe try to think of it like this: You are not the center of everything; everyone is the center, and that includes you. It's about 'us', not 'me'. And you do have a place in 'us'.
 

mabar

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Dakota said:
mabar said:
The one "cannot suffer a bit", I related to "tolerance to frustration" and almost everyday it persues me too, and in many times, is when I am struggling with my otherself, something is to learn there, and, I suppose that involves other aspect in which what kind of experiences, society, countries, we choose to came here to learn -how unfortunate is that I can reconcile my set of learning's, that's another struggle , and yes, sometimes is frustrating.
I was wondering, many times, did you (on forum) ever try to found out is it possible that someone chose of country, or region of some country is related with lessons that he have to learn?
Well, in my case, at ever passing day I am more convinced that the set of mine lessons are quite related to the country where I live/dwell ... although, I struggle with that kind of thinking comes from time to time, because ... yes, the desire to live in a better conditions related to a whatever country do not leave, but ...I think that one/me cannot escape genetics and karma, until that certain circle is closed. - Is this what are you asking?
 

Dakota

Jedi Council Member
mabar said:
Well, in my case, at ever passing day I am more convinced that the set of mine lessons are quite related to the country where I live/dwell ... although, I struggle with that kind of thinking comes from time to time, because ... yes, the desire to live in a better conditions related to a whatever country do not leave, but ...I think that one/me cannot escape genetics and karma, until that certain circle is closed. - Is this what are you asking?
Yes, that is what I mean but this is also (thank you lux):
lux said:
If I remember correctly once time it was discussing in context to G.'s work and was said that nations have souls. It's possible to specify national characteristics also. Probably soul "take it into account" while scans for suitable body to incarnate.
Maybe this could be good topic to discuss if you already didn't discuss.
 

Dakota

Jedi Council Member
Windmill knight said:
Dakota said:
I have just recently found out how is good to not to be in the center of my world and others attention. I found it very exculpatory. Most of the time I'm silent and just listen to others. But still part of me thinks that people will found out this behaviour like I'm weak and have nothing to say.
I think it's a good idea to not make yourself the absolute center of your life, and instead to balance it by giving more importance to others, or to your values and ideals. And while the way you interact with other people would naturally change if you stop being 'self-centered', I don't think that translates into being silent most time. You can still have active dialogues with people in which information flows both ways. Maybe try to think of it like this: You are not the center of everything; everyone is the center, and that includes you. It's about 'us', not 'me'. And you do have a place in 'us'.
Very nice thinking, I will have this in my mind. Sounds very logical and practical.
 

Cantera

The Force is Strong With This One
Thanks very much for the thread. I recently bought 'Life is religion' and after reading the chapter that covers External Consideration I immediately thought about manners and how I could act in more polite ways to make others feel at ease around me. For a while I thought that maybe that wasn't the right direction, and after reading this thread I now know I'm on a good track. :)

Dakota said:
Two years ago I have move to live in small village. Working only through the season, and in the winter time I don't see anyone else but my friend with whom I living and they parents. For me that is enough. I don't like other people, not anymore. I don't attend on any social activities, just working sometime if someone ask me to.
Isn't that being a bit too closed? I kind of understand what you feel, as I am very reserved myself and often don't quite feel the need to spend so much time 'hanging out' with anyone. However, maybe participating in those social activities can help you learn more about yourself and even give you a place to learn how to be more considerate towards others. Stepping out of our comfort zone may help in seeing things in ourselves we don't normally notice.
 

Dakota

Jedi Council Member
Cantera said:
Thanks very much for the thread. I recently bought 'Life is religion' and after reading the chapter that covers External Consideration I immediately thought about manners and how I could act in more polite ways to make others feel at ease around me. For a while I thought that maybe that wasn't the right direction, and after reading this thread I now know I'm on a good track. :)

Dakota said:
Two years ago I have move to live in small village. Working only through the season, and in the winter time I don't see anyone else but my friend with whom I living and they parents. For me that is enough. I don't like other people, not anymore. I don't attend on any social activities, just working sometime if someone ask me to.
Isn't that being a bit too closed? I kind of understand what you feel, as I am very reserved myself and often don't quite feel the need to spend so much time 'hanging out' with anyone. However, maybe participating in those social activities can help you learn more about yourself and even give you a place to learn how to be more considerate towards others. Stepping out of our comfort zone may help in seeing things in ourselves we don't normally notice.
Yes, I agree with you, even I don't like the idea (probably because of my bad experience and programs).
 

T.C.

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Dakota said:
Cantera said:
Thanks very much for the thread. I recently bought 'Life is religion' and after reading the chapter that covers External Consideration I immediately thought about manners and how I could act in more polite ways to make others feel at ease around me. For a while I thought that maybe that wasn't the right direction, and after reading this thread I now know I'm on a good track. :)

Dakota said:
Two years ago I have move to live in small village. Working only through the season, and in the winter time I don't see anyone else but my friend with whom I living and they parents. For me that is enough. I don't like other people, not anymore. I don't attend on any social activities, just working sometime if someone ask me to.
Isn't that being a bit too closed? I kind of understand what you feel, as I am very reserved myself and often don't quite feel the need to spend so much time 'hanging out' with anyone. However, maybe participating in those social activities can help you learn more about yourself and even give you a place to learn how to be more considerate towards others. Stepping out of our comfort zone may help in seeing things in ourselves we don't normally notice.
Yes, I agree with you, even I don't like the idea (probably because of my bad experience and programs).
Yes, it's not about 'not liking' other people, passing a moralising judgement. External Consideration is about understanding other people. The former is self-focused and self-referencing, and the latter is other-focused and aiming at objectivity.

If you can come to a better understanding of why people are the way they are and act the way they act, then that gives you the Free Will to choose if/how you interact with them.
 

Dakota

Jedi Council Member
T.C. said:
Dakota said:
Cantera said:
Thanks very much for the thread. I recently bought 'Life is religion' and after reading the chapter that covers External Consideration I immediately thought about manners and how I could act in more polite ways to make others feel at ease around me. For a while I thought that maybe that wasn't the right direction, and after reading this thread I now know I'm on a good track. :)

Dakota said:
Two years ago I have move to live in small village. Working only through the season, and in the winter time I don't see anyone else but my friend with whom I living and they parents. For me that is enough. I don't like other people, not anymore. I don't attend on any social activities, just working sometime if someone ask me to.
Isn't that being a bit too closed? I kind of understand what you feel, as I am very reserved myself and often don't quite feel the need to spend so much time 'hanging out' with anyone. However, maybe participating in those social activities can help you learn more about yourself and even give you a place to learn how to be more considerate towards others. Stepping out of our comfort zone may help in seeing things in ourselves we don't normally notice.
Yes, I agree with you, even I don't like the idea (probably because of my bad experience and programs).
Yes, it's not about 'not liking' other people, passing a moralising judgement. External Consideration is about understanding other people. The former is self-focused and self-referencing, and the latter is other-focused and aiming at objectivity.

If you can come to a better understanding of why people are the way they are and act the way they act, then that gives you the Free Will to choose if/how you interact with them.
Right now I feel that I need to capture my self in the cave (my home) and building my strength with diet, meditation and reading. It's winter knocking on our door, great time to spend days in solitude or at least sourand ed with my small family. But if people call me in any social event I will (not gladly) answer it.
 
Yeah, thanks very much for this thread! :) One of the best (if not the best) delineations of this idea (E. C.) that I have seen, at least as far as the few opening posts go.

May I just remind here that external considering, in theory at least, hinges on self-remembering. Copying external considering as in good manners may help but that, too, should be used as a stimulus to become more aware of others, not just seem like you are. A result of this practice, imo, is that you start relating to people from your essence, i.e., imho, from the correctly functioning emotional center.

As for disregarding good manners for the name of the Work, there is a saying "You can do a wrong thing for the right reason, or the right thing for the wrong reason." The latter is preferable to the former.
 
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