Hating My Mother and Merry Christmas - Two of my *I*s

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

Re: How to stop hating my Narcissistic mother

I can relate to the frustration when she is happy part. In my case at least, it's because she's so fake all the time, I can't really tell when she's genuinely happy or upset anymore. It seems everything she does is concocted with a purpose, not a genuine expression of how she actually feels. So I see her happiness as just another act, and it is usually overdone and feels forced, and I also know that it is fleeting - any little thing can set her off and turn her from happy into downright demonic in a split second.

So it seems it is a struggle for both of us - I too feel this general "hate" for her. I used to think it was because she was abusive to me when I was young, but I think it may be more due to her constant pretentiousness and manipulative nature, where nothing about her seems genuine. It's hard to sympathize when she complains, and it's hard to share in her joy because that too isn't real, or if it is, it's hard to see behind the external veneer.

Yet simultaneously I care about her and do my best to avoid hurting her or stressing her out. On the other hand, the pain/stress is inevitable if you set down boundaries and stick to them, which are necessary if you are to "work towards your own destiny", even tho she may perceive it as acting "against" her. And at least in my case, trying to talk about it and explaining to her why you need those boundaries is futile (but your mileage may vary!), so it's just a matter of doing it anyway and enforcing them strictly and consistently. What has helped me personally is that I know she does love and care about me, but she is also a broken human being and so there is too much internal interference in her ability to have a healthy relationship with me, or anyone for that matter. So I don't hate her, I just hate her outer shell, and unfortunately she is too identified and set in her ways to ever change that, and I have accepted that.

If your situation is anything like mine, perhaps part of that hate/frustration you feel comes from your desire for her to just stop being the way she is and be genuine for a change, and it creates a constant friction inside you. I really want that genuine interaction and communication, but I can't get it. And she wants me to humor her - by buying into her fakeness, which I also can't do. So I feel stuck between a rock and a hard place.

And after exhausting avenues of conversation and trying to develop a genuine mutually-respectful relationship, I have now accepted that she is who she is, and nothing can change this. So now I just do my best by focusing on my own life, and when interacting with her, try to keep it to small doses. I also try to read between the lines and "give what is asked" very calmly, pragmatically, and with genuine empathy but without falling for the pity that she wants from me.

For example, ironically while writing this (I'm at work right now), she just called me and complained about an almost nauseating headache, and asked me to check up on her during the day to make sure she isn't dead. Getting such a call from any normal person would be very alarming to hear, especially the sudden concern of death. But in this case, I calmly told her to take an advil, and make sure she drinks plenty of water and try to eat something healthy (she knows about my diet, and my fridge is stocked with healthy organic meats she can easily fry if she ever wanted to). So in essence I would never "abandon" her because I do love her and would never want her to suffer needlessly. At the same time I try not to worry if her complaints are real or manufactured, I just give the best advice I can think of without simultaneously giving in to emotional manipulation and giving her pity food.

So I'm not sure if this is helpful for your situation, but it helps me to just be genuine in my interactions with her even when she's fake, and simply consciously give her no food or buy into her games. I am there for her but simultaneously I try to limit my interactions with her when I can, because there's only so much fakeness I can handle before it's overwhelming.

I think a good analogy is if someone in your family is crazy, or has alzheimer's. You would still visit them and care for them, but you'd always keep in mind that they will say and do things that are "crazy", so of course you wouldn't take them to heart and let them affect you. And unless it is a psychopath, there is a real person underneath there, who may be in a real struggle with themselves (and perhaps a losing battle), so you're there for that person, even if they aren't given a voice. And I do get a hint of that struggle at times, the real her does peek out occasionally, so at least in my case I know it is there, and I want her to always know that she has love and support "on the outside" in case she ever decides to break out of her own jail.

 

[Vic]

Re: How to stop hating my Narcissistic mother

Quote SAO: ... What has helped me personally is that I know she does love and care about me, but she is also a broken human being and so there is too much internal interference in her ability to have a healthy relationship with me, or anyone for that matter. So I don't hate her, I just hate her outer shell, and unfortunately she is too identified and set in her ways to ever change that, and I have accepted that.

And that's the crux of it.

There seems to be a strong service-to-self undercurrent to this thread. I mean, I know we need to protect, defend, and improve ourselves. But certain people are bandying the term 'narcissist' about and using it to judge their mothers with. I wouldn't mind hearing the mothers' sides of things.

To me it sounds like teenage angst - don't get me wrong, I had teenage angst at the age of thirty and I was still railing at my Mum. But we need to get over it, and come to the same sort of awareness as SAO mentions above "...she is also a broken human being and so there is too much internal interference in her ability to have a healthy relationship with me, or anyone for that matter."

Going by your posts I get the impression you are giving your mother a lot of pain, Lilyalic. How about concentrating on that as well as your own pain? In terms of equalising the playing field I mean. Narcissism comes in many shades and can creep up on us unawares.

That suggestion of 'fostering' your animals out grated against me. Sometimes I wonder how some people can call themselves animal lovers. I regard myself as one, and the idea of evicting my animals from the home they know and love, and dumping them in some strange place is horrendous. If a human did that to his/her kin he/she would be called psychopathic. Animals are at our mercy in just the same way we are at the mercy of the 4D predator. In fact more so - we have the chance to survive through the acquisition of knowledge.

 

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

Re: How to stop hating my Narcissistic mother

Going by your posts I get the impression you are giving your mother a lot of pain, Lilyalic. How about concentrating on that as well as your own pain? In terms of equalising the playing field I mean. Narcissism comes in many shades and can creep up on us unawares.

I think this is a very important point in any thread such as this - that there are degrees to everything (almost everything). What may work in one case won't work in another, and all that the forum can do is try to give you suggestions to work with, but not a final judgement on how to "fix this once and for all" kind of thing, since that really depends on what is and isn't possible in your specific case.

One thing you never want to do is to add to the mutual suffering, and feed the conflict by "engaging" it on its own terms. I would say that if you can find a way to live in peace, then do so. And you won't know until you give it a genuine effort, which, as Strawman mentioned, requires you to look at whether you're adding to the situation with your current actions, and if you are, then work on fixing that first, which takes you out of the equation. In many cases that will allow you to have some kind of genuine relationship, and focus on love - which requires knowledge, patience, and "giving what is asked" and genuine care. But, there are always exceptions, and some people are "too far gone", where any kind of interaction is detrimental to both of you. In that case, the right thing to do is just to separate fully. However, without taking yourself out of the equation you won't know what is possible, so I'd take a hard and "unflinching" look at how you interact with her, and why, and whether your own programs are firing out of control and contributing to this, before anything else.

 

[lilyalic]

Re: How to stop hating my Narcissistic mother

I swear I thought you were actually on about my Mother at some points! Thank you so much for commenting, it's amazing that it's such a common thing for mothers to become like this.

For example, ironically while writing this (I'm at work right now), she just called me and complained about an almost nauseating headache, and asked me to check up on her during the day to make sure she isn't dead. Getting such a call from any normal person would be very alarming to hear, especially the sudden concern of death. But in this case, I calmly told her to take an advil, and make sure she drinks plenty of water and try to eat something healthy (she knows about my diet, and my fridge is stocked with healthy organic meats she can easily fry if she ever wanted to). So in essence I would never "abandon" her because I do love her and would never want her to suffer needlessly. At the same time I try not to worry if her complaints are real or manufactured, I just give the best advice I can think of without simultaneously giving in to emotional manipulation and giving her pity food.

My Mother also rang me over a "Migraine" and started screaming down the phone that she wanted her Mother, but there was no way I could get there. She said she thought she was going to die and was just screaming crying and saying there was nothing I could do, that is so strange you had a similar experience.
I advised her to take painkillers and get rest, and explained that it was probably just a Migraine, but she still persisted she believed she was dying. I had to ring my Granddad in order for him to go around, after I was off the phone to every contact I just began to cry because it was such an attack.

I admire how you maturely dealt with that situation.

I too feel this general "hate" for her. I used to think it was because she was abusive to me when I was young, but I think it may be more due to her constant pretentiousness and manipulative nature, where nothing about her seems genuine. It's hard to sympathize when she complains, and it's hard to share in her joy because that too isn't real, or if it is, it's hard to see behind the external veneer.

I do believe I hate her due to my abuse when I was young, and that when I try to talk about it as a 'healing' or maybe because I subconsciously want an excuse are at least an acceptable, valid reason- she just changes the subject or blames it entirely on be and my "bad behaviour" (But how can a 4-6 year old know right from wrong?)
Everything my Mother seems to do that's "good" or when she is "happy" seems extremely fake!, it's hard to trust ANYTHING she says or does, or believe anything actions she performs are of good-will or just to make herself seem a 'better' person.

I also can relate in terms of loving her, which sometimes I hate because it keeps me attached to her, I think that's just because they are our Mothers and there's nothing that can change them. I am slowly beginning to accept that she'll never change, it is just very hard to accept a Mother so detrimental to my well being.

Where you an only child brought up by solely your mother by any chance? - Still I am astonished how much your experiences are so similar to mine, due to that I hold the up most respect for the way you deal with it. I always block out my emotions to how much she if effecting me, and I understand how much it actually upsets me- so I hope you cope well with those emotions too.

 

[lilyalic]

Re: How to stop hating my Narcissistic mother

To me it sounds like teenage angst - don't get me wrong, I had teenage angst at the age of thirty and I was still railing at my Mum. But we need to get over it, and come to the same sort of awareness as SAO mentions above "...she is also a broken human being and so there is too much internal interference in her ability to have a healthy relationship with me, or anyone for that matter."

Going by your posts I get the impression you are giving your mother a lot of pain, Lilyalic. How about concentrating on that as well as your own pain? In terms of equalising the playing field I mean. Narcissism comes in many shades and can creep up on us unawares.

I believe I have already gone pass the "teenage angst" stage. I am pretty much over the initial hurt, I'm just going through the process of accepting this. I mostly go by everything she wants (whatever is possible) and I do help her with many problems she seems - and listen to her never-ending problems.

It seems she has transferred all of her own pain into the pain I have given her from moving away, and not following everything she believes.

There was once I asked her to think about all the things that hurt her in the past (because she did have an awful past with my Father who violently abused her) and tried to explain that this was a part of healing, and she can talk to me about it. This only ended with her telling me if she did that then she would kill herself, and if she killed herself then it would not be selfish because no one depends on her any more.

I have actually tried to 'open her up' - ask how she thinks - ask what pain she has been put through - told her that I'm there for her - BEEN there for her - just through all this I believe she has taken many of it for granted, It's not like I solely have only hatred for her and don't want to improve the relationship. I've been doing a lot of work on myself, and yes I know I'm an STS being and I am not perfect!

That suggestion of 'fostering' your animals out grated against me. Sometimes I wonder how some people can call themselves animal lovers. I regard myself as one, and the idea of evicting my animals from the home they know and love, and dumping them in some strange place is horrendous. If a human did that to his/her kin he/she would be called psychopathic. Animals are at our mercy in just the same way we are at the mercy of the 4D predator. In fact more so - we have the chance to survive through the acquisition of knowledge.

Well that's is only another option, so my Mother stops threatening to sell them and emotionally blackmailing me with this. I'm trying my best to sort out something with the animals.
I have been giving my Mother money towards the animals, and I pay for all their costs - So I'm hoping this keeps them in their family home

Thank you for your input, The Strawman

Kind Regards

 

[lilyalic]

Re: How to stop hating my Narcissistic mother

In many cases that will allow you to have some kind of genuine relationship, and focus on love - which requires knowledge, patience, and "giving what is asked" and genuine care. But, there are always exceptions, and some people are "too far gone", where any kind of interaction is detrimental to both of you. In that case, the right thing to do is just to separate fully. However, without taking yourself out of the equation you won't know what is possible, so I'd take a hard and "unflinching" look at how you interact with her, and why, and whether your own programs are firing out of control and contributing to this, before anything else.

Yes I do need to completely understand my programmes with my Mother, and I appreciate your involvement into this issue, and The Strawman. Your opinions/advice are extremely appreciated, and it has opened a lot of new thoughts.

Over the weekend I'm going to try my "be nice" programme, I will have to just adjust my personality a little when I'm around her.

 

[JGeropoulas]

Re: How to stop hating my Narcissistic mother

It's difficult to quickly shift from one emotional reaction/state to an alternate reaction/state that's very different (e.g. from hate to love). Moving from hate to love might be the ultimate goal, but is often a very a long, difficult journey. A more immediate "first step" might be aiming to shift/morph your feelings of hate into feelings of pity.

Pity has some elements related "hate": judging, labeling, distancing, and clearly puts the "pity-er" (you) in the superior role, while clearly identifying the "pity-ed" as the one with the defects. Yet pity also has elements of love, (e.g. compassion, patience, understanding), which may enable further growth in that direction.

That said, love doesn't mean "be nice" as much as it means "be helpful". And of course, never lose sight of the fact that, due to your mother's narcissistic ego defenses, your genuine love will likely never feel very loving to your mother (e.g. leaving her so she might have a chance to see some things about herself instead of projecting them onto you--a result almost certain never to occur ).

It might you to make progress (e.g. overcome your "be nice" "forgive and forget" or "make peace" programs) if you keep this in mind:

You cannot be nice, forgive or make peace with someone as long as they're actively still hurting you. So until YOU create protective boundaries/limits via assertive actions (which your mother will not like and will likely try to manipulate around), YOU will be enabling her to continue hurting you, and perpetuating your hatred for her.

Instead, try to "hate" the things YOU are doing/not doing which enable your mother to continue hurting you.

One woman I know found that she was afraid to hate her narcissistic mother because that would require her to accept the sad fact she never really had a mother in the true sense of the word. Hating her mother was her way of clinging to the false belief that her mother had love for her, but just wouldn't give it to her.

She eventually had this break-through insight: "I realized that I wanted steak, and all my mother ever served was hamburger. So if I want a hamburger I got visit my mother, and if I want a steak I go somewhere else"

Another man, a 60-year-old pastor plagued with anxiety, kept referring to "those folks" throughout his life story, so I finally had to ask who "those folks" were. Startled at becoming freshly aware of this, he explained that's how he refers to (i.e. thinks about) his parents (who were pathological).

And as I've often observed in working with couples, they come in angry at their partner because they WON'T give them the love they believe their partner can give them. Over the course of time, many ultimately become depressed when they realize their partner CAN'T give them that love.

But accepting the realistic limits of a situation moves you from anger to grief, which moves through specific stages, which result in acceptance, then peace and freedom.

Some things to keep in mind perhaps.

 

[mabar]

Re: How to stop hating my Narcissistic mother

Over the weekend I'm going to try my "be nice" programme, I will have to just adjust my personality a little when I'm around her.

fwiw ... adjusting my personality when I am around my parents/mother, had not function well to me, instead I try to focus in external consideration, what is my purpose of being with her, and most of the time, it works better for both, once in a while a program escape from my hands and this is when both start reacting, I focus/try/pay attention to keep observing my self, for be able to stop the whatever program, because I had realized that is/had been, that being around her, programs are more intense?

I am reading a book that is helping me to understand my hate to my mother, (had not post about it, in a non too distant future I will, because at large extent, it involves not just programs, a basic condition of existing that had projected to any activities/behaviours of my being, that hold me back, to receive what the universe offers instead of being afraid of it.

Understanding, really understanding why/how/when other peoples behaves (in this case, my mother, father, had helped me to dissipate anger, sometimes I had thought, that I had understood them, when in reality it is not, that's why programs keep popping it, and I am not able to catch-ed them at time. At the precisely time.

I had not seen this book in the recommended ones, but it had helped me to contemplate issues, had not finished either, I will in the non too distant future post some quotes, it is really interesting, from my point of view. The book is: The Origins of Love and Hate by Ian D. Suttie.

 

[furryfrog]

Re: How to stop hating my Narcissistic mother

My big question is, how do I stop my programme of hating her actions?

As you progress in the work and become more present and conscious of yourself, your responses will become less mechanical. Perhaps understanding why your mothers actions are the way the are will help. You have identified your mother as a narcissist, so put the knowledge you have read to use. Your mother is a facade, any essence she has left is hidden deep inside, What you know as your mother is just a mechanical creation, kind of like a refrigerator. Would you "hate" a refrigerator? So, when you are talking to your mother, pretend you are talking to a refrigerator, you will be less likely to "identify" with her and get vacuumed in and take things personally. Remember that narcissist suck your energy, that is how they survive.

how do you entertain someone when you can't give them what they want?

Its a conundrum, you can't. Your mothers "entertainment" is to suck you dry. You could meet your mom at a movie theater, right before show time so you don't have to talk to her very much, bring lots of friends and other family members, after the movie you have to go right away because of......

since I have to put up with her presence until I can get my attachments away from her house, I can't possibly think of the best way to do this.

A few ideas...

-Bring a friend with you, someone who is doing the "work" and who she does not know would be best, they can distract your mother a little, people behave better when they have guests. Outside observations of how you interact with your mother would be beneficial, and the two of you could come up with strategies how to circumvent you mothers energy sucking methods. In trapped in the mirror, I think is was the author (not sure) who lied to her dad and said she was gay, to get her narcissistic father off her back.

-don't let your mother schedule and control your meetings. Only meet your mother when you feel at your best, and you have had time to gather yourself and prepare yourself emotional and mentally. If your are tired or ill do not meet up with your mother. Do not be in a rush and pressed for time before you go visit your mom, you need to be relaxed and "present"

-Do not drink alcohol, you will need all the self control you can muster.





Remember that you, your self development and the "work" come first. It is up to you to decide where your priorities lie and whether dealing with your mother and retaining your pets are worth the risk. (I know you love your pets, I'm sure there is a solution)

Keep in mind, that when you have advanced yourself far enough in the work, your mother could be very helpful. You could learn a lot about yourself when doing self observation, measure your progress against your mother, and you can use her as a tool to practice staying present and not falling into a state of confluence. Starting out with the work though, it may be best to see your mom only occasionally or not at all, as the first order of business is to stop becoming a power cell for the matrix, and to conserve and build up your energy reserve, and become conscious of where your energy is going.

Just going to point out that since you have a narcissistic mother you likely have some narcissistic traits yourself (most of us do), it would be best to be aware of these if you are not already.

 

[lilyalic]

Re: How to stop hating my Narcissistic mother

You cannot be nice, forgive or make peace with someone as long as they're actively still hurting you. So until YOU create protective boundaries/limits via assertive actions (which your mother will not like and will likely try to manipulate around), YOU will be enabling her to continue hurting you, and perpetuating your hatred for her.

Instead, try to "hate" the things YOU are doing/not doing which enable your mother to continue hurting you.

That is very helpful, It is true that I am the only person who will allow the things she says or does to hurt me.
It'll be difficult to create these boundaries, I'll have to carefully think of a way to set them without any hurtful comments towards me and without prompting her to justify herself.
Thank you for making that more clear for me to see.

One woman I know found that she was afraid to hate her narcissistic mother because that would require her to accept the sad fact she never really had a mother in the true sense of the word. Hating her mother was her way of clinging to the false belief that her mother had love for her, but just wouldn't give it to her.

She eventually had this break-through insight: "I realized that I wanted steak, and all my mother ever served was hamburger. So if I want a hamburger I got visit my mother, and if I want a steak I go somewhere else"

I understand that 'hating' (maybe I use the word hate a little too hastily) her did require to accept that she wasn't really a 'mother' figure (or atleast one which wants me to succeed more than she wants her own happiness)

But accepting the realistic limits of a situation moves you from anger to grief, which moves through specific stages, which result in acceptance, then peace and freedom.

Some things to keep in mind perhaps.

Thank you so much JGeropoulas, I have took your advice in and will attempt to put some things into action.

Kind Regards

I am reading a book that is helping me to understand my hate to my mother, (had not post about it, in a non too distant future I will, because at large extent, it involves not just programs, a basic condition of existing that had projected to any activities/behaviours of my being, that hold me back, to receive what the universe offers instead of being afraid of it.

I had not seen this book in the recommended ones, but it had helped me to contemplate issues, had not finished either, I will in the non too distant future post some quotes, it is really interesting, from my point of view. The book is: The Origins of Love and Hate by Ian D. Suttie.

I'm intrigued to read about this book, as you said it's helping you understand your hatred for your mother, I think I will purchase this one!.
I hope you're coping well, and your journey is as smooth as possible!

I appreciate your input entirely! Thank you!

Kind Regards

I will reply to more comments when I get the chance!

 

[mada85]

Re: How to stop hating my Narcissistic mother

lilyalic, have you read Character Disturbance by George Simon? If not, I would highly recommend it. I think that Simon's work would give you some excellent strategies for dealing with her behaviour, which are applicable in a practical way.

 

[JGeropoulas]

Re: How to stop hating my Narcissistic mother

That is very helpful, It is true that I am the only person who will allow the things she says or does to hurt me.
It'll be difficult to create these boundaries, I'll have to carefully think of a way to set them without any hurtful comments towards me and without prompting her to justify herself.
Thank you for making that more clear for me to see.

Also consider that perhaps you have so much (justifiable) anger built up towards her that you feel you must be nice to her to keep her from attacking you--which you fear will cause your anger to explode towards her.

So, explore this fear by imagining various scenarios both good and bad, and your possible options for responding to them. Imagination can be like practice/preparation and make you feel more confident. Talk to trusted friends or therapists who'll provide a safe place to express your feelings of anger (vs. ideas about anger) which would relieve some of the emotional pressure. If nothing else, find a private place and pretend you're talking to friends, therapists, or even your mother. Such catharsis is one of the oldest "mental health" tools around.

Another powerful insight is to realize that everyone (i.e. your mother) must live their own life with all it's pleasant and unpleasant aspects...everyone has the own "cross to bear". Why do you try to give your mother a life free of stress and challenge, when no one else has such a life--especially you? And would such a life be of any real use? Our responsibility to others is basically "only" to speak the truth in love. Others must take it from there. You can't do it for them--and even if you could, you probably shouldn't.

There are 2 verses in the Bible that at first seem contradictory, but when better understood, make a good distinction:

"Bear one another's burdens" (refers to overwhelming crises in life)
"Each person must bear their own load" (refers to day-to-day responsibilities)

Just as the body develops protective callouses, it's OK to "harden your heart" towards toxic people. It's not wrong--it's necessary due to THEIR behavior.

 

[Renaissance]

Re: How to stop hating my Narcissistic mother

That suggestion of 'fostering' your animals out grated against me. Sometimes I wonder how some people can call themselves animal lovers. I regard myself as one, and the idea of evicting my animals from the home they know and love, and dumping them in some strange place is horrendous. If a human did that to his/her kin he/she would be called psychopathic. Animals are at our mercy in just the same way we are at the mercy of the 4D predator. In fact more so - we have the chance to survive through the acquisition of knowledge.

Lilyalic's animals are actually being fostered right now, and it seems like it's not a good situation for them or Lilyalic. I think you're making some assumptions here. I wouldn't say that they're in a loving environment. No one said anything about dumping them. There are good homes that could probably be found with a little effort. There are circumstances that create a need that are often beyond our capacity to do on our own. I try to remember that things are often not so black and white. Sometimes things like foster care, whether for an animal or human is actually a good and healthy thing. I worked in foster care for a little while and many of the parents I met were pretty amazing people. I've also known of some that were god awful and this is where research is needed.

And in full disclosure Nancy2feathers is my mom, and she fostered my dog for me when I couldn't bring her to a new place I moved to. I couldn't have asked for a better home for her. :)

 

[aragorn]

Re: How to stop hating my Narcissistic mother

Quote SAO: ... What has helped me personally is that I know she does love and care about me, but she is also a broken human being and so there is too much internal interference in her ability to have a healthy relationship with me, or anyone for that matter. So I don't hate her, I just hate her outer shell, and unfortunately she is too identified and set in her ways to ever change that, and I have accepted that.

And that's the crux of it.

There seems to be a strong service-to-self undercurrent to this thread. I mean, I know we need to protect, defend, and improve ourselves. But certain people are bandying the term 'narcissist' about and using it to judge their mothers with. I wouldn't mind hearing the mothers' sides of things.

To me it sounds like teenage angst - don't get me wrong, I had teenage angst at the age of thirty and I was still railing at my Mum. But we need to get over it, and come to the same sort of awareness as SAO mentions above "...she is also a broken human being and so there is too much internal interference in her ability to have a healthy relationship with me, or anyone for that matter."

Going by your posts I get the impression you are giving your mother a lot of pain, Lilyalic. How about concentrating on that as well as your own pain? In terms of equalising the playing field I mean. Narcissism comes in many shades and can creep up on us unawares.

That suggestion of 'fostering' your animals out grated against me. Sometimes I wonder how some people can call themselves animal lovers. I regard myself as one, and the idea of evicting my animals from the home they know and love, and dumping them in some strange place is horrendous. If a human did that to his/her kin he/she would be called psychopathic. Animals are at our mercy in just the same way we are at the mercy of the 4D predator. In fact more so - we have the chance to survive through the acquisition of knowledge.

If you read the previous posts by lilyalic, it's pretty obvious that her mother has some serious issues (beating her up etc). What you're doing here IMO is some sort of black and white "über-moralism" where you're basically blaming the victim for not having enough understanding for the abuser.

@lilyac: I hope you've had the chance to listen to the SOTT radio episode with the author of "Fear of the Abyss" Dr. Aleta Edwards. Amongst other valuable things, she explains how important it is to set the boundaries with narcissistic parents, and she also gives some examples of how to do this.

Link: http://www.blogtalkradio.com/sottnet/2013/10/20/dr-aleta-edwards-interview-fear-of-the-abyss

 

[Gwenllian]

Re: How to stop hating my Narcissistic mother

Quote SAO: ... What has helped me personally is that I know she does love and care about me, but she is also a broken human being and so there is too much internal interference in her ability to have a healthy relationship with me, or anyone for that matter. So I don't hate her, I just hate her outer shell, and unfortunately she is too identified and set in her ways to ever change that, and I have accepted that.

And that's the crux of it.

There seems to be a strong service-to-self undercurrent to this thread. I mean, I know we need to protect, defend, and improve ourselves. But certain people are bandying the term 'narcissist' about and using it to judge their mothers with. I wouldn't mind hearing the mothers' sides of things.

To me it sounds like teenage angst - don't get me wrong, I had teenage angst at the age of thirty and I was still railing at my Mum. But we need to get over it, and come to the same sort of awareness as SAO mentions above "...she is also a broken human being and so there is too much internal interference in her ability to have a healthy relationship with me, or anyone for that matter."

Going by your posts I get the impression you are giving your mother a lot of pain, Lilyalic. How about concentrating on that as well as your own pain? In terms of equalising the playing field I mean. Narcissism comes in many shades and can creep up on us unawares.

That suggestion of 'fostering' your animals out grated against me. Sometimes I wonder how some people can call themselves animal lovers. I regard myself as one, and the idea of evicting my animals from the home they know and love, and dumping them in some strange place is horrendous. If a human did that to his/her kin he/she would be called psychopathic. Animals are at our mercy in just the same way we are at the mercy of the 4D predator. In fact more so - we have the chance to survive through the acquisition of knowledge.

If you read the previous posts by lilyalic, it's pretty obvious that her mother has some serious issues (beating her up etc). What you're doing here IMO is some sort of black and white "über-moralism" where you're basically blaming the victim for not having enough understanding for the abuser.

I agree with Aragorn here, The Strawman.
In order to work through our childhood there are some steps that we have to take. We have to say out loud what we think of our parents, call a spade a spade, work through our feelings of (justifiable) outrage, hatred and so on, before we can move on. IMO, that is what lilyalic is doing.

Why wouldn't you mind hearing the mothers' side of things? How do you think narcissistic parents would respond, if you were to ask about their side of things? If you were to talk to my mother for instance would you be able to see through her charm or her helplessness or this facade that she is the normal one? She would tell you all kinds of things about me, appearing calm and collected, and in the end you would probably believe her. That is how my mother and other narcissists (with or without disorders?) work. She used to do that with friends of mine at the time. She would invite them to dinner without me and then start talking about me, telling them how impatient I was and so on. They just took her word for it and even reprimanded me afterwards.