Getting rid of WiFi

I would not use this powerline technology if I were you, because it may and probably will cause e-smog as well, and in some cases, under certain circumstances, even more. It is different from Wifi, DECT and GSM (not pulsed, lower SAR, no VLF in use), but is also bad. Ethernet is the only good solution at the moment.
 
Sirius said:
I would not use this powerline technology if I were you, because it may and probably will cause e-smog as well, and in some cases, under certain circumstances, even more. It is different from Wifi, DECT and GSM (not pulsed, lower SAR, no VLF in use), but is also bad. Ethernet is the only good solution at the moment.

Interesting thought. It's true that powerlines are not shielded and it put hight frequency in it I guess. Would be interesting to have data.
 
Sirius said:
I would not use this powerline technology if I were you, because it may and probably will cause e-smog as well, and in some cases, under certain circumstances, even more. It is different from Wifi, DECT and GSM (not pulsed, lower SAR, no VLF in use), but is also bad. Ethernet is the only good solution at the moment.
Do you have any references on this? Has this been tested anywhere that you know of?
 
When my kids lived with us, they had WiFi running in the house. My wife & I "FELT" it, the frequency waves that is. When I turned it off, My wife & I both "FELT" the air settle, calm down. Subjective I know, nevertheless we both indescribably "FELT" it...
 
[quote author=Ellipse]Interesting thought. It's true that powerlines are not shielded and it put hight frequency in it I guess. Would be interesting to have data.[/quote]Up to 30 MHz (up to 27-28 MHz usually). That powerlines are in the most cases not shielded seems to be the main problem or the problem per se. And PLC technology definitely increases the emission. So why to use it if better alternatives exist?

[quote author=foofighter]Do you have any references on this? Has this been tested anywhere that you know of?[/quote]There are user testimonies, of course, sensitive people who had negative experiences with those things and now describing them (how many do not describe and connect health issues with wireless and PLC!?). On the other hand, extreme electro-sensitivity doesn't seem to be a natural or healthy condition. I always wondered what such people could do in order to become more healthy if possible at all. Perhaps their bodies themselves are loaded with fluoride, heavy metals and various poisons. Only a guess, but I think that an electro-hypersensitivity as a very few people have is like a total breakdown of the body, a point or condition of no return, whereby e-smog is the main trigger or something like that. These are people who are able to sense their neighbours' light bulbs, for example. But there is also normal sensitivity; people who cannot use cellphones or WiFi but have no problems with electricity. I would take preferably those generally healthy people as a scale.
And then, of course, it has been measured. Everything has been measured. The exposure varies from situation to situation. Something around 0.1mW (could be more sometimes) is usually measured on average which is compared to WiFi and DECT a very low signal, but strong enough to affect the body. It is actually too much.
It is also important to know how exactly the devices in question work. Actually, such a PLC installation doesn't communicate and isn't active all the time (like WiFi and DECT!), only when needed, when data is transferred.
I am only aware of German material and information describing various effects of PLC and wireless technology.

[quote author=Al Today]When my kids lived with us, they had WiFi running in the house. My wife & I "FELT" it, the frequency waves that is. When I turned it off, My wife & I both "FELT" the air settle, calm down. Subjective I know, nevertheless we both indescribably "FELT" it...[/quote]Why subjective? Some people can obviously sense this kind of radiation, yours truly included, probably and especially the pulsed ones because they affect the brain in a rather aggressive way due to interference with brain waves and neural cells. I immediately sense strong WiFi or DECT signals, the radiation emitted by cellphone towers, etc. What I especially noticed is: There is a kind of threshold or an acceptance limit for the body. When exceeded, certain bodily aches and a brain befuddlement arise. In case of an endurable EM exposure, the body can rest and relax and regenerate easily afterwards. The latter is very similar to and perhaps accompanies energy draining or weakening.
 
There is another alternative that uses the cable TV lines in the house if you have them already.

___http://markhershey.wordpress.com/2010/08/01/mocaethernet-over-coax-for-your-multimedia-devices/

Basically it uses the coaxial (shielded) cables to transmit up to 200mbit. Just have to make sure your cable is not too old and the splitters may need to be replaced.
 
The BBC recently did some measurements on Power-Line Transmission systems to see how much interference there would be with their radio broadcasts. This is their conclusion:

9. Conclusions
Home-networking PLT devices called Power Line Adaptors (PLAs) communicate by injecting data
signals onto the mains wiring. Previous studies on PLAs that use HF for communication have
shown that the resulting unwanted emissions can disturb the reception of HF broadcasts. More recently
PLAs have become available that promise greater data-carrying capacity by exploiting the
VHF range. This raises the concern that they might interfere with reception of broadcast FM and
DAB radio services.
This paper describes experiments on a particular pair of PLAs, in the laboratory and in two homes
to try to establish their interference-causing potential. It was confirmed that they used frequencies in
the VHF range, roughly from 50 to 300 MHz. They could also default to operation at HF, with a
lower data rate, if the mains-path conditions at VHF were too ‘difficult’, although some VHF
transmissions would nevertheless continue. Indeed, whichever of HF or VHF was used for data
transmission, intermittent transmissions continued in the other, presumably for channel-sounding
purposes. Intermittent transmissions also took place in both bands when no data was being actively
transmitted, i.e. when the network was ‘idling’.
Although PLT networking using VHF was shown to be possible in the two homes, it was not always
readily established, especially in home B where many factors were found which could prevent it.
The presence of other mains-powered devices as well as the communicating PLAs, particularly
equipment with EMC filtering, was found to disrupt PLT operation at VHF. As a result, there were
many combinations of rooms in home B which could not be interconnected using VHF PLT — in
contrast to the universal coverage of the property already established using WiFi.
When VHF PLT networking was established and carrying data, the resulting emissions were found
to increase the reception noise floor by some 20 dB. In many cases this was found to disturb FM or
DAB reception indoors. Some disturbance to reception was also caused when the PLT network was
idling, even if only using HF because VHF PLT data transmission did not work over a particular
path. The precise impact on reception was found to depend on the RF signal-to-PLT-interference
ratio.
Spectrum analyser plots of the received signals in homes A and B show that the operation of the
PLAs elevated the apparent noise floor in VHF Band II by between 15 and 25 dB. A similar degradation
was also apparent in VHF Band III where DAB broadcast networks are deployed. The impact
on reception was found to depend on the reception margin of the victim radio service.
Home A suffered significant interference to portable indoor reception of national-network FM services
from Wrotham, but not to reception of those from Crystal Palace which had greater signal
strength (and hence greater margin). Note that home A would nevertheless be regarded as within the
coverage area of both.
Home B also suffered interference to portable indoor reception of national FM networks from Wrotham
(in this case the intended transmitter) — and very severe interference to reception of BBC
London, for which home B is predicted to be just at the edge of the coverage area.
Rooftop reception of FM services in home B was also disrupted, particularly when the PLA devices
were carrying significant traffic. The audible degradation was clearly noticeable on a ‘hi-fi’ receiver.
Reception of the service predicted to be just at edge of coverage was greatly disturbed, while interference
could also still be clearly heard when receiving the appreciably stronger national network
service.
The tentative conclusion is that the number of homes which could suffer interference to indoor FM
reception from VHF PLA devices could be quite significant, since interference was observed in both
homes even though the received signal levels exceeded the minimum field strength expected at the
edge of the coverage area. Homes enjoying signal levels that match or exceed that of the national
networks from Crystal Palace at home A would probably not be affected. Having said that, the reception
of weaker signals from distant transmitters would almost certainly be compromised by the
operation of PLAs, and for indoor portable reception, the percentage of locations where satisfactory
performance can be obtained will be reduced.
To quantify further the proportion of households that could be affected requires a detailed planning
study, perhaps using prediction techniques in novel ways. Additional variability will be introduced
by height loss, building penetration loss and location variation indoors. A preliminary estimate,
based on a 20 dB increase in man-made noise levels, suggests a substantial reduction of the coverage
area could result from widespread use of VHF PLA devices.
Similar reception problems were observed in the DAB band, with elevated noise floors clearly observed.
Home A, which receives very strong DAB signals, suffered no obvious effects from PLT
operation on indoor DAB reception, but the impact in home B (which normally has reliable DAB
reception) was quite severe. The ‘digital cliff’ effect of DAB means that only a very small change in
RF SIR is needed to go from unaffected reception to no reception at all. This could be directly confirmed
in Home B, since different DAB multiplexes were received with a range of signal strengths
and their performance in the presence of PLT emissions could be seen to range correspondingly.
Homes A and B are predicted to receive similar national-network DAB field strengths; since the reception
outcomes were so different it follows that variability in prediction, and in (height loss plus
penetration loss) is greater than the few-dB width of the ‘digital cliff’.
A similar conclusion must be drawn for indoor DAB reception: if they had similar PLAs in operation,
a non-negligible proportion of homes would be affected, but not all homes. Refinement of this
crude result looks to be more difficult than for FM, since prediction software only tells us about
outdoor field strength, and in this case the variability in (height loss plus penetration loss) has a
more drastic impact, being more than enough to go from no PLT-interference effects to total loss of
reception.
Nevertheless some pointers have been given how prediction tools could perhaps be used to try to
refine the estimate of the percentage of homes potentially affected, assuming a widespread deployment
of PLAs like those tested. Guidance has also been given regarding extra precautions to be
taken in any future experimental work.
It must be noted that any conclusions drawn here specifically relate to PLAs like those tested; other
PLAs also using VHF for data communication might well behave differently, although if they use
similar injection levels in the FM and DAB bands their impact on reception might be expected to be
generally similar.

Full report here:

http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/whp/whp-pdf-files/WHP195.pdf
 
Mechanic said:
The BBC recently did some measurements on Power-Line Transmission systems to see how much interference there would be with their radio broadcasts. This is their conclusion:

Good find!!!

I remember reading that these powerline devices have problems with making a stable ethernet connection, depending on the wiring and the fuse/breaker panel. Just because a wire carries electricity to power things doesn't mean it will be stable enough to run a high speed connection!
 
I made the mistake by buying at a shop that had only wifi routers, now our workplace is powered by wifi. :( It had to be a nearby shop, in a hurry, and we had no internet of course to search for the alternative: ethernet router. I set it to transmit power: low
but even with this setting my head feels like something is peeling my brain off layer by layer. Same nagging, pressing confusing, dizzying pain is felt when my boss gave me his ringing mobile phone to:
- Answer it!

:( :( :( I can't think clearly, the transmitter is 1 meters away from me, desperation, anguish, looking for another job at 39 really has not good chances. :) Now I have the wonderful opportunity to try to fight my way out of this situation with my head put into a microwave oven. Office walls are from ferro-concrete (steel reinforced) so as using a mobile in a car results in microwaves bouncing off from car frame = you put yourself into a microwave oven, i think with our office walls something similar may happen. Now have to restrain my temper not to blurt out because of wifi, stupid stupid me!!!!!! :( :( :( :( :(


just read my own signature: "There is no god to save you from your own careless hand."
 
[quote author=forge]I made the mistake by buying at a shop that had only wifi routers, now our workplace is powered by wifi. It had to be a nearby shop, in a hurry, and we had no internet of course to search for the alternative: ethernet router. I set it to transmit power: low[/quote]Most (nearly all) WiFi routers are Ethernet routers, too. You can switch the wireless module off?! Or is this an issue at your workplace because the staff wants to use WiFi? Did you have to buy those network devices? What's the situation in detail? Are you an administrator there or something like that?
WiFi is bad within enterprise environments anyway due to potential security and speed (and above all health) issues. If they are not concerned about health (which is in 99,9...% the case), you could explain the other downsides. Perhaps they will reconsider.

[quote author=forge]but even with this setting my head feels like something is peeling my brain off layer by layer. Same nagging, pressing confusing, dizzying pain is felt when my boss gave me his ringing mobile phone to:[/quote]Yes, description is quite accurate. This is how it is experienced usually.

[quote author=forge]I can't think clearly, the transmitter is 1 meters away from me, desperation, anguish, looking for another job at 39 really has not good chances. Now I have the wonderful opportunity to try to fight my way out of this situation with my head put into a microwave oven. Office walls are from ferro-concrete (steel reinforced) so as using a mobile in a car results in microwaves bouncing off from car frame = you put yourself into a microwave oven, i think with our office walls something similar may happen. Now have to restrain my temper not to blurt out because of wifi, stupid stupid me!!!!!![/quote]One metre distance? From the router? This is, I would say, almost deadly.
 
We run 4 desktop computers in my household. I use three for my trading activities and my wife has hers in a different part of the house. When the kids come home on vacation, they bring their lap tops and tablets with them. At my insistence everything is connected by cable. It's more clumsy but no big deal. A few years back, I tried a wireless router. Within minutes it gave me headaches. I took it down and the headaches went away. My family thinks I'm imagining things. Never mind that I'm trained as an engineer and know a little bit about electromagnetism. That stuff scares me really. It's invisible. I have an old cell phone but I use it sparingly, and then only with an earpiece. Additionally, I twisted a small wire coil around the connecting wire to further dissipate the EM signal. At home, I try to keep the cell phone at least 3 meters away from me.

After reading some of the transcripts, I'm now exploring ways of wearing silk. Obviously I'm NOT GONNA TELL the wife and kids! That would be the end! As an aside, I've studied taichi for over ten years and have wondered why many Chinese masters wore silk. What did they know?

In my town (in northern NJ), there's a huge cell phone tower, right across the street from the elementary school. It just amazes me that the parents of these young children are oblivious to the long term risks. So many are still asleep.
 
[quote author=sitting]In my town (in northern NJ), there's a huge cell phone tower, right across the street from the elementary school. It just amazes me that the parents of these young children are oblivious to the long term risks. So many are still asleep.[/quote]Would be interesting to know the school's position in relation to the cones of radiation.

You can find thousands of such cases across the entire world, wherever cellphones are used. Just take the total number of cellphone towers within a country, such a figure is easily obtainable, and estimate how many of them are placed ruthlessly and how many people are affected by one of those towers. We certainly do not deal with a few unfortunate incidents. :cry:
And then, of course, the very indoor transmitters such as WiFi and cordless phones... And mobile devices such as cellphones radiating permanently all day long...
Sometimes I search for such signals. I found WiFi even being used in kindergartens, which is alarming in my opinion!
One of the blockbusters is WiFi within hospitals or healthcare environments! There is at least one hospital in Germany I know of which has made extensive use of WiFi (and certainly DECT) since 2005. I visited once a dentist where cellphones were not allowed, but surprisingly it wasn't an issue at all to have a cordless phone at the reception desk. :huh:
 
Sirius said:
[quote author=forge]I made the mistake by buying at a shop that had only wifi routers, now our [..]
Most (nearly all) WiFi routers are Ethernet routers, too. You can switch the wireless module off?! Or is this an issue at your workplace because the staff wants to use WiFi? Did you have to buy those network devices? What's the situation in detail? Are you an administrator there or something like that? [..] [/quote]
This new T-Link(tm) WiFi router is an ethernet router too & there are options to disable Wireless Router Radio and disable SSID Broadcast. I turned WiFi off, leaving ethernet always on. Since we had an ethernet router until it's recent death, we have ethernet cabling.

I got home, thought about this with a cool head. Giving in my resignation would be bad as employee, throwing a lot of rights out of the window. Best are my rights if the employer fires me. Therefore i figured i will feign lack of savvy, lack of technical expertise regards WiFi and blame it on electrical interference of the building and the devices we have. Respecting Karmic Directive Level One, i have to switch WiFi on after 16:00pm, when leaving
workplace. ;D This way everybody has the chance to learn. :D


Edit:
+ i decided to explain calmly to my Boss that i'm sensitive to Wifi: after 5 minutes of exposure getting vertigo/nauseous/concentration loss/headache/coordination problems. I pondered, is it the panic, a placebo effect and not really the Wifi? But the physical feelings are so strong, accumulating over minutes and i can feel instantly when i power it on. It's like a blast-wave of stun-radiation.
 
You could also shown him some studies. With Sott.net and this forum you should be a rich man regarding this.
 
forge said:
Therefore i figured i will feign lack of savvy, lack of technical expertise regards WiFi and blame it on electrical interference of the building and the devices we have.

Reading your issue, I was thinking the same thing. That you could "sabotage" the wireless somehow to force people to use the wired connections. I had to install lots of access points at my work, and felt bad about it knowing the negative health implications behind it. Especially since in some cases I had to install the WAP directly above some people's desks. At my work, we have wired connections to every desk so the WiFi is considered a "nice to have". If it's not working properly, users are told to plug in. Wireless is never as reliable or as fast as a hard-wired connection, and never will be so that's the argument we use with staff who complain about spotty connectivity. Wifi not working? Sorry to hear that, go ahead and plug your laptop in and I'll fix it later.

sitting said:
In my town (in northern NJ), there's a huge cell phone tower, right across the street from the elementary school. It just amazes me that the parents of these young children are oblivious to the long term risks. So many are still asleep.

They truly sad part is when cell towers are located right on the school and the administrators likely clamored to have it that way. They see it as a win-win I am sure, as the school will then get revenue from the cell provider for leasing them space.
 

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