Hemochromatosis and Autoimmune Conditions

[Gawan]

Gawan, send me your shipping addy in a PM and I'll send you a bottle of EDTA. I have a spare one.

Thanks and will be done.

Gawan are you wearing contact lenses?

No I don't, it is somehow the best way to describe it (and I'm not so good at in describing body symptoms) it is something between pressure and burning and a feeling that it is more difficult to close my eyes, also when my eyes are not swollen.

 

[shijing]

My copy of The Iron Elephant just came in the mail, so hopefully some of the rest of you who've been waiting will see your copies soon too.

 

[Michal]

Hi All,

I have received my blood test today:

Serum Iron: 102 ug / dl
TIBC: 260 ug / dl
UIBC: 158 ug / dl
Transferrin: 213 mg / dl
Ferritin: 353 ng / ml

Transferrin saturation: (Iron / TIBC)x100% = 39 %
Rest of blood work looks find... except CRP and monocytes elevated which may be related to ongoing acute sinusitis. This sinusitis reoccurred after two months and puncture made that time then prevents me for 6 months to donate blood until September.

The Iron Elephant arrived few days ago. EDTA Calcium Disodium arrived two weeks ago.
So how much of EDTA CD shall I apply orally? In index words in The Iron Elephant I have not noticed EDTA mentioned. Any guidance what to study in order to make chelation with EDTA Calcium Disodium? Anyone of You are using this bulk type EDTA?

Have You found anything about how to assess Iron Overload in kids? If it is in the book I will get it soon. If it is in another (not The Iron Elephant) and You know something let me know.


I have been using quite a lot of salt for last year (more than one year now on keto diet). I have chosen Himalayan salt as my source because this was the only one then without any additives (E-536 typically added or potassium iodide). However this Himalayan type has Iron. According to FDA (source http://www.saltnews.com/2012/03/are-there-dangerous-amounts-of-iron-in-salt/):

Himalayan Salt mg of Salt RDA of Salt mg Iron
1 teaspoon 6,100 100% 0.23729
2 teaspoons 12,200 200% 0.47458

Maybe there is not much (according to FDA daily Iron allowance is 18mg (also same website as above cited)) but still. I am going to limit my Himalayan salt usage from today and change it to normal salt without additives (found one today with surprisingly low price).

I have mentioned this although I do not know what may be influence of Himalayan salt on iron overload and this is my first blood test which says someting about iron and ferritin.

 

[Foxx]

However this Himalayan type has Iron. According to FDA (source http://www.saltnews.com/2012/03/are-there-dangerous-amounts-of-iron-in-salt/):

Himalayan Salt mg of Salt RDA of Salt mg Iron
1 teaspoon 6,100 100% 0.23729
2 teaspoons 12,200 200% 0.47458

Maybe there is not much (according to FDA daily Iron allowance is 18mg (also same website as above cited)) but still. I am going to limit my Himalayan salt usage from today and change it to normal salt without additives (found one today with surprisingly low price).

I have mentioned this although I do not know what may be influence of Himalayan salt on iron overload and this is my first blood test which says someting about iron and ferritin.

I don't think the salt would affect your iron levels very much to be something that should be removed. 0.23mg (230 micrograms) is not a lot at all and the salt has other trace elements that are beneficial--what salt would you be switching to? I think any sea salt with trace elements will likely have some iron in it (there are little red flecks that I assume are Iron in the Real Salt brand sea salt I've been using for a while) and I think throwing out the trace elements along with the iron would be akin to throwing the baby out with the bath water. Just my take, though, fwiw.

 

[monotonic]

We've got Real salt too with the red flecks. How do you deal with those? It seems like they would ruin your teeth. I only use it in drinks, and if I use it in cooking I dissolve it so the grit settles out.

 

[Foxx]

We've got Real salt too with the red flecks. How do you deal with those? It seems like they would ruin your teeth. I only use it in drinks, and if I use it in cooking I dissolve it so the grit settles out.

They're very fine in the salt I have (the "fine" grind probably), so I don't worry about them.

 

[Tomek]

I finally received my copy of The Iron Elephant from BCH yesterday. It took more than a month but it's here !

 

[adam7117]

Finally got around to getting the blood panel done - dang, my ferritin is high as well.

The tests are not entirely what I wanted - my doctor told me that the other iron measures are bogus and will vary day-to-day as well as a result of the diurnal cycle. He insisted that ferritin is all I needed to know. He is quite good and I respect him a lot, in fact, during the same consultation he helped me with a "prescription letter" to get some supplements. These are now only available over the counter with homeopathic practitioner's reference (rules are getting strict in Australia!).

My symptoms started this year and include increased hair loss and weird pains in the left leg. This is why I am following the thread with great attention. Also, I have not transitioned to a full ketogenic diet (paleo mainly with a large percentage of meat in the diet) - although, I am in ketosis regularly, and have been in and out of it for years. Having tried the keto sticks, now I can properly associate the "feeling" of it - as well as the acetone issues. I was amazed really, and think that alpha lipoic acid has a lot to do with it - as well as irregular eating patterns (e.g., skipping brekkie).

The results took a while because the doc surgery didn't call me with the results - the doctor deemed them to be normal with no action required (I thought there was a delay duh). I have major issues with drawing blood, blood tests, syringes - anything of that nature. So phlebotomy is out of the question but I intend to give EDTA a go. All in good time.

I don't really understand what most of this means (working on it, though it is challenging) - could someone please help me out with a quick thumbs up or down? Is this all good - apart from the ferritin? Also, does it matter that my units are different than elsewhere - e.g., ferritin is in [ug/L].

CUMULATIVE THYROID FUNCTION TESTS
TSH 0.9 mU/L (0.40-4.00)


CUMULATIVE IRON STUDIES
Ferritin 270 ug/L (20-320)


CUMULATIVE FULL BLOOD EXAMINATION
Hb 151 g/L (135-180)
RCC 4 .8 x10^12/L (4.2-6.0)
Hct 0.45 (0.38-0.52)
MCV 94 fL (80-98)
MCH 32 pg (27-35)
Plats 245 x10^9/L (150-450)
WCC 9.2 x10^9/L (4.0-11.0)
Neuts 4.6 x10^9/L (2.0-7.5) 50%
Lymphs 3.8 x10^9/L (1.1-4.0) 41%
Monos 0.7 x10^9/L (0.2-1.0) 8%
Eos 0.09 x10^9/L (0.04-0.40) 1%
Basos 0.00 x10^9/L (< 0.21) 0%


CUMULATIVE SERUM BIOCHEMISTRY
Sodium 141 mmol/L (137-147)
Potass. 4.4 mmol/L (3.5-5.0)
Chloride 104 mmol/L (96-109)
Bicarb 28 mmol/L (25-33)
An.Gap 13 mmol/L (4-17)
Gluc 4.9 mmol/L (3.0-7.7)
Urea 5.6 mmol/L (2.5-8.0)
Creat 84 umol/L (60-130)
eGFR > 90 mL/min (over 59)
Urate 0.26 mmol/L (0.12-0.45)
T.Bili 11 umol/L (2-20)
Alk.P 66 U/L (30-115)
GGT 18 U/L (0-70)
ALT 18 U/L (0-45)
AST 24 U/L (0-41)
LD 169 U/L (80-250)
Calcium 2.31 mmol/L (2.25-2.65)
Corr.Ca 2.30 mmol/L (2.25-2.65)
Phos 1.2 mmol/L (0.8-1.5)
T.Prot 71 g/L (60-82)
Alb 43 g/L (35-50)
Glob 28 g/L (20-40)
Chol 5.1 mmol/L (3.6-6.7)
Trig 0.7 mmol/L (0.3-4.0)

 

[Gawan]

My symptoms started this year and include increased hair loss and weird pains in the left leg. This is why I am following the thread with great attention. Also, I have not transitioned to a full ketogenic diet (paleo mainly with a large percentage of meat in the diet) - although, I am in ketosis regularly, and have been in and out of it for years. Having tried the keto sticks, now I can properly associate the "feeling" of it - as well as the acetone issues. I was amazed really, and think that alpha lipoic acid has a lot to do with it - as well as irregular eating patterns (e.g., skipping brekkie).

Just to drop a small note, getting in and out of ketosis is not healthy and eventually dangerous too, because you fuel your body with different fuels, that means with ketones and carbs and these are entirely different processes. At least something to keep in mind and to take care of, so that you do not do yourself more harm!

 

[Gaby]

The results took a while because the doc surgery didn't call me with the results - the doctor deemed them to be normal with no action required (I thought there was a delay duh). I have major issues with drawing blood, blood tests, syringes - anything of that nature. So phlebotomy is out of the question but I intend to give EDTA a go. All in good time.

I don't really understand what most of this means (working on it, though it is challenging) - could someone please help me out with a quick thumbs up or down? Is this all good - apart from the ferritin? Also, does it matter that my units are different than elsewhere - e.g., ferritin is in [ug/L].

Blood tests look good apart from the ferritin. Perhaps some pipe breathing will do? Those levels will be tackled rather easy with blood donations with EDTA as a complementary therapy.

You can lay down, close your eyes, pipe breath. Either or, EDTA is a good start.

 

[adam7117]

Just to drop a small note, getting in and out of ketosis is not healthy and eventually dangerous too, because you fuel your body with different fuels, that means with ketones and carbs and these are entirely different processes. At least something to keep in mind and to take care of, so that you do not do yourself more harm!

Blood tests look good apart from the ferritin. Perhaps some pipe breathing will do? Those levels will be tackled rather easy with blood donations with EDTA as a complementary therapy.

You can lay down, close your eyes, pipe breath. Either or, EDTA is a good start.

Thanks for your quick responses, Gawan and Psyche. Yes, I am quite aware of the possible dangers of going in and out of ketosis - well, at least I took it under advice after reading that on the forum. In my case, it is mainly due to irregular eating patterns - skipping meals/fasting is way too easy for me. If I also happen to taka ALA in the morning - bang - I'm in ketosis. Though, it is a nice feeling to have an empty stomach and my body seems to thrive on it...

Because I am mindful of the carbs now, too, I tend to eat a lot of fatty meats. So it is not very surprising that iron accumulation is approaching dangerous levels. Haven't got the balance quite right, yet.

Psyche, thank you for the analysis. Pipe breathing - of course... I don't do it as much as I should and that makes me feel guilt and disappointment. Cheers for pulling me up on that. :)

 

[clearmiddle]

...
Just to drop a small note, getting in and out of ketosis is not healthy and eventually dangerous too, because you fuel your body with different fuels, that means with ketones and carbs and these are entirely different processes. At least something to keep in mind and to take care of, so that you do not do yourself more harm!

Why do you say that? You are going to be burning glucose no matter what. You can't live without it. And everybody has some level of ketones, although it is relatively low if you don't eat a ketogenic diet.

There is evidence that high carb intake combined with high fat intake is unhealthy. Is that what you were thinking of?

 

[Gawan]

...
Just to drop a small note, getting in and out of ketosis is not healthy and eventually dangerous too, because you fuel your body with different fuels, that means with ketones and carbs and these are entirely different processes. At least something to keep in mind and to take care of, so that you do not do yourself more harm!

Why do you say that? You are going to be burning glucose no matter what. You can't live without it. And everybody has some level of ketones, although it is relatively low if you don't eat a ketogenic diet.

I was mainly concerned if the body needs time to transit to the ketogenic diet entirely for some weeks and than going off again and then on again that this is not helpful or makes a transition more difficult. Otherwise it would not be a ketogenic diet. But eventually it is not that black and white (like a almost zero carb diet vs. a (low) carb diet)?

 

[clearmiddle]

...
Just to drop a small note, getting in and out of ketosis is not healthy and eventually dangerous too, because you fuel your body with different fuels, that means with ketones and carbs and these are entirely different processes. At least something to keep in mind and to take care of, so that you do not do yourself more harm!

Why do you say that? You are going to be burning glucose no matter what. You can't live without it. And everybody has some level of ketones, although it is relatively low if you don't eat a ketogenic diet.

I was mainly concerned if the body needs time to transit to the ketogenic diet entirely for some weeks and than going off again and then on again that this is not helpful or makes a transition more difficult. Otherwise it would not be a ketogenic diet. But eventually it is not that black and white (like a almost zero carb diet vs. a (low) carb diet)?

OK, I think I see. Ketosis and keto-adaptation are somewhat distinct. Regular high-carb folks often go into ketosis while sleeping. It is normal to cycle in and out. I believe that people on a very low carb KD will tend to stay in ketosis much more, although there is the question of what is ketosis? For my purposes I use the commonly-used arbitrary ketone level of 0.5. Use a different threshold and you get a different answer. People on a higher carb KD would be satisfying a larger part of their glucose needs through food and less through gluconeogenesis, and I would expect them to fall somewhere in between in terms of time spent in ketosis but I can't say that for a fact.

Keto-adaptation and fuel "partitioning" (glucose vs. fats, and where they are used) are another matter. I don't want to take us way off topic here, though, and I have to leave for a Dr. appointment in a minute or two anyway. I can say a little more later if you'd like.

 

[annp]

Received my EDTA, Lactoferrin and the book on Chelation this week. Have taken two capsules of the EDTA for three days this week and it seems to be working already, I think. I have felt so exhausted the past month that I could just manage to go to work and then drag myself back to the sofa to read for the evening. I now have a bit more energy, so am hopeful things will continue to get better.

Dr. Gordon mentions in the book that he believes that everyone should be on oral chelation forever because it takes so long to detox and also because the EDTA has so many other benefits other than removing heavy metals. He seems to think we should be taking this every day along with the supplemental minerals (at different times). However, from what I have read here, the protocol should be to take it for three days per week and then take the minerals to replenish for the remaining four days.

So I am wondering, since I need to get my Ferritin down as quickly as possible and cannot do the decanting, should I try to continue taking this daily for awhile?

Also have contacted my Doctor and have asked if they do the Calcium IV EDTA infusions as that should help bring it down faster. Am also taking circumin, Quercitin and ECGB (green tea extract). Don't want to overdo things but am so tired of being tired!!!