Help! What to do with an injured mouse?

[Guardian]

As I see it, the mouse would already have been out of his misery if you had not intervened. As for the cat 'catching' something from eating a possibly diseased mouse, well.., cats do what they do and maybe that would have been something to let nature control as it does so naturally. It may not be something we 'like' but it is what it is ; nature.

I have to disagree again, for the sake of DOMESTIC cats everywhere ;)
Cats are NOT wild animals, even feral ones, and they are not equipped to deal with the parasites and other diseases carried by mice in the US....the cat's lucky if it ONLY gets worms. I have one friend who's cat was blinded by a disease he got from eating mice. My own beloved cat died when she pounced on a black widow spider and bit it.

Wild animals know what other species can represent a threat to them...domesticated animals do not. We have made ourselves responsible for the animals we've domesticated, and that includes protecting them from threats they do not understand, like disease.

We have two HUGE Black snakes that keep our mouse population down to just about nothing, and a big Pine snake that lives under the porch near where the goat's hay is stored. Occasionally we'll see one of them peaking out from the rafters, or sunning itself on a beam, but they ignore us and we ignore them. Snakes, birds of prey, fox, coyotes, etc. are nature's rodent control, NOT house cats.

ONE snake living in the rafters and walls of your house can keep your home completely rodent free, they do not carry diseases we can catch, and they do no damage by living in the spaces we don't use. People kill harmless (to humans) snakes out of mindless FEAR, and that's when the rodent problems start. The snakes living in our house also kill and eat any squirrels that decide to nest inside, which is VERY good since they will chew wiring and can cause fires.

I agree 100% with Howtobe training her cat to give up a mouse in exchange for a treat, for the cat's health and safety. Since the cat is not going to eat the mouse, there's no reason it needs to give up it's life. Since the poor thing was still alive, I'd put it in a box on the back porch with a little grain and water, and give it a chance to recover then release it too, or if it was too badly injured, I'd kill it myself.

When I see a wild animal feeding on another wild animal, I do NOT interfere...wouldn't even think of it, but I feel totally responsible for the animals I've taken into my home. I feed them so they do not NEED to hunt and kill, and doing so could seriously hurt them because the immunities and instincts they need to survive were bred out of them centuries ago.

 

[Gimpy]

We have two HUGE Black snakes that keep our mouse population down to just about nothing, and a big Pine snake that lives under the porch near where the goat's hay is stored. Occasionally we'll see one of them peaking out from the rafters, or sunning itself on a beam, but they ignore us and we ignore them. Snakes, birds of prey, fox, coyotes, etc. are nature's rodent control, NOT house cats.

Yeah, we have lots of black snakes, racers (same thing?), and corn snakes. The corn snakes can be pretty big. They are awesome at keeping the rodents down. I have a hard time convincing our neighbors to leave snakes alone. They are phobic and kill them on sight, then complain about all the shrews, voles, mice, and rats around and in their house. When we first moved here I would fish snakes out of their pool once a week. (I had a grabby tool just for that purpose.)

Our cat is an excellent mouser, but she has a very bad habit of dropping them live on us in the middle of the night. This is her idea of playing with the people. Last year taking the a/c unit out of the bedroom, we had a live bat plop onto the floor. It was a mad scramble to save the little dude from the cat, and I'm happy to say Hubby managed to gently catch her in a soft towel, and she flew out of his hands unharmed. (We love our bats.)(Many are endangered here, and with white nose, we take extra care.)

Sometimes I've woke in the night and found dead mice in the bathtub, and once she dumped a dead shrew in the toilet.

Most of the time I can get the mouse away from her and give her praise and a treat, but not every time. We are as careful as we can be.

We found out this year, during some foundation work on the house, that a couple of our heat ducts had come apart in the crawlspace. That let the rodents in, and was the reason our cat could be found in key spots waiting to pounce. We had the foundation dudes fix the ducts, and so far no more 'surprises'. We'll see how it goes after another heavy rain.

 

[Gonzo]

Eventhough domestic cats (including feral domestic cats) aren't the same things as a wild animal, their instincts are still strong and their immune systems can certainly be improved through exposure. There are thousands, if not millions of feral cats survive quite well in the wild. Of course there's a risk of disease, due to their evolutionary disadvantage, but to be scientific about it, it would be important to know what risk an outdoor domestic cat would be taking by eating wild rodents to adequately assess the harm of eating wild. Farm cats have been doing it as long as we've been farming, and there lives are usually cut short by accidents over disease (stepped on by horses, for example).

I fully understand how difficult this issue can be for many. But after living on a farm for a while, I've come to appreciate the hunting abilities of cats, especially after we had a chipmonk population explosion a few years back.

One of the problems in saving a wounded mouse, apart from the obvious introduction of disease from contact, mites, lice, etc., is that rodents don't demonstrate the level of pain they might be under. A puncture to the stomach area could easily cause internal bleeding and often their tiny bones gets broken when a cat "plays" with them. I've "saved" several mice over the years living in town to avoid the mess in the house, usually releasing them far down the road in a field, so as not to reward the cat in any way. I then let nature complete its course, as unnatural as it is, once a human has intervened. I expect they either recovered or succumbed to another predator.


In the country, however, I'd just move the cat and prey outside and let him finish his job. Of course, I'd still have to contend with the disgusting "Lord of the Flies"-type trophies of mice heads lined up near the back door, or the inedible guts laying around on the deck, waiting for my bare feet to discover them.

It really seems nasty. Now that we live in the city, our current cats remain indoors, so we don't have to deal with that situation anymore (thank DCM).

Gonzo

 

[Guardian]

Eventhough domestic cats (including feral domestic cats) aren't the same things as a wild animal, their instincts are still strong and their immune systems can certainly be improved through exposure.

Not in my experience. They get sick, suffer and die, because they've become dependent on us.

There are thousands, if not millions of feral cats survive quite well in the wild.

Where? To my knowledge, feral cats only survive in cities and around human populations (usually eating garbage) In the wild, domestic cats won't last longer than a day or two....the bobcats, lynx, coyotes, etc. will hunt and kill them as soon as they get their scent. In the wild, domestic cats are NOT predators, they're prey....and easy prey at that.

The Great Smoky Mountains National Park covers over 800 square miles, and I've hiked a goodly portion of it over the decades. In all that time, I've never seen ONE single domestic cat in the wild. I've seen bobcat, lynx, even a couple of cougars, but NEVER a house cat...except at the tourist center where we leave our cars. Domesticated cats need humans to survive. Likewise for dogs, they are NOT wolves anymore either. We changed them, all the way down to their DNA, so we are responsible for them....OSIT

Even barn cat's need extensive human intervention to live out half their normal lifespan. Inoculations against rabies, distemper, feline leukemia, etc. as well as antibiotics and MONTHLY worming are a necessary to keep them alive, and even then, they're considered "old" if they live to be 8-10. Whereas one good King Snake in the grain bin can do the job of a 1/2 dozen so called "barn cats" ...and the snakes know how to stay out of the way of the horse's hooves.

 

[Guardian]

Yeah, we have lots of black snakes, racers (same thing?), and corn snakes. The corn snakes can be pretty big. They are awesome at keeping the rodents down. I have a hard time convincing our neighbors to leave snakes alone. They are phobic and kill them on sight, then complain about all the shrews, voles, mice, and rats around and in their house.

I know, right! That makes me soooooooo angry

Of the 2000+ snake species in the US, only 21 of them are poisonous, and they are VERY easy to spot. . The rest are constrictors and most can't even open their mouths wide enough to bite a human if they wanted to...which they don't. They don't even have teeth, just sharp cartilage ridges designed to grab their prey (mostly rodents) Even a goat can tell the difference between a poisonous snake and a harmless one... they will kill a copperhead in a heartbeat, but they totally ignore the grain snakes.

I turned an old golf club into a "snake hook" for when I have to move a snake...usually to save it from a STUPID human. The fact is that if people would learn to coexist peacefully with snakes, there would be no rodent problem. Indigenous constrictors make PERFECT housemates, they do their best to avoid people and our pets, live in the rafters or inside the walls, they don't want our food, they don't hurt the pipes when they curl around them for warmth, they don't chew wires, and they EAT what harms us....it is their natural prey.

Yet people go out of their way to kill them....WHY?????

 

[Nawd]

I know, right! That makes me soooooooo angry

Of the 2000+ snake species in the US, only 21 of them are poisonous, and they are VERY easy to spot. . The rest are constrictors and most can't even open their mouths wide enough to bite a human if they wanted to...which they don't. They don't even have teeth, just sharp cartilage ridges designed to grab their prey (mostly rodents) Even a goat can tell the difference between a poisonous snake and a harmless one... they will kill a copperhead in a heartbeat, but they totally ignore the grain snakes.

I turned an old golf club into a "snake hook" for when I have to move a snake...usually to save it from a STUPID human. The fact is that if people would learn to coexist peacefully with snakes, there would be no rodent problem. Indigenous constrictors make PERFECT housemates, they do their best to avoid people and our pets, live in the rafters or inside the walls, they don't want our food, they don't hurt the pipes when they curl around them for warmth, they don't chew wires, and they EAT what harms us....it is their natural prey.

Yet people go out of their way to kill them....WHY?????

My mom was like this. A simple garden snake and she would freak, get angry and get the garden hoe. It was terrible for me because I had and have no fear of them and eventually learned to identify a posionous one from a harmless one. I haven't killed any of them however just removed myself from their area.

So my only conclusion is that perfectly good pest hunters are killed because of fear. I'd say it's because of religion and the Garden of Eden stories and other stories which depict snakes as bringers of knowledge and health.

Interesting thought.

 

[Laura]

Even barn cat's need extensive human intervention to live out half their normal lifespan. Inoculations against rabies, distemper, feline leukemia, etc. as well as antibiotics and MONTHLY worming are a necessary to keep them alive, and even then, they're considered "old" if they live to be 8-10. Whereas one good King Snake in the grain bin can do the job of a 1/2 dozen so called "barn cats" ...and the snakes know how to stay out of the way of the horse's hooves.

There is a big difference between cats in the U.S. and cats in France. (We also hardly have any fleas here.) The cats here are big and rather ferocious even if tamed and raised from kittens. Nothing like the often very sweet and docile American domesticated cats. Cats are expected to eat mice here (pretty much) unless they are some high-falutin' imported breed. Like I said, our kitty eats one or two every day, it seems, or she goes after baby rabbits, moles and birds. She is quite efficient and rarely needs to be fed cat food. She's quite large, plump, and rarely needs worming. (Another thing that runs at a much lower level here than in the U.S. Also don't have heartworms here.)

I think most of what is wrong with domestic animals in the U.S. is the commercial foods they are fed, over-vaccinating and over-medicating with antibiotics. These cause them the same problems that the wrong diet and vaccines and too much antibiotics causes humans. If they were raised on raw meat, their systems would work properly and they wouldn't require so much of the "support" that they have to get in the U.S.

But yeah, I agree, in the U.S., the strains are pretty much weakened and DO need more care and supervision than elsewhere in the world.

 

[Guardian]

There is a big difference between cats in the U.S. and cats in France. (We also hardly have any fleas here.) The cats here are big and rather ferocious even if tamed and raised from kittens.

I'd heard they're much larger on average.. closer to the size of our Bobcats. The domestic cats in the US were originally imported. American Indians did not domesticate America wildcats, so you can figure only the most tame and friendly (and over-bred) cats were initially brought over as pets... with the exception of a few ship cats. Their decedents are commonly called "wharf cats" and are probably closer to the size and attitude of French cats.

A friend of mine also told me that there are cats EVERYWHERE in France..so many that they actually form "Prides" and seize territory?

If true...I think that is VERY kewl! Kitty getting back to his roots

 

[Laura]

A friend of mine also told me that there are cats EVERYWHERE in France..so many that they actually form "Prides" and seize territory?

I've never seen or heard of anything like that. One thing you almost never see in France is stray animals running loose. You also almost never see them dead on the roads. Vet care is affordable and the French are generally VERY responsible about their pets. We actually had a hard time finding an ordinary kitten other than expensive ones advertised in the paper. But we finally did and had to put in our claim early because demand was high.

 

[Adaryn]

A friend of mine also told me that there are cats EVERYWHERE in France..so many that they actually form "Prides" and seize territory?

There are wild cats, and they often fight against each other. I think the wild ones generally live in the cities. These ones are massive (a regular domestic cat is no match for them) - they're the big shots, and you'd better not mess with them :) Where I lived before, there was a group living in a cemetery. Somehow, they remind me of the Scat Cat's gang :P Ladies from the local animal protection association used to take care of them, feeding them.

 

[Laura]

A friend of mine also told me that there are cats EVERYWHERE in France..so many that they actually form "Prides" and seize territory?

There are wild cats, and they often fight against each other. I think the wild ones generally live in the cities.

That's why I've never seen any. They certainly aren't in the countryside where we are!

 

[Adaryn]

I don't see wild cats either where I live, but there were some in Toulouse. And there were problems of overpopulation and cats AIDS, the ladies of the association complained a lot about it.

 

[Guardian]

There are wild cats, and they often fight against each other. I think the wild ones generally live in the cities. These ones are massive (a regular domestic cat is no match for them) - they're the big shots, and you'd better not mess with them :)

Now I want one of those cats...I could actually let it outside without worrying that it's going to get it's butt kicked by a gopher. :D

I don't think yawl have many of the other predators that can kill a cat in France either? Here, your average groundhog is bigger than a cat, and the racoons weigh 30-40 lbs. Bobcats weigh about 20 lbs., see domesticated cats as a territorial threat and will kill them instantly on scent.

In addition to the food/nutrition issue, cats, including feral ones, have been adapting to European environments for thousands of years, whereas they've only been in the US for a few hundred years, and many of the ones here descend from "Pedigreed" stock...which certainly doesn't help.

We've got some pretty large predators still roaming loose in many parts of the country, and just about every animal born disease you can think of. Tapeworms are carried by practically everything that's warm blooded and about 10-15 years ago they even discovered a Hantavirus in mice right here in Jackson County.

 

[Franco]

Even barn cat's need extensive human intervention to live out half their normal lifespan. Inoculations against rabies, distemper, feline leukemia, etc. as well as antibiotics and MONTHLY worming are a necessary to keep them alive, and even then, they're considered "old" if they live to be 8-10. Whereas one good King Snake in the grain bin can do the job of a 1/2 dozen so called "barn cats" ...and the snakes know how to stay out of the way of the horse's hooves.

There is a big difference between cats in the U.S. and cats in France. (We also hardly have any fleas here.) The cats here are big and rather ferocious even if tamed and raised from kittens. Nothing like the often very sweet and docile American domesticated cats. Cats are expected to eat mice here (pretty much) unless they are some high-falutin' imported breed. Like I said, our kitty eats one or two every day, it seems, or she goes after baby rabbits, moles and birds. She is quite efficient and rarely needs to be fed cat food. She's quite large, plump, and rarely needs worming. (Another thing that runs at a much lower level here than in the U.S. Also don't have heartworms here.)

I think most of what is wrong with domestic animals in the U.S. is the commercial foods they are fed, over-vaccinating and over-medicating with antibiotics. These cause them the same problems that the wrong diet and vaccines and too much antibiotics causes humans. If they were raised on raw meat, their systems would work properly and they wouldn't require so much of the "support" that they have to get in the U.S.

But yeah, I agree, in the U.S., the strains are pretty much weakened and DO need more care and supervision than elsewhere in the world.

After getting interested in my own diet this year I decided to look up what my cat is eating and what it should be eating.

Learning that cats are obligate carnivores and only eat around 5% carbs in the wild and then finding out my cat food recommended by the vet only has around 4% real meat in it was really shocking.

Dry food is especially bad for cats as they get most of their water from food, which is impossible from normal dry food.

These carbs apparently push up the cats insulin levels too and cause all kinds of problems, especially kidney disease and diabetes.

So I've slowly weened my cat off carbs and give her foods that are much higher in real meat.

If like most people you are feeding your cats dry or tin food, look on the label to find out how much REAL meat is in the product and not meat derivatives.

My cat was the runt of the litter and got really overweight on the previous diet.

Lucky there doesn't seem to be any permanent damage from the tests done at the vet.

 

[seekr]

When I was about 6 y.o. I rescued a mouse from one of our cats. It was all wet and barely moving when I got it from the cat. But I put it in a shoe box with a small sock to sleep in and an "empty" (just the little bit that you can't really scrape off the sides and bottom) peanut butter jar turned on its side for food, also filled the lid of a jar with water. It took about 3 days for it regain its perky self.

I was happy to see it so active but my mother had a fit when she found I had a mouse in the house

In the years following she would find that I brought bats, squirrels, a opossum and a skunk into the house. most were injured juveniles or babies