Franz Bardon

[Laura]

I find that improbable.

Why?

 

[paulnotbilly]

What I did find though is this:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/188592 ... p;n=283155

I don’t think I have ever seen 40 five star reviews out of 41 ever, if that means anything?

What it might mean is that it is being deliberately hyped with "clappers" and the Greek choruse a la cointelpro.

I find that improbable. Even though, if I remember correctly, I was the one who threw into the discussion the by now notorious "you can't be paranoid enough" quote (from the move Strange Days), I think to call the Amazon reviews COINTELPRO is a little far out.
I mean, the guy was internationally not much known and until now, nobody from the Forum even new anything about him. The Amazon thing would be a little overkill for COINTELPRO - no?

I find the exercises demand a lot of self-discipline and are kind of hard to follow through in normal every day life. My take is that he was a member of some secret society and learned the stuff there but then following an genuine STO impulse broke the secrecy and decided to make his knowledge available for anybody who was searching.

If you are not successful in the exercises it is of course easier to call the master a fraud rather than yourself a failure.

Of cause I could be wrong, since it is aparent, even from his few posts, that samvado read all the right books and tried out everything, so it must be true.

So it's not possible that the STS passed onto their human slaves the knowledge that this book would be written at some point?

If you're going to hijack something, there's no better place for it to happen than as early as possible. That way you only need to expend minimal energies on keeping the false direction.

 

[paulnotbilly]

It is however a proven fact that he started his career as a stage magician.

Sounds like a Clive Barker short story from one of his 'books of blood' - a man trades his soul for magical powers only to realise what he's done is truly horrific (the 'magic' isn't all it cracked up to be). He decides then to 'belittle' the evil powers who he traded with by carrying out 'magic' on a stage and passing it off as illusion.

 

[Fifth Way]

I find that improbable.

Why?

It just seems like overkill to me. Overwhelming recognition for a guy that is really not that recognized.
No I don't have the data to back it up. Its just my take at this point.
However, two forum members where kind enough to give me leeds as to where to find Bardon's material online (Thank you!) which I will check in due course, to share relevant data in this regards. I'm not defending this guy. I want to know whether there is something there or not. His principles made sense to me, however that doesn't mean anything at all.


I guess, what I am having the problem with is this:

German and Indian are the two most blindly respected sources.

Is there any data that can support that stament? I am German and I can not verify that the German authors in this field get automatically international attention. However with the right data I am ready change my mind.

I wouldnt agree with Laura that the posititive Amazon feedbacks are cointelpro - I think they are just from all those who have read but not sufficiently investigated his works.

So forty people finding the material useful are wrong and you, not being able to make it work, are right - right? And that is due to your credentials that you keep repeating in a verity of post? Compared to this statement I find Laura's take actually the MORE probable one.

Dont take my word for it

I can assure you, you do not have to worry about this.

I suggest those who are still interested in his work do the homework I have done and find out for themselves...

This is a completely new concept to the members of this site. We were all wondering what went wrong so far! Thanks for sharing.

...it is not that hard

I am relieved - thanks again.
Even though you seem to focus on the work-section of the forum I may suggest to read this thread:http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=395 It starts out seemingly unrelated to our discussion here, but looking at your other posts I think you may enjoy it. You may find an answer as to why this website/forum is entirely different from whatever you spend your last 30 years on but why it is nevertheless totally relevant.
You may also learn that your repeated reassurance of you competence doesn't impress anybody here if not backed up by facts or logic.

So it's not possible that the STS passed onto their human slaves the knowledge that this book would be written at some point?

Of course it is.

If you're going to hijack something, there's no better place for it to happen than as early as possible. That way you only need to expend minimal energies on keeping the false direction.

This too seems true.

I apologize in advanced if the followup and checking of the leeds will take a while. I am preoccupied with other matters of personal nature right now. Thanks

 

[samvado]

...it is not that hard

I am relieved - thanks again. ... etc... snip

Why such cynical remarks towards my msg? What investment do you have towards right or wrong of Bardon? I for one have none. Have you not read (or forgotten) what I wrote before. I did do A LOT OF research on Bardon, I TRIED his techniques, I used kinesiology, i.e. I did my homework - however WHEN I did it I was not considering sharing my results with others one day OR I would have written down my result and established a link-list which I could now present to you to make your life easier. However, it is not that hard to do that for yourself. If you spend one weekend that will be much less time than applying his techniques for years and not having any result to show for the time spent.

 

[Fifth Way]

Why such cynical remarks towards my msg?

Because you assume a great deal.
Why do you suggest to other to do their homework? Do you know they are not doing it? What does it tell about yourself and how you view them? Why not just state your opinion?

What investment do you have towards right or wrong of Bardon?

I want to know whether there is something there or not. His principles made sense to me...

My investment is to assess potential contribution for the Work. Isn't that why you are on this forum? Isn't that why you tried him out? Doesn't that constitute that you do have an investment of some sort?

I for one have none.

Why do you deny it?
However a remark such as (I'm paraphrasing) 'nobody knows what they are talking about except me, because I read everything and tried everything' does no contribute anything of value to the discussion.

Compared to this statement I find Laura's take actually the MORE probable one.

I could now present to you to make your life easier.

Why do you assign so much importance to yourself as to think that I expect you to make my life easier?

If you spend one weekend that will be much less time than applying his techniques for years and not having any result to show for the time spent.

Is that what you did? What investment do you have in how I spend my time?
It may be just me (in which case I apologize to the the rest of the members) but you come across as somebody who talks down to people, as somebody who wants to settle an argument by trying to impress with assurance of competence.
I repeat; it may be that I am way too sensitive and in that case I apologize to you. But that is how I feel.
Let me give you two examples:

Dont forget that the esoteric realm is the one with the most followers (aka no-judging-believers) and the least number of people ready for critical thinking.

Why do you think you need to remind me of that? Do you assume I don't know that? Do you assume nobody knows that on this forum?
or

Have you not read (or forgotten) what I wrote before.

Is that what you think? It seems that you regard me as quite incompetent - at least that is how your communique is perceived by me.

So again, I want to make that clear: I really could be too sensitive - I probably are - but then again you could be taking yourself too important and that would mean that despite all the books read and years spend there is still a lot of Work to be done (like for all of us - with me right in the first row).

I hope I answerde your question.

And I hope you have a sense of humor because to me 'samvado' sounds just like 'frabato' ;)

In reference to the earlier mentioned leads: They are all pdfs, so cut and past does not work, unfortunately.

 

[samvado]

Do you want to use my findings as little and subjective as they are or do you want to be right - if its about being right - fine with me, and end of communication.

I believe I do have a sense of humor, my name means "communion" in sanskrit and "communication" in hindi - your choice

 

[Fifth Way]

I believe I do have a sense of humor, my name means "communion" in sanskrit and "communication" in hindi - your choice

That is humorous - considering the context of this discussion.

The below definition from Sign's Esoteric Glossary I put here for the both of us:

Sacred Cow:

In the QFS slang, this refers to a tightly held belief with which one is identified. Questioning the belief will be seen as questioning the holder of the belief and often taken as a personal attack. Oftentimes, the more the sacred cow is at odds with reality, the more ferociously the believer will cling to it.

 

[samvado]

The below definition from Sign's Esoteric Glossary I put here for the both of us:

Sacred Cow:

In the QFS slang, this refers to a tightly held belief with which one is identified. Questioning the belief will be seen as questioning the holder of the belief and often taken as a personal attack. Oftentimes, the more the sacred cow is at odds with reality, the more ferociously the believer will cling to it.

in what way would that pertain to my comments?
If you refer to my opinion about Bardon that is not a sacret cow for me at all. I had allocated X amount of time to find out for myself (not others) that he's not worthy of pursuing. I have shared that with you. I found nothing in your writings that would make me reconsider. That is in my dictionary called an timewise economic choice, not a sacred cow.

 

[Fifth Way]

You snapped:

if its about being right - fine with me, and end of communication.

That is usually an indication that someone feels to be personally attacked.
But that is not what I intended to do. I tried to bring something about yourself to your awareness but unfortunately I still do not see an opening.

I found nothing in your writings that would make me reconsider.

That makes me think that a sacred cow might be involved. What kind of cow that is - I don't know. Don't ask me. Ask yourself.

I know it is not easy. I can share with you that I am in the middle of trying to find a huge and monstrous sacred cow of my own. It is creating havoc but I just cant see it.

And yes, it is easier to see the mistakes in others, than yourself. That is why we have group, a network here.

Enough said. Let me some day what you think about the discernment-threat.

 

[Mike]

I had allocated X amount of time to find out for myself (not others) that he's not worthy of pursuing. I have shared that with you.

What you wrote before implies much more than reading Bardon and trying the exercises. But you having shared specific information.

he made them up.

How do you know he made them up?

they dont work as advertised although they do "something".

What is the "something" they do? What did you experience? This data might help.

I stick to my opinion that Bardon was a fraud.

You didn't provide any specific information about why you feel he is a fraud besides trying the exercises.

I checked on him quite thorouly believe me - and i did his stuff (for a while).

Does the above mean that you only did the exercises? Or does it mean (combined with the other things I quoted above) that you researched his background, etc. and came to this conclusion? If so, the information that you found is the data that is valued and what I think Fifth Way and others are interested in.

Do you want to use my findings as little and subjective as they are or do you want to be right - if its about being right - fine with me, and end of communication.

It's not about being right. This is about the data and providing the data to others and using the network to see if the data is valid.

 

[samvado]

It's not about being right. This is about the data and providing the data to others and using the network to see if the data is valid.

I said from the begining that I had not kept records of my findings and that I could only give an emotionaly colored memory based account.
of course its you freedom to not take that as anything - or take it as hint to something and follow up on it.
it was meant as such hint - not as scientific expertise on bardon.
so no data except my opinion based on my memory which is some data but maybe not the one you want.
let me also remark: this is a waste of time - I am not willing to be lectured on communication techniques and I am not able to give out more data than I have on the subject of this inquiry: Bardon.

 

[Beau]

It's not about being right. This is about the data and providing the data to others and using the network to see if the data is valid.

I said from the begining that I had not kept records of my findings and that I could only give an emotionaly colored memory based account.
of course its you freedom to not take that as anything - or take it as hint to something and follow up on it.
it was meant as such hint - not as scientific expertise on bardon.
so no data except my opinion based on my memory which is some data but maybe not the one you want.
let me also remark: this is a waste of time - I am not willing to be lectured on communication techniques and I am not able to give out more data than I have on the subject of this inquiry: Bardon.

So then all you presented to us was noise. An emotionally colored account is not useful, as it is subejctive. Other places may be receptive to your "hints", but here we prefer something with a much stronger signal.

 

[aprilfool]

I liked Bardon's books a great deal. As is with all things, his books are a tool to come to your own awarenesses. If reaching awareness/enlightenment/etc. were easy, then everyone would already be self aware. People love instant gratification. Self work is about last on the chart of quick.