Global cooling and weather manipulation

The timing of this 'global cooling' is certainly convenient.

_http://www.adn.com/news/environment/story/349466.html

adn.com said:
WASHINGTON -- Critical Arctic sea ice this winter made a tenuous partial recovery from last summer's record melt, federal scientists said Tuesday. But that's an illusion, like a Hollywood movie set, scientist Walter Meier of the National Snow and Ice Data Center said. The ice is very thin and vulnerable to heavy melting again this summer.

Last summer, Arctic ice shrank to an area that was 27 percent smaller than the previous record. This winter, it recovered to a maximum of 5.8 million square miles, up 4 percent and the most since 2003, NASA ice scientist Josefino Comiso said. It is still a bit below the long-term average level for this time of year.

"What's going on underneath the surface is really the key thing," Meier said in an interview following a news conference. What's happening is not enough freezing.

Summer Arctic sea ice is important because it's intricately connected to weather conditions elsewhere on the globe. It affects wind patterns, temperatures farther south and even the Gulf Stream, acting as a sort of refrigerator for the globe, according to scientists.

"What happens there matters here," said Waleed Abdalati, chief ice scientist at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Md. "Climate for the period of human record has depended on the ice being there."
_http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/seaice_conditions_media.html

217973main_Figure1_IceMap9_500.jpg

nasa.gov said:
Figure 1 -- This ice concentration map dated March 9, 2008, indicates maximum ice extent in the Northern Hemisphere and the contour of the ice edge in 2006 (when the maximum extent was least extensive during the satellite era) is shown in red while that for the 28-year average is shown in gold. > High resolution image Credit: NASA
So in 2006 the Gulf stream flow is interrupted by warming temperatures causing arctic fresh water to melt into the salty ocean. This same Gulf stream flow is what stabilizes earths climate and is especially what's keeping Europe from plunging into another ice age. How convenient that it suddenly starts to get cooler during the past year. Hmmm, seems very suspicious. Could it be that some sort of damage control is being put into play to keep that Gulf stream healthy? Or are these forces completely out of human hands?

Can the climate/earth functions be manipulated? Some think so. It's a little far fetched but it's not outside the realm of possibility I think.

_http://www.usatoday.com/weather/climate/2005-09-20-wacky-weatherman_x.htm

_http://www.greatdreams.com/weather/weather_manipulation.htm

_http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO201A.html

Michel Chossudovsky said:
According to Dr. Rosalie Bertell, HAARP is part of a integrated weapons' system, which has potentially devastating environmental consequences:

"It is related to fifty years of intensive and increasingly destructive programs to understand and control the upper atmosphere. It would be rash not to associate HAARP with the space laboratory construction which is separately being planned by the United States. HAARP is an integral part of a long history of space research and development of a deliberate military nature. The military implications of combining these projects is alarming. ... The ability of the HAARP / Spacelab/ rocket combination to deliver very large amount of energy, comparable to a nuclear bomb, anywhere on earth via laser and particle beams, are frightening. The project is likely to be "sold" to the public as a space shield against incoming weapons, or, for the more gullible, a device for repairing the ozone layer." (10)

In addition to weather manipulation, HAARP has a number of related uses:

"HAARP could contribute to climate change by intensively bombarding the atmosphere with high-frequency rays... Returning low-frequency waves at high intensity could also affect people's brains, and effects on tectonic movements cannot be ruled out. (11)
Wait, what? "effects on tectonic movements cannot be ruled out?" So does this mean that the on average one earthquake every other day around the globe recently and the weird weather patterns might all be attributed (to some degree) to HAARP? The plot definitely thickens....

Michel Chossudovsky said:
More generally, HAARP has the ability of modifying the World's electro-magnetic field. It is part of an arsenal of "electronic weapons" which US military researchers consider a "gentler and kinder warfare". (12)
Now keep in mind the article was written in 2001...

Michel Chossudovsky said:
The use of HAARP -- if it were to be applied -- could have potentially devastating impacts on the World's climate. Responding to US economic and strategic interests, it could be used to selectively modify climate in different parts of the World resulting in the destabilization of agricultural and ecological systems.
The geo-political ramifications of weather manipulation are especially interesting. For example, if the euro gains too much ground against the dollar it's interesting to think that a switch or two could be flipped and presto chango, problem solved. With world economic markets so interconnected these days, all out war between super powers would be too devastating. If weather manipulation capabilities do exist, might they be used as methods of covert attack? Of course they would.
 
Teleprion said:
So in 2006 the Gulf stream flow is interrupted by warming temperatures causing arctic fresh water to melt into the salty ocean. This same Gulf stream flow is what stabilizes earths climate and is especially what's keeping Europe from plunging into another ice age. How convenient that it suddenly starts to get cooler during the past year. Hmmm, seems very suspicious. Could it be that some sort of damage control is being put into play to keep that Gulf stream healthy? Or are these forces completely out of human hands?
Maybe it has been getting cooler because of said interruptions, and the fact that the Gulf stream has been progressively weakening for the past 20-50 years, depending on whose research you read and look at. In fact there was evidence posted on site last January or February (although I could be wrong about the dates) that points to the Gulf Stream having stopped for a few days completely, and the effects were many heavy snow storms and plummeting temps in the Northern parts of the US and Europe, as well as a few unusual wind storms in the northern latitudes. I hypothesise that this warming and cooling is just part of the natural cycles that earth goes through, and needs no manipulation from any forces, human or non-human, it just is.

I’m curious as to what prompted you to think that there is any weather manipulation involved, as opposed to this being a natural part of the cycle of global warming leading to global cooling, as evidenced quite heavily/readily on this site?

If you are interested in further reading and research these following editorials would be a good start for someone wanting to understand more fully about climate change and the cycles that are involved, as well the disinformation out there regarding it. I also wouldn’t rely too heavily on what comes out of NASA, as they are a dab hand at hiding or veiling truths between lies, it takes quite a bit of discernment to figure out which is which.

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/125454-Fire-and-Ice-The-Day-After-Tomorrow

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/128992-Forget-About-Global-Warming-We-re-One-Step-From-Extinction-


Teleprion said:
Wait, what? "effects on tectonic movements cannot be ruled out?" So does this mean that the on average one earthquake every other day around the globe recently and the weird weather patterns might all be attributed (to some degree) to HAARP? The plot definitely thickens....
The C’s once spoke to Laura about the weather we see on the BBM here, actually being a 3D representation of hyperdimensional battles between forces of STS vs STO, which begs the question, are our governments able to create a weapon such as your suggesting HAARP is, that can control hyperdimensional beings/life-forms in other densities? Unlikely I think, and if they did try to control these beings/life-forms, we would likely have a full scale hyperdimensional war on our hands that know one could cover up.

The C’s also suggested that HAARP was not being used for weather manipulation, as is being touted all over the WWW at the moment, but is rather used for purposes of mass mind control, and from the research I have read on site, and done a little of myself, I would tend to concur with this hypothesis (although that is not to say either of us are necessarily right or wrong, as we just don’t know and can only hypothesise until one of us gains the necessary security clearance to find out lol).

A search of the site and the Wave series would likely give you a better idea of reasoning behind the mind control aspect of the HAARP programme, and I believe that there have been quite a few forum posts relating to this subject also, which are well worth a read. The site map is also useful for bringing yourself up to speed on the current thinking on this subject.

If you have already read this information and I’m just regurgitating it for you, I apologise. I get the feeling however, from your post that your hypothesis in relation to HAARP and the possible causes of the earth changes, may not be quite collinear with (I suspect) many of us on the forum.
 
Appollynon said:
The C’s once spoke to Laura about the weather we see on the BBM here, actually being a 3D representation of hyperdimensional battles between forces of STS vs STO, which begs the question, are our governments able to create a weapon such as your suggesting HAARP is, that can control hyperdimensional beings/life-forms in other densities? Unlikely I think, and if they did try to control these beings/life-forms, we would likely have a full scale hyperdimensional war on our hands that know one could cover up.
As for the C's conversations Laura, I think we need to remember that this info needs to be take with a grain of salt since usually what they were saying to her spoke of only one possible reality out of many. There are other realities and scenarios we can consider. As for the STO/STS battles...it also could be that just as the weather might represent certain forces and conflicts, certain behaviors and creations by human beings might represent these conflicts as well. Human beings and their creations are not divorced from the natural world.

Appollynon said:
The C’s also suggested that HAARP was not being used for weather manipulation, as is being touted all over the WWW at the moment, but is rather used for purposes of mass mind control, and from the research I have read on site, and done a little of myself, I would tend to concur with this hypothesis (although that is not to say either of us are necessarily right or wrong, as we just don’t know and can only hypothesise until one of us gains the necessary security clearance to find out lol).
The objective observation of our life on this planet (insofar as objectivity is possible) points towards governments being capable of things we might most definitely feel are in the realm of science fiction. I don't understand though, if HAARP can supposedly control peoples minds, how is it such a leap to imagine that it can also control the weather? I suppose it could quite easily do both, and maybe other things we aren't even aware of. What are they doing all the time up there on that space station anyway? Hmmm....

Appollynon said:
I get the feeling however, from your post that your hypothesis in relation to HAARP and the possible causes of the earth changes, may not be quite collinear with (I suspect) many of us on the forum.
I appreciate your points, however I feel that it is healthy to constantly have a conversation about these issues. When all are in total agreement the conversation usually turns into a "preaching to the choir" scenario which is not productive. I happen to feel differently about HAARP. I am very skeptical about the mind control aspect, and I feel the electro-magnetic disruptions it can cause have more bearing on earth's natural functions. I could be mistaken of course, but so could we all at the end of the day. No one knows anything for sure, that's for sure lol.
 
Actually, what Appollynon wrote is spot on - and written very courteously and patiently. Since it was lost on you, let me be a bit more frank.

T said:
I appreciate your points, however I feel that it is healthy to constantly have a conversation about these issues. When all are in total agreement the conversation usually turns into a "preaching to the choir" scenario which is not productive.
This is not true. Very often, on this forum, when all are in agreement, that is because an objective understanding of something has been reached. You do not understand this because you hold your own thoughts in high esteem - you overestimate yourself and your understanding and because of this you - consistently - inject noise onto this forum.

You continue to honestly believe that you know anything at all and that your thoughts on things are worth the time and effort it takes to read them. This, unfortunately, is not true.


T said:
I happen to feel differently about HAARP. I am very skeptical about the mind control aspect, and I feel the electro-magnetic disruptions it can cause have more bearing on earth's natural functions.
No offense intended, but you truly don't seem to understand that this forum is not for opinions. I realize that sounds harsh, but over and over again, this forum is subject to Telperion's subjective pontifications. It is time for it to stop.

T said:
I could be mistaken of course, but so could we all at the end of the day. No one knows anything for sure, that's for sure lol.
It is important to remember, Telperion, that this is not your personal message board where you can spout your opinion on any matter whatsoever - usually matters that have already been covered and understood in depth. You are creating more noise - because you still think that if you 'think something' it is worth sharing here.

Read more, post less. This has been said how many times to you now? Do you understand what it means, or are you truly continuing to make this error because you really just don't grasp it?

Perhaps the time has come for you to start your own forum where you can present your subjective take on things - your opinion and your feelings - without distracting this forum.

If, at some point in time, after you have read all there is to read to get yourself up to speed, you can then contribute here instead of creating noise and distracting others because you truly, truly believe that just because a thought or idea crosses your mind, it is 'important'.

Perhaps this point in time will never arrive. It is my personal perspective that you have potential, however, unless and until you can learn to read and listen instead of talking and posting noise, there is nothing to be done.

This forum has been extremely patient with you - it seems time that you either 'get it' and read more and post less - or you move along to a forum that welcomes such behavior. This forum serves a very distinct purpose and subjective pontification is not part of that.

Unfortunately, no matter how many times this is explained to you, in many different ways, still you return to post in this manner...
 
anart said:
Read more, post less. This has been said how many times to you now? Do you understand what it means, or are you truly continuing to make this error because you really just don't grasp it?
anart, try to understand my point of view. The libraries are full of books, the internet is full of articles and with all of this info, where are we as a species? And yes I have read a variety (although not nearly all) of the literature on the book list from this site - some of which was very eye opening, and some that made me feel quite ill (The Mask of Sanity was a real gem and should be removed quite frankly). In my humble opinion, and from my own experiences, coming into contact with other minds and having a conversation (bringing various viewpoints to the table so to speak) is more beneficial than simply reading and regurgitating assimilated info. Appollynon's points were well taken by the way, howver I happen to disagree. Is that a crime? In any case, admonishing me to "read more" without saying what I should read is counter productive by the way.

anart said:
This forum serves a very distinct purpose and subjective pontification is not part of that....No offense intended, but you truly don't seem to understand that this forum is not for opinions. I realize that sounds harsh, but over and over again, this forum is subject to Telperion's subjective pontifications. It is time for it to stop.
You once said to me that this is not a "chat room" or something to that affect - well, that was already clear to me however I feel more communication, not less, is beneficial. What you term as my "pontification" is simply my sharing of ideas and thoughts, information and contrasting viewpoints as are these:

_http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=7584
_http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=7584
_http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=7115
_http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=8352
_http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=2338
_http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=7517
_http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=8150
_http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=6884
_http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=8138
_http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=8270
_http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=7043
_http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=6359

As should be clear to anyone, subjectivity and opinionatedness is sometimes quite avoidable. Part of the purpose of this forum, as is clear from the diverse range of material here, is to collect and gather and analyze information about a wide range of subjects both esoteric and otherwise. If I have "distracted" anyone, I am truly sorry, but that was not my intention.
 
t said:
some of which was very eye opening, and some that made me feel quite ill (The Mask of Sanity was a real gem and should be removed quite frankly)
Could you please explain this statement?

t said:
Part of the purpose of this forum, as is clear from the diverse range of material here, is to collect and gather and analyze information about a wide range of subjects both esoteric and otherwise. If I have "distracted" anyone, I am truly sorry, but that was not my intention.
So, in other words, you intend to continue on in the way you have been, despite the input you have been given? If this is your intention, please make it perfectly clear so there is no misunderstanding, since if this is the case, this forum is not for you.
 
Telperion said:
And yes I have read a variety (although not nearly all) of the literature on the book list from this site - some of which was very eye opening, and some that made me feel quite ill (The Mask of Sanity was a real gem and should be removed quite frankly).
Telperion, this is a prime example of what Anart is talking about. I found this statement of yours to be quite the eye-opener. It says much about you and nothing about the book you mention. Why would you want this book removed from the SOTT database? If reading it makes you ill, have you spent any time in self observation, trying to understand the source of your reaction?
 
anart said:
t said:
some of which was very eye opening, and some that made me feel quite ill (The Mask of Sanity was a real gem and should be removed quite frankly)
Could you please explain this statement?

t said:
Part of the purpose of this forum, as is clear from the diverse range of material here, is to collect and gather and analyze information about a wide range of subjects both esoteric and otherwise. If I have "distracted" anyone, I am truly sorry, but that was not my intention.
So, in other words, you intend to continue on in the way you have been, despite the input you have been given? If this is your intention, please make it perfectly clear so there is no misunderstanding, since if this is the case, this forum is not for you.
What I meant by my criticism of 'The Mask of Sanity' in particular is that despite some of its redeeming qualities (i.e, some of its consciousness raising regarding psychopathy), the book is overall quite antiquated and some passages I found to be overtly misogynistic, homophobic and racist. Granted, the book was originally printed in 1941.

I appreciate you pointing out certain things, however I'm having trouble seeing my behavior from your perspective especially in relation to various other postings on this site. I really don't think i "have all the answers" or that my opinion is worth anything. I realize I may come across otherwise so I will try and work on this.
 
T:

As Anart clearly pointed out to you, subjective observations are not the norm
in this forum, as I have done several times and I had to be reminded as to my
own subjectivity. Subjective views means the lack of objective knowledge,
which is why Anart is stating what she said: 'Read more and get up to speed'
so that you might be encouraged to find the evidence for yourself and learn
how to post 'objective' views?

Your post in this thread is subjective in the sense that you posit that HAARP
is a weather/weapon controlling device for example when the C's says clearly
- it is a mind control device - and even then, that statement needs objective
examination as to the facts - "Where is the proof?" There is some evidence
hinted at already in other threads and in Laura's book: "The High Strangeness...",
and it discusses Richard Dolan's research that lends credence to the C's statements.

So members of this forum who have 'done their homework' objectively, may take the
time to ask you: 'Where is the proof,' in your statements and all you have provided seems
to be your personal thoughts/feelings, for which there are no facts provided.

As for your defense/links - it depends on the manner of the post and how the post
was responded to. Some posters will acknowledge their imperceptions and some may
not. If the poster does not grok it, members here may sense it, and might reflect these
subjective views back at the poster as been done here?

FWIW,
Dan
 
dant said:
T:

As Anart clearly pointed out to you, subjective observations are not the norm
in this forum, as I have done several times and I had to be reminded as to my
own subjectivity. Subjective views means the lack of objective knowledge,
which is why Anart is stating what she said: 'Read more and get up to speed'
so that you might be encouraged to find the evidence for yourself and learn
how to post 'objective' views?

Your post in this thread is subjective in the sense that you posit that HAARP
is a weather/weapon controlling device for example when the C's says clearly
- it is a mind control device - and even then, that statement needs objective
examination as to the facts - "Where is the proof?" There is some evidence
hinted at already in other threads and in Laura's book: "The High Strangeness...",
and it discusses Richard Dolan's research that lends credence to the C's statements.

So members of this forum who have 'done their homework' objectively, may take the
time to ask you: 'Where is the proof,' in your statements and all you have provided seems
to be your personal thoughts/feelings, for which there are no facts provided.

As for your defense/links - it depends on the manner of the post and how the post
was responded to. Some posters will acknowledge their imperceptions and some may
not. If the poster does not grok it, members here may sense it, and might reflect these
subjective views back at the poster as been done here?

FWIW,
Dan
I appreciate your input and the food for thought. I'm sorry if I didn't make it clear enough originally but Dr. Rosalie Bertell published a book entitled 'Planet Earth: The Latest Weapon of War' where she examines at length the possible environmental impacts of HAARP.

-http://www.nuclearfreenz.org.nz/planetearth.htm

(snippit)
Larry Ross said:
She reveals how “the military is testing radically new weapons which imperil the earth and all life on it. Such as HAARP, which heats sections of the ionosphere until they bulge to form a curved ‘lens’ which will ‘reflect’ HAARP’s massive energy beams back to earth to destroy selected targets. She thinks ‘HAARP may destabilise a system that has established its own cycle for millions of years’ – protecting life on earth.

Or ELF, which ‘creates pulsed, extremely low frequency waves which have been directed deep into the earth itself, potentially disrupting delicately poised tectonic plates of the earths crust’ Off the Coast of Indonesia, tectonic plates in the Indian Ocean shifted to cause the Boxing Day Tsunami, killing over 250,000 people in 2004.

Dr Bertell tells us that HAARP and ELF are some of ‘growing chain of astonishingly powerful, and potentially interactive, military installations, using varied types of electromagnetic fields or wavelengths, each with a different ability to affect the earth or its atmosphere’.

Did the Pentagon test HAARP on tectonic plates off Indonesia, thereby causing the Boxing Day Tsunami? I don’t know, but I think there should be a scientific investigation of the causes, with a HARRP test as one of the possibilities. If the Pentagon has nothing to hide, they should welcome such an opportunity.
I'm only offering this information as a supplemental explanation in addition to what others have said here on this forum. I personally don't feel HAARP is singularly used for mind control purposes, if at all. But maybe it's telling me to say this ;)
 
T:

One thing to keep in mind here is, that there is no proof given by
'Dr. Rosalie Bertell', or by 'Larry Ross', and perhaps both are just
speculating/conjecturing by adding more 'noise' to the mix so they
can gain something in return? We simply do not know what their
motives are, now do we?

The Devil is in the details.

Perhaps if you had read more, you might arrive at a possible conclusion
that the 3D/4D connection is more about the 'farmer keeping the chickens
in the chicken coop' for the food source and do you suppose that the
"farmer" wants all of his "fried or roasted chickens" for dinner taken and
cooked by his "neighbor"?

If you had not bought Laura's book: "The High Strangeness of Dimensions,
Densities, and the Process of Alien Abductions", perhaps you ought to buy
this book and read it? You might be doing yourself a big favor if you do,
but of course, it is up to you.
 
t said:
Dr. Rosalie Bertell published a book entitled 'Planet Earth: The Latest Weapon of War' where she examines at length the possible environmental impacts of HAARP.
And Dr. Suess published a book entitled 'Oh The Places You'll Go' --- --- --- ---.

In short, 'so'? Who is Dr. Bertell? What are her credentials? What other work has she done, with whom is she affiliated? What hard data does she supply? What is her agenda? Or - do you just believe everything you read?

t said:
I really don't think i "have all the answers" or that my opinion is worth anything. I realize I may come across otherwise so I will try and work on this.
You have said this before and here we are again. Please understand that due to your inability to control your need to post whatever you come across, despite input given and despite material already covered, that if your posting of subjective opinion on this forum continues, your ability to post will be removed.

Apologies for being so blunt, but at this point, you seem unable to grasp what is being said to you.
 
Telperion said:
What I meant by my criticism of 'The Mask of Sanity' in particular is that despite some of its redeeming qualities (i.e, some of its consciousness raising regarding psychopathy), the book is overall quite antiquated and some passages I found to be overtly misogynistic, homophobic and racist. Granted, the book was originally printed in 1941.
So despite the immensely valuable data about psychopathy that is in it, your PC sensibilities were offended and so you think the book should go? If that doesn't prove you value your own subjective view of the world above anything anyone else has to say, I don't know what does. Perhaps you don't get it. It is very easy for anyone to validate their own view of the world by picking and choosing the work of "experts". People like Dershowitz and Pipes are quoted as "Middle East Experts" by right-wing types. That does NOT make them objective. Ultimately when the hard facts of such "experts" are checked, their argument is revealed for the pile of lies that it is.

I see precious little fact-checking in this thread, just you saying, "I disagree with this because so-and-so said so, and I have the right to my opinion". Guess what? Here, we don't care about your opinion. It just creates noise and wastes our time. Post some hard data if you've got it, otherwise simply read and learn. And if you don't think there's anything here worth learning, there are plenty of other forums out there.
 
Teleprion said:
As for the C's conversations Laura, I think we need to remember that this info needs to be take with a grain of salt since usually what they were saying to her spoke of only one possible reality out of many. There are other realities and scenarios we can consider. As for the STO/STS battles...it also could be that just as the weather might represent certain forces and conflicts, certain behaviors and creations by human beings might represent these conflicts as well. Human beings and their creations are not divorced from the natural world.
You are quite correct here in that the C’s channelling work should not be taken as 100% truth, and it is something I am keenly aware of. I tend to be sceptical of most information from any source I come across, unless I can verify it, check it against objective reality and see how it fits so to speak. However the C’s channelling does contain a vast resource of factual information that can be verified and can be seen to fit with objective reality (compared to other channelled sources the percentage of accuracy is astounding), however there is also some noise in there to, and it takes discernment, research and checking, which I believe we all need to do with any new information we receive.

The feeling I got from reading your post was that you had not done this with the information that was readily available on site. Hence you were covering old ground with an opinion that had already been discussed and researched at great length by the many people involved with this site, and as Anart and others have kindly tried to point out for you, the process of doing this can create unwanted noise, and can/will take up people’s time in replying (as I am doing now and other have done before me) and trying to help you understand this. For example, there are many subject headings on the forum which take my interest, and which I try to read up on and understand more fully, but I don’t regularly post on these subjects, as I know I need to research and understand them more, before trying to post as I would likely just be covering old ground and having ideas that have already been discussed. Therefore I keep my opinions and thoughts to myself a great deal, until I can come to a clearer and more collinear understanding with those on the site, for without having a collinear outlook on many of the subjects, I would simply be creating unintentional noise that would only distract people from moving forward their understating of said subjects.

The other realities and scenarios you mention have in the most part have been considered and talked about on site and have born no fruit, and would seem to have little resemblance to objective reality and are instead subjective opinions which cannot be backed up or verified. You are correct that behaviours and creations of the human race do have an effect on the natural world, such as the nuclear weapons used to create a neutral cavity in the upper atmosphere in the middle of the last century, and the use of HAARP for mind control/influence is likely affecting the natural world of which we are a part. However without information we can use to search further and data to confirm/refute or form a reasonable hypothesis that fits with objective reality, I personally would consign such ideas to the realm of my own subjective opinions and thoughts. This is quite clearly what you seem to be doing when you say:

teleprion said:
I don't understand though, if HAARP can supposedly control peoples minds, how is it such a leap to imagine that it can also control the weather?
That is quite a leap from mind control, to weather manipulation, and without doing the proper research or presenting data and information to show where your coming from, it is hard to grok how you can make such a leap. I believe this is the crux of what Anart is trying to convey to you, that you are somewhat leaping without looking, as you have done in the above sentence. This results in posting based on your imagination and opinion, rather than basing a hypothesis or idea on data, research and observation. I know I sometimes do this, and try to work and self observe towards cutting out any noise I may add to the forum. So you are not alone in needing to self observe more and continue to read and research before posting more, I need to do this also and work on it everyday.

Good luck with any further research you do on the subject of HAARP and climate change.
 
anart said:
And Dr. Suess published a book entitled 'Oh The Places You'll Go' --- --- --- ---.

In short, 'so'? Who is Dr. Bertell? What are her credentials? What other work has she done, with whom is she affiliated? What hard data does she supply? What is her agenda? Or - do you just believe everything you read?
If you are interested, you can find Dr. Rosalie Bertell's credentials and information about her "agenda" here -

_http://www.iicph.org/docs/cv_rosalie_bertell.htm
_http://www.ccnr.org/bertell_bio.html

She is widely published and is far from the caliber of Dr. Suess lol, her theories merit at least some consideration. Her book is fascinating, and for anyone interested in the topic of environmental changes it makes for enlightening reading. As usual, and as with anything, her conclusions and hypothesis need to be taken with a grain of salt and additional research. In particular it would behoove anyone interested in learning about HAARP to do some research into the nature of the earth's ionosphere.

Excerpt from the review of 'Planet Earth: The Latest Weapon of War' found here - _http://www.nuclearfreenz.org.nz/planetearth.htm

Moyra Bremner said:
Links to earthquakes and freak weather

----- For example, in 1977 a freak storm which devastated a small town in Wisconsin and destroyed 350 hectares of forest, followed hot on the heels of a government ELF wave experiment. While The Bulletin of the Atomic Scientist reported that an ELF wave transmitter lay right in the middle of another storm which brought down 150 - 200 times more rain than normal. These links are more than purely circumstantial, for she says that weather modification is on the US air force agenda, and in 1992 the Russians told the Wall Street Journal they could already achieve it. And the Wisconsin storm offers what looks very much like direct evidence.
----- The question is, does anyone have the wisdom to control weather wisely, and unselfishly? And do they even begin to understand the potential for unexpected side-affects from all these experiments. As she points out, it is since the inception of Star Wars experiments that El Nino has changed its cycle and become far more severe with devastating effects.
----- Equally, a Soviet experiment with the ionosphere directly preceded an earthquake in China which killed 650,000 people. While in America ELF - type waves were detected immediately before a San Francisco earthquake in 1989, and unnatural and unexplained low frequency waves were detected before earthquakes in Japan and California in 1989, and before an earthquake in Los Angeles in 1994. We can only wonder whether such ELF waves preceded the recent earthquakes in El Salvador and India this year, and whether the carnage has been caused by 'security experiments' by one of the 'great powers'.
----- What is certain, as Dr Bertell shows, is that, globally, the number of earthquakes a year has more than doubled since the inception of military experiments which affect the earth and its atmosphere. Even this could, of course, be mere coincidence but another fact suggests something unusual is going on. Inexplicably, an earthquake in Bolivia in 1994 originated 600km below the earth's surface - 24 times deeper than normal.
----- However, even if no such disasters can be laid at the door of the world's military, weapons which interfere with the atmosphere violate the 1976 Environment Modification Convention. Yet, she tells us that in January 1991, despite America having signed that convention, the White House waived the requirement for actions by the Pentagon to be assessed for environmental impact. However, America and Russia are not alone in possessing such weapons. Her revelations of 30 years of military innovations show that Britain, Germany and NATO have all been involved in military developments which show a cavalier disregard for life on earth.
----- Dr Bertell is perhaps one of the few people in the world who could write this book. As leader of medical commissions to both Bhopal and Chernobyl she is skilled in unearthing facts from beneath mountains of dis-information - accurately scooping the world's media, on the truth about depleted uranium weapons, by more than a year. As a nun dedicated to serving in the world she does not shrink from the unpopularity accorded a messenger. And her standing as a scientist, personal integrity, and evidence of meticulous research, challenge any yearning to disbelieve her.
----- A long-standing opponent of nuclear weapons, she sees today's military research as a 'cancer of the body politic' consuming human, financial, and natural resources which are desperately needed elsewhere. 'I would liken society's dependence on the military to a family in which one partner is addicted to something and claims a large proportion of money for feeding the addiction'. As she points out, the billions annexed by defence projects create the very deprivation which eventually fosters war. Moreover, she says military research sequesters many top scientists, 'This "brain drain" from the civilian economy may be depriving us of those who could resolve the most serious survival problems now facing the biosphere'.
----- This is not a comfortable, or easy, book and needs to be chewed slowly, in small helpings. Yet it is well worth chewing and her overall message is one of hope. She says we need to redefine the militaristic word 'security' to mean 'the protection and responsible stewardship of the Earth' - and redirect former military expenditure towards conflict resolution, social justice and sustainable living. A change which, she believes, can be achieved through active citizenship, global co-operation, information exchange between caring people and organisations, and the kind of peaceful pressure which, in 1996, led to the International Court of Justice declaring the use of nuclear weapons unlawful.
----- She concludes:
----- 'I hope this book has given readers some inspiration as to how the might become involved in helping this peaceful planet evolve to its full potential. Despite years of abuse, it is still an amazing and beautiful creation. It deserves our best efforts. Enjoy it, love it, and save it'.
----- There she is wrong. It is not the planet which may die: it is us. It is ourselves we must love enough to cherish the miraculous web of life which radiates from the earth's core to the farthest limits of our universe.

Other Reviews:
_http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/ubb/Forum5/HTML/000229.html
_http://www.iicph.org/planet_earth.htm
Appollynon said:
...and it takes discernment, research and checking, which I believe we all need to do with any new information we receive.
Yes I completely agree with you on this 100% - we should not simply swallow down information simply because it complements our preexisting world view, we always need to do additional research for ourselves.
 
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