Hemochromatosis and Autoimmune Conditions

[adam7117]

Came across an interesting news item today. It may be relevant in the context of this thread and what the C's said recently about high iron levels being a defence mechanism. Could it be that elevated ferritins are helpful in fighting off the nastier forms of influenza (maybe other stuff, too)?

This made me think - long term, iron overload is quite harmful - however, could it be useful to deliberately increase iron levels during a pandemic? If so, what would be the right methodology - iron supplements? It may well be that we need a strategy to control levels of ferritin rather than to keep them down permanently.

What do you think? Is this too much of a leap?

Also, I have found a source of EDTA which ships within Australia (eBay) - gonna bite the bullet and just do it, my energy levels are getting worse... Here's the link for those in the region:

_http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/EDTA-Oral-Chelation-Australia-Heavy-Metal-Detox-/170919696040?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item27cb9b96a8

New flu vaccine may protect against many strains with a single jab
_http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-05-23/new-flu-vaccine-single-jab/4707574


A group of scientists say they have come up with a new type of influenza vaccine that may protect against various strains with a single jab.

Tested in ferrets, which are considered good human models, the synthetic vaccine uses nanotechnology to attack parts of the influenza virus that different strains have in common.

Human trials have yet to be carried out, but the team was encouraged by the extra safety of the vaccine, which does not need to be manufactured from viruses in chicken eggs in the lab, as is the case for seasonal vaccines against flu strains often carried by birds.

It is also much faster to make.

The study was conducted at the US National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID) and published online in Nature magazine.

"It provides a basis for development of universal influenza vaccines and for more rapid generation of vaccines during new outbreaks," study-co-author Dr Gary Nabel said.

The new design incorporates the protein ferritin, fused genetically with hemagglutinin (HA) - a protein found on the surface of the influenza virus.

The fusion results in a microscopic nanoparticle with eight protruding spikes that forms the basis for the vaccine antigen, which is what spurs the immune response.

Lab animals given the vaccine were protected not only against the strain of H1N1 influenza from which the HA was derived, but a broader range of strains of the constantly mutating influenza virus.

"What we did is we took a vaccine that was derived from a virus from the year 1999 and then we challenged these animals with a virus that actually had circulated eight years later in 2007, and we found that the animals were protected," Dr Nabel told AM.

"What that means is that we're generating a degree of breadth of protection that you don't see with the traditional and the current commercially licensed vaccine.

"So it's telling us right now that it's giving us better protection, better both in terms of the potency meaning how high, tighter an antibody response we get and also in terms of the breadth, meaning the number of different viruses that the vaccine can protect against."

Nothing wrong with the current vaccine

Dr Nabel says there is nothing wrong with getting the current influenza vaccine that is available.

"In fact your manufacturers and your public health system is doing exactly the right thing by encouraging people to get their flu shots," he said.

"What we're looking towards right now is to develop the next generation of vaccines.

"It may take another two to five years to get there.

"Our hope is when we do get there, that instead of getting the flu shot yearly, that we can increase the intervals between injections.

"Maybe you would get an injection once every five years in the best of all possible worlds, you know, once every 10 years with boosters occasionally."

NIAID called the concept "an important step forward in the quest to develop a universal influenza vaccine - one that would protect against most or all influenza strains without the need for an annual vaccination".

Commenting on the study, Imperial College London virology lecturer Mike Skinner said the development was "really promising", though the concept drug would need several years to pass clinical trials and regulatory hurdles.

"Although it might be more broadly effective than the current vaccines, it is too early to tell how easily or how frequently resistant viruses would arise in the future, given that candidate pandemic viruses are continually being produced in wild birds," he said.

ABC/AFP

 

[aragorn]

Here are the results of my recent blood test. It wasn't possible to get all the iron markers, I hope to get those at some other lab. My ferritin level seems a bit high, so I'm planning to donate some blood just to see how I'll feel (I'm actually feeling quite fine these days). I appreciate any observations regarding the numbers.

15.05.2013 fS-Fe 23.8 µmol/l ( 9.0 - 34.0 )
15.05.2013 S -Ferrit 107.7 µg/l ( 28 - 370 )
15.05.2013 S -D-25 97.0 nmol/l ( 50.0 - )
15.05.2013 fB-Leuk 6.0 x10^9/l ( 3.4 - 8.2 )
15.05.2013 B -Eryt 4.13 x10^12/l ( 4.30 - 5.70 )
15.05.2013 B -Hb 135 g/l ( 134 - 167 )
15.05.2013 B -Trom 232 x10^9/l ( 150 - 360 )

The doctor who sent me the results recommended supplementing with iron, because of my low hemoglobin level. Yeah, sure...

Added: I'm still waitin for the "Iron Elphant" book, that I ordered

 

[Galaxia2002]

Came across an interesting news item today. It may be relevant in the context of this thread and what the C's said recently about high iron levels being a defence mechanism. Could it be that elevated ferritins are helpful in fighting off the nastier forms of influenza (maybe other stuff, too)?

This made me think - long term, iron overload is quite harmful - however, could it be useful to deliberately increase iron levels during a pandemic? If so, what would be the right methodology - iron supplements? It may well be that we need a strategy to control levels of ferritin rather than to keep them down permanently.

I was also thinking the same because I don't caught influenza and any other bug since three years ago (except helycobacter). It is maybe because I take every single day cod liver oil that have vit D and A that protects against flu. So even If I consult an hematologist and have a diagnosis, I just wonder if it is better to leave things as they are for the moment. Other alternative is do some EDTA cycles , and see how my body responses. I want to do it independently of have high iron levels because I am chemist and worked for a time with heavy metals

 

[nicklebleu]

Came across an interesting news item today. It may be relevant in the context of this thread and what the C's said recently about high iron levels being a defence mechanism. Could it be that elevated ferritins are helpful in fighting off the nastier forms of influenza (maybe other stuff, too)?

This made me think - long term, iron overload is quite harmful - however, could it be useful to deliberately increase iron levels during a pandemic? If so, what would be the right methodology - iron supplements? It may well be that we need a strategy to control levels of ferritin rather than to keep them down permanently.

I was also thinking the same because I don't caught influenza and any other bug since three years ago (except helycobacter). It is maybe because I take every single day cod liver oil that have vit D and A that protects against flu. So even If I consult an hematologist and have a diagnosis, I just wonder if it is better to leave things as they are for the moment. Other alternative is do some EDTA cycles , and see how my body responses. I want to do it independently of have high iron levels because I am chemist and worked for a time with heavy metals

I was thinking along the same lines ... did three self-decantings plus one blood donation so far and two 4-day courses of EDTA. And promptly got the flu last week, pretty bad one - haven't had a flu for quite some time.

Of course this could be coincidence, but the timing was just what got me thinking ... and it seems to me that I might have gotten a bit of the old joint and back pains back - other confounding variables in play, but still ...

I was also wondering if that could be some sort of "detox reaction" - not sure what's going on.

??

 

[Laura]

I was thinking along the same lines ... did three self-decantings plus one blood donation so far and two 4-day courses of EDTA. And promptly got the flu last week, pretty bad one - haven't had a flu for quite some time.

Of course this could be coincidence, but the timing was just what got me thinking ... and it seems to me that I might have gotten a bit of the old joint and back pains back - other confounding variables in play, but still ...

I was also wondering if that could be some sort of "detox reaction" - not sure what's going on.

??

As dr. what's his name points out, lowering iron levels can cause a temporary return of certain symptoms especially in those with auto-immune conditions. I certainly experienced it. However, it cleared up within a few weeks and my energy improved.

I suspect that iron overload can suppress a lot of things because the body accommodates and makes adjustments. Then, when you begin to remove it - along with other metals - things get stirred up and everything has to be rebalanced.

I have wondered about any protective effects of too much iron myself. The only thing is, with all the evidence of the detrimental effects overall, I think that the likelihood is that one simply has to go through a sort of detox and get everything re-adjusted. The energy thing is a big clue for me.

I do have a glitch that is bugging me: a small patch of what is like a skin infection on my cheek. At first I thought it was my first ever experience with cold sores (herpes) but the cold sore medication made it worse and what has helped most is simply anti-biotic cream. So I wonder what has been "unleashed" in my system by bloodletting and EDTA?

However, again, balancing that against the improvement in overall energy and mental clarity and the patch on my face seems like it must be some sort of releasing of something into my system that may have been tied up with the iron or other metals - like lead, for example.

Perhaps the body "creates" autoimmune conditions to protect itself against the iron and when the iron is removed, then things begin to work more naturally - you get a cold or flu and get a real immunity or something? Not sure if I am expressing exactly what I mean here but I hope you get the drift.

Iron overload would be adaptive and helpful if you were eating a high carb, low iron diet, and would help you survive times of planetary stress, possibly even including plagues, etc. But if you are getting plenty of iron in your diet, then iron overload can kill you.

 

[LQB]

I do have a glitch that is bugging me: a small patch of what is like a skin infection on my cheek. At first I thought it was my first ever experience with cold sores (herpes) but the cold sore medication made it worse and what has helped most is simply anti-biotic cream. So I wonder what has been "unleashed" in my system by bloodletting and EDTA?

The glitch I have is an arthritis-like swelling/pain in the finger joints - mostly left hand. The pain varies greatly over a single day and is the worst in a finger that has received the most punishment from years of guitar work. It seemed to correspond more to the EDTA as opposed to the blood donation. I have put the EDTA on hold (after 2 courses) and will do another blood donation in a couple of weeks.

 

[Aliana]

As dr. what's his name points out, lowering iron levels can cause a temporary return of certain symptoms especially in those with auto-immune conditions. I certainly experienced it. However, it cleared up within a few weeks and my energy improved.

I suspect that iron overload can suppress a lot of things because the body accommodates and makes adjustments. Then, when you begin to remove it - along with other metals - things get stirred up and everything has to be rebalanced.

I have wondered about any protective effects of too much iron myself. The only thing is, with all the evidence of the detrimental effects overall, I think that the likelihood is that one simply has to go through a sort of detox and get everything re-adjusted. The energy thing is a big clue for me.

I do have a glitch that is bugging me: a small patch of what is like a skin infection on my cheek. At first I thought it was my first ever experience with cold sores (herpes) but the cold sore medication made it worse and what has helped most is simply anti-biotic cream. So I wonder what has been "unleashed" in my system by bloodletting and EDTA?

However, again, balancing that against the improvement in overall energy and mental clarity and the patch on my face seems like it must be some sort of releasing of something into my system that may have been tied up with the iron or other metals - like lead, for example.

A few days ago I noticed a dry crusty patch on the inside fold of my earlobe. Tried some DMSO and then some colloidal silver and it seems better. It occurred to me that this might also be some sort of detox reaction. Have not done any session in the FIR blanket lately, but suspect that might help further the process, although it sometimes makes me feel a tired, so have not wanted to do it. Am going to try it though, and see how that helps.

My energy and mental clarity is improving bit by bit, even with only doing oral chelation. I recently noticed that I seem to be able to comprehend more of what I am reading lately and have had small bursts of energy, so that is a really good sign.

Just received the Iron Elephant this week, so am still reading that as well as the book on chelation therapy. I was not aware that certain symptoms could reappear during detox, but I think it's interesting because in spite of having more energy I have felt a bit depressed the last few days. That is improving, but it makes me think about how our physical and mental states are so closely aligned - and sometimes I forget that a "mood" can be a mental response to physical problems. Detoxing in every sense! :P

 

[Z...]

There's an article by Mercola here which includes the video that had been posted by Ailén and Laura earlier in this thread but includes some additional text. He says that ferritin should fall between 20-80 ng/ml, with an ideal range being 40-60 ng/ml.

I've also tried to compile a list of data for all members who have posted their test results so far. Since there were some gaps and inconsistencies in the data, I haven't included transferrin or UIBC/TIBC, but I've included ferritin, iron, and saturation and organized it by ferritin levels. I hope I got everyone and that it's all accurate, but if anyone sees a mistake let me know:

Member ---------------- Heimdallr logos5x5 Megan Mikel Stoneboss adam7117 aleana Laura Kniall Oxajil Shijing anart 3D Student Navigator Regulattor Gawan (1) Galaxia2002 l apprenti de forgeron Zadius Sky (1) Foxx Resistense Finduilas Gawan (2) Mac Bobo08 Odyssey Zadius Sky (2) Prodigal Son zlyja Lisa Guliani LQB (1) Psyche Guardian LQB (2) Seek10 lux12

Ferritin ---------------- 511 460 432 353 286.4 270 252 239.3 227 222 205 197 192 190.89 174.7 164 158 151 140 138.3 138 131 118 115 108 102 99 98 93 89 81 79 42 38

Iron ---------------- 47 75 107 102 66 48 78.2 75 105 63 116 107.3 124.58 102 112 111 74 155.86 101.68 61.45 37 176 78.2 77 99 101 55 130 52 90.5

Saturation ---------------- 25% 25% 42% 39% 27% 14% 32% 28% 46% 19% 65.4% 48% 38% 34% 46% 37% 17% 16% 53% 24% 31% 15% 44% 18%

UIBC ---------------- 140 224 145 158 177 287 196 125 196 145 54 181 143 296.09 195 158 240 216 307 165 240 229.05

TIBC ---------------- 187 299 252 260 243 335 271 230 259 261 156 292 217 357.54 232 334 317 315 362 295 292 318.44

Didnt know how to edit Shijing's table and include my values, so here are my results as received today

Ferritin 292.5 ng/ml (six months ago it was 230)
Iron 18.8 umol/L
Saturation 33%
TIBC 57.5 umol/L

 

[Z...]

I find it curious that my serum iron is the lowest of the bunch, in fact very low comparing to other people's result.
There is nothing unusual on CBC except that my hemoglobin is 15.0 g/dl which is only 1g over the 14.0 threshold for anemia.

I haven't read Iron Elephant yet so I am afraid I can only interpret my results according to the mainstream science, therefore any input on my results would be appreciated.

I am planning to see if I can donate blood regularly - every 3 months.

 

[3DStudent]

Came across an interesting news item today. It may be relevant in the context of this thread and what the C's said recently about high iron levels being a defence mechanism. Could it be that elevated ferritins are helpful in fighting off the nastier forms of influenza (maybe other stuff, too)?

This made me think - long term, iron overload is quite harmful - however, could it be useful to deliberately increase iron levels during a pandemic? If so, what would be the right methodology - iron supplements? It may well be that we need a strategy to control levels of ferritin rather than to keep them down permanently.

What do you think? Is this too much of a leap?

Hmm, but then the studies listed in this thread said that cancer and bacteria need iron. So I'm not sure on that one.

At least Laura mentioned to have the following other stuff available and which should be taken before starting the chelation.:

* Alpha lipoic acid
* Chromium picoinate
* Selenium
* Zinc
* Potassium (low dose)
* Niacin (low dose)
* Magnesium
* a general mulitvitamin without iron
* Copper

WRONG!!!!

You do take the alpha lipoic acid WITH the chelator and during the remineralization, but you do NOT take the minerals before chelation nor close afterward or you will take up the binding capacity of the chelator with the easily available minerals you have just paid money for instead of the chelator extracting the heavy metals from your tissues!!!!

PLEASE READ CAREFULLY!!!

Ok, so we take ALA with the EDTA. Then take the minerals in the evening, for say three days, then stop the EDTA for four days and continue with the minerals. Then try another round.

The question I have is, do we take the listed vitamins and minerals in addition to a liquid trace mineral solution, even if the liquid already contains those minerals? Because I got one of the mentioned trace minerals liquid: _http://www.swansonvitamins.com/trace-minerals-concentrace-trace-mineral-drops-8-fl-oz-liquid, and I was wondering if there's any additional supplements we should take other than that?

 

[shijing]

Didnt know how to edit Shijing's table and include my values, so here are my results as received today

Thanks Radagast -- I've been trying to add them as they're reported, and I just updated the table with yours and Aragorn's data.

I find it curious that my serum iron is the lowest of the bunch, in fact very low comparing to other people's result.

It has to be converted from umol/L to ug/dl for comparison -- you do that by dividing by .179, which makes your serum iron 105 ug/dl.

Also, I donated a pint of blood for the first time a couple days ago -- I felt a bit drained the rest of the day, but woke up the next morning feeling pretty good. I'm allowed to donate every 8 weeks, so I'm going to try to maintain that as a regular schedule and see what happens. A bottle of EDTA just arrived too, so I'm going to do a bit more reading and then start with that.

 

[Sinapi]

I have new blood work that I got a bit more than a week after donating blood, which was 8 weeks after I had last donated. This time I donated twice the amount of red blood cells through ALYX at the Red Cross; I think LQB mentioned it earlier, so thanks for that :). Also, before my donation, I think I did four or five Calcium EDTA cycles with ALA, but without supplementing minerals while taking the EDTA, which was a mistake I made for about two weeks. I had to stop early a few times because I'd get leg cramps, but they'd subside with calcium and magnesium supplementation. I didn't get the energy boost some members have described while on EDTA, but I'm glad I took it after having to work with heavy metals for chemistry.

I'm not sure if it was the donation or the EDTA, but my ferritin went down by about 50 units! While I haven't gotten through The Iron Elephant yet, I think the decanting is still helping with any odd joint pain, particularly with my spine (which will flare up if I eat anything inflammatory), which helps cement that excess iron is bad.

Iron, Serum: 64 ug/dL (35-155)

Iron Binding Capacity: 334 ug/dL (250-450)

UIBC: 270 ug/dL (150-375)

Iron Saturation: 19% (15-77)

Ferritin, Serum: 44 ng/mL (15-77)

Also, I apologize if this has been mentioned before, but what brand of trace minerals is everyone taking? I've been trying out this TJ Clark's Colloidal Trace Minerals stuff. I think the concentrated spring water is mostly humic acid that naturally forms complex ions with various metals found in humus. It's pretty tart (from the acid) so it needs to be diluted heavily. One benefit I've noticed is that it really helps with acid reflux; betaine HCL alone hasn't been working well for me anymore. I don't know if it's from the humic acid or if one or more of the trace minerals is acting like a catalyst for producing stomach acid. A downside is that sometimes my spine can feel a bit prickly when taking it, but it's not painful.

Another thing I'm wondering about is its safety. I think this may be the case for other brands as well, but the product lists heavy metals such as aluminum and cadmium in hopefully trace amounts (nothing compared to what you'd inhale in car exhaust, I'm sure). There's this Steven Whiting guy who claims the trace ions can chelate their elemental forms and thus reduce serum levels of heavy metals (http://www.tjclark.com.au/Library/Colloidal+Minerals/Are+Colloidal+Minerals+Safe.html) but he doesn't explain how they do so in much detail, nor did he when I emailed him. My guess is that, because humic acids are so large and have many different chelation sites, it's the acids themselves that would do any chelation and it shouldn't matter what colloidal metals are present in the complex ions. Unless what I said sounds very wrong, in which case I'd appreciate being corrected.

 

[Voyageur]

Kind of thought this would happen and it did. After asking for the full panel of iron work, and the lab said they would get that from my primary physician, and then they told me they did, met with the doctor (his wife actually who is filling in) today to here another story.

My blood Ferritin came out high at 341 ug/L and she said that as such, the government will now pay for a full iron panel workup – so back to the hospital and more revolving doors back to the Lab to give more; which is helping me in small stages to get rid of blood at least. She said that if the results are such and such, the gov will then allow for gene tests. However, the good news is they will help me out with a routine of taking pints and monitoring my blood as applicable.

My other results of note were stated as being problematical:

Potassium came out, she said, as high at 5.1 mnol/L (3.5 - 5) range. She also said this could be a Lab problem in the process of retrieving blood and was stated as being required again.

All else was in the N ranges.

However, when it came to Cholesterol, as the values seem to be so focused upon, she fist said my Hemoglobin Alc was high at 6.1% (4-6 range), then she started talking about sugar and further checking every 6 months – she said I could have a gene from my mother (who’s Hemoglobin is exactly the same @ 6.1%) that tends to give high readings?

Cholesterol was 5.96 mnol/L (high)
Triglyceride was 2.73 mnol/L (high)
HDL 0.82 (low)
LDL was at 4.05
Chol/HDL Ratio 7.26

So with this, i said i don't understand as i eat very little carbs, which she referenced back to the gene possibility.

From Marks Daily Apple site - _http://www.marksdailyapple.com/how-to-interpret-cholesterol-test-results/#axzz1hFb2yY7P I read about “How to Interpret Cholesterol Test Results”

Say you go ahead and get those particle numbers directly measured. You’re still limited, because that is just a single datapoint from a specific time in your life/day/week. Analogies are fun and helpful, I think, so let’s take this traffic and freeway stuff further. To get an accurate idea of traffic, you need constant updates, right? Imagine you counted the number of cars on the freeway at 12:05 on a Saturday afternoon four weeks ago. That’s great, but what does it tell you about traffic at 5 PM on a Thursday? Even though it’s the same stretch of asphalt/artery, we can’t divine much at all from that single measurement. You need more data points. That traffic fluctuates wildly is entirely uncontroversial. Any southern Californian could tell you that. But did you know that LDL, HDL, and total cholesterol readings in the same person can fluctuate just as wildly, oftentimes enough to move that person from “desirable” to “high risk” and back to “desirable” lipid status without any nutritional or lifestyle changes in the span of a few mere weeks?

And so have decided not to focus on it much, however the physician said that you may be a candidate for Lipitor according to the values, and how do you feel about that? I said, no thank you, I’ll deal with it through diet. She was actually happy and agreed.

I asked her about how often she searches for iron overload, she admitted not enough, it is not even on the Gov's approved random tests as i've stated, and she did say that she made a diagnostic mistake with two woman of Celtic origin, and then caught it and checked for iron; sure enough. She said that taught her to be much more careful about looking at this aspect - kind of appreciated her candidness.

Anyway, should have the full panel of iron in a few days.

 

[mcb]

...My blood Ferritin came out high at 341 ug/L and she said that as such, the government will now pay for a full iron panel workup – so back to the hospital and more revolving doors back to the Lab to give more; which is helping me in small stages to get rid of blood at least. She said that if the results are such and such, the gov will then allow for gene tests. However, the good news is they will help me out with a routine of taking pints and monitoring my blood as applicable...

The last part is probably all you actually need. Do you have to jump through the other hoops first, or can you start decanting now? Apparently a major use for the DNA test is to deny treatment. It can't tell you with certainty if you have HH and it can't tell you if you don't. I mean it's interesting to know if you have one of the known mutations, and knowing that can provide extra incentive to go through treatment, but it isn't a direct measurement of the potential problem at hand -- iron overload -- where decanting blood does provide a direct measurement. I have ordered my own personal genetic testing, that I can choose to share with my doctors or not, mainly because I am curious.

Also, remember that taking repeated blood draws to measure iron status can have a "normalizing" effect, so that "full iron panel" might not tell the full story.

 

[Gaby]

However, when it came to Cholesterol, as the values seem to be so focused upon, she fist said my Hemoglobin Alc was high at 6.1% (4-6 range), then she started talking about sugar and further checking every 6 months – she said I could have a gene from my mother (who’s Hemoglobin is exactly the same @ 6.1%) that tends to give high readings?

Cholesterol was 5.96 mnol/L (high)
Triglyceride was 2.73 mnol/L (high)
HDL 0.82 (low)
LDL was at 4.05
Chol/HDL Ratio 7.26

That iron is really messing up with your metabolism. Yeah, decanting iron is a priority.