Fermented foods

[LQB]

I'm putting this post here too as Megan suggested in the KD thread:

Quote from: LQB on Today at 09:09:11 AM

Here is an interesting 100-pager pdf on fermented meat production from OSU (early '90s) that goes through all the bacteria involved, starter cultures, safety, taste, aroma, meats, additives, pH, pathogens, etc. This looks like a much safer way to go. :)

https://kb.osu.edu/dspace/bitstream/handle/1811/45275/Fermented%20product%20Knowledge%20bank.pdf?sequence=1


You might consider putting this information in the Fermented Foods topic. I find this very interesting, but it might get buried here in KD.

 

[clearmiddle]

Thanks! I really want to take time to dig deeper into this. I can see that cooking and fermentation may be complementary methods through which humans pre-digest their food, in order to enable us to be what we are. It hasn't made sense that this would only apply to plants.

I have seen the "yuck factor" that leads many of us to avoid organ meats, even though it is vital to consume them. This sounds like another, similar, situation. Maybe we should be taking a closer look at where that "yuck factor" comes from?

 

[beetlemaniac]

I had my first serving of homemade sauerkraut with dinner last night. This morning as predicted, I had a bowel movement. I also had some slight flu-like symptoms of phlegm build up and sneezing upon waking up. Maybe the different strains of gut bacteria need time to stabilise to a create a more healthy enteric environment.

It definitely tasted good though! Caraway seeds and garlic lends a nice flavor to the kraut. It seems that due to the relatively more hot climate where I live in the kraut tends to ferment much faster (I'm starting eating mine at the 6th day), but the downside of that may be that certain (earlier) phases of fermentation involving different bacteria are skipped. That's what I understood from the bit of reading I did. I have another small batch still fermenting, untouched. Will see how that one comes out a little later. I think that during preparation I think it's really beneficial to only wash the cabbage lightly or not at all to keep whatever organisms that were there from the soil. Also it's good to massage it really well with the salt, until the brine from the cabbage juices covers the cabbage itself. I think this really ensures that the bacteria get a good head start at digesting the cabbage since you've broken up all the hard cell walls for them. Hope this helps, if ever you're thinking of doing your own!

 

[LQB]

I'm putting this post here too as Megan suggested in the KD thread:

Quote from: LQB on Today at 09:09:11 AM

Here is an interesting 100-pager pdf on fermented meat production from OSU (early '90s) that goes through all the bacteria involved, starter cultures, safety, taste, aroma, meats, additives, pH, pathogens, etc. This looks like a much safer way to go. :)

https://kb.osu.edu/dspace/bitstream/handle/1811/45275/Fermented%20product%20Knowledge%20bank.pdf?sequence=1


You might consider putting this information in the Fermented Foods topic. I find this very interesting, but it might get buried here in KD.

There is also a 600 page tome titled Handbook of Fermented Meat and Poultry that is listed on amazon for over $200!

http://www.amazon.com/Handbook-Fermented-Poultry-Fidel-Toldr/dp/0813814774/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1360412242&sr=1-1&keywords=meat+fermentation

But if you join scribd for a month ($9), then you can download it for free. I downloaded it but haven't looked at it yet.

 

[dugdeep]

I'm putting this post here too as Megan suggested in the KD thread:

Quote from: LQB on Today at 09:09:11 AM

Here is an interesting 100-pager pdf on fermented meat production from OSU (early '90s) that goes through all the bacteria involved, starter cultures, safety, taste, aroma, meats, additives, pH, pathogens, etc. This looks like a much safer way to go. :)

https://kb.osu.edu/dspace/bitstream/handle/1811/45275/Fermented%20product%20Knowledge%20bank.pdf?sequence=1


You might consider putting this information in the Fermented Foods topic. I find this very interesting, but it might get buried here in KD.

There is also a 600 page tome titled Handbook of Fermented Meat and Poultry that is listed on amazon for over $200!

http://www.amazon.com/Handbook-Fermented-Poultry-Fidel-Toldr/dp/0813814774/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1360412242&sr=1-1&keywords=meat+fermentation

But if you join scribd for a month ($9), then you can download it for free. I downloaded it but haven't looked at it yet.

Fermented poultry Geez, that's something I'd have some trepidation about trying. I'd be really curious what they have to say about that, LQB. Let us know if there's anything interesting there :)

 

[dugdeep]

I had my first serving of homemade sauerkraut with dinner last night. This morning as predicted, I had a bowel movement. I also had some slight flu-like symptoms of phlegm build up and sneezing upon waking up. Maybe the different strains of gut bacteria need time to stabilise to a create a more healthy enteric environment.

It definitely tasted good though! Caraway seeds and garlic lends a nice flavor to the kraut. It seems that due to the relatively more hot climate where I live in the kraut tends to ferment much faster (I'm starting eating mine at the 6th day), but the downside of that may be that certain (earlier) phases of fermentation involving different bacteria are skipped. That's what I understood from the bit of reading I did. I have another small batch still fermenting, untouched. Will see how that one comes out a little later. I think that during preparation I think it's really beneficial to only wash the cabbage lightly or not at all to keep whatever organisms that were there from the soil. Also it's good to massage it really well with the salt, until the brine from the cabbage juices covers the cabbage itself. I think this really ensures that the bacteria get a good head start at digesting the cabbage since you've broken up all the hard cell walls for them. Hope this helps, if ever you're thinking of doing your own!

6 days seems like a very short fermentation period, but maybe you're right about the warmer environment making things go faster. I've got two batches going in fermentation crocks right now (one is borrowed) and everything I've read says you want to leave it for 4-6 weeks, and you want to leave it undisturbed for 2 weeks so as not to disturb the fermentation environment. My first batch just passed the 2 week mark. I opened it up and it seems to be going nicely. It's quite tasty, but still obviously needs more time.

This link may have already been posted in this thread, but it's worth posting again as it's highly informative: http://www.nourishingtreasures.com/index.php/2012/05/15/the-science-behind-sauerkraut-fermentation/

 

[LQB]

Fermented poultry Geez, that's something I'd have some trepidation about trying. I'd be really curious what they have to say about that, LQB. Let us know if there's anything interesting there :)

Yeah - me too - I'd have the same reservations about doing it with fish. The key must be in promoting the right strains of bacteria. I'm going to take a closer look because eating the fermented veggies is not a pleasant experience (taste-wise) for me.

 

[Gaby]

Just read this and thought it might add to the low carb venture with fermented foods:

_http://primaldocs.com/opinion/simple-strategies-to-buffer-blood-sugar/

Simple Strategies to Improve Blood Sugar Signaling

1. Use Lemon: The citric acid in lemon helps to buffer the release of blood sugar. Additionally, the anti-oxidants and trace minerals within lemon help to improve insulin signaling, boost liver function and stabilize blood sugar. Squeeze a lemon on as many foods as possible and drink it fresh squeezed in purified water.

2. Use Apple Cider Vinegar: Vinegar is very high in acetic acid. This acid has been shown to reduce the glycemic response of a typical carbohydrate based meal by 31%. Another study reduced a carbohydrate meal from a typical glycemic index of 100 to 64. Apple cider vinegar (ACV) also provides enzymes, probiotics and trace minerals that enhance blood sugar signaling. Use ACV on as many foods as possible.

3. Use Fermented Foods: This would include coconut kefir, sauerkraut, pickles, & kimchi. Raw, grass-fed fermented dairy such as yogurt, kefir, amasai, fermented whey & raw cheese. [yeah, not these ones though] These foods have a natural acid to slow the release of blood sugar and they provide enzymes, probiotics and other bioactive nutrients that enhance blood sugar signaling. Use a variety of different fermented foods every day.

4. Use Cinnamon: Cinnamon has been shown to reduce gastic emptying rate, improve insulin receptor sensitivity and inhibit enzymes that inactivate insulin receptors. Cinnamon is also an extremely powerful anti-oxidant potential that prevents inflammatory conditions that damage cell membranes and insulin receptors.

5. Whole Food Multi-Vitamin with Chromium: Whole food mutli-vitamins help the body by supplying tons of highly bioavailable trace minerals and B vitamins that are critical for healthy blood sugar balance. One such nutrient is chromium which increases the production and activates the glucose transport molecule GLUT-4.

Chromium activates GLUT-4 to shift its location from deep within the cell to a position on the cell membrane. This opens a window in the cell that allows glucose to flow into the cell through a concentration gradient where it can be metabolized for energy while lowering circulating blood sugar to stable levels.

 

[beetlemaniac]

I had my first serving of homemade sauerkraut with dinner last night. This morning as predicted, I had a bowel movement. I also had some slight flu-like symptoms of phlegm build up and sneezing upon waking up. Maybe the different strains of gut bacteria need time to stabilise to a create a more healthy enteric environment.

It definitely tasted good though! Caraway seeds and garlic lends a nice flavor to the kraut. It seems that due to the relatively more hot climate where I live in the kraut tends to ferment much faster (I'm starting eating mine at the 6th day), but the downside of that may be that certain (earlier) phases of fermentation involving different bacteria are skipped. That's what I understood from the bit of reading I did. I have another small batch still fermenting, untouched. Will see how that one comes out a little later. I think that during preparation I think it's really beneficial to only wash the cabbage lightly or not at all to keep whatever organisms that were there from the soil. Also it's good to massage it really well with the salt, until the brine from the cabbage juices covers the cabbage itself. I think this really ensures that the bacteria get a good head start at digesting the cabbage since you've broken up all the hard cell walls for them. Hope this helps, if ever you're thinking of doing your own!

6 days seems like a very short fermentation period, but maybe you're right about the warmer environment making things go faster. I've got two batches going in fermentation crocks right now (one is borrowed) and everything I've read says you want to leave it for 4-6 weeks, and you want to leave it undisturbed for 2 weeks so as not to disturb the fermentation environment. My first batch just passed the 2 week mark. I opened it up and it seems to be going nicely. It's quite tasty, but still obviously needs more time.

This link may have already been posted in this thread, but it's worth posting again as it's highly informative: http://www.nourishingtreasures.com/index.php/2012/05/15/the-science-behind-sauerkraut-fermentation/

Thanks for the link dugdeep, I was hunting for it just before I wrote the post and I just couldn't find it.

I definitely may have jumped the gun on the first batch. I think it's the fear of it going bad coming from "hygiene hysteria". I will leave the one still fermenting right now and see how it turns out. Also I'm using small mason jars and not a proper crock. Hope to source one out someday.

Thanks again for the link!

 

[dugdeep]

I had my first serving of homemade sauerkraut with dinner last night. This morning as predicted, I had a bowel movement. I also had some slight flu-like symptoms of phlegm build up and sneezing upon waking up. Maybe the different strains of gut bacteria need time to stabilise to a create a more healthy enteric environment.

It definitely tasted good though! Caraway seeds and garlic lends a nice flavor to the kraut. It seems that due to the relatively more hot climate where I live in the kraut tends to ferment much faster (I'm starting eating mine at the 6th day), but the downside of that may be that certain (earlier) phases of fermentation involving different bacteria are skipped. That's what I understood from the bit of reading I did. I have another small batch still fermenting, untouched. Will see how that one comes out a little later. I think that during preparation I think it's really beneficial to only wash the cabbage lightly or not at all to keep whatever organisms that were there from the soil. Also it's good to massage it really well with the salt, until the brine from the cabbage juices covers the cabbage itself. I think this really ensures that the bacteria get a good head start at digesting the cabbage since you've broken up all the hard cell walls for them. Hope this helps, if ever you're thinking of doing your own!

6 days seems like a very short fermentation period, but maybe you're right about the warmer environment making things go faster. I've got two batches going in fermentation crocks right now (one is borrowed) and everything I've read says you want to leave it for 4-6 weeks, and you want to leave it undisturbed for 2 weeks so as not to disturb the fermentation environment. My first batch just passed the 2 week mark. I opened it up and it seems to be going nicely. It's quite tasty, but still obviously needs more time.

This link may have already been posted in this thread, but it's worth posting again as it's highly informative: http://www.nourishingtreasures.com/index.php/2012/05/15/the-science-behind-sauerkraut-fermentation/

Thanks for the link dugdeep, I was hunting for it just before I wrote the post and I just couldn't find it.

I definitely may have jumped the gun on the first batch. I think it's the fear of it going bad coming from "hygiene hysteria". I will leave the one still fermenting right now and see how it turns out. Also I'm using small mason jars and not a proper crock. Hope to source one out someday.

Thanks again for the link!

No worries, beetlemaniac :)

According to the writer at the link above (Lea Harris), the jars often referred to as Fido jars will do the same sort of job as a fermentation crock. They're the jars that have a rubber gasket and a clamp. The rubber gasket allows gases to escape when the pressure builds up (so you don't have to "burp" it periodically like you do with mason jars), but it doesn't let any air it. This is the same effect the water seal on the fermentation crocks has - lets gases out to avoid too much pressure build-up, but no air can get in.

BTW, here's another post by Lea Harris where she talks about the length of time to ferment your kraut in order to maximize probiotic content - http://www.nourishingtreasures.com/index.php/2013/01/22/bustin-the-myth-of-the-3-day-kraut-p-s-dont-refrigerate-it-either/ Her whole site is actually very helpful :)

 

[mugatea]

I wished I looked for this thread before I made 8 jars of sauerkraut on Sunday. I found a recipe on net that said cover jars with cloth and leave for 3 days which is what I've done but after reading this thread it seems you want to prevent oxygen getting in. So is my sauerkraut gonna end up being put in the bin? Is it useless?

Jamie

 

[monotonic]

In the Sauerkraut Survivor links that I posted earlier in this thread, a number of fermenting jar techniques were tested. They even tested the probiotic content with a microscope. You can compare what you did to the examples given and judge for yourself how likely it is to mold. My favorite is the olive oil method.

Also, 3 days isn't enough to do anything useful. That way you just get salty cabbage. Here it really pays to look through all the links in this thread.

Furthermore, you might also want to do some research on the hormone and thyroid problems that can be caused by cabbage. Sauerkraut has helped many people as a probiotic, but unfortunately fermentation doesn't eliminate the substances that cause this.

 

[mugatea]

In the Sauerkraut Survivor links that I posted earlier in this thread, a number of fermenting jar techniques were tested. They even tested the probiotic content with a microscope. You can compare what you did to the examples given and judge for yourself how likely it is to mold. My favorite is the olive oil method.

Also, 3 days isn't enough to do anything useful. That way you just get salty cabbage. Here it really pays to look through all the links in this thread.

Furthermore, you might also want to do some research on the hormone and thyroid problems that can be caused by cabbage. Sauerkraut has helped many people as a probiotic, but unfortunately fermentation doesn't eliminate the substances that cause this.

Thanks for your reply Monotonic! Well I guess I will chuck away my "3 day sauerkraut" as I think it is doomed to fail. Interesting reading those links. I read on one that a 8 week fermentation was optimal but not in the fridge as that wasnt good for the good bacteria.

So I bought some raw unpasteurised sauerkraut and it arrived today and it insists on jar that it should be fridged. What is your opinion on this and on shop bought unpasteurised sauerkraut in general? Thanks

Jamie

 

[monotonic]

I'm not an expert, but my general rule here is that if you can make it at home for an acceptable cost, why not? I don't think a super-expensive sauerkraut from the store is going to have any advantage over homemade sauerkraut using organic locally grown ingredients. It's certainly not going to be any more natural.

 

[whitecoast]

I decided to try out making sauerkraut with spring mix, which is a variety of green leaves instead of cabbage. It didn't turn out, and all I got was gunky green stuff. I think the problem was adding chopped ginger to it for flavor. Ginger is antimicrobial, so it stopped the whole fermentation process. I'll try it again without ginger and report back.