Hemochromatosis and Autoimmune Conditions

While I was searching for additional informations regarding use of tobacco/nicotine because of its properties of raising blood hemoglobin and thus, possibly, adding up problems with Hemochromatosis due tobacco use, I've stumbled on this publication (_http://www.fasebj.org/content/20/8/1212.long) which says that it's quite the opposite, at least from the point of removing iron and other metals from brain in case of Alzheimer disease.

Nicotine inhibits amyloid formation, restrains Aβ deposition (16)⇓ , and attenuates Aβ peptide-induced neurotoxicity in hippocampal neurons (17)⇓ . Chronic nicotine treatment reduces Aβ plaque burdens in AD transgenic mice. Previous evidence has shown that nicotine might exert its neuroprotective effect by interacting with Aβ peptides (16⇓ , 18⇓ 19⇓ 20)⇓ . However, the precise mechanism is unclear. Since nicotine has shown its capacity to act as an iron chelator via its pyridine nitrogen group (21⇓ , 22)⇓ , nicotine may also contain the potential chelating capacity on other metals such as zinc or copper.

and since nicotine can pass blood-brain barrier:

To further clarify, if the effect of nicotine against the neurotoxicity induced by Aβ and metals is mediated by activation of nAChRs, then we used antagonists of nAChRs in our cell model experiments. Our data show that the inhibitory effects of nicotine on β-amyloidosis and Aβ-mediated neurotoxicity in the presence of copper are not suppressed by nAChR antagonists, suggesting that nicotine may act in a receptor-independent pathway. It has been shown that maternal nicotine exposure resulted in a reduction of the copper content in a neonatal lung (48)⇓ and that nicotine may chelate metals through pyridine nitrogen (21⇓ , 22)⇓ , and our theory-calculated results suggest that pyrrolidine nitrogen may also combined with metal (data not show). Indeed, nicotine reduces the levels of copper and zinc in senile plaques and neuropil (Fig. 5)⇓ , which counteracts the morbid metal accumulation. Taken together, our data suggest that nicotine may reduce β-amyloidosis by regulating metal homeostasis. Metal chelating agents have been considered as a potential therapeutic measure for treating AD (8)⇓ . However, the current development has raised some major concerns for these chelating reagents for that: 1) the target metals including copper, zinc, or iron are the essential trace-elements to the human body and discharging metals may cause many side-effects; and 2) the general metal chelators such as triene or penicillamine cannot pass across the blood-brain barrier, which limit their applications. Since nicotine contains a potential metal chelating capability and now we show that this could be a novel mechanism for the inhibitory effect of nicotine against amyloidosis, nicotine may be used as an alternative chelating agent that can overcome the problems mentioned above.

Although nicotine has been proven to have beneficial effect in neurodegenerative disease, the exactly mechanism is still unclear. Our data suggest the novel idea that nicotine may regulate the metal homeostasis. A better understanding of this mechanism of nicotine may conduce to our better understandings on the mechanism of nicotine in reducing β-amyloidosis.
 
If you decide to donate blood, your hemoglobin level will be tested (that's at least the standard procedure here in France) and if your level is lower than 13.0 g/dL, you'll be considered as anemic (iron deficiency) and you won't be allowed to give blood.

Yesterday I wanted to give blood and was tested at 12.8 and 12.9 (two tests were made, one after the other).

Being a bit disappointed I asked the doctor how to boost my hemoglobin level. She said I was anemic and I add to take more iron !!! :rolleyes:

Well, in the Iron Elephant, it is pretty clear that low level of hemoglobin is not due to a lack of iron but more likely to a lack of vitamin B. In particular B6 (niacin) and B12 (folic acid).

So yesterday, I took religiously B6 and B12 supplements, same this morning. I went again for blood donation this afternoon, and lo and behold this time my hemoglobin level was 13.5. That is in 24 hours my hemoglobin level increased by more than 5%.

I don't know if it's due to the calibration of their testing machine (the hemoglobin test was made in two different blood donation centers) and/or my take of vitamin B and/or some other cause but the result was quite unexpected. :)
 
Thanks for the above about nicotine, Regulattor. Amazing what you find when you start digging around with the right keywords.

We just got back from a "donation drive." That is, we traveled about 35 minutes to another region. I decanted 550 ml last Thursday and again, today (5 days between). I have about 7 or 8 more decantings to do before in a healthy range.

Today, I did feel a bit light-headed afterward, but not much. Mainly I felt like dancing, I swear!

Belibaste was refused at the local place YESTERDAY because his hemoglobin was too low (like one tenth of a point!). They told him to take iron. Well, instead, he took B6, B12 and Folate yesterday several times and again this morning. Today, his hemoglobin was a whole point higher!!! Just goes to show that it isn't iron people need when they are said to be "anemic". (He wasn't anemic, just a fraction under the donating level requirement and they "follow the rules".) My hemoglobin didn't fluctuate at all in the five days.

We have another couple of regions we can visit within easy driving distance and then we'll be on our own. But, by then, we'll all get the levels checked at the lab again to see how things are going.
 
nicklebleu said:
Gawan,

I don't know, but I would probably try to go it alone, if it's so hard AND if you have a high ferritin. You mentioned that you are on the anaemic side, so I would not decant the full 500ml, but only half of that and see what happensnto your hemoglobin. The decanting parphernalia should be obtainable through someone working at a hospital, in a pinch you can purchase most of this stuff on eBay.

I am actually looking into EDTA chelation therapy more in depth and will do a separate post once I am through with it ... but this might be more appropriate in your case. I would be very surprised if one of the mainstream doctors would go along with bloodletting you.

Thanks. As long I have a chance that somebody does it, I take it and would be the last option or I could threaten the doc, I you don't do it, than I do it myself ;). Anyway, I have an appointment for blood letting next week at the alternative practitioner (only I need to be with an empty stomach, so I will walk really slow to the appointment). And I could convince her not to eat a dinkel breakfast afterwards and stick to (lean) meat. Than I got the referring for the haematologist from my doc and a pretty early appointment and not several months time of waiting.

Regulattor said:
While I was searching for additional informations regarding use of tobacco/nicotine because of its properties of raising blood hemoglobin and thus, possibly, adding up problems with Hemochromatosis due tobacco use, I've stumbled on this publication (_http://www.fasebj.org/content/20/8/1212.long) which says that it's quite the opposite, at least from the point of removing iron and other metals from brain in case of Alzheimer disease.

The opposite statement I read in this book: ,,The Iron Disorders Institute Guide to Hemochromatosis", that smoking is not recommended and meat as well, but I'm personally not sure about it. And looks like a good find-
 
Belibaste said:
If you decide to donate blood, your hemoglobin level will be tested (that's at least the standard procedure here in France) and if your level is lower than 13.0 g/dL, you'll be considered as anemic (iron deficiency) and you won't be allowed to give blood.

Yesterday I wanted to give blood and was tested at 12.8 and 12.9 (two tests were made, one after the other).

Being a bit disappointed I asked the doctor how to boost my hemoglobin level. She said I was anemic and I add to take more iron !!! :rolleyes:

It is exactly the same procedure here. Moreover if your hemoglobin is too high, you can not give blood and they will tell you that it is very dangerous since your blood is too thick.

Belibaste said:
Well, in the Iron Elephant, it is pretty clear that low level of hemoglobin is not due to a lack of iron but more likely to a lack of vitamin B. In particular B6 (niacin) and B12 (folic acid).

So yesterday, I took religiously B6 and B12 supplements, same this morning. I went again for blood donation this afternoon, and lo and behold this time my hemoglobin level was 13.5. That is in 24 hours my hemoglobin level increased by more than 5%.

I don't know if it's due to the calibration of their testing machine (the hemoglobin test was made in two different blood donation centers) and/or my take of vitamin B and/or some other cause but the result was quite unexpected. :)

So far, I have been tested more than 1100 times for my hemoglobin and since my hemoglobin has varied quite a lot over the years, I have made an hypothesis that there is a correlation between the hemoglobin level and
1. What you have eaten before the test
2. If you had a good night
3. If it is hot or cold outside and how your body is reacting to that
4. If you are stressed or not
 
Laura said:
We just got back from a "donation drive." That is, we traveled about 35 minutes to another region. I decanted 550 ml last Thursday and again, today (5 days between). I have about 7 or 8 more decantings to do before in a healthy range.

...

We have another couple of regions we can visit within easy driving distance and then we'll be on our own. But, by then, we'll all get the levels checked at the lab again to see how things are going.

There is no way that we can do that here. All the data are kept in a central database and you can not give blood more than once every 56 days. However, you can give plasma every week.
 
Belibaste said:
Well, in the Iron Elephant, it is pretty clear that low level of hemoglobin is not due to a lack of iron but more likely to a lack of vitamin B. In particular B6 (niacin) and B12 (folic acid).

Just for clarification, B6 is pyridoxine, B3 is niacin, B12 is (methyl)cobalamin, folic acid/folate is B9 :)
 
One note that I forgot to mention earlier, if you order tests through a website:

ironoverload.org recommends three tests, to be performed from one blood draw. It also recommends a 12-hour fast before the draw. If you order the tests online then fasting will probably not be mentioned, but if you want to follow the IOD recommendation then you should do it anyway.
 
Gandalf said:
There is no way that we can do that here. All the data are kept in a central database and you can not give blood more than once every 56 days.

It's the same here as I just found out (referring to Red Cross - they keep the database of everyone "for safety").
 
Zadius Sky said:
Gandalf said:
There is no way that we can do that here. All the data are kept in a central database and you can not give blood more than once every 56 days.

It's the same here as I just found out (referring to Red Cross - they keep the database of everyone "for safety").

Makes it tough. The problems faced are:

1) HIGH medical costs to see a doctor.
2) Most doctors you see wouldn't know iron overload from their big toe so your money would be wasted.
3) If you do have iron overload and no money or insurance, you could die from it. At the very least, you could suffer a lot.

Solutions would be:

1) Minimize expenses by:
a) learning every thing you can about the condition.
b) get tested by a low-cost lab directly.
2) Find a friend who is a professional who will help you decant.
3) Learn how to decant yourself.

Can anybody think of anything else?
 
Laura said:
Can anybody think of anything else?

It's hard to find good research on effects of training on ferritin, but this is what I found:

Anemia, clinical iron deficiency, is not rare among runners, but even more common than iron deficiency is "iron depletion" due to low ferritin stores. Ferritin is an iron-containing protein that is primarily responsible for iron storage in the bone marrow. It is common among distance runners to have acceptable hemoglobin and hematocrit counts even when ferritin levels are severely depleted. For less active people, low ferritin levels are much less significant and don't often draw the attention of medical professionals.

However, the results of low ferritin levels for distance runners are significant. While iron depletion rarely results in the general lethargy associated with true iron-deficiency anemia, distance runners with low ferritin will likely experience abnormal exhaustion, increased blood lactate, slow recovery, declining performances, heavy legs, muscular tightness, loss of motivation, and substantially increased risk of injury. Does any of this sound familiar?

And there's more. Overuse injuries (the type of injuries distance runners get) double with ferritin levels under 20 and triple with levels under 12. I think it's safe to suggest that iron depletion is rarely considered to be the root cause of these injuries. Instead we focus on mileage, running surfaces, shoes and the other usual suspects. If you were nodding your head thinking the previous symptoms sound like a checklist of your most recent season, go get your serum ferritin tested.

People within the medical and running communities have been aware of anemia for decades, but the prevalence and severe impact of iron depletion (low ferritin) is still far too much of a secret. The normal range for serum ferritin levels depends on whom you talk to. I have read everything from 50-150 nanograms per milliliter (ng/ml) to 10-300 ng/ml. However, we know that the lower the ferritin level, even within the "normal" range, the more likely a person is iron depleted. Virtually all female distance runners who have been training for a year or more are well below 50 ng/ml unless they take supplemental iron.

At South Eugene High School, we became aware of the consequences of low iron in the spring of 2001 when three of our female distance runners all came back from blood tests with ferritin levels below 10 ng/ml. All three had all run their best times two years before but had been plagued with injuries and frustration since. During those two years, they had multiple blood tests, but the doctors never checked their serum ferritin levels.

Within four weeks of beginning an aggressive supplementation program, all three felt substantially more energy while running; their enthusiasm and joy for running returned, and they began to run much faster. Within two months, their levels were between 35 and 55 ng/ml. All three went on to compete collegiately and ran times far superior to what they ran in high school.

Since that initial experience, we have suggested that all the girls on the team have complete iron tests. Only five out of the dozens who have been tested, have been within the acceptable range for serum ferritin, and those five were either big meat eaters or had been taking supplemental iron for years. Half of the girls tested have been below 12 ng/ml.

_http://www.trackandfieldnews.com/hs/coachscorner/20051215.html

Besides running, many other types of training have been shown to decrease ferritin level. When young men and women underwent a 7-week (8h/day) military-type basic training pro­gramme, ferritin levels fell an average of 50% and haemoglobin levels fell more than 5% (Maga-zanik et al. 1988). When untrained men cycled 2h/day four to five times a week for 11 weeks, mean serum ferritin fell 73%, from 67 to 18µg *l-1(Shoemaker et al. 1996).

(...)

Even strength training decreases ferritin, as shown by the 35% fall in ferritin in 12 untrained men who underwent a 6-week strength-training programme (Schobersberger et al. 1990).

Page 329: _http://books.google.rs/books?id=QjgKLQWFm6QC&printsec=frontcover&hl=sr&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

A recent study examined the effects of a sixweek high-intensity interval training programme, followed by two weeks’ recovery, on iron status in trained cyclists.(1) Dietary intake was monitored to ensure that iron intake remained consistent throughout the study, but by the end of week three, haemoglobin, haematocrit and red blood cell count (three different markers of iron status) were all depressed. Meanwhile, serum ferritin (a blood protein involved with iron storage) decreased significantly by week five and remained depressed even in the recovery phase. Total iron binding capacity (TIBC – a measure of a blood protein that transports iron from the gut to the cells that use it) was significantly increased after three weeks, suggesting low iron stores. And the researchers suggested that this reduction could be sufficient over time to have an adverse effect on aerobic cycling performance.

Iron loss as a result of endurance exercise has been confirmed in other studies. For example, a large and comprehensive study examined the effects of different types of exercise on the iron status of 747 athletes divided into three groups (power, mixed and endurance sports) compared with untrained controls.(2) The researchers found that the endurance athletes had reduced levels of haemoglobin and haematocrit which was mainly attributable to exercise-induced plasma volume expansion: in other words, the same amount of iron carrying compounds were present, but diluted in a larger volume of plasma. However, they also found that physical activity of increasing volume and duration led to decreased ferritin (an iron storage protein) levels, which were particularly pronounced in runners. This was probably a result of haemolysis – the breakdown and destruction of red blood cells caused by the physical pounding action of running, leading to the release and loss of iron.

This effect of endurance training on iron status has been demonstrated even in very young athletes. An eight-month study examined elite swimmers in the 10-12 age bracket and compared them with non-active controls.(3) Although swimming is regarded as a ‘non-traumatic’ activity, during the competition phase the elite swimmers suffered significant decreases in serum ferritin and iron stores by comparison with the controls.

At the same time, the swimmers showed significantly higher levels of a new and highly sensitive indicator of tissue iron status known as ‘serum transferrin receptor concentration’ (STFR). When cells require more iron, they signal this need by increasing the number of transferrin receptors on their surface; a small proportion of these receptors actually come off the cell surface and are carried into the blood stream, where they can be measured. A high serum transferrin receptor concentration is, therefore, related to iron deficiency at a truly fundamental level – within the cells or tissues.

(...)

However, although many previous human studies have found suggestive relationships between mild iron deficiency without anaemia and reduced aerobic performance, many of these findings have failed to reach statistical significance – ie the results were not sufficiently clear cut to draw reliable conclusions and were probably clouded by the inclusion of subjects with both normal and deficient tissue-iron status.

The problem has been that until recently there has been no definitive test for a real ‘tissue iron deficiency’. While measures like serum ferritin, total iron binding capacity (TIBC) and transferrin saturation do give a much clearer picture of an athlete’s iron status than a simple blood haemoglobin test, they still don’t tell the whole story – only whether an athlete is within certain ‘normal’ ranges.

They say that every cloud has a silver lining, and it seems that a really definitive test has emerged from the battle to detect erythropoietin (EPO) abuse in athletes. The use of EPO to artificially enhance the red blood cell count (and therefore the blood’s oxygen-carrying capacity) in endurance athletes is believed to have become widespread during the mid-to-late 80s; and in the search to come up with a reliable test for possible EPO abuse, a new marker of iron status was identified – serum transferrin receptor concentration (STFR). As we’ve already seen, STFR is an excellent indicator of tissue iron status because it actually shows how ‘hungry’ the cells are for iron.

A marker of iron status

The use of STFR as a marker of iron status is at the centre of some very new US research, which suggests that tissue iron deficiency without anaemia can not only impair aerobic performance but also blunt the adaptations that occur following aerobic training. In the first study, 41 untrained iron-depleted but non-anaemic women were randomly assigned to receive either a twicedaily iron supplement or placebo for six weeks.(11) From week three of the study, all the subjects trained on cycle ergometers five days a week.

As expected, iron supplementation significantly improved several markers of iron status, including serum ferritin, transferrin saturation and serum transferrin receptor (STFR) concentrations, yet this occurred without affecting blood haemoglobin concentrations or haematocrit. And, while the average VO2max and maximal respiratory exchange ratio (a measure of how efficiently oxygen is used in aerobic metabolism) improved in both groups after training, the iron group experienced significantly greater improvements in VO2max.

When the researchers analysed the results for relationships between the iron status markers and the measured improvements, it became apparent that it was the STFR concentrations that held the key. In the women whose STFR levels had been greater than 8mg per litre, taking extra iron produced a significant increase in VO2max above and beyond that produced by training alone; (remember, higher STFR levels indicate that the cells are signalling they need to take up more iron). Conversely, in women with STFR levels below 8mg per litre there were no significant benefits to iron supplementation.

The same researchers followed up with another study designed to investigate the role of tissue iron status in the impairment of endurance adaptation, using STFR as the main marker of tissue iron deficiency.(12) Using a very similar testing protocol, 51 iron-depleted but nonanaemic women were selected and randomly assigned to supplementation with either iron or placebo, undergoing five days a week of training on the cycle ergometer (between 75 and 85% of max heart rate) from week three of the six-week supplementation period. At the end of the study, all of the women completed three consecutive 5k time trials with only a short rest between trials. STFR measurements were taken at the beginning, middle and end of the study.

The researchers were particularly interested to see what differences emerged between women with raised levels of STFR and those without, and also how the former were affected by iron supplementation. The results showed that it was the raised STFR group who benefited from iron supplementation, working at a significantly lower percentage of their maximum work capacity during the first and second 5k bouts (indicating improved aerobic efficiency) and showing the largest overall improvement as a result of the training regime, especially by comparison with raised STFR subjects on placebo.

This placebo group reduced their time trial times by an average of only 36 seconds, compared with 3mins 24secs for the raised STFR/iron supplemented group. Moreover, the raised STFR/placebo group had to work at a higher percentage of their VO2max than the iron group for their relatively negligible improvement! Given that all the women in this study were assessed as iron depleted but non-anaemic, the researchers came to two main conclusions:

[list type=decimal]
[*]Iron depletion as measured by serum ferritin was not a reliable indicator of how the women adapted to training. All the women in the placebo group had depleted serum ferritin, but only those with raised STFR suffered an impaired training response. Moreover, in the iron group extra iron only helped those with raised STFR levels. While iron raised serum ferritin levels, it did not produce any significant performance increase in women whose STFR was already below the 8mg per litre baseline. It appears, therefore, that STFR is a far more reliable measure of a truly ‘functional’ tissue iron deficiency;

[*]iron tissue deficiency not only reduces VO2max but also impairs the body’s ability to adapt to an aerobic training load (probably due to a decrease in the iron-containing proteins involved in aerobic energy production), with serious implications for athletes!
[/list]

Testing for iron status is also far from straightforward. A low blood haemoglobin (Hb) measurement only appears in the very advanced stages of iron deficiency. It’s perfectly possible to have a normal blood Hb level while suffering severe effects from a tissue deficiency.

However, the latest research suggests that, although better then Hb alone, even these tests are insufficient to assess the real need for iron at the cellular level. For example, a reduced serum ferritin concentration generally indicates depletion of the iron stores; but, as the studies mentioned above showed, a reduced serum ferritin does not necessarily mean that performance will suffer because tissue iron stores may not actually be depleted. Serum ferritin is also what’s known as an ‘acute phase protein’, which means that concentrations are raised during inflammatory conditions. Thus, serum ferritin may be normal (or even raised) in an athlete with such a condition even if he or she is genuinely iron deficient. To determine the real need for iron, a serum transferrin receptor test is the best on offer, although it is relatively new and may not be readily available from your GP.

_http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/iron-deficiency.html
 
Persej said:
Laura said:
Can anybody think of anything else?

It's hard to find good research on effects of training on ferritin, but this is what I found:

Thanks for that Persej. This suggests to me that maybe some aerobic training along with strength/resistance training might help with the ferritin levels and the STFR test might be a good measure of efficacy.

Though, I'm not likely to hop on a bike and do 2 hrs/5-6 times a week. It would be nice to find out how much can be gained by 30min/2-3 times a week.
 
One of my lab results -- serum ferritin -- has come back. At least it is clearly high: 432 (for some reason I was worried about borderline readings). I don't thoroughly understand this measure, but I understand that this is not a good reading, whatever the cause. With regard to iron overload I think I need to have the TS (transferrin saturation) ratio before drawing conclusions. That result should be arriving soon.
 
seek10 said:
I got my ferritin levels before the blood donation. It is 282 and result sheet says 30-400 as normal range.That is not normal based on the above research. I am also doing dna test and see what comes out and avoiding LPC for now. Though I occasionally drink tea that little caffine with lunch, I will have to make it regular and see how it helps chronic anxiety and hyper sensitivity to stress I am suffering from.

I got my test results. In short

Right side of --> is current values
- Genetrack Hemochromatosis Test : Normal
- Serum Ferritin : decreased from 282 (ref: 30-400) before blood donation --> 196 (ref: 30-400) 2 weeks after blood donation .
Iron and TIBC
TESTS RESULT UNITS REFERENCE INTERVAL
Iron Bind.Cap.(TIBC) 292 ug/dL 250 − 450
UIBC 240 ug/dL 150 − 375
Iron, Serum 52 ug/dL 40 − 155
Iron Saturation 18 % 15 − 55

I will ask for the blood decantation prescription tomorrow. Not sure he will agree or not since as per panel it is normal for him.

- TSH reduced from 7.85 ( 10 months back ) ---> 6.0 ( current value)

Thyroid Antibodies (Current Values)


Thyroid Peroxidase (TPO) Ab <6 IU/mL 0 − 34
Antithyroglobulin Ab <20 IU/mL 0 − 40

Siemens (DPC) ICMA Methodology
Thyroxine (T4) Free, Direct, S
T4,Free(Direct) 1.18 ng/dL 0.82 − 1.77 02

TSH -6 is still high. He will give a prescription for thyroid, which I will not fill. Not sure what to do with thyroid issue though.

- T3 and T4 looks normal range as per report ( 10 months back and now)

- Low back x-ray for my low back ache : Doctor don’t think any issue there . After 2 weeks of train commute, the back ache seems to have reduced also.

- White blood cells :
WBC : Decreased from 5.3 ( 10 months back) (ref: 4.0 – 10.5) --> 2.3 (ref: 4.0 – 10.5) LOW .
Neutrophils : 75 ( 10 months back ) ( ref: 40-74) HIGH --> 63 ( ref: 40-74) NORMAL
Neutrophils (Absolute ) : 4.0 ( 10 months back) (ref: 1.8-7.8) NORMAL -->1.7 (ref: 1.8- 7.8 ) LOW
Doctor is concerned ( over phone) about this white blood cells and wants to know what I am eating. Tomorrow I have a appointment to discuss this. Nothing has changed as for as I know.
- Ketones, Total Cholestrol ( 248 ( ref: 100-199) ) , LDL cholesterol calc ( 165 ( ref :0-99) are HIGH
.
Doctor will give his speech of milk, greens, avoid meat etc. I will gently reject or ignore.

- Nothing else abnormal from Lipid panel, Heavy Metal Panel, Basic Metabolic Panel, CBC panel.
 
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