Gurdjieff's Alarm Clocks

I can feel what is being discussed here. All the rotten, selfish, vengeful, malicious things I have done swing by and hit me sometimes, and its like an emotional kick in the liver. Gurdjieff said its ok to have remorse, but it is useless to have regret. What happened in the past is done and couldnt have happened any other way than it did. I know that if I were to physically attempt to make amends to the some of the people I hurt, it would only cause more hurt for them and maybe me. So I want to make amends with the universe by working hard at NOW. Only super effors count.
 
SolarMother said:
Can I make amends with people that have been harmed by me (let's say a long time ago for instance) while I relive the episode in my mind?

I don't think there's any way to directly make amends with the people we've hurt in the past. The way I see it is, if they suffered because of the way we treated them, and we continue to treat other people the same way, then all we have done is cause them hurt, and steal from them and the universe to feed ourselves and our egos. Maybe THEY will benefit from the way we treated them, because they might learn how to identify and avoid people who are selfish, or mean, or manipulative etc... but ONLY they may benefit.

On the other hand, if we learn from our guilt and we change ourselves, then added to the chance that they learned something or benefited in the long run, WE will become better people, and to the benefit of everyone we'll come into contact with in the future.

I think in that way, we are sort of making amends with the people we hurt.
 
My clock started with the presence of a woman on january, I met her in just a little time LOL and with the videos from Laura that she talks that if we leanr we can block the psychich control from the 4rth STS to the psychopaths. I will try to help others even if the bite my hand in that way, that's how I see it, for now I can't do anything more appart from learn and help to benefit my relationships and working on my conduct and thinking. An another was to see that lot of people, even being apatetic to the world's situation, they always come to me looking for a shoulder where they may cry, so working on myself will help me in future times if that happen again, I will be able to help them better :P even if they made me suffer.
 
T.C. said:
SolarMother said:
Can I make amends with people that have been harmed by me (let's say a long time ago for instance) while I relive the episode in my mind?

I don't think there's any way to directly make amends with the people we've hurt in the past. The way I see it is, if they suffered because of the way we treated them, and we continue to treat other people the same way, then all we have done is cause them hurt, and steal from them and the universe to feed ourselves and our egos. Maybe THEY will benefit from the way we treated them, because they might learn how to identify and avoid people who are selfish, or mean, or manipulative etc... but ONLY they may benefit.

On the other hand, if we learn from our guilt and we change ourselves, then added to the chance that they learned something or benefited in the long run, WE will become better people, and to the benefit of everyone we'll come into contact with in the future.

I think in that way, we are sort of making amends with the people we hurt.

Yes! in my mind, so to speak...I have played out the event in my mind (as best as my memory can recall--which is subjective of course) and then I have changed the scenario to what I might have done if living more in STO, less in predator-ville.
 
One method that I came up with, was now and then turning my watch upside down. Not so much as an alarm clock but an example of how automatic and sleepy my life is. The confusion of the upside down watch face, the realization that I've been in automatic mode and the realization that I forgot about turning my watch upside down seems to come in that order.
 
T.C. said:
SolarMother said:
Can I make amends with people that have been harmed by me (let's say a long time ago for instance) while I relive the episode in my mind?

I don't think there's any way to directly make amends with the people we've hurt in the past.

A couple decades ago, I made a list of everyone I hurt. I think I apologised to most of them. The biggest part of amends for me is to not repeat the behavior again. Now I just make mental notes for when I think I'm in the wrong. I use allot more discernment to who I apologise to. But in general I think it is humbling and good for the soul. FWIW
 
Johnno, The watch flip is clever. And thanks to all who contributed alarm clock ideas. I've noted a few in my "Alarm Clocks Doc," and while I'm adding, I thought I might as well share some of mine.

Here is a list of ten, roughly in the order that I adopted them, with brief explanations and examples.

1) Any discomfort. For example, banging my head used to elicit automatic curses and sometimes even anger at inanimate objects. Using discomfort as an alarm clock, however, I actually started to feel thankful. Thank you, finicky cabinet door, for knocking me out of my dissociation! :D

2) Any change in breathing. Before discovering the C's, I had been doing breathing meditation regularly so I was becoming alert to changes in breathing. By making it a conscious point of focus and a cue to self remember beyond just my body, I think this alarm clock helped me dissolve some of the illusory boundaries within my experience -- that is, it helped me unite my body and breath with my impressions, thus pushing me to remember that I am a "wave-reading consciousness unit," as the C's say.

I'll note that these two early alarm clocks also helped me notice and terminate negative emotions as they arose, or at least early enough not to express them. With occasional exceptions, of course. Now I am working on more subtle influences from negative emotions -- like, for example, how unacknowledged fear about what is going to happen to people can block my intention to be objective.

3) Songs coming into my head. I noticed that self-remembering (an active and inclusive awareness) would dislodge any song stuck in my head -- for as long as I could self-remember. I figured that a song coming into my head was usually a sign of dissociation, and a good clue to come back to awareness.

4) Any difficulty. This was an expansion on the discomfort alarm clock, to which I'd grown accustomed. Three attempts to buckle my seat-belt? Obviously there is a lesson here... Pay attention! :)

5) Anything surprising – actions, thoughts, emotions. Another expansion. I noticed that my previous alarm clocks focused mostly on the negative side of experience. Though they jolted me back to awareness when something unpleasant occurred, they didn't help me resist the "sweet" sleep of, say, reacting to an unexpected compliment, or seeing someone or something beautiful.

6) Any conversation (recently expanded to any speech act). At one point, after months of steady improvement, I suddenly forgot myself for a few hours straight at a major social event. I was a host, and had spent those hours making mechanical small talk with over a hundred guests. Talk about a herd mentality! When I suddenly came back to myself, I realized that the intense social expectations were enough to put me to sleep.

On a related note, I recently found this quote:

[quote author=Luther Standing Bear, Oglala Sioux Chief]Conversation was never begun at once, nor in a hurried manner. No one was quick with a question, no matter how important, and no one was pressed for an answer. A pause giving time for thought was the truly courteous way of beginning and conducting a conversation. Silence was meaningful with the Lakota, and his granting a space of silence to the speech-maker and his own moment of silence before talking was done in the practice of true politeness and regard for the rule that "thought comes before speech." [/quote]

Of course, a pause can become mechanical as well, but as far as social customs go, I think encoding a moment of reflection into public discourse is a good start.

7) The word “I” -- First I intended to catch myself when I said the word "I" aloud, and now also when I say it in my head. For a time, this alarm clock was really too ambitious -- growing up as a predominantly verbal thinker with a tendency to "think my thoughts," I have decades of almost continuous programming to overcome here. :/ Finally though, I'm getting to the point where I catch a good number of the "I's" and remember my intention to self-remember, which keeps me asking, "Who and what am I really?" and "What is this experience?"

This alarm clock remains the most difficult because, unlike banging one's head, remembering to remember the word "I" can easily slip under the radar of consciousness, even when watching one's words or thoughts. However, in terms of consciousness, I have found it very rewarding (and sometimes quite sobering) to notice self-referencing thoughts and speech.

8) Turning pages. I spent years lost in books, and though I remember myself fairly well while reading these days, I noticed that I still sometimes read mechanically for pages at a time, so I recently started setting this new alarm.

9) Seeing mirrors. This one in particular is not only to help me self-remember, but also specifically to make me acknowledge that I spent most of my life in a narcissistic bubble and that I don't have long fix myself.

10) Eating. When by myself, I used to eat at the computer or while reading a book. As you might expect, I'd often get lost in the media and eat mechanically. I decided that if I was going to consume enfolded consciousness, I could at least show it some respect. Now I try to read when I read, and eat when I eat. A simple test to start is this: Could I consciously stop chewing mid-bite for each and every bite? Maybe some people don't have any problems combining food and media, but my predator loves multi-sensory stimulation, so it's a personal discipline at the very least.


Though I intend every day to self-remember as continuously as Approaching Infinity described upthread, I've also depended on alarm clocks and these are ten that have helped me the most. As you can see, and just as Gurdjieff described, it's been a process of refinement, expansion, and invention. Let this thread testify to the additional necessity of a network.

Many thanks to the community, and the mods especially, for keeping the signal volume up.

Ding! Ding! Ding!

:)
 
Dorothy Minder said:
Johnno, The watch flip is clever. And thanks to all who contributed alarm clock ideas. I've noted a few in my "Alarm Clocks Doc," and while I'm adding, I thought I might as well share some of mine.

Here is a list of ten, roughly in the order that I adopted them, with brief explanations and examples.

1) Any discomfort. For example, banging my head used to elicit automatic curses and sometimes even anger at inanimate objects. Using discomfort as an alarm clock, however, I actually started to feel thankful. Thank you, finicky cabinet door, for knocking me out of my dissociation! :D

2) Any change in breathing. Before discovering the C's, I had been doing breathing meditation regularly so I was becoming alert to changes in breathing. By making it a conscious point of focus and a cue to self remember beyond just my body, I think this alarm clock helped me dissolve some of the illusory boundaries within my experience -- that is, it helped me unite my body and breath with my impressions, thus pushing me to remember that I am a "wave-reading consciousness unit," as the C's say.

I'll note that these two early alarm clocks also helped me notice and terminate negative emotions as they arose, or at least early enough not to express them. With occasional exceptions, of course. Now I am working on more subtle influences from negative emotions -- like, for example, how unacknowledged fear about what is going to happen to people can block my intention to be objective.

3) Songs coming into my head. I noticed that self-remembering (an active and inclusive awareness) would dislodge any song stuck in my head -- for as long as I could self-remember. I figured that a song coming into my head was usually a sign of dissociation, and a good clue to come back to awareness.

4) Any difficulty. This was an expansion on the discomfort alarm clock, to which I'd grown accustomed. Three attempts to buckle my seat-belt? Obviously there is a lesson here... Pay attention! :)

5) Anything surprising – actions, thoughts, emotions. Another expansion. I noticed that my previous alarm clocks focused mostly on the negative side of experience. Though they jolted me back to awareness when something unpleasant occurred, they didn't help me resist the "sweet" sleep of, say, reacting to an unexpected compliment, or seeing someone or something beautiful.

6) Any conversation (recently expanded to any speech act). At one point, after months of steady improvement, I suddenly forgot myself for a few hours straight at a major social event. I was a host, and had spent those hours making mechanical small talk with over a hundred guests. Talk about a herd mentality! When I suddenly came back to myself, I realized that the intense social expectations were enough to put me to sleep.

On a related note, I recently found this quote:

[quote author=Luther Standing Bear, Oglala Sioux Chief]Conversation was never begun at once, nor in a hurried manner. No one was quick with a question, no matter how important, and no one was pressed for an answer. A pause giving time for thought was the truly courteous way of beginning and conducting a conversation. Silence was meaningful with the Lakota, and his granting a space of silence to the speech-maker and his own moment of silence before talking was done in the practice of true politeness and regard for the rule that "thought comes before speech."

Of course, a pause can become mechanical as well, but as far as social customs go, I think encoding a moment of reflection into public discourse is a good start.

7) The word “I” -- First I intended to catch myself when I said the word "I" aloud, and now also when I say it in my head. For a time, this alarm clock was really too ambitious -- growing up as a predominantly verbal thinker with a tendency to "think my thoughts," I have decades of almost continuous programming to overcome here. :/ Finally though, I'm getting to the point where I catch a good number of the "I's" and remember my intention to self-remember, which keeps me asking, "Who and what am I really?" and "What is this experience?"

This alarm clock remains the most difficult because, unlike banging one's head, remembering to remember the word "I" can easily slip under the radar of consciousness, even when watching one's words or thoughts. However, in terms of consciousness, I have found it very rewarding (and sometimes quite sobering) to notice self-referencing thoughts and speech.

8) Turning pages. I spent years lost in books, and though I remember myself fairly well while reading these days, I noticed that I still sometimes read mechanically for pages at a time, so I recently started setting this new alarm.

9) Seeing mirrors. This one in particular is not only to help me self-remember, but also specifically to make me acknowledge that I spent most of my life in a narcissistic bubble and that I don't have long fix myself.

10) Eating. When by myself, I used to eat at the computer or while reading a book. As you might expect, I'd often get lost in the media and eat mechanically. I decided that if I was going to consume enfolded consciousness, I could at least show it some respect. Now I try to read when I read, and eat when I eat. A simple test to start is this: Could I consciously stop chewing mid-bite for each and every bite? Maybe some people don't have any problems combining food and media, but my predator loves multi-sensory stimulation, so it's a personal discipline at the very least.


Though I intend every day to self-remember as continuously as Approaching Infinity described upthread, I've also depended on alarm clocks and these are ten that have helped me the most. As you can see, and just as Gurdjieff described, it's been a process of refinement, expansion, and invention. Let this thread testify to the additional necessity of a network.

Many thanks to the community, and the mods especially, for keeping the signal volume up.

Ding! Ding! Ding!

:)


[/quote]

That was most excellent Dorthy Minder. It has really helped me to understand some of what is being shared here. Very practical alarms.... specially eat when eating, mirrors and narcissism, turning pages and songs in my head. I look forward to trying them. As I am having trouble getting what is being said here... but want to learn.

Thank-you...
 
Dorothy Minder said:
You are very welcome, Harold. Through the process, maybe you'll come up with a few tweaks or new designs of your own to share.

OK, here`s a couple.

Changing one`s stride when walking. And `Remembering` to change facial expressions. Unfurling one`s brow or smiling if one is not.... not sure, but these have helped as there is little room for programs to run while paying attention to these sorts of activities.... are these alarm clocks? They seem to be.... but I could be wrong.

Another one and this could be way out there but when walking sometimes, I imagine that I`m not walking and that the tree`s and bushes and parked cars etc. are spinning and dancing past me instead. It is a little disorienting but gives a very pleasant sensation. I must look like a fool as I become wide eyed with joy during this. This all came about from the opening scene of `Lord of the Rings`, where Gandalf is riding in his cart smoking his pipe with that funny look on his face and the way he is looking around. The look on his face in that scene always really struck me. I wanted to know what is that look for. So.... for some reason after reading some Cass material... can`t remember exactly what.... I think it was around the Greenbaum chapters and animal psychology chapters, that I gave this a try. It is fun! It also gives a feeling of connectedness to the objects I am watching or looking at....FWIW
 
Children under 8-9 years of age sometimes seem to be able to be completely free in their interactions with each other, and often show great spontaneous empathy and a sense of community, without the herd mentality that comes with the years in many. This behaviour is not always manifesting itself of course, but watching children is often an inspiration for me; it makes me want to try to avoid my own filters in my perception of people and situations in the same way.
 
Hithere said:
Children under 8-9 years of age sometimes seem to be able to be completely free in their interactions with each other, and often show great spontaneous empathy and a sense of community, without the herd mentality that comes with the years in many. This behaviour is not always manifesting itself of course, but watching children is often an inspiration for me; it makes me want to try to avoid my own filters in my perception of people and situations in the same way.
Do you mean to have a children judgement?
 
No - to have one's intellectual/emotional/motor faculties intact, but strive to lessen the predator's influence. Children seem to be able to take in their surroundings without flavoring it with their own personality to a greater degree than adults, as far as I can tell.
 
Gurdjieff said:
" But the trouble is that a man gets accustomed to the alarm clock far too quickly, he ceases to hear it."

I tried the putting your watch on upside down one last week. And the first time I was like, "What the?!" and thought it was funny. The second time I wasn't so surprised. Then every one after I started twisting my arm in such a way as to see the face better. I had become subconsciously aware my watch was upside down. So it seems you really do need many alarms.
 
Another fun alarm is that if I don't understand and work these days I won't be able to help others and paradoxically, me. Like apply discipline or you are going to be burden hohoho.
 

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