Fermented foods

One way to seal a fermentation vessel is to pour a layer of oil over the top. It keeps pressure from building up and oxygen from seeping in. Make sure all the contents are below the surface of the oil.

There is a lot of information, and tidbits here and there on fermentation. Since it is a long process I recommend to take the time it takes to make your first batch to scour the numerous popular blogs on the subject.
 
monotonic said:
One way to seal a fermentation vessel is to pour a layer of oil over the top. It keeps pressure from building up and oxygen from seeping in. Make sure all the contents are below the surface of the oil.

There is a lot of information, and tidbits here and there on fermentation. Since it is a long process I recommend to take the time it takes to make your first batch to scour the numerous popular blogs on the subject.

My parents would often use wax to seal jars of jam, etc as well. Though the spare tallow I have on-hand should suffice just as well :)
 
whitecoast said:
monotonic said:
One way to seal a fermentation vessel is to pour a layer of oil over the top. It keeps pressure from building up and oxygen from seeping in. Make sure all the contents are below the surface of the oil.

There is a lot of information, and tidbits here and there on fermentation. Since it is a long process I recommend to take the time it takes to make your first batch to scour the numerous popular blogs on the subject.

My parents would often use wax to seal jars of jam, etc as well. Though the spare tallow I have on-hand should suffice just as well :)

Won't the fats corrupt the fermentation? It seems like there would be more chance of uncontrolled rot with this method (?)
 
There was a sauerkraut experiment on one of the blogs testing various sealing methods. Almost all of them molded but the one with olive oil over the top was fine IIRC. I couldn't find the blog.
 
Has anybody tried making kvass? I'm wondering if it's better to use a starter or if you don't have to.

One of the advantages of home-fermenting with "native" bacteria is that you literally populate your gut with your immediate environment, and communicate with it via this process, cultivating your own personal bacteria "garden." Another advantage of having a little fermented food every day.

For a lot of us antibiotics probably wiped out the healthy diversity of our little garden plot (that first emerged from breastfeeding, putting stuff in our mouths as babies), after we were on all those courses for ear infections or strep throat as kids. Follow that with years of white bread, cola and corn flakes, and the gut is the garden equivalent of a weedy parking lot.

I have a feeling we underestimate the degree that the microbial world interacts with us and affects/protects our health and behavior--us measly humans are vastly outnumbered. There's up to 6 pounds of bacteria in the average human body; the average brain only weighs 3 pounds, hmm...
 
Weller said:
Has anybody tried making kvass? I'm wondering if it's better to use a starter or if you don't have to.

I used to make kvass years ago. I'd cut up a beet, put it in a mason jar and fill the rest with water. What I would usually do is open a probiotic capsule and add just a little bit of that to the liquid to be used as a starter. Sally Fallon, in Nourishing Traditions, uses whey from strained yogurt as a starter, but since we're avoiding dairy on this diet, that's not a good idea. You may not need a starter, but in that case I wouldn't peel the beets first.

One of the advantages of home-fermenting with "native" bacteria is that you literally populate your gut with your immediate environment, and communicate with it via this process, cultivating your own personal bacteria "garden." Another advantage of having a little fermented food every day.

Fermenting without a starter is often referred to as "wild fermentation" since you're relying on the wild bacteria from the environment. I think that's a good point about populating your gut with what surrounds you as a sort of communication between you and your surroundings. I think this is why some people experience digestive issues (either constipation of diarrhea) when travelling - their system is not well adjusted to the native bacterial environment where they've travelled to and gets a bit of a shock.

ADDED: I've got a big fermentation crock filled with 3 shredded cabbages. Should be a nice large batch of kraut in a few weeks! Now I play the waiting game... In the meantime, I've been buying unpasteurized sauerkraut from the health food store I work at, and the experiment is going well. Nothing in particular to report yet, but I am enjoying it. Sauerkraut is great for mopping up fat off the plate, something I've been looking for :)
 
I found a tip online about making yogurt. Yogurt is not applicable here, but the tip is. The best yogurt is made from starter made from ant eggs or barring that, anthill dirt. They were right! If you are looking for "local" starters for ferments, I think this is a good idea. It was suggested different types of ants would have different types of bacteria. For instance wood ants would harbor bacteria helpful in breaking down cellulose and all the things we can't digest.

You would think the vegetables, if organic and local, would have all the strains necessary for fermentation though.

On the subject, I read that using a starter for sauerkraut will cause the ferment to skip the first step, since the starter has already been through multiple stages of fermentation. I don't remember the details but supposedly, sauerkraut made without a starter using organic cabbage already containing the necessary strains, turns out the best.

Perhaps a little anthill dirt thrown in (or strain the brine through ant eggs) would make a better starter for sauerkraut, and contribute to probiotic diversity.

Ant eggs can be collected by taking a tarp and folding up the edges, sitting it down and shoveling the middle of an anthill onto it. The ants will grab the eggs and hide them between the folds of the tarp, then leave. Then you can unfold it and collect the eggs.

Before doing any adventurous experiments be sure to have read on the subject of keeping a proper anaerobic environment and keeping the ferment from molding or otherwise rotting. There is a lot of nice hints online, but not all in one place.
 
Jonathan said:
whitecoast said:
monotonic said:
One way to seal a fermentation vessel is to pour a layer of oil over the top. It keeps pressure from building up and oxygen from seeping in. Make sure all the contents are below the surface of the oil.

There is a lot of information, and tidbits here and there on fermentation. Since it is a long process I recommend to take the time it takes to make your first batch to scour the numerous popular blogs on the subject.

My parents would often use wax to seal jars of jam, etc as well. Though the spare tallow I have on-hand should suffice just as well :)

Won't the fats corrupt the fermentation? It seems like there would be more chance of uncontrolled rot with this method (?)

Entirely possible, I have yet to try it out yet.
 
monotonic said:
I found a tip online about making yogurt. Yogurt is not applicable here, but the tip is. The best yogurt is made from starter made from ant eggs or barring that, anthill dirt. They were right! If you are looking for "local" starters for ferments, I think this is a good idea. It was suggested different types of ants would have different types of bacteria. For instance wood ants would harbor bacteria helpful in breaking down cellulose and all the things we can't digest.

You would think the vegetables, if organic and local, would have all the strains necessary for fermentation though.

On the subject, I read that using a starter for sauerkraut will cause the ferment to skip the first step, since the starter has already been through multiple stages of fermentation. I don't remember the details but supposedly, sauerkraut made without a starter using organic cabbage already containing the necessary strains, turns out the best.

Perhaps a little anthill dirt thrown in (or strain the brine through ant eggs) would make a better starter for sauerkraut, and contribute to probiotic diversity.

Ant eggs can be collected by taking a tarp and folding up the edges, sitting it down and shoveling the middle of an anthill onto it. The ants will grab the eggs and hide them between the folds of the tarp, then leave. Then you can unfold it and collect the eggs.

Before doing any adventurous experiments be sure to have read on the subject of keeping a proper anaerobic environment and keeping the ferment from molding or otherwise rotting. There is a lot of nice hints online, but not all in one place.

I dunno, this strikes me as entirely unnecessary. Considering the fact that it's quite easy to make sauerkraut and other ferments without resorting to something so dubious as putting ant eggs or ant hill dirt in your food, I don't really see why anyone would bother with this questionable (and kinda gross) step.

Just my 2 cents.
 
dugdeep said:
I dunno, this strikes me as entirely unnecessary. Considering the fact that it's quite easy to make sauerkraut and other ferments without resorting to something so dubious as putting ant eggs or ant hill dirt in your food, I don't really see why anyone would bother with this questionable (and kinda gross) step.

Just my 2 cents.

I agree. I can see a possible reason for fermenting things yourself, rather than buying them pre-fermented (as I am doing right now) in that when you do it yourself, using the the bacteria in your environment, those bacteria are locally adapted. The bacteria in your gut aren't just fermenting -- they are trading DNA. When you bring in new bacteria, they provide new DNA. And bacteria evolve much faster than we do.

I don't know if this is actually important or not, but I have a feeling that it could have something to do with why we need all those bacteria.
 
For the reasons you've given, I would think about trying it at least once as an experiment. If a sauerkraut really needs a starter, then it may be better than using part of the previous batch, to avoid skipping phases of fermentation.
 
monotonic said:
For the reasons you've given, I would think about trying it at least once as an experiment. If a sauerkraut really needs a starter, then it may be better than using part of the previous batch, to avoid skipping phases of fermentation.

The sauerkraut is actually a "starter" for your own gut fermentation. Of course that is already going, but evidently there is always room to start some more. Your insides need "messages" from the outside. Deep Nutrition talked about food as a language, and how it could influence the epigenome. This is a way to influence the DNA of your microbiome.
 
monotonic said:
For the reasons you've given, I would think about trying it at least once as an experiment. If a sauerkraut really needs a starter, then it may be better than using part of the previous batch, to avoid skipping phases of fermentation.

Sauerkraut doesn't need a starter. There are enough bacteria present on the grown cabbages themselves to start the fermentation process, as long as you get organic. Honestly, I can't think of one advantage to using ant dirt and eggs over the bacteria present on the cabbages already, but I can think of many disadvantages - sanitation being the primary one.

Also, I'm wondering what you mean by "skipping phases of fermentation". Maybe you could explain that?
 
monotonic said:
On the subject, I read that using a starter for sauerkraut will cause the ferment to skip the first step, since the starter has already been through multiple stages of fermentation. I don't remember the details but supposedly, sauerkraut made without a starter using organic cabbage already containing the necessary strains, turns out the best.

I did a search and found this:

http://ddr.nal.usda.gov/bitstream/10113/16151/1/IND43925843.pdf

Unfortunately my computer crashed and I lost all my bookmarks, so I don't have my sources. However what I remember is that the Mesenteroides strain is what flourishes first, producing CO2, then dies off and fermentation moves on to other phases. Therefore a finished sauerkraut won't have the same strains, or at least not in the same balance, as fresh cabbage starts off with. When this starter is introduced to a beginning cabbage ferment, the lactobacilli quicly take over and so the first step is skipped and no or little CO2 is produced. The CO2 is one of the things that protects against aerobic bacteria. I may not remember this correctly.
 
monotonic said:
monotonic said:
On the subject, I read that using a starter for sauerkraut will cause the ferment to skip the first step, since the starter has already been through multiple stages of fermentation. I don't remember the details but supposedly, sauerkraut made without a starter using organic cabbage already containing the necessary strains, turns out the best.

I did a search and found this:

http://ddr.nal.usda.gov/bitstream/10113/16151/1/IND43925843.pdf

Unfortunately my computer crashed and I lost all my bookmarks, so I don't have my sources. However what I remember is that the Mesenteroides strain is what flourishes first, producing CO2, then dies off and fermentation moves on to other phases. Therefore a finished sauerkraut won't have the same strains, or at least not in the same balance, as fresh cabbage starts off with. When this starter is introduced to a beginning cabbage ferment, the lactobacilli quicly take over and so the first step is skipped and no or little CO2 is produced. The CO2 is one of the things that protects against aerobic bacteria. I may not remember this correctly.

Interesting study, thanks for posting. But remember that they're talking about commercial sauerkraut preparations and they're interested in 1) lowering the amount of salt used in the preparation and 2) decreasing the amount of brine discarded at the end. Home fermenters aren't discarding brine (they're usually drinking it) and, being ketogenic, we're not interested in lowering salt consumption.

I do get what you're saying, that if by using a starter you might not get as much CO2 out of the mesenteroides, but I honestly think that's not such a big deal. People have been home fermenting with starter cultures for generations, going way back, and this doesn't seem to have caused much of an issue. I suspect you'll still get a fair amount of CO2 production since it takes time for the lactobacillus to take over, needing more of an acidic environment to thrive. There is a lot of gas given off throughout fermentation, even with the use of starters (hence why mason jars need to be "burped" periodically).

I certainly don't think this is enough of an issue to start shovelling ant dirt into your sauerkraut, but maybe that's just me :)
 

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