Gurdjieff's Alarm Clocks

[luke wilson]

practice ee

I am now regularly practising EE, the truth is, laziness and opportunity stopped me before. Infact I am fresh of practising the EE programme right now. Regarding EE, I have always done it without noticing, with eyes closed, I dont remember reading anywhere a reference to how ones eyes should be. Is closed ok? Is it ok to try it open aswell?

Added: Just read your last post. To lurk isn't the answer. It's two side of the same coin. Lurking is safe for you because you feel hurt and want to hide. What will help is practice. That's the only way to get around this. Just practice. Maybe give yourself a limit of 2 or 3 paragraphs (a few sentences each) for each post. I think this will give you some boundaries to start off with. Try it for a month. What do you think? Smiley

Ok I will try 2 to 3 short paragraph limit for awhile.

I appreciate the gifts this forum and everything else related to it has to offer. You dont have to remind me of its value. I am well aware of it. Maybe my actions portray to the contrary but that is not my intent.

 

[Mr. Premise]

practice ee

I am now regularly practising EE, the truth is, laziness and opportunity stopped me before. Infact I am fresh of practising the EE programme right now. Regarding EE, I have always done it without noticing, with eyes closed, I dont remember reading anywhere a reference to how ones eyes should be. Is closed ok? Is it ok to try it open aswell?

Added: Just read your last post. To lurk isn't the answer. It's two side of the same coin. Lurking is safe for you because you feel hurt and want to hide. What will help is practice. That's the only way to get around this. Just practice. Maybe give yourself a limit of 2 or 3 paragraphs (a few sentences each) for each post. I think this will give you some boundaries to start off with. Try it for a month. What do you think? Smiley

Ok I will try 2 to 3 short paragraph limit for awhile.

I appreciate the gifts this forum and everything else related to it has to offer. You dont have to remind me of its value. I am well aware of it. Maybe my actions portray to the contrary but that is not my intent.

Luke, I believe you were asked to not post at all for a while while you do EE and get your diet straightened out. Lots of attention grabbing posts of three short paragraphs or less is not the answer for you.

You mentioned some people like to talk a lot. That's true. Usually in the Work, those people need to focus on talking less and those who are shy and quiet need to focus on talking more.

Just letting your horses run wild will not help you, nor is whining about how you are being mistreated. It seems that you not only want attention but you also want to control just how that attention takes place.

 

[luke wilson]

My Last Post. Something weird is going on here and I dont know what it is but I know what it means!!

Lots of attention grabbing posts of three short paragraphs or less is not the answer for you.

I didnt say it, I was following truth seekers suggestion - and I didnt say lots. Here

Maybe give yourself a limit of 2 or 3 paragraphs (a few sentences each) for each post. I think this will give you some boundaries to start off with.

She says lurking is hiding away from the predator.

So I said ok.

Now I AM getting the blame, AGAIN! If I said no, I would have been accused of letting the predator win. NO WIN SITUATION. Only valid response, is no response. I finally GET it!

It seems that you not only want attention but you also want to control just how that attention takes place.

I know what this means. BE QUIET! DISAPPEAR! The only valid response OPEN! The universe is speaking LOUD and CLEAR! Not the PREDATOR, but the UNIVERSE! Sign Posts all over the place now it is hard to ignore.

http://dictionary.reverso.net/english-cobuild/attention-grabbing

An attention-grabbing remark or activity is one that is intended to make people notice it.

Now, it is inevitable, as per my understanding that whoever makes a post or makes there presence felt in anyway, is attention grabbing. It is inevitable, even a rock GRABS attention. Like your post right now is grabbing my attention. Now APPARENTLY it is wrong for me to do it. FINE!

I understand!

Please do not respond to my post! I can pretty much guess what you are going to say and what message is being sent across.

I will simply read. That is what I do most of the time anyways. Plus practise this:

You mentioned some people like to talk a lot. That's true. Usually in the Work, those people need to focus on talking less and those who are shy and quiet need to focus on talking more.

Thank you and have a GOOD DAY! I mean that.

For the record, I practise EE and will continue to do so, REGARDLESS of my 'hurt' feelings. As for diet, I will eventually get it right! Let us now end this discussion and restore the world back to its original equilibrium, I believe that is Gurdjieff's Alarm Clocks.

 

[HiThere]

Luke: In my opinion your last reaction is the best way forward. I have found things in your posts to be of use to me, but I can also see where the comments above are coming from. Good luck with your reading! :)

 

[celtic]

Luke I read some of the previous post and I will say this, when you decide to make a post please take the time and think about what you are going to say, and how you are going to say it. And consider the time and length of the post. Before I write and post something I always take atleast 5 minutes or less to make sure what I am saying is clear and logical. I make sure that I am not writing based off of emotions. And I take in consideration everyones thoughts and feelings. if someone gives me advice or feedback, I do not argue with them. I stop and I analyze my behaviour and I take the neccesary steps to change or fix the problem.

 

[Mountain Crown]

Luke,

Take a moment to reflect on what was expressing itself in your last post. No need to respond if you don’t want to.

 

[anart]

I know what this means. BE QUIET! DISAPPEAR! The only valid response OPEN! The universe is speaking LOUD and CLEAR! Not the PREDATOR, but the UNIVERSE! Sign Posts all over the place now it is hard to ignore.

Luke, the above isn't the point, nor is it even vaguely related to the point. For the time being, it is best for you to not post and to continue to read. Pay particular attention to posts concerning mechanical behavior, feeding, signal and noise and re-reading the Depression as a stepping stone thread might help as well. In short, you have a battle to wage and it has nothing to do with anyone other than you.

If you can work to learn to simply observe yourself - for just a moment at first - that will be a huge accomplishment. Just observe. Re-read your previous posts and observe. Don't try to change - not yet - just observe. Then you will have something to work with.

 

[Mr. Premise]

My Last Post. Something weird is going on here and I dont know what it is but I know what it means!!

Lots of attention grabbing posts of three short paragraphs or less is not the answer for you.

I didnt say it, I was following truth seekers suggestion - and I didnt say lots. Here

Maybe give yourself a limit of 2 or 3 paragraphs (a few sentences each) for each post. I think this will give you some boundaries to start off with.

She says lurking is hiding away from the predator.

So I said ok.

Now I AM getting the blame, AGAIN! If I said no, I would have been accused of letting the predator win. NO WIN SITUATION. Only valid response, is no response. I finally GET it!

Luke, I apologize for not being more clear. I should have said that before Truth Seeker's post, you had been advised to hold off a bit on posting while doing EE. Then it seemed to me you were taking your 2 or 3 paragraph advice as a license to post lots 2 or 3 paragraph posts, in essence missing the overall point (slow down, do EE for a while, step back a bit, think about the issues brought up). But I should have been more clear

These emotions you were feeling can be used for growth if, like Anart said, you OBSERVE them. These kinds of things are keys. You might want to think hard about the "BE QUIET, DISAPPEAR!" part you were thinking everyone was saying. No one wants you to disappear or to be quiet, which is the exact reason Truth Seeker wrote what she did. But the fact that you thought we were saying that is really important, I think.

Anart's last post would be a good one for you to keep in mind.

 

[scifiscriptwriter]

... a really informative thread ... and Luke, even though at the mo. it might seem at your expense, I, and prob others, learn a lot about themselves and the myriad of things we all have to work on by reflecting on forum interaction.

I find it helpful to think of the Moderators as being in a big boat in shark infested, rapid flowing waters .... attached to the boat are thousands of long, individual ropes with knots every few inches and attached to the ropes are the people finding their way to this forum (and all that that implies). The Mods., being ahead of us, are shouting, encouraging or berating us to keep awake ... to get to the next knot (lesson) ... therefore nearer the boat. Everyone is working here - those in the boats and those outside. The bottom line is to help those (who want the help, ask for it) to get on the boat ...

 

[Nawd]

I don't see the moderators that way at all. It's just the level of noise vs. signal ratio that counts. It's keeping a level of outward consideration high when posting that matters.

OSIT

... a really informative thread ... and Luke, even though at the mo. it might seem at your expense, I, and prob others, learn a lot about themselves and the myriad of things we all have to work on by reflecting on forum interaction.

I find it helpful to think of the Moderators as being in a big boat in shark infested, rapid flowing waters .... attached to the boat are thousands of long, individual ropes with knots every few inches and attached to the ropes are the people finding their way to this forum (and all that that implies). The Mods., being ahead of us, are shouting, encouraging or berating us to keep awake ... to get to the next knot (lesson) ... therefore nearer the boat. Everyone is working here - those in the boats and those outside. The bottom line is to help those (who want the help, ask for it) to get on the boat ...

 

[Harold]

Hi Luke,

As someone who has been banned from the forum and then was still banned from posting on the forum. I did not post on the forum for 7 months. No harm done. I read and learned allot. :)

I don't see the moderators that way at all. It's just the level of noise vs. signal ratio that counts. It's keeping a level of outward consideration high when posting that matters.

This was a very important lesson (among many) that I learned while I was reading and learning and not posting. I really did not know how the forum functioned, nor did I understand the 'technical jargon' so to speak. It's taking time, I really realize the importance of external consideration and still have quite a ways to go.

So dont give up Luke... here's a visual image that may help you... think of yourself as Donny Brasko, from the movie 'Donny Brasko'. Specifically the de-briefing scene. When Donny arrived back to the FBI home office for de-briefing, he knew he was one of them. But he looked like a Mafioso, dressed like a Mafioso, talked like a Mafioso, he got in a fist fight his first 5 five minutes there and even his wife wanted nothing to do with him. Everyone in the office looked at him funny and were very cold to him. He was a traumatized emotional and mental train wreck. Im not saying that is your case Luke, but the moderators have to take on a sort of 'triage' role and discern what condition we are in when we arrive or while we are here. Protection of the forum is very important, aside form Laura and her family, it comes before us all.

This forum is in a forward position on the battlefield for our minds and maybe even our hearts and souls.

To use the "Front Line", "Battlefield" scenario. Several points to consider. On a front line/forward position, the noise to signal ratio saves lives. It is extremely important to keep quiet so the 'other side' has difficulty identifying your position and gaining intel. When a signal does come in, it may be brief and only once, the less noise the better chance of receiving the signal accurately. In a forward position being economical with ones energy... again... saves lives. A sentry must remain awake at all times. One last thing, observation of the 'other side' is constant. All these points remind me of the 'work' here on the forum and in our daily lives. :)

 

[T.C.]

I'd like to share a recent breakthrough on something that has been kind of an obsession and a block for me going back over the last 12 months. I was going to start a new thread until I realised that this ties in perfectly with G.'s alarm clocks.

The main gist of it is 'regrets'.

Since I woke up and started really trying to Be, and gain as much knowledge as possible, and Work on myself, I started having (what seem to be inevitable) regrets about everything in my life up to this point.

I regret so many things I've done, all the people I've hurt, all the damaging things I've done to my health, and most of all, all the time I've wasted doing these things and many others when I could have been studying and getting myself into a position that would have enabled me to help the universe more than I can at the moment.

So on and off, over the last 12 months, I've had bouts of depression caused by these 'hauntings' from the past. These usually peak with me lying on my bed at night, pleading with the universe to let me go to sleep and wake up on my 8th birthday so that I can 'have a second chance' at life - "I know it's possible, I know you have the power to make this happen. Please, I've wasted my life. Please, let me wake up on my 8th birthday and I won't waste my life this time."

I realised a few days ago that there actually is a way for me to do this... well, sort of; it's self-remembering. (Yeah, it has taken me this long to truly grok the concept!)

If I look back at all of my regrets, then I can learn from each one. So, I regret all the time I've wasted; this hurts so much now that I'm aware of how quickly time flies. So from now on, I don't want to waste another moment! I want to get as much done as I possibly can, while I still can.

Etc.

Feeling the pain of a wasted life acts as a wonderful alarm clock to keep one Working and motivated to make a difference while on still can.

I now realise the futility of my obsession. It would be like going to school and having a history lesson, and afterwards crying about the fact that I didn't know the stuff already, and wishing I could do the lesson again, already having the knowledge!

So, in a way, I CAN relive my life and make amends for all my mistakes, through recapitulation. And then I'll be as close to being now, the person I could've been if I'd not been such a fool.

 

[3DStudent]

I know what you mean about regrets T.C. In the end there is no time, but it's hard to reconcile this with the fact that we are closing a Grand Cycle soon.

So, in a way, I CAN relive my life and make amends for all my mistakes, through recapitulation. And then I'll be as close to being now, the person I could've been if I'd not been such a fool.

Maybe you would be even better than you think you'd have been if you take all of the mistakes and turn them into knowledge. I've wasted years of my life too, and I wouldn't want to go back. It's like in the Matrix, "But if you could go back, would you want to?"

 

[Harold]

I know what you mean about regrets T.C. In the end there is no time, but it's hard to reconcile this with the fact that we are closing a Grand Cycle soon.

So, in a way, I CAN relive my life and make amends for all my mistakes, through recapitulation. And then I'll be as close to being now, the person I could've been if I'd not been such a fool.

Maybe you would be even better than you think you'd have been if you take all of the mistakes and turn them into knowledge. I've wasted years of my life too, and I wouldn't want to go back. It's like in the Matrix, "But if you could go back, would you want to?"

Hello 3D Student and T.C.,

I definitely can echo both of your postings... Thank-you for sharing.

On the forum I have discussed regrets also. I have received some feedback which I will try to remember and look up some of the feedback and share it here.

So on and off, over the last 12 months, I've had bouts of depression caused by these 'hauntings' from the past. These usually peak with me lying on my bed at night, pleading with the universe to let me go to sleep and wake up on my 8th birthday so that I can 'have a second chance' at life - "I know it's possible, I know you have the power to make this happen. Please, I've wasted my life. Please, let me wake up on my 8th birthday and I won't waste my life this time."

If I look back at all of my regrets, then I can learn from each one. So, I regret all the time I've wasted; this hurts so much now that I'm aware of how quickly time flies. So from now on, I don't want to waste another moment! I want to get as much done as I possibly can, while I still can.

I now realise the futility of my obsession. It would be like going to school and having a history lesson, and afterwards crying about the fact that I didn't know the stuff already, and wishing I could do the lesson again, already having the knowledge!

Particularly in reference to these comments, here is some advice I received...

So, in a way, I CAN relive my life and make amends for all my mistakes, through recapitulation. And then I'll be as close to being now, the person I could've been if I'd not been such a fool.

I think that is a great thought... we all can make amends for our past by not repeating those hurtful actions. Amends is a two part action. 1) making the amend and 2) following through by not repeating that action you have made the amend for.... I think #2 is way more important that #1. :)

 

[SolarMother]

I am glad I found TC's post on 'regrets' and all the posts that followed. Its exactly what I am going through now, and I can say the depression and all the negative thoughts (ANTS) have been quite debilitating for a few weeks now. It is because of seeing my wasted life, and I see all the lessons not learned have led me to the point where I am now, and there isn't much time left to turn things around, so to speak. These postings are helping me to see the negative introject and the feast the predator is having with my mind while I am unable to pull myself out of it. Is this actually depression that leads to soul growth?

Another thought: then there is seeing the mistakes, which 3D Student says, is turning them into knowledge. Somewhere I thought the C's said that if you catch the error and correct it, it is then not a mistake. So I ask, if its one heck of a whopper of errors that were never caught and then became big mistakes that caused a lot of suffering, and this has been going on for many, many years, how can I not feel so much depression and remorse? How can I not be crying or angry as I relive my life (recapitulate) and all the horrors of it! It feels absolutely too late at times, but that hurts so much that I suspect that is the predator's mind speaking.
I think it takes awhile to turn the mistakes into knowledge, so I need to be patient with myself in this difficult process, but it truly feels like 'it will never end and furthermore, its too late. There is not enough time. I blew it.'

Quote from: T.C. on Yesterday at 05:47:07 AM

So on and off, over the last 12 months, I've had bouts of depression caused by these 'hauntings' from the past. These usually peak with me lying on my bed at night, pleading with the universe to let me go to sleep and wake up on my 8th birthday so that I can 'have a second chance' at life - "I know it's possible, I know you have the power to make this happen. Please, I've wasted my life. Please, let me wake up on my 8th birthday and I won't waste my life this time."

If I look back at all of my regrets, then I can learn from each one. So, I regret all the time I've wasted; this hurts so much now that I'm aware of how quickly time flies. So from now on, I don't want to waste another moment! I want to get as much done as I possibly can, while I still can.

I now realise the futility of my obsession. It would be like going to school and having a history lesson, and afterwards crying about the fact that I didn't know the stuff already, and wishing I could do the lesson again, already having the knowledge!

Tears came to my eyes when I read your words. It does hurt a lot for me as well. I have had a similar process that is culminating now with a flood of 'hauntings'. I am 'on in years' and to see the mess of my life at this time is akin to wanting to die! But your words, TC helped me. I have not had the realization you have had about realizing the futility of your obsession, but perhaps I will because others like you have had this realization in one form or another.

Quote from: T.C. on Yesterday at 05:47:07 AM
So, in a way, I CAN relive my life and make amends for all my mistakes, through recapitulation. And then I'll be as close to being now, the person I could've been if I'd not been such a fool.

3DStudent: Maybe you would be even better than you think you'd have been if you take all of the mistakes and turn them into knowledge. I've wasted years of my life too, and I wouldn't want to go back. It's like in the Matrix, "But if you could go back, would you want to?"

So, is the above really possible?? This is my question to anyone who wants to comment. Can I make amends with people that have been harmed by me (let's say a long time ago for instance) while I relive the episode in my mind? Reliving past episodes are always so subjective and emotional to me, but eventually its true that more objectivity enters in? Is this the knowledge streaming in as a result of seeing the errors? Seems like this is what Don Juan told Carlos to do--relive it until the subjectivity is gone.

thanks for any feedback, and again thank you all for sharing.