Good-bye and good riddance

[astrozombie]

I feel that it is time that I leave this forum. I do so with quite a bit more sadness than I thought I was actually going to feel. I have seen the systemic putdown of many people here who seem to be knowledgeable in the many other paths are offered for us to seek and develop spiritual growth and development. One such person is Sitting, though there are quite a few more. Sitting, has shown that he does have a very good understanding of the works of Castaneda (which has since been determined to be all but certain fiction) yet even though he demonstrates his knowledge clearly he is promoted as a wannabe master.

I cringe when I read a post from someone whom is almost certainly very intelligent and well studied in many disciplines. The responses that follow are almost always degrading and offer very little in the form of spiritual growth. While I understand that forum promotes A Work that follows the teaching of many great philosophers such as Gujedarion and others. The problem is that I am already well versed and have more than a working man's understanding of their teachings. What this means is that I am clearly seeing that their teachings are being warped and cherry-picked to tailor the agenda of the forums hierarchy.

Not only is that demeaning to the great works that such men have accomplished, it suggests an agenda. I joined and made it clear that I have come across some of the many great understandings that this very forum is promoting. Only I have come across the teachings in a completely different manner.

Since it was made very clear to me early on, that my particular path was not welcome, a red flag was raised and it was flapping violently in the wind. Why would people from a forum who promote the very same knowledge have an aversion to someone who has reached many of the same conclusions but only though different manners. The only thing that I can reasonably think is that much of what is being taught here is fraudulent. This indicates to me that the hierarchy running this show are well aware that their teachings can not be verified in any other manner since everything they are saying and teachings are outright lies. In other words, someone who claims to have a real ability to tap into these phenomenon also have the ability to see this. In or short, this was a direct threat.

I an bring this next piece of information up with some reluctance but I think it is relevant. I have made a couple of attempts to help and offered to buy the people of this forum the suggested reading material as well as some of the more expensive reading material in an attempt to make these books available to all the members who are serious in their Work. Instead, I was directed to the donation button at the top of the screen. I have no problem spending a great deal of money for the betterment of this community but when I am basically told that all I need to do is make a monetary donations that will not allow me to follow my money and see the direct impact of its contributing, a red flag goes up as well.

People, I will fall short from calling this path a cult but the signs are there for anyone who can still think with any independence. Group consensus and approval of a concept or theory is the farthest thing away from making something an objective truth. All it means it that there is widespread delusion.

I joined here with an open mind and intended on becoming a very valuable member. If not with my personal insight then with my pocketbook. But I will not make blind donations that can not be proven to me that the donations are benefiting the community at large. Sure, the argument that the donations help to keep the forum operating and thus spreading the message but I envisioned a plan that would allow me to directly help the members that were doing the necessary Work. Stuff like help paying a mortgage bill when someone is a bad need or perhaps buying the grocery for a family in need. I was not interested in anyone's personal info. All I wanted to know is that my donations were going to those who were in direct need. Can anyone give an example where Laura and company have used their earnings and donation to help out a single member of the "family"

I can only Imagine is that this message will be deemed as proof that I am a psychopath with delusions of grandeur. That is your prerogative to think such things but that doesn't make them truth.

I have no ides how short the life spam of this post will have before it is deleted so please read it soon. I see many good and kind hearted people here who want nothing more than to do the right thing. You are the ones that muss listen to your conscious.

I am listening to mine. I will miss the interactions that i have had with of the great minds here. Good luck to all of you. I know that the majority of the members here are very kind and were practicing STO before the catchy little phrase caught on.

 

[MakeEmTalk]

Hi astro,

This is the first post I've seen from you, so I don't know what your history here has been.

Some of your post jumped out at me, and I felt the need to respond. Please forgive me if I'm way off base.

I notice that you mentioned donating, buying books, providing financial assistance to the needy. These are certainly commendable goals, and I would hope you follow through with that when the opportunity arises.

I don't see how one could determine need through an internet forum. There is simply no means of verifying the truthfulness of anything that anybody says on the internet, hence most folks keep others at 'keyboard's length'. I suspect that if you were to provide economic assistance through the internet, at the end you would be poorer, and those that you thought you were helping would be no better off.

In my experience, and I do know just how callous this sounds, if you give somebody something, (books for instance), for free, that is the exact value that becomes fixed in their mind of that item. If they have to make effort to receive that item, it then has value commensurate with the effort needed to acquire it.

Speaking strictly for myself, I'm here not for material assistance, but to further define the intangibles of life. I don't in any way expect anything material from this site, and I would gaze in wonderment at anyone that mistook this site for a source of material assistance.

Charity begins at home, where you can observe the truthfulness of the need with your own eyes.

Whether this site otherwise meets your expectations, only you can make that decision. I wish you well, whatever your choice.

 

[astrozombie]

I was referring to a little program that I wanted to help set up. After reading through the many posts, I became aawre that many people simply can't afford all the literature that is considered required reading.

I wanted to buy a bunch of these copies personally and sent them to the admins and mods so that they could dispense them on a case by case business. I wanted to do this anonymously. I was told that a similar program was already in place and that I could just simply donate my money if I wanted to help.

The problem with that is that I could not find the evidence of the program but in their defense, Laura does offer many of her books free online.

I just understand the importance of having your very own copy that you can refer to time and time again.

I also wanted to buy some of the vary rare and thus expensive books and then send them to the admins so that they could be lent out on a case by case basis. I would of course relinquish all rights to ownership. Again, just donate was the response. I like to know that my donations are directly benefiting the member and not the shot callers, so to say.

I was even considering setting up a trust for families that need a little temporary help. But there was nothing I could find that gave me any comfort that such an endeavor would work out as intended.

 

[irjO]

I feel that it is time that I leave this forum. I do so with quite a bit more sadness than I thought I was actually going to feel. I have seen the systemic putdown of many people here who seem to be knowledgeable in the many other paths are offered for us to seek and develop spiritual growth and development. One such person is Sitting, though there are quite a few more. Sitting, has shown that he does have a very good understanding of the works of Castaneda (which has since been determined to be all but certain fiction) yet even though he demonstrates his knowledge clearly he is promoted as a wannabe master.

Every person here in this forum has their own journey! which mean that everybody (more 'knowledgeable' or not) has different lessons, if they stay or leave that is their choice, not all of them leave the forum because they don't agree with what we do.. sometimes a person leave the forum because has different problems with their own life and can't keep with the work.

I cringe when I read a post from someone whom is almost certainly very intelligent and well studied in many disciplines. The responses that follow are almost always degrading and offer very little in the form of spiritual growth.

what you mean by "degrading" its subjective, maybe you take the responses that way but here we try to be the more objective possible so in that way we shut down the noise and can help and offer a better mirror or opinion, when a comment doesn't comfort you maybe a program or system in you is acting against that.. for example for you an objective response could be a rude attitude for others could be not (which in reality it is not) i can not deny that i've seen some hardness in many responses but sometimes a shock (in some way) is need it for that particular person in that particular moment to see things a little bit different.

While I understand that forum promotes A Work that follows the teaching of many great philosophers such as Gujedarion and others. The problem is that I am already well versed and have more than a working man's understanding of their teachings. What this means is that I am clearly seeing that their teachings are being warped and cherry-picked to tailor the agenda of the forums hierarchy.

that is a very big assumption of your part, in what way do you see a teaching been used by a member in a 'hierarchical' way? could you clarify? (maybe i understood incorrectly)

Only I have come across the teachings in a completely different manner.

ok you could explain what is different or in what way do you see different the teachings..

Since it was made very clear to me early on, that my particular path was not welcome, a red flag was raised and it was flapping violently in the wind. Why would people from a forum who promote the very same knowledge have an aversion to someone who has reached many of the same conclusions but only though different manners. The only thing that I can reasonably think is that much of what is being taught here is fraudulent. This indicates to me that the hierarchy running this show are well aware that their teachings can not be verified in any other manner since everything they are saying and teachings are outright lies. In other words, someone who claims to have a real ability to tap into these phenomenon also have the ability to see this. In or short, this was a direct threat.

again see my second response.. there is any hierarchy.. sometimes when someone enters the forum in a very close mind position and trying to impose their way of thinking, obviously you are not going to get the responses you want. we work in a very open way (referent to subjects) but like every other forum: with rules

I have no problem spending a great deal of money for the betterment of this community but when I am basically told that all I need to do is make a monetary donations that will not allow me to follow my money and see the direct impact of its contributing, a red flag goes up as well.

so basically you haven't done your research very well.. Laura and the crew do more than maintain this forum, of course the forum is a very important part of the community, but you have to add the sott page, the creation and publishing of the books, the activities they do for the FOTCM and the maintain of the place where they do the work to keep the things going etc.. i could understand that you are not a member of the FOTCM and you can't find out all the projects that are underway (like scheduling meetings with the members and other projects that demands a lot of money)

People, I will fall short from calling this path a cult but the signs are there for anyone who can still think with any independence. Group consensus and approval of a concept or theory is the farthest thing away from making something an objective truth. All it means it that there is widespread delusion.

So you are calling this forum a cult because you are not sure where the donations goes? oh my... do a little research of what a real cult is!

I joined here with an open mind and intended on becoming a very valuable member. If not with my personal insight then with my pocketbook. But I will not make blind donations that can not be proven to me that the donations are benefiting the community at large. Sure, the argument that the donations help to keep the forum operating and thus spreading the message but I envisioned a plan that would allow me to directly help the members that were doing the necessary Work. Stuff like help paying a mortgage bill when someone is a bad need or perhaps buying the grocery for a family in need. I was not interested in anyone's personal info. All I wanted to know is that my donations were going to those who were in direct need. Can anyone give an example where Laura and company have used their earnings and donation to help out a single member of the "family"

No one is forcing you to make a donation.. do it only if you want and whatever you want to donate! you don't have to accuse anyone because a doubt you have about the donations... you could star by simply asking where do the donations goes? and thats it! i will share something with you: i can tell you that i have no money to get the books of laura's work, and she sent them to me for free and i'm very grateful for that.. if it were not for the donations, she would not been able to send me the books so..

I can only Imagine is that this message will be deemed as proof that I am a psychopath with delusions of grandeur. That is your prerogative to think such things but that doesn't make them truth.

so if you are thinking that we are going to react in that way.. its up to you! we simple answer in a very objective way.. as i said before rather you like it or not! but you are demonstrating that the teachings you are suppose to be following in your own way are not working at all.. or you simple don't really understand them..

I am listening to mine. I will miss the interactions that i have had with of the great minds here. Good luck to all of you. I know that the majority of the members here are very kind and were practicing STO before the catchy little phrase caught on.

Again this is a free will universe.. but try to think of everything as a lesson too! maybe in some way it is good that you share this feeling so it could be a step for you and others to see things different reading this discussion?

 

[Mr. Premise]

I was referring to a little program that I wanted to help set up. After reading through the many posts, I became aawre that many people simply can't afford all the literature that is considered required reading.

I wanted to buy a bunch of these copies personally and sent them to the admins and mods so that they could dispense them on a case by case business. I wanted to do this anonymously. I was told that a similar program was already in place and that I could just simply donate my money if I wanted to help.

The problem with that is that I could not find the evidence of the program but in their defense, Laura does offer many of her books free online.

I just understand the importance of having your very own copy that you can refer to time and time again.

I also wanted to buy some of the vary rare and thus expensive books and then send them to the admins so that they could be lent out on a case by case basis. I would of course relinquish all rights to ownership. Again, just donate was the response. I like to know that my donations are directly benefiting the member and not the shot callers, so to say.

I was even considering setting up a trust for families that need a little temporary help. But there was nothing I could find that gave me any comfort that such an endeavor would work out as intended.

First, I'm sure lots of members will chime in that Laura sent books (and funds, and supplements, etc.) to. I know it's happened a lot. And I know that the "shot callers" as you call them live very frugally, so in non-profit terms the Fellowship is exemplary. But you haven't seen it, but then you've only been here a month! And that's not a criticism, there is no reason why you, after a month, should trust the Fellowship, or the "shot callers" with a lot of your money. It's premature, really. So it's a little odd that after one month, you make such a generous offer, and then quickly turn sour on the Forum and how it's run. Do you often run hot and cold like that? Just curious.

It also makes me wonder what your real motivations are for such generosity, besides generosity? Do you think a part of you wants recognition, special status or something? A named endowment? I'm not being snide here, either, such things are natural, especially with philanthropy.

 

[Lisa Guliani]

Astrozombie: "Can anyone give an example where Laura and company have used their earnings and donation to help out a single member of the "family"

I can. I am an example of how "Laura and company" have used 'earnings and donations' to help out a single member of the family.

The members of this forum, FOTCM, have helped me more than once over the last 7 years. In fact, this forum has helped me to stay alive, literally. First, several years ago by literally rescuing me from a sadistic narcissist, transporting me to safety, providing me with money for food and a place to stay.

Then, this year, beginning on January 7th, my health took a sudden and significant downward spiral.
I was very ill, living in a mold-contaminated environment, and suffering from cardiovascular and thyroid problems and mold contamination myself, to the point that I was, well, dying.

I am convinced that if not for the swift and caring intervention of "Laura and Company" - the members of THIS forum you choose to mischaracterize and denigrate, that I would not be here today, in much better, improved health, out of danger, and well on the road to recovery.

If this forum is not for you, Astrozombie, so be it. That is your choice.
But I heartily disagree with you, based upon my own direct personal experience in receiving a tremendous amount of direct assistance from this network, and I know I am not alone in this regard.

If not for Laura Knight-Jadczyk, the rest of the Chateau Crew, and the caring members of this forum, I think it's very reasonable, justifiable and accurate to say (again) that I might not be alive today.

I am your requested example.

 

[MakeEmTalk]

I was referring to a little program that I wanted to help set up. After reading through the many posts, I became aawre that many people simply can't afford all the literature that is considered required reading.

I wanted to buy a bunch of these copies personally and sent them to the admins and mods so that they could dispense them on a case by case business. I wanted to do this anonymously. I was told that a similar program was already in place and that I could just simply donate my money if I wanted to help.

The problem with that is that I could not find the evidence of the program but in their defense, Laura does offer many of her books free online.

I just understand the importance of having your very own copy that you can refer to time and time again.

I also wanted to buy some of the vary rare and thus expensive books and then send them to the admins so that they could be lent out on a case by case basis. I would of course relinquish all rights to ownership. Again, just donate was the response. I like to know that my donations are directly benefiting the member and not the shot callers, so to say.

I was even considering setting up a trust for families that need a little temporary help. But there was nothing I could find that gave me any comfort that such an endeavor would work out as intended.

I understand the quandary.....

Kinda sounds like you want to know how your gift is being used......

Kinda sounds like they're saying just make the gift....

A gift leaves your sphere of control at the moment you give it. You therefore need to let go of any expectations around that gift when you give it. It becomes someone else's property to use as they see fit. If you give a fancy punchbowl as a wedding gift, with visions of fancy parties being hosted by the bride & groom, with 'your' punchbowl at the center, I guarantee your expectations will set you up for a fall, when you next encounter the punchbowl and it's being used as the dog's water bowl.

If you were to let go of any expectations, it would be okay simply to see that they had found a use for it.

So, I guess consider the appropriateness of the gift to the recipient vs. your visualized expectations of it's use, & proceed accordingly. You sound like donating books/materials is not going to be satisfying, and in fact will build animosity.

Can't you instead donate to website operation, which you can see would deliver tangible results, because the results are right in front of your eyes, right now. (And no, I'm not in any way affiliated with this website, except as a fellow member.) I'm betting that better funding for the website would in turn free up more funding for materials.

As you said, a lot of what Laura produces is already provided for free...... Through a website, perhaps?

 

[ggen]

I feel that it is time that I leave this forum. I do so with quite a bit more sadness than I thought I was actually going to feel. I have seen the systemic putdown of many people here who seem to be knowledgeable in the many other paths are offered for us to seek and develop spiritual growth and development. One such person is Sitting, though there are quite a few more. Sitting, has shown that he does have a very good understanding of the works of Castaneda (which has since been determined to be all but certain fiction) yet even though he demonstrates his knowledge clearly he is promoted as a wannabe master.

Could it be that you were seeing yourself in sitting? You came to the forum all gung-ho and 'knowledgeable' about OOBE's/astral projection and the forum dedicated much time trying to get you to see them for what they were. Now sitting is undergoing a similar process. (mirror)

I cringe when I read a post from someone whom is almost certainly very intelligent and well studied in many disciplines. The responses that follow are almost always degrading and offer very little in the form of spiritual growth. While I understand that forum promotes A Work that follows the teaching of many great philosophers such as Gujedarion and others. The problem is that I am already well versed and have more than a working man's understanding of their teachings. What this means is that I am clearly seeing that their teachings are being warped and cherry-picked to tailor the agenda of the forums hierarchy.

How do you reconcile what you just said above with what you posted in 'The Mirror' thread? You are "well versed and have more than the working man's understanding" but on the flip side, ..."not for a newbie who is unfamiliar with the process as defined here." Could you have been posturing when you proclaimed to be "well versed"? Also, it seems YOU are cherry picking.

"After reading through this, I can't believe that I actually asked for this in one of my first posts. I did so out of ignorance that it was a real tool used here and was reserved for only those who have put in enough Work and have proven themselves (at least at face value) to be ready for it.

It is certainly not for a newbie who is unfamiliar with the process as defined here."

Not only is that demeaning to the great works that such men have accomplished, it suggests an agenda. I joined and made it clear that I have come across some of the many great understandings that this very forum is promoting. Only I have come across the teachings in a completely different manner.

Perhaps the teachings you came across were NOT similar to those practiced here?

I an bring this next piece of information up with some reluctance but I think it is relevant. I have made a couple of attempts to help and offered to buy the people of this forum the suggested reading material as well as some of the more expensive reading material in an attempt to make these books available to all the members who are serious in their Work. Instead, I was directed to the donation button at the top of the screen. I have no problem spending a great deal of money for the betterment of this community but when I am basically told that all I need to do is make a monetary donations that will not allow me to follow my money and see the direct impact of its contributing, a red flag goes up as well.

People, I will fall short from calling this path a cult but the signs are there for anyone who can still think with any independence. Group consensus and approval of a concept or theory is the farthest thing away from making something an objective truth. All it means it that there is widespread delusion.

I joined here with an open mind and intended on becoming a very valuable member. If not with my personal insight then with my pocketbook. But I will not make blind donations that can not be proven to me that the donations are benefiting the community at large. Sure, the argument that the donations help to keep the forum operating and thus spreading the message but I envisioned a plan that would allow me to directly help the members that were doing the necessary Work. Stuff like help paying a mortgage bill when someone is a bad need or perhaps buying the grocery for a family in need. I was not interested in anyone's personal info. All I wanted to know is that my donations were going to those who were in direct need. Can anyone give an example where Laura and company have used their earnings and donation to help out a single member of the "family".

As Mr. Premise said, I'm sure many people will chime in with their stories of donations from SOTT and QFG. There are two threads that come to my mind where you can find out for your self who's been given what assistance. There is quite a bit of understanding, empathy, AND material assistance found there.
http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,31459.0.html
and
http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,30168.0.html

I can only Imagine is that this message will be deemed as proof that I am a psychopath with delusions of grandeur. That is your prerogative to think such things but that doesn't make them truth.

I have no ides how short the life spam of this post will have before it is deleted so please read it soon. I see many good and kind hearted people here who want nothing more than to do the right thing. You are the ones that muss listen to your conscious.

I am listening to mine. I will miss the interactions that i have had with of the great minds here. Good luck to all of you. I know that the majority of the members here are very kind and were practicing STO before the catchy little phrase caught on.

Before throwing around the words "cult" and "hierarchy" and pitching a fit about donations, perhaps you should read more and post less. If you had read more instead of trying to 'prove something', you wouldn't have felt the need to type this good riddance letter.

EDIT: Clarity and 1 sentence. MODS: I apologize for the quote boxes. I'm still learning!

[mod: quote fixed]

 

[Approaching Infinity]

I was even considering setting up a trust for families that need a little temporary help. But there was nothing I could find that gave me any comfort that such an endeavor would work out as intended.

Did you ask? Well, now that you have (after the fact), you've already had some responses from people who have directly benefited in exactly the ways you were proposing to help. And there are many more on this forum who haven't come forward who have been supported financially and materially, e.g., with supplements, household goods, books, and more. (I personally have a job thanks to this group.) Unfortunately this confirmation comes after you have made numerous erroneous assumptions about what we actually do here. Yes, systems are already in place to do the things you proposed. That was not a lie or evasion, simply the truth, as members can testify.

What matters is results, not intentions. In this case, it might help to ask yourself, "what are my results here?" If your results don't measure up, that can be the catalyst for growth: figuring out how to get better results. Maybe it would've been better to first actually do the research, see the many ways in which members of this forum HAVE benefited from donations, and then acted accordingly. But instead, it looks to me as if your own expectations and assumptions got in the way of your actually helping. In short, you took things personally when there was no cause for such a reaction. Normal, but not ideal (at least not for members here, who are working on themselves).

 

[Lisa Guliani]

Astrozombie: "I can only Imagine is that this message will be deemed as proof that I am a psychopath with delusions of grandeur."

No, I deem it as proof that you simply don't know what you're talking about.

 

[Lisa Guliani]

Astrozombie: "I was referring to a little program that I wanted to help set up. After reading through the many posts, I became aawre that many people simply can't afford all the literature that is considered required reading.

I wanted to buy a bunch of these copies personally and sent them to the admins and mods so that they could dispense them on a case by case business. I wanted to do this anonymously. I was told that a similar program was already in place and that I could just simply donate my money if I wanted to help."

Astrozombie, I have personally received several books that have been donated to me by - using your own words - 'Laura and company'. These books were sent to me to educate me on detoxification, diet, probable health issues underlying my cardiovascular and thyroid issues and well-researched treatment modalities, and also a few sent to me so I could continue to further my knowledge base and understanding of other aspects of the Work, other than the importance of the diet aspect.
So, when you were told that a system for disseminating books to those who cannot afford the recommended literature is already in place, nobody lied to you.
There IS a system, a very effective, well-organized system, and it has and continues to benefit many forum members who don't have the monetary resources to purchase these books themselves. I have also received MANY supplements to boost my overall health and brain function, as I may have suffered a mini-stroke back in January.

Again, I am your requested example in this regard, among others, as well.

 

[NewOrleans]

Astrozombie,
I, too, am an outsider - in more ways than one - so I hear what you're saying, but I assure you it does get better the longer you stick around. No one is asking you to join a cult, just the opposite. Question everything. There's multiplicity of people here, all coming from different circumstances. The mutual goal is to help each other learn lessons. Tough responses, but it's never cruel. And sometimes the medicine we each need IS bitter. It's the Work and that's a tough kind of self-examination we undertake. Expectations , sometimes, we need to leave at the door, like muddy shoes. Have patience. We heal and learn.

I'm certainly not here to tell you to stay or go, but to pause a moment. There's some good souls here. Have a smoke, take a breather and you're always welcome to return.. ....speaking only for myself here, mind you.

 

[Lisa Guliani]

Imo, the only 'C' words that genuinely apply to this forum are: CARING COMMUNITY.

 

[Lan8r]

But, you never even ASKED. You claim to be in a position to offer help as you see fit, and did not even communicate that desire before jumping to your own conclusions? Personally, in my opinion, this forum does not owe you any examples of it's generosity to those in need for the simple reason that you did not ask. But, funny how you accuse, then sit back as if you are expecting this group to 'defend' itself. That is strange behavior in my opinion. Seriously, have you donated anything yet?

All it would take is a simple question (as apposed to an accusatory post) to receive any answers you would need to feel comfortable contributing to any individual needs. If, in fact, that was your intention. It just does not make any sense to me that someone who was in a position to, and truly wished to help others, would not have posed these questions before making accusations.

But, then again, I have witnessed how the people of this forum have not only donated for the general benefit of SOTT and the Forum, but also have bent over backwards to help with the individual needs of the members over the years. And that may not necessarily be apparent to someone who has only been around for a month or so.

 

[Sol Logos]

I feel that it is time that I leave this forum. I do so with quite a bit more sadness than I thought I was actually going to feel. I have seen the systemic putdown of many people here who seem to be knowledgeable in the many other paths are offered for us to seek and develop spiritual growth and development. One such person is Sitting, though there are quite a few more. Sitting, has shown that he does have a very good understanding of the works of Castaneda (which has since been determined to be all but certain fiction) yet even though he demonstrates his knowledge clearly he is promoted as a wannabe master.

I cringe when I read a post from someone whom is almost certainly very intelligent and well studied in many disciplines. The responses that follow are almost always degrading and offer very little in the form of spiritual growth. While I understand that forum promotes A Work that follows the teaching of many great philosophers such as Gujedarion and others. The problem is that I am already well versed and have more than a working man's understanding of their teachings. What this means is that I am clearly seeing that their teachings are being warped and cherry-picked to tailor the agenda of the forums hierarchy.

Not only is that demeaning to the great works that such men have accomplished, it suggests an agenda. I joined and made it clear that I have come across some of the many great understandings that this very forum is promoting. Only I have come across the teachings in a completely different manner.

Since it was made very clear to me early on, that my particular path was not welcome, a red flag was raised and it was flapping violently in the wind. Why would people from a forum who promote the very same knowledge have an aversion to someone who has reached many of the same conclusions but only though different manners. The only thing that I can reasonably think is that much of what is being taught here is fraudulent. This indicates to me that the hierarchy running this show are well aware that their teachings can not be verified in any other manner since everything they are saying and teachings are outright lies. In other words, someone who claims to have a real ability to tap into these phenomenon also have the ability to see this. In or short, this was a direct threat.

I an bring this next piece of information up with some reluctance but I think it is relevant. I have made a couple of attempts to help and offered to buy the people of this forum the suggested reading material as well as some of the more expensive reading material in an attempt to make these books available to all the members who are serious in their Work. Instead, I was directed to the donation button at the top of the screen. I have no problem spending a great deal of money for the betterment of this community but when I am basically told that all I need to do is make a monetary donations that will not allow me to follow my money and see the direct impact of its contributing, a red flag goes up as well.

People, I will fall short from calling this path a cult but the signs are there for anyone who can still think with any independence. Group consensus and approval of a concept or theory is the farthest thing away from making something an objective truth. All it means it that there is widespread delusion.

I joined here with an open mind and intended on becoming a very valuable member. If not with my personal insight then with my pocketbook. But I will not make blind donations that can not be proven to me that the donations are benefiting the community at large. Sure, the argument that the donations help to keep the forum operating and thus spreading the message but I envisioned a plan that would allow me to directly help the members that were doing the necessary Work. Stuff like help paying a mortgage bill when someone is a bad need or perhaps buying the grocery for a family in need. I was not interested in anyone's personal info. All I wanted to know is that my donations were going to those who were in direct need. Can anyone give an example where Laura and company have used their earnings and donation to help out a single member of the "family"

I can only Imagine is that this message will be deemed as proof that I am a psychopath with delusions of grandeur. That is your prerogative to think such things but that doesn't make them truth.

I have no ides how short the life spam of this post will have before it is deleted so please read it soon. I see many good and kind hearted people here who want nothing more than to do the right thing. You are the ones that muss listen to your conscious.

I am listening to mine. I will miss the interactions that i have had with of the great minds here. Good luck to all of you. I know that the majority of the members here are very kind and were practicing STO before the catchy little phrase caught on.

Astrozombie, there's a chink in your armour, perhaps a hole, and it's actually a really incredible gift that you might find those who see it and tell you about it. Not many people would, not many people actually give others the benefit of the doubt or have faith enough in others that doing so would be worth their time and effort. There has to be generosity of spirit to do that, and to find that is like finding gold. Proclaiming good riddance to that, and storming out in a huff, what does this say about the value of all your knowledge? If it can't be applied to help yourself, is it worth clinging to? I'd say no, it's not.

I know you say you came here with an open mind but you'd have to wonder at least to yourself, how is it you're leaving disappointed? A person gets disappointed when expectations aren't met. What were those expectations? Are they helping you grow as a person? I truly hope you can reflect a little on that and I wish you well wherever you go. Good luck on your journey friend. Take care.