Historical Events Database - History

[Mikey]

Re: Historical Events Database

Shijing, question about Event ID 65:

In the Quote field you have citations Yeomans (1991) and Pankenier, Xu, & Jiang (2008), and you added "Full moon: July 17, August 15, September 14". However the main source is Gary W. Kronk. The Quote field is reserved for text from the main source only. Ideally the Quote field contains verbatim (as-is) text only. So all additional citations should go into the Notes field, including the full moon info, as I've written above. Also, what is the abbreviation "NB:"?

The requirements I've written about above are still open to discussion. We still can change things, no problem. But the main thing is that we enter data uniformly. We have to agree on a certain standard.

 

[Approaching Infinity]

Re: Historical Events Database

Also, what is the abbreviation "NB:"?

I can answer this one. It's short for nota bene, and means 'note well', or 'pay attention', or 'take note'. I think of it as "keep in mind this important piece of info."

 

[shijing]

Re: Historical Events Database

Hi Data,

Shijing, question about Event ID 65:

In the Quote field you have citations Yeomans (1991) and Pankenier, Xu, & Jiang (2008), and you added "Full moon: July 17, August 15, September 14". However the main source is Gary W. Kronk. The Quote field is reserved for text from the main source only. Ideally the Quote field contains verbatim (as-is) text only. So all additional citations should go into the Notes field, including the full moon info, as I've written above. Also, what is the abbreviation "NB:"?

That entry is from the beginning of 2013 -- if I remember correctly, the original text I entered last February was from Pankenier, Xu, & Jiang (2008), but I added the material from Yeomans and Kronk a couple months after that and changed the citation to Kronk when Laura said that that was the source she preferred. That was back before the new format with the Notes field had been added, and I think we were still adding additional source material to the main text field. (And Approaching Inifinity is correct about 'NB' -- that's a term used by Pankenier, Xu, & Jiang).

The requirements I've written about above are still open to discussion. We still can change things, no problem. But the main thing is that we enter data uniformly. We have to agree on a certain standard.

Sure, that's fine. I'm not sure why the Change History field reflects this as a recent change -- this is the example I had used on the previous page of this thread, so maybe it's because I hit the 'save and return' button after I had copied the quote; I haven't modified the text since last April. There are a few other entries like this that will also need to be edited, and I'll make sure to get everything into the correct format once you give the go-ahead.

 

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database

Let me try to clarify a point here:

When we are collecting material from ancient sources, I would like to have ALL of them in a single entry about a single event. You can look at entry 1396 as an example.

There you see the OLDEST source listed in all the source fields about the event, i.e. Strabo. No additional citations need to be given for this initial quote.

BUT: Then comes Pliny the Elder: He only had one sentence to say about the thing and the source citation is installed at the end in parentheses.

Note that I've put a tilde after the Strabo quote to separate it from the additional sources.

Finally Tacitus. Citation installed in parentheses at the end of the quote.

We know that Eusebius also mentioned this event but none of us have gone through his work as yet (I don't think.) If that were to happen, it would just simply need to be added within the quote field.

Next notice the notes field. I simply snagged some info about this earthquake from Wikipedia and cited it at the end in parentheses. I cleaned it up a bit, too.

You can see from the history of changes that this entry began with Pliny as the oldest source but when I realized there was an older one, i.e. Strabo, I made changes.

Notice also my index words. It seems to me that those are the three terms of interest in respect of this event: that it was an earthquake, that it was in Lydia, and that it was an event of the reign of Tiberius.


ANOTHER POINT

I'm not interested in multiple entries arranged like this from MODERN authors. If Kronk, Yeomans, Pankmeir ALL tell about a cometary event, only the most complete and easy to read version should be used, which is usually Kronk. The other two can be relegated to just cite other sources notes as "See also Yeomans; Pankmeir."

I'm not interested in how the event was reported differently by each of these modern sources unless there is something extraordinarily weird going on.

I AM interested in seeing how ancient events were handled by ancient authors, preferably chronologically. So if there are five versions of the story of an ancient tsunami by five different ancient authors, I'd like them all quoted one after the other in chronological sequence according to the date of the writing/author. That means they should all go in the same text field so they will appear that way in the book: one example of the event after another. What goes in the notes field will most likely be a footnote.

Now, here is where I see a problem. Some events are multi-faceted. We have been entering the same text over and over again in some cases because it includes references to several TYPES of events, such as "a comet was seen followed by a loud explosion, followed by a tsunami". So, we have been taking that text, entering it under each category: comet, fire in the sky, tsunami.

What I'm thinking (and I think I mentioned it way back when): this is going to create an incredible amount of duplication for publishing purposes. The other way might be fine for data parsing, but not so good for printing.

I think I suggested at the time that we ought to have multiple event options for a single text where we could just check boxes that cover everything that is mentioned in that text, but there was some reason this was impractical.

 

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database

Shijing, event ID 2233:

I find NO other trace of this alleged event anywhere.

There IS the great earthquake of 17 AD where 12 cities were destroyed (probably more) which I used as my example above. However, I don't think there was an earthquake in 19 AD because no known source mentions it.

In any event, the use of a source such as the one you have here should be supplemental to the ANCIENT sources which is what we are primarily interested in. See how I have done it in the example given above.

If you can find more about this earthquake of 19 AD, including an ancient mention of it, I would like to know what it is.

 

[Mikey]

Re: Historical Events Database

Sure, that's fine. I'm not sure why the Change History field reflects this as a recent change -- this is the example I had used on the previous page of this thread, so maybe it's because I hit the 'save and return' button after I had copied the quote; I haven't modified the text since last April. There are a few other entries like this that will also need to be edited, and I'll make sure to get everything into the correct format once you give the go-ahead.

Ok, thanks for the clarification.

Meanwhile, I've made some changes to the database:

1. I added a formatting preview popup window where you can check the proper formatting for the Quote and Notes field. When you visit the database application the next time, and edit an event via the regular form, a small popup window should be opened. Usually popup windows are blocked by your browser, but it should ask you to enable popup windows, or at least show a small icon next to the URL (see first screenshot).
2. The Quote and Notes text cannot be edited any more from the Publication Preview. This has to be done in the regular edit form.

I want to repeat that we have to pay special attention to uniform formatting. The formatting preview popup window hopefully will give you enough visual feedback and motivation to do it.

I also realized that we need a way to make book titles in citations italic or small caps, as is usual in typesetting. I'll show you what I mean with Event ID 1038 as an expample:

The second screenshot shows the new formatting preview popup on the left, and the entered text on the right. The formatting preview popup window will show you how exactly the entered text will lay out. When you study the screenshot closely, you will see that the main issue is with the missing empty lines between paragraphs.

The third screenshot shows you how the text ought to be formatted from now on:

- I added empty lines to separate paragraphs
- I used > arrows to designate quotations, and make them indented.
- I selected book titles (e.g. "The Chronicle of Ireland") with the mouse cursor and clicked on the new "Title" button. This will wrap the book title in a

title()

tag. The software will then format book titles either italic or in small caps (whatever we decide in the end).

I have added 4 buttons to help you with the formatting: "Bold", "Italic", "Title", "Quote" and "Preview". When you click on the "Preview" button, the formatting preview popup window will be updated. Just experiment with it a bit to get a feeling what it does.

Yes, it's a LOT of work, but we'll get there in the end. For all contributors: don't hesitate to network here in the forum and ask questions. We all need to know what everyone is doing.

 

[Mikey]

Re: Historical Events Database

Zadig, you've made several hundred edits in the last few days, but haven't networked here about what you are doing. Could you give us an update?

 

[shijing]

Re: Historical Events Database

If you can find more about this earthquake of 19 AD, including an ancient mention of it, I would like to know what it is.

I can only find a couple other references to it online so far, but they are both modern sources: one is here (p. 383) and the other is here (p. 242).

It might be possible to find an ancient source by following the reference trail, but I'm not sure yet how feasible that will be. In a case like this, do you prefer to leave the reference out altogether if it can't be correlated with an ancient source?

 

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database

If you can find more about this earthquake of 19 AD, including an ancient mention of it, I would like to know what it is.

I can only find a couple other references to it online so far, but they are both modern sources: one is here (p. 383) and the other is here (p. 242).

It might be possible to find an ancient source by following the reference trail, but I'm not sure yet how feasible that will be. In a case like this, do you prefer to leave the reference out altogether if it can't be correlated with an ancient source?

Well, in this case, there might be something useful to be learned if there IS an ancient source while others ignore it... one might assume it was "covered up".

Because, really, they have no way of knowing which exact year unless there IS an ancient source!!!

So, if they are saying this, there must be a basis for it so see if you can track it down.

 

[shijing]

Re: Historical Events Database

Well, in this case, there might be something useful to be learned if there IS an ancient source while others ignore it... one might assume it was "covered up".

Because, really, they have no way of knowing which exact year unless there IS an ancient source!!!

So, if they are saying this, there must be a basis for it so see if you can track it down.

OK, I'll look into it and see what I can find -- it may require requesting a book through interlibrary loan, but I'll cross that bridge if/when I come to it.

 

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database

There's this text in several entries:

Better examine the cause of the phenomenon itself than form surmises as to why Aristotle has
applied the name She-Goat to a ball of fire. This was the shape of the one as big as the moon that
appeared when Paulus was engaged in the war against Perseus. In our own days we have more than once seen a huge ball-shaped flame which
broke up in the very middle of its course.
We saw a similar portent about the time of the death of the late Emperor Augustus.
We again saw one when Sejanus was executed.
A warning of the same kind preceded the death of Germanicus.

By seek10 from Seneca.

Obviously, the text needs proper formatting.

But this is a case where a text names an event (fireball), and gives several examples. They must have been doozies, too!

So, the text properly gets placed in several years INCLUDING 19 AD (year of Germanicus' death AND the expulsion of Jews and Egyptians from Rome), which is also the year of Shijing's reported earthquake above. So I'm wondering if there is something concealed here?

Then, again, the year that Sejanus was executed. I just included an entry about the Hoax resurrection of Drusus who was murdered by Sejanus. So it's sure important to include this data along with that.

Notice how this fall of Sejanus and the hoax resurrection is right around the time of the alleged "crucifixion of Jesus" according to the NT!

Also, that very strange text that accompanies the Testimonium Flavianum in Josephus is a bogus story made up by Josephus to explain the expulsion of the Jews from Rome which occurred in 19 AD. So why is that text right next to the TF???

You see what I mean here? Something really fishy is going on.

 

[Zadig]

Re: Historical Events Database

Zadig, you've made several hundred edits in the last few days, but haven't networked here about what you are doing. Could you give us an update?

I try to make what I did interesting.

For now, I comment my entries, give a context, add some bibliographic notes, erase my errors…, like that, it’s less dry and tedious.

Afterwards, I will try to do like e.g. “The Collapse of the Eastern Mediterranean” by Ronnie Ellenblum or “Climate and Political Climate Environmental Disasters in the Medieval Levant” by Sarah Kate Raphael.

In other words, a kind of Environmental World History, where, as far as possible, political events and environmental changes are linked.
I mean, it’s interesting when you can talk about a meteor shower and the beginning of the First Crusade or a peace treaty between the Kingdom of Jerusalem and Nur-al-Din after an earthquake. But an endless list of earth changes is not of interest.

 

[Approaching Infinity]

Re: Historical Events Database

Yes, it's a LOT of work, but we'll get there in the end. For all contributors: don't hesitate to network here in the forum and ask questions. We all need to know what everyone is doing.

I haven't had much time this past week or two. But KJN and I will be glad to help out with copy-editing and formatting. We'll give peeps here a chance to go over their entries first, then we'll plug in and no doubt have lots of questions. But with some effort, we can get it done!

 

[Approaching Infinity]

Re: Historical Events Database

Zadig, you've made several hundred edits in the last few days, but haven't networked here about what you are doing. Could you give us an update?

I try to make what I did interesting.

For now, I comment my entries, give a context, add some bibliographic notes, erase my errors…, like that, it’s less dry and tedious.

Afterwards, I will try to do like e.g. “The Collapse of the Eastern Mediterranean” by Ronnie Ellenblum or “Climate and Political Climate Environmental Disasters in the Medieval Levant” by Sarah Kate Raphael.

In other words, a kind of Environmental World History, where, as far as possible, political events and environmental changes are linked.
I mean, it’s interesting when you can talk about a meteor shower and the beginning of the First Crusade or a peace treaty between the Kingdom of Jerusalem and Nur-al-Din after an earthquake. But an endless list of earth changes is not of interest.

I think the priority should probably be to make sure all entries are properly formatted according to the guidelines Data has provided so far. Have you been doing that too?

 

[Mikey]

Re: Historical Events Database

Zadig, question about Event ID 1838 which you edited yesterday evening:

In the Notes field you have:

The plague first arrived in the British Isles {snip}
{snip}
See also - Leister K. Little, Plague and the End of Antiquity: the Pandemic of 541-570, Cambridge University Press, 2007, p. 218

Where does the text "The plague first arrived ..." come from? It this a citation of Leister K. Little? Or is it your own editorial comment? You see, it's impossible to know for anyone when citations are not done properly. We will not be able to publish such entries unless more care is taken with formatting and unmistakable citations!!!