Hemochromatosis and Autoimmune Conditions

Foxx said:
zlyja said:
I should've looked harder for a blood test before I donated, since my results are probably skewed, but I finally got one a week after I donated through this site that didn't require a doctor: http://www.healthcheckusa.com/Iron-Panel/46885/ (see if you have a LabCorp near you before you order anything).

Does the price on the website include everything? Or do you have to pay an additional fee for having blood drawn or some other fees?

Everything but the hospital parking, which was $3. :) I don't know where you live, though (I'm in Southern California), so it may be different for you. Also, if you decide to order through them, don't bother making an appointment at the LabCorp, since it ends up being "first come, first serve" no matter what time you arrive.
 
LQB said:
That made me think - my mother's Ferritin came back pretty low for her age (Fer=64, Trans Fer=243) - and she takes a good dose of nattokinase twice daily. Nattokinase is a powerful protease - what if its busting up her ferritin/protein matrix so that the iron can be dealt with? I do think that her Vit D levels are so much higher than mine because of the Vit K2 that is inherent in the nattokinase. Maybe there is a link here to her low Fe.

From a textbook:

Fine Particles in Medicine and Pharmacy edited by Egon Matijević

Enzymatic degradation of the protein shell of ferritin is possible by lysosomal proteases. Most of the studies in the field are concentrated on in vivo systems and most probably some commercially available proteases can degrade the ferritin shell. This method can be useful for release of semiconducting nanoparticles such as metal chalcogenides that are highly sensitive to oxidation.

This makes me wonder if an enzymatic protease might give a big boost to the concurrent EDTA/DMSA chelation.
 
If I remember correctly, lactoferrin was recommended for healing the gut. At least calostrum. Not everybody tolerates it, but lactoferrin is actually an iron chelator:

Inhibitory Effects on Bacterial Growth and BIOFILM Formation.

LACTOFERRIN:

Lactoferrin is a glycoprotein and a member of transferrin family capable of binding and transferring iron (Fe3+ ions). It is therefore an iron chelator. Lactoferrin is found in small quantities in milk whey and the exocrine secretions of mammals. It is released from neutrophil granules during inflammation and is the main source of lactoferrin in blood plasma. lactoferrin is considered a multifunctional or multi-tasking protein that influences the immune system at the cellular (lymphocytes, phagocytes, neutrophils, natural killer cells) and molecular (cytokines, interleukins, tumor necrosis factor, granulocyte-monocyte stimulating factor) levels. It plays several biological roles and has antibacterial, antiviral, anti fungal, anti-inflammatory, antioxidant and immunomodulatory activities. It affects growth and proliferation of a variety of infectious agents both Gram- positive (Streptococcus pyogenese, Staphylococcus aureus, Listeria monocytogenese) and Gram negative (E. coli, Pseudomonas aeruginosa, Yersinia enterocolica) and other bacteria. It is of interest that while lactoferrin inhibits growth of iron-dependant bacteria, in certain cases in contrast it may serve as an iron donor, and in this manner support the growth of some beneficial bacteria with low iron demands such as Lactobacillus and Bifidobacterium species.

The bacterial growth inhibitory activity of lactoferrin due to its iron binding properties makes it of grate importance in SUPPRETION OF BACTERIAL BIOFILM FORMATION discussed bellow.

TRANSFERRIN:

Transferrin like lactoferrin is an iron binding glycoprotein that constitutes 7.5 to 8% of bovine immunoglobulin (see review bovine immunoglobulin). Similar to lactoferrin, it inhibits multiplication and growth of certain viral, bacterial and fungal organisms by iron inhibition. This property of transferrin has been known for a long time and was shown by this writer in 1968 to inhibit mycobacterial growth as part of his Ph.D. dissertation and by subsequent publications.

BIOFILMS:

Antimicrobial factors constitute one arm of the innate immune system which protect
mucosal surfaces from bacterial infections. These factors can rapidly kill bacteria and micro organisms deposited on mucosal surfaces and prevent acute, invasive infections. In many chronic infections, however, bacteria live in complex structures called biofilms. Biofilms are collections of microbial communities encased by a matrix of negatively charged polysaccharides held together by positively charged calcium, magnesium and ironic ions. Within the biofilm the bacteria are protected from immune attack, antibiotics, UV radiation, dehydration, toxic metals and salinity. Further, the matrix allows for free intracellular interactions, exchange of genetic materials, necessary metabolites and nutrients. Given these facts, it is therefore clear that, disruption of biofilm formation from free living independent organisms is of paramount importance in controlling infections. Ample evidence exists that iron binding components of the innate immune system, namely lactoferrin and transferrin (see reviews) fulfill this function. Lactoferrin stimulates twitching, a specialized form of surface motility, causing the bacteria to wander across the surface instead of forming cell clusters and biofilms.

Other chelators such as ethylenediaminetetraacetic acid (EDTA) induce dispersal and killing of certain biofilms such as Staph and Pseudomonas species such as P.aeruginosa an exceptionally vicious and devastating infection. The combination of EDTA and antibiotics are effective biofilm disrupters.

Immunoglobulins (see reviw immunoglobulins), probiotics (see review probiotics and prebiotics-inulin ) and enzymes are other adjunctive therapies that help fight infections and biofilm formation.

Here is more info:

[The role of lactoferrin in the iron metabolism. Part II. Antimicrobial and antiinflammatory effect of lactoferrin by chelation of iron].

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21160095

Lactoferrin (LF) is a glycoprotein widely distributed in mammalian organisms. It is synthesized by epithelial cells; hence it is present in secretions of mucous membranes. It is also contained in secondary granules of neutrophils and released to the circulation during trauma, infection or inflammation. LF belongs to the transferrin family--proteins binding iron ions with a high affinity. Upon isolation in 1961 LF was initially called a red, iron-binding protein. LF's ability to bind iron is associated with other functions which the protein fulfils in the body. As described in the part I. of the article, LF participates in acquisition of iron from food and its storage in the body, and to a certain degree also in iron transport to cells. In this part of the article the effect of LF in combating microorganisms by chelating iron is described. The iron-chelating property of LF renders iron inaccessible to the pathogens, thus restricting their growth. Iron, due to its participation in many metabolic processes, is an essential element for almost all microorganisms. Iron is not easily accessible for pathogens within the host. Since iron is crucial for normal function of both pathogens and the host, an ability to acquire iron during infection is regarded as an important virulence factor. Higher vertebrates have evolved a complicated protection system of iron storage and LF is an important element of this system. Low iron-saturated LF effectively combats bacteria and fungi, acting in a bacteriostatic and fungistatic way. The degree of iron saturation also influences antiviral activity of LF. Some pathogens (e.g. Helicobacter pylori, Neisseria sp, Haemophilus influenzae) have evolved a system of siderophores or cellular receptors which can acquire iron from LF and transferrin. The so-called lactoferrin theory of hypoferremia in inflammation assumes, in addition, a protective role of the protein in inflammation, sepsis and trauma. LF, by chelation and storage of plasma iron in the liver and spleen, temporarily restricts its accessibility for microorganisms and processes of formation of toxic, reactive oxygen species, which contributes to the amelioration of inflammatory states.

The free full text is available above in the link.

I still have to receive the books I ordered about iron and looking forward to learn which are my iron and related levels. This is an intriguing concept and topic!
 
Psyche said:
The free full text is available above in the link.

It is all in Polish!

Anyway, here are a few concepts from a review. As it happens, lactoferrin is the second most abundant protein in colostrum and due to its properties, it was recommended for healing the gut, a place which seems to coincide with iron's pro-inflammatory role in general health. But it seems its anti-viral, anti-fungal, anti-bacterial and anti-parasitic capabilities, other than anti-inflammatory and anti-carcinogenic effects, lies not only in its capacity to bind iron, but also in its immune system effects. It is hard to know if it is due to chelating iron, or to other magical properties of lactoferrin itself.

Lactoferrin (LF) is a non-haem iron-binding protein that is part
of the transferrin protein family, along with serum transferrin,
ovotransferrin, melanotransferrin and the inhibitor of carbonic
anhydrase [1], whose function is to transport iron in blood serum.

[...]

This glycoprotein is found in mucosal secretions,
including tears, saliva, vaginal fluids, semen [3], nasal and bronchial
secretions, bile, gastrointestinal fluids, urine [4] and most highly in
milk and colostrum (7 g/L) [5], making it the second most abundant
protein in milk [6], after caseins. It can also be found in bodily
fluids such as blood plasma and amniotic fluid. LF is also found in
considerable amounts in secondary neutrophil granules (15g/106
neutrophils) [7], where it plays a significant physiological role. LF
possesses a greater iron-binding affinity and is the only transferrin
with the ability to retain this metal over a wide pH range [8],
including extremely acidic pH.
It also exhibits a greater resistance to
proteolysis. In addition to these differences, LF’s net positive charge
and its distribution in various tissues make it a multifunctional
protein. It is involved in several physiological functions, including:
regulation of iron absorption in the bowel; immune response;
antioxidant, anticarcinogenic and anti-inflammatory properties;
and protection againstmicrobial infection, whichis themost widely
studied function to date.
The antimicrobial activity of LF is mostly
due to two mechanisms. The first is iron sequestration in sites
of infection, which deprives the microorganism of this nutrient,
thus creating a bacteriostatic effect. The other mechanism is the
direct interaction of the LF molecule with the infectious agent.
The positive amino acids in LF can interact with anionic molecules
on some bacterial, viral, fungal and parasite surfaces, causing cell
lysis.

Considering the physiological capabilities of LF in host defence,
in addition to current pharmaceutical and nutritional needs, LF is
considered to be a nutraceutical and for several decades investigators
have searched for the most convenient way to produce it.
Today, we can obtain it as native LF isolated mostly from the milk
and colostrum of several mammals, or as recombinant LF (rLF)
generated from bacterial, fungal and viral expression systems. The
expression of this protein has also been attained in higher organisms
such as plants and mammals.[...]

Antiviral activity

LF possesses antiviral activity against a broad range of RNA and
DNA viruses that infect humans and animals
[3].
Human respiratory syncytial virus is inhibited by LF at concentrations
ten times lower than those found in human milk. LF
also acts against non-enveloped viruses such as adenoviruses and
enteroviruses [35].
Human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) remains amajor medical
challenge, since current treatment of the syndrome that it causes is
not completely effective. In vitro studies show that, among human
plasma and milk proteins, LF exerts a strong activity against HIV.
This effect is due to inhibition of viral replication in the host cell
[36].
The antiviral mechanisms of LF have not yet been characterised.
LF can block the internalisation of certain viruses into the host cell,
such as poliovirus type 1 which causes poliomyelitis in humans
[37], herpes simplex virus types I and II [38] and cytomegalovirus
[39]. For other viruses, such as hepatitis C virus (HCV) [40] and
rotavirus [41], rather than preventing entry LF inhibits viral replication
in the host cell.

Several mechanisms of action have been proposed for LF’s
antiviral effects (Fig. 3). One of the most widely accepted hypotheses
is that LF binds to and blocks glycosaminoglycan viral receptors,
especially heparan sulfate (HS). The binding of LF and HS prevents
the first contact between virus and host cell and therefore prevents
the infection [3].
The antiviral effect of LF has also been observed in viruses that
infect animals, such as the Friend virus complex, which causes erythroleukaemia
in rodents [42], the feline calicivirus [43] and feline
immunodeficiency virus [44].[...]

Paper is attached. ADDED: I had to remove it because it was too big for an attachment doc.

The first paragraphs mentions melanotransferrrin and other iron binding proteins that we have. They are like in the drawing board, or so it seems according to wiki:

_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melanotransferrin

Melanotransferrin is a protein that in humans is encoded by the MFI2 gene. MFI2 has also recently been designated CD228 (cluster of differentiation 228).

The protein encoded by this gene is a cell-surface glycoprotein found on melanoma cells. The protein shares sequence similarity and iron-binding properties with members of the transferrin superfamily. The importance of the iron binding function has not yet been identified. This gene resides in the same region of chromosome 3 as members of the transferrin superfamily.

And this abstract:

_http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21933697

Melanotransferrin: search for a function.

Which just sounds like the body is over-expressing this stuff so it can get rid of the excess iron.
 
Gandalf said:
Perceval said:
What did your level increase to after going paleo/keto?


My hemoglobin increased from something around 14 to something around 17. It was really too high so I had to do something.

Right now my season of skate skiing is finished and I am doing less exercice so my hemoglobin has restarted to increase again. Last monday, I was at 16.

Will see next monday. However while waiting for the biking season, I started last monday to practise the Afghan Walking.

Well, today my hemoglobin was 16,8 (still increasing) and my hematocrit was 51.
 
Scott - Kontoghiorghes published a 1993 letter to the editor in The Lancet called "Misinformation about deferiprone (L1)" and it's vanished. As for the 1986 paper you mentioned (using rabbits), I have the .pdf of his 1986 one using mice but it's too big to attach. I assume it's more or less the same stuff. Basically he says that the deferiprone-like molecules [i.e. the α‐keto hydroxypyridines] do just as well as deferoxamine, if not better. (This 2009 paper says that deferoxamine promotes staph aureus.) Attached is a .docx of the "Toxicity and Safety of Deferiprone" section from another of his collab papers.
 

Attachments

zlyja said:
Foxx said:
zlyja said:
I should've looked harder for a blood test before I donated, since my results are probably skewed, but I finally got one a week after I donated through this site that didn't require a doctor: http://www.healthcheckusa.com/Iron-Panel/46885/ (see if you have a LabCorp near you before you order anything).

Does the price on the website include everything? Or do you have to pay an additional fee for having blood drawn or some other fees?

Everything but the hospital parking, which was $3. :) I don't know where you live, though (I'm in Southern California), so it may be different for you. Also, if you decide to order through them, don't bother making an appointment at the LabCorp, since it ends up being "first come, first serve" no matter what time you arrive.

That seems pretty promising--thanks zlyja!
 
Foxx said:
zlyja said:
Foxx said:
zlyja said:
I should've looked harder for a blood test before I donated, since my results are probably skewed, but I finally got one a week after I donated through this site that didn't require a doctor: http://www.healthcheckusa.com/Iron-Panel/46885/ (see if you have a LabCorp near you before you order anything).

Does the price on the website include everything? Or do you have to pay an additional fee for having blood drawn or some other fees?

Everything but the hospital parking, which was $3. :) I don't know where you live, though (I'm in Southern California), so it may be different for you. Also, if you decide to order through them, don't bother making an appointment at the LabCorp, since it ends up being "first come, first serve" no matter what time you arrive.

That seems pretty promising--thanks zlyja!

Last Friday, I paid for a test online (Ferritin, Serum; http://www.healthtestingcenters.com/ferritin-serum.aspx) at Health Testing Centers, which costs about $39, but I signed up for a newsletter/coupon club, which gave me 15% discount. No doctor's order needed. And, this morning, I went to LapCorp, which requires an appointment if you want to go in quickly (which I made last week). While I was in the waiting room, I saw a sign that said, "Patients with Appointment are taken first before walk-ins." There were three people waiting at 8am as they were walk-ins and I showed up and was taken in first. I guess it depends on where you at.

I only am going for Ferritin test before I do anything else. So, I had my blood taken for the very first time, which is kinda an interesting experience. I've never seen that much blood coming out of me. I had no reaction to it. The other thing that I now know for sure - I'm not allergic to latex. :)

I won't hear about the results for a few days, and when I do, I'll see if I can go to Red Cross and donate my blood (and at the same time, have my blood tested).

ADDED:

ooh! The Iron Elephant just arrived - I'm onto devouring it... :cool2:
 
Foxx said:
zlyja said:
Foxx said:
zlyja said:
I should've looked harder for a blood test before I donated, since my results are probably skewed, but I finally got one a week after I donated through this site that didn't require a doctor: http://www.healthcheckusa.com/Iron-Panel/46885/ (see if you have a LabCorp near you before you order anything).

Does the price on the website include everything? Or do you have to pay an additional fee for having blood drawn or some other fees?

Everything but the hospital parking, which was $3. :) I don't know where you live, though (I'm in Southern California), so it may be different for you. Also, if you decide to order through them, don't bother making an appointment at the LabCorp, since it ends up being "first come, first serve" no matter what time you arrive.

That seems pretty promising--thanks zlyja!

Mine was complete too -- also from LabCorp -- but serum ferritin was a separate test, which doubled the cost. (it's the service linked in the post just before this one.) There was no charge for parking, but then it wasn't at a hospital; it was across the street from one. It came to $78 total ($39 per test), and there was no waiting; just sign in, draw blood, and leave.

This is easier than making bone broth. :) If you have reason to think you might have iron overload, go ahead and do it. Given my medical history and symptoms I am astonished that it was never mentioned or checked, but that is pretty much the theme of the book. I am waiting for the results now. It could be a day or two.
 
I received "Exposing the Hidden Dangers of Iron" during the evening so I started reading that... :O It is really jaw dropping so far and my edition is from 2004. Wonder how many more mutations they had found since then!

Interesting to read how two previously healthy persons who didn't had the hemochromatosis mutations, basically got the disease after a liver transplantation where both donors were positive for the mutations... One donor was heterozygote, the other one was homozygote for C283Y.
 
Is this maybe a clue based on the talked here about alfalfa and the iron issue?

Session November 29, 2001

Q: Is there anything that we are supposed to do regarding this upcoming
transition?
A: Yes.
Q: Can we know what it is?
A: Not yet!
Q: Is there anything we ought to be doing to prepare ourselves that we are not doing?
A: A little more attention to physical energy levels would be helpful.
Q: Which of course, suggests that physical energy is important and will be
needed in some way.
A: Remember to utilize alfalfa with spirulina.
 
Spirulina is very iron rich, but in the same time reported as a soft chelating agent... So, I don't know.
 
Tomek said:
Spirulina is very iron rich, but in the same time reported as a soft chelating agent... So, I don't know.

At the same time, alfalfa is apparently rich in inositol, which is an iron chelator. :huh:
 
LQB said:
This makes me wonder if an enzymatic protease might give a big boost to the concurrent EDTA/DMSA chelation.

The only thing I've found on this so far is from _http://www.enzymestuff.com/discussionmythbusters.htm

Enzymes and Chelator Interaction

Rumor-mill cranks out: If you are trying to use a designator chelator to remove heavy metals from your body, don't take digestive enzymes because the enzymes may break the chelator-bound heavy metal bond and free up the heavy metal once again.

Myth-buster: This doesn't happen. Consider that idea were so, then our own pancreatic enzymes would be responsible for the same action, and chelators would never be effective.

The enzymes in digestive enzyme products break specific bonds in specific food (organic) substances. These are not the type of bonds found when chelators bind mercury or other heavy metals. The bonds chelators form are special sulfur bonds.

Actually, most people with experience doing chelation and enzymes say that the addition of digestive enzymes significantly improved the effectiveness of their chelation or detoxification program.
 

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