Hope, fear and the future

[bjorb]

Hi DBZ

[quote author= DBZ]But, I don't see anything happy about China becoming the superpower.[/quote]

This world is STS. Either a society clings to creativity, or more to entropy. As for now, I think we can fairly say that there is some balance in China. I am not saying it is perfect, many things worry me about China. But there are positive signs and I believe that they outweigh the bad.

Like this:

China Spends $1 Trillion on ‘New Silk Road’ to Surpass US on World Stage
http://sputniknews.com/news/20160603/1040704275/beijing-europe-washington-trade-geopolitics.html#ixzz4Alg50pYm

Investing 1 trillion in trade and infrastructure. The US Empire would had invested that in a new war in a heartbeat.


[quote author= DBZ]I don't think Putin is anything compared to Caesar or Malcolm X. I think I equate him with a businessman who is savvy and logical. He doesn't seem to have emotion to him[/quote]

I think he shows enough emotions. Watch his Q&A sessions with the Russian public. He laughs and makes jokes. And I remember his state when Erdogan downed the S-24 and murdered the Russian pilot. He was clearly beyond angry by the look of his stature, face and the way he talked. But it was controlled, a true leader never let emotions get the better of him. Otherwise he would have given the impression that the situation is not under control.

Leaders are meant to be serious at 99% of the time if you ask me. Taking care and protecting everyone is a huge responsibility.


[quote author= DBZ]Had he intervened in Syria earlier, many more people would not have died and there would not have been this quagmire of emigration. But, he kind of makes me think of this fake hero, who can sit there cool while people die.[/quote]

He couldn’t intervene earlier I think. Just like in Libya, The western public was still seeing those terrorists as freedom fighters. Because that's how the MSM was depicted them. It took the western public 3 years to catch up. If he intervened earlier world public opinion and most countries would have condemn it which would had consequences. Now the majority of those countries cheer Putin on, it makes all the difference.

I know it's unfair to think this way. But fact of the matter is that Putin cannot win the global struggle without international support.

I am noticing that the global population is slowly becoming aware of hybrid wars and color revolutions. This is thanks to the climate Putin has greatly helped to create.

Like George Orwell once said: 'Until they became conscious they will never rebel, and until after they have rebelled they cannot become conscious.'

This is the bigger picture of it. OSIT


In the past I disagreed with several decisions Putin and Team took. I considered them to soft. But now, I understand the overall picture more. They have a foresight far beyond me.

Putin is clearly of the Hero archetype if you ask me. We don't have many of those on the planet and rarely in such a position. The PTB never have met such an opponent. He can't be bribed, or intimated. He is someone who will bow for no man. And it's far from over, The PTB quest for global domination has met an immovable object. And now they are pushing it even that far that they have to remove their mask of sanity to keep confronting Putin. And the more they do, the more they will lose the majority of global support.


[quote author= 13 Twirling Triskeles]I don't think you can think yourself out of this confusion. I don't think logic and analysis and thinking with a hammer can help resolve the inner turmoil. Feelings are NOT logical. They won't be successfully suppressed, repressed, oppressed, or expressed. They have to be FELT in order to MOVE them.[/quote]

Well said I think. Feelings are there for us to be understood and figured out. And for that they must be Felt. Easier said than done of course, especially when it makes us feel uncomfortable.

[quote author= DBZ]I still don't see a solution besides learning how to disassociate better.[/quote]

Confronting it is the only solution. Removing programs also brings more inner peace and clarity. It's always worth it.

I think it's good you had this of your chest. It always is when we have difficulty finding the solution ourselves :)

 

[13 Twirling Triskeles]

Thanks 13,
Btw, I always have great Friday the 13th's despite the joo-joo friends and co workers have around it, lol, go figure!

:) I like Friday the 13th's too! I like that number 13 as well — maybe 'cause it's also my birthdate #. The only joo-joo I've read about Friday the 13th goes back to the slaughter of the Templars by King Philip IV of France — October 13, 1307. A double 13!

I think what sets me off when I hear sott radio is that I'm tired of heroes. I don't think Putin is anything compared to Caesar or Malcolm X. I think I equate him with a businessman who is savvy and logical. He doesn't seem to have emotion to him and I am jealous of him in some ways, because I would not have his patience had I been in his situation.

Well — since I failed to listen to that radio show myself, I can't make any incisive comments. I'm surmising that the radio show offered examples of Putin's actions vis-a-vis the global situation — is that it? And you think we are giving Putin too much credit, and that he is not nearly the hero that Ceasar and Malcolm X were?

You may be right. Then again, look what happened to Ceasar & Malcolm X. What I see with Putin is that he is playing the long suit. IOW, he is adhering to Don Juan's advice to hold off and exercise nearly infinite patience in order for the denoument of the petty tyrant to fall into the trap and betray him/herself -- which results in his/her self-destruction. Like little dominoes falling -- 1 - 2 - 3 - Boom! Gotcha!

The heroes we are most familiar with jump onto their horses (or into their sports cars) gallop toward their foes at breakneck speed while unsheathing their swords, drawing their guns, whirling their whips, assuming their kung-fu stances and physically engaging with their enemies. A knock-down, drag-out, physical fight to the death -- with blood & guts galore. And, as we watch this, our emotions get all excited and we want to see the enemy vanquished and brought down and destroyed. Hurray!

Putin is using his head — his mind. Maybe he realizes that this battle is actually a battle between the normal Being's Mind and the Psychopath-Petty-Tyrant's Mind. And he can SEE that resorting to ordinary tactics will not work — cannot work. So he is taking an entirely different route. It's more subtle, yes? And we're so used to military warfare, football, soccer, hockey, boxing where all that testosterone and adrenaline are flowing and it's all so exciting and we're on the edge of our seats.

And I ask you this, DBZ, what about the Zen Masters? They, too, are heroes, are they not? And they are operating more like Putin than like Rambo as far as I can see. But what's difficult for us bystanders to understand is the strategy of the Putins and the Zen Masters. Because their methods are not so obvious and we are not so able to comprehend how sometimes such simple side-steps and patience can possibly end in victory. We're very impatient with evil. We wish to see it destroyed immediately. We crave justice and a righting of all wrongs. We wish to slaughter evil whole-sale. Wipe it out of existence. Why? Because it's painful for us to observe and feel the consequences? We despise the deception and nefarious tactics? We feel good when we feel our righteous anger swelling our breasts? Probably any or all of those.


But if you re-read those portions of Castaneda's book (The Fire Within), you will see that the way of the warrior (Sorcerer) is to experience the supreme JOY of strategically building the stage upon which his enemy will destroy him/her self. Probably like holding back on achieving an orgasm in order to build & build the energy. Sorry for that example but it seems sort of apropos.

As for Putin not demonstrating his feelings in public, do you think that's how he is also in private? That he is not purposely exercising restraint so as not to make himself a more vulnerable victim to the General Law which -- similarly to the Psychopath Protocol acts like a heat-seeking missile aiming for its target.

Also, see bjorn's reply which was submitted while I was typing this. In fact, I'd tend to agree with much of what bjorn has written as well. PLUS -- it was much more concisely written than my own post. :)

But, patience is not always a virtue. Had he intervened in Syria earlier, many more people would not have died and there would not have been this quagmire of emigration. But, he kind of makes me think of this fake hero, who can sit there cool while people die.

We are seeing all this with our own very small understanding of all the parts in play. Putin is not a cowboy. He has a duty, obligation, and desire to serve his country and his people. That is his FIRST priority. In order to serve them as well as possible, he cannot cast caution to the wind and ride like a banshee into the fray to vanquish the foe. He MUST be deliberate, SLOW thinking, plan his strategies, take into consideration and listen to and consider the input and feedback of his team of advisors. IOW, he, himself, must also NETWORK with others of co-linearity.

I sense that you fully understand the logic of all this yourself, DBZ. But you are maybe aligning with all the people who are suffering to such an extent that you just want all their horror to STOP - NOW! Because you're hurting so much yourself as you witness their death and destruction.

Believe me — I think we are ALL feeling the same way you are with regard to wanting the terror of it all to just STOP — and STOP IMMEDIATELY! I don't know what I can say to you because, like I mentioned previously, our emotions are NOT logical so none of us can help feeling this way.


But, just as we are practicing attempting to separate our Observing I from all our Little i's, we are attempting to separate our Logical Observing I from all our Little Feeling i's. When we can achieve that separation, we can SEE from a larger perspective, yes? We are not drowning in the soup.

I wonder if I previously had a fear of separating because I was afraid that if I did, I would lose something important — my humanity, or my compassion, or my empathy, or sympathy for the plight of others. That if I achieved a more objective view, I would lose my subjective identification with all the victims. That if I didn't identify with the victims, then I would automatically identify with the predators. And because I didn't want to do THAT, I resisted shifting my point-of-view. I don't know. I'll need to consider that at a later time.

In fact, I realized something now.... All through childhood I looked up to heroes from Comic Books, even this guy on 20/20 who would expose corruption (and later became a shill for Fox News). I'm tired of heroes. I think they take away our power. Nowadays, my childhood hero that I still relate to is McGuyver, who with his knowledge can adapt to situations and fix/negotiate his way out of things.

This sounds to me like BETRAYAL. And if so, that's a Biggie to deal with. I know. I had to deal with that just recently (which I mentioned in that thread Depression as a Stepping Stone (to Soul Growth).

All I can say about any of these so-called negative emotions is this: That in my experience, they all share a similar structure and healing approach — like peeling layers of an Onion.

1st Layer: Others > others.
2nd Layer: Others > me.
3rd Layer: Me > others.
4th Layer: Me > Myself.

Example:
1st: Observing others betraying others.
2nd: Experiencing others betraying me.
3rd: Noticing me betraying others.
4th: Realizing that I've betrayed myself.

But you have to start with what's in front of you. For you, it seems to me you're working with the 1st and 2nd steps — heroes betraying you and others. So work with that first. Don't try to skip over to Step 3 or 4. It won't work. You can't extract the Onion Layer #4 before you peel away Onion Layer #3.

Sort of like what the C's said about not jumping ahead of ourselves attempting to qualify for 4th Grade (Density) until we've learned all we need to learn in 3rd Grade (Density).

So. How could you go about that? Well, you might start by listing all the times you recall when you observed others being betrayed by others. Then you might list all the times you felt betrayed by others.

It's an organic process. You will notice that you'll naturally progress from step to step as you continue writing down all the incidents that come to mind.

Why it's important to actually WRITE it and not just THINK about it, is because . . . well, I don't know exactly why. :) I'm sure there are some scientific reasons that support it — or some theories or hypotheses that discuss it. But what's important to me is that it WORKS.

Capice?

Politicians are scumbags to me now. Putin is as much to blame for his inaction as the praise for his action. That's my emotions AND logic speaking.

I'm not going to buy this whole good cop bad cop game anymore. I think it reeks of history.

Well OK then. Politicians are demonstrably scumbags. I'm sure we can all agree on that.

As for Putin in particular, I've already said my say about that above, so I won't reiterate it here.

Question: You say "NOW". Is that just a phrase, or does it mean that you EVER thought they were NOT scumbags? Just curious.

That you are not going to BUY this whole good/cop bad/cop game again sounds to me as if you feel betrayed and gamed and deceived by formerly believing or thinking or counting on the good guys at least having a fighting chance against the not-so-good guys. And they didn't come up to scratch or meet your expectations or deliver the goods or make good on their promises.

And, I could be totally wrong too. About everything I've stated. Sometimes, I don't interpret others correctly. If that's the case here, I do apologize for putting words into your mouth and attributing thoughts and feelings to you that are not at all true or accurate. Then I shall go sit on my little Dunce stool in the corner and ponder my transgressions.

Thanks for hearing me out DBZ. And I truly wish you very well in your struggles with all your Little i's that seem to be insisting on expressing their distress. My Little i's do that too! :)

 

[Oxajil]

Maybe the only truth is that we don't really have truth and justice, except for our own selves. But, as social beings, how can we NOT BE ANGRY at the bullshit and the excuses that our leaders give us in order to perpetuate a drama that never ends?

Yeah, as 13 Twirling Triskeles wrote, I think that reading 'Depression as a Stepping Stone (to Soul Growth)' thread could be helpful too regarding this. A lot of things happening in this world are mad, and there are ways to express that anger, sadness or frustration in a productive or creative way. Will it help the world become a better place? Probably not, but it can send some kind of signal out there that you notice the signs and you're acting on them, that you care. Who knows, it could help others in small or big ways, maybe help them see things in a different way.

Regarding Putin, try to look at it this way: being angry, sad and depressed about all the destruction, suffering, etc. going on in the world, is it not refreshing to see the actions of leaders such as Putin? Or to see that Iceland kicks out central bankers? Or to see that a leader of a nation keeps a low salary so that more money can be distributed to the people? They give people some hope that at least not all leaders are corrupt to the core! Whether they will ultimately change the world for the better, we don't know. How things are looking now, things are probably going to get worse, at least on some levels. As Joe said, we can't really directly change that, or change reality as it is.

Also, he and his team of advisors have an enormous amount of responsibility, you don't have to see him as a hero, but it is also unfair to say that he just sat back and looked at how many Syrians died, when he could've intervened at an earlier point. We don't know all the details, perhaps an earlier intervention would've led to more deaths as bjorn explained. Notice also that often whenever there is a natural disaster, Russia reaches out, whereas I remember the millions that the Bush fundraiser received for an earthquake disaster did not go to the people but instead was used to build hotels and whatnot.

Maybe the least we can do is to spread awareness on issues, without the anticipation or belief that it will change anything, while we continue to work on ourselves and try to make changes that are possible. FWIW.

 

[Joe]

The post you linked is very interesting. But, it doesn't seem to help here. Beliefs can force us to dissapointment and frustration. But they can also give us respite from the same. In my case, I think I suffer from not being able to have strong beliefs as this article says about mixed handedness (which I have and made me understand why I was never able to get into religion, new age, or other dogmas):

Are you saying that you haven't accepted (at least some of) the Cs ideas in a somewhat dogmatic way? I mean, you just said pretty categorically that "this is a prison". Not only does that seem categoric, but it's also quite a depressing belief to hold, especially if you're convinced of it and believe it is for 'ever'.

So, to me, it feels like I can't depend on any belief, good or bad. The state of the world being messed up is not so much a belief but this observation- both globally and locally, we see how backwards in general things are.

Sure, but do you leave open the idea that things can change? Do you leave open the idea that the prison is only temporary? Maybe there's a problem in holding two opposing ideas in your head and heart at the same time? If so, that's not surprising, many people tend to want one or the other, for thing to be clearcut and pre-determined.

I'm actually anti-superstitious too, like the session thread about the crystals- I don't see what is there to worry about sharing them with family no matter their "energy". A lot of times, I feel like superstition- things that are not conclusive, controlling our actions are taking away our power. Maybe that's where I get annoyed with the idea to give my trust and faith into something that instills unknowns into the equation?

This seems to suggest that what I wrote above is true. You don't like things that are not 100% verifiable or definable. You feel it "takes away your power". So you see your "power" as resting in your ability to 'lock things down' to as great an extent as possible. When you can't, you get frustrated and angry and, dare I say behind it all, afraid.

I do like your comments on values. With Putin, I do support him standing up for the fairness whether it comes to Syria or global policy. But, I don't see anything happy about China becoming the superpower. In fact, I see them as a USA in the making. As they say "absolute power corrupts absolutely". They don't show values to their own population, so how can I see them showing proper values if they were one of the big leaders?

And who says China is going to become a superpower. This is all conjecture DBZ, no matter how definitely we would like to spin it.

Maybe I just need to find something that makes me think less. I'm not being sarcastic here- the thinking I sometimes go through is too much, it doesn't resolve anything. As we know a lot of our reality is in fact subjective through our senses and the chaos we call time, how can I hone it to be useful? I will re read some stoicism which I have recently picked up and see if there are answers.

I am seeing the point of G about objective suffering helping us focus on that though. Objective suffering would be doing something because I HAVE to. But the big problem with everyday life is that ego- which shows me that I really don't have to do half the things that I'm doing. Argh, more thought loops!

Right. Taking a grand theory or idea that is, by definition, mutable and trying to reduce it down to a 1 or 0, a yes or no, is a recipe for endless thinking with no solution.

I like the statement of depression having feeling that things are absurd. I remember that Tolstoy wrote about the absurdity of life.
From what I read, he went deeper into a religious perspective. That doesn't seem to work for me. I just don't have that kind of faith to believe in things, even what the C's say- everything is open. It could be that nothing happens for hundreds of years, and life goes on. That possibility, I dread. I do see self-importance there, but I can't seem to pin it - besides the memory of being a child and seeing that things in life are generally too complicated and convoluted. It seems that I was always allergic to 3d, lol.

It seems to me that you DO have a belief or an emotional hangup (which often amounts to the same thing), but you're not really aware of it, and it's conflicting with what reality is telling you, hence your "friction" or annoyance.

The end when he says the bar is too high applies to me. A lot of times, I can't sweep things under the carpet. I'm not exactly sure how doing this is beneficial, besides to be happy or live longer.
I don't care for either if they don't come with truth. But of course we don't know what might happen. But isn't that in itself sweeping things under the rug too???

See? You believe that leaving things open is "sweeping things under the rug". Emotionally, you want to "lock things down", so that you can be sure, so you can know what to expect, but you have to find a way to be happy with 'unlimited possibilities'. It's a tough one for sure, and also something that the Cs said would have to be tackled at some point. Leaving aside all ideas of 'graduation' etc. it seems to me that being able to be fully open to all possibilities is a good way to interact with life. Note that being open to unlimited possibilities does not mean you have to be able to conceive of all those possibilities (that's impossible) but you can achieve the same thing by simply suspending all of your anticipation, your wishing for things to turn out in a specific way, your judgments, prejudices, in short, all of your programs, wounds and beliefs that you have gathered over your lifetime(s)

Maybe the only truth is that we don't really have truth and justice, except for our own selves. But, as social beings, how can we NOT BE ANGRY at the bullshit and the excuses that our leaders give us in order to perpetuate a drama that never ends?

We can and should be righteously angry at injustice, but again, who says it never ends. As far as I can tell, all things come to an end, in one way or another.

 

[Divide by Zero]

Thank you all for your help and insights!

Foxx
I will look into the fungal treatments. Although I don't eat sugar, nor crave it, I do recall reading that some can feed on ketones, etc. I just can't afford to go through huge reactions as my job is physical and primarily outdoors. This also could be related to the long term detoxing of flouride which seems to take a long time with the iodine protocol. I don't think I tested high for heavy metals when you checked me, right?

Bjorn
I think what angers me about Putin and other politicians is that they still have to play games. I don't know if Syria asked before, but if the USA can just go and bomb anyone, destroy Libya, and get away with it, why can't Russia go aid an ally that requests for help (and it's completely legal- compared to the bs west intervention).

It's not his fault, I know, but it's aggravating thinking that things have to be this way- playing as a chess board. I blame the psychopaths for instilling this game. I think my anger has to be focused on them instead.

The hero archetype just makes me sick I think because a part of me still wants a hero. But, in my "too high" standards, I don't see a hero act like that, but act more direct- like Malcolm X. Of course, more annoyance- they got killed as was mentioned. What a bs conundrum we live in. I'm really tired of these games, whether it comes to politics or personal matters.



13 Twirling Triskeles-
Yes I do feel betrayal. I'm by nature a problem solver, at work, at home- mostly on the technical side, but also when friends come for advice. My ego hates when there's a problem that nobody wants to fix, or a half a$$ed fix is implemented out of sheer laziness. Maybe that's my moving center needing some use, I don't know.

Your steps are helpful to make it systematic and clear.


Oxajil-
The low salary thing is such a farce. We had a billionare mayor here who did the same and used it as his image of being for the city. It doesn't make a drop in the budget to pay the guy... but that's just me nitpicking here.
I also realized something here... it may not be a good idea for me to think of him as a hero anymore. I just will remind myself to focus on the actions and forget identifcation- because that seems to be a big program in me. I'm reminded of the song from the original (not the crap remake) Mad Max- We Don't Need Another Hero : http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/tina...ma or belief! How twisted our own minds are!

 

[13 Twirling Triskeles]

Hi Divide By Zero. Just saw your new post as I was typing this.

Seems to me you are caught in the logic trap. Which can become a mental prison from which it's impossible to escape using . . . logic. Why? Because what I'm seeing is that you aren't really FEELING those emotions the way it talks about in that Depression Thread.

When we FEEL our feelings-emotions, we can actually FEEL them PHYSICALLY -- in our BODIES -- as SENSATIONS. If we start THINKING about HOW we're feeling OR if we start thinking about WHAT we're feeling, we are mis-using our Intellectual Center to USURP our Emotional Center's WORK.

Yes -- at first it's a little scary and discombobulating to refrain and refuse to use our minds to talk to ourselves about how and what we are feeling. But that talking to ourselves and others about what and how we are feeling is called EXPRESSING our emotions-feelings. Which is all very well and good -- and which is what we are all discussing in this thread.

But I am talking about something much more basic than expressing. Feeling comes before expressing. If we first express what and how we feel BEFORE we've taken the opportunity to actually back-up and FEEL the sensations-feelings-emotions we end up short-circuiting our Emotional Center energies. Producing exactly what is happening right now. Confusion, distress, upset, turmoil, feeling trapped, betrayed, etc., et al. Then the mind kicks in and begins rationalizing and justifying why we're right to feel the way we do. And we still haven't done anything useful except get mired in the muddy mind that can NOT think straight when its logic is at odds with our emotions.

I guarantee that if you will back-up a bit, go read that thread and actually DO the exercise as outlined there, you will be most amazed at how different it is to simply FEEL your feelings without allowing your Intellectual Center to usurp your Emotional Center.

Maybe I should explain something here. Emotions are Energy-In-Motion. That means that when you actually focus on and feel your feelings, they start MOVING. You will probably feel some type of energy moving somewhere in your body. And as you continue to focus on and feel that energy, it will shift & change & move again. It is not static. What keeps our feelings stuck and held in place is that they are not being fully felt. They are being de-railed by our mental processes. When you fully feel those emotions, they will become freed & capable of moving. Right now they are imprisoned -- locked down -- static -- not moving. The only thing moving is your mind and your thoughts. But moving thoughts will not move your emotions. That's like trying to use FORCE. And we all know how well force works, yes? It's like forcing someone to do something against their WILL. It's a violation.

I promise you that AFTER you've given yourself the opportunity to actually FEEL your emotions without input from your Little i's (mind-talk) that you will organically move into a mental head space where your thoughts are more clear and lucid and you will not be experiencing as much confusion or conflict. The conflict is because your Emotional Center is screaming at you to please experience what it is feeling -- and you are refusing to do so. Why are you being so mean to your Emotional Center? It's like an adult refusing to listen to a child who just fell down and hurt himself and needs his Mom or Dad to pay some un-divided attention to him so he can carry-on and continue doing his job.

You can DO this DBZ. You're smart and intelligent and capable. Surely you can handle feeling your emotions, yes? That is how YOU can be your own HERO. It takes courage to face our feelings. It doesn't mean you have to be fearless. You just have to do it -- even if you're scared to do it.

Again, if I have been interpreting your messages incorrectly, please dis-regard. What if I'm just projecting my own stuff onto you? Since I'm unable to be objective with respect to my own hidden motives, I have to hold space for that possibility. So . . . FWIW . . . which may be less than even 2 cents. :)

 

[Foxx]

Foxx
I will look into the fungal treatments. Although I don't eat sugar, nor crave it, I do recall reading that some can feed on ketones, etc. I just can't afford to go through huge reactions as my job is physical and primarily outdoors. This also could be related to the long term detoxing of flouride which seems to take a long time with the iodine protocol. I don't think I tested high for heavy metals when you checked me, right?

I can't recall now regarding the heavy metals, however testing positive for the mold and having the feelings that you're describing does make me wonder if the mold is playing a role in those feelings and, if so, how much it is. I would suspect the mold is contributing something to feelings of "doom and gloom" and I've certainly had "doom and gloom" feelings before when I had the fungal overgrowths.

 

[bjorb]

[quote author= DBZ]I think what angers me about Putin and other politicians is that they still have to play games.[/quote]

I know what you mean, they are limited by the ignorance of the masses and it is horrible. Same reason why the 9/11 lie still holds. The space in which Putin can maneuver depends for a great part on global public opinion.

In the case of Syria, aiding a 'dictator' (Assad) when you where just branded as the new Hitler destroys your global support. But thanks to alternative new sites like SOTT.net people discovered more of what was truly going on in Syria and public opinion turned against these so called 'freedom fighters' Even so that the MSM was forced to adjust their broadcasting about it.

And that is I think what gave Putin room to maneuver and a window of opportunity to intervene.

Imagine if Putin intervened sooner and SA, Turkey, Israel or even NATO would have intervened in return to 'save' the Syrian people.

Global public opinion would probably had approve and because of that they could had done that. But not anymore. Instead of the new Hitler. Putin is now the savior of Syria. I think it may have saved a whole lot of lives by timing the intervention at the right moment and through that even avoiding another war.

But no way to be sure. Like Oxajil said, we don't know all the details

Btw, Russia and Iran have helped Syria from the start through humanitarian aid, financial aid and military equipment.


[quote author= DBZ]but if the USA can just go and bomb anyone, destroy Libya, and get away with it, why can't Russia go aid an ally that requests for help (and it's completely legal- compared to the bs west intervention).[/quote]

USA does whatever it pathology drives them to do and how has that served them in favor of their popularity in the world? Most populations will point the USA out as the number 1 threat to world peace. Their reputation is as good as death.

When that of Russia is steadily growing.

A while back I thought about the idea why Putin just doesn’t threaten the world in return which it's exotic weapons like the USA (consortium) does. Should make everyone think twice before playing favorite lapdog for the Empire. But that would had taken innocent lives and it also made me realize why Putin is winning.

Putin is winning because he isn't playing their game. He follows the principles of conscience were the USA Empire only understands domination.

And the world is catching on and taking notes. Remember what the C's said. Ultimately the USA will be hated just as Nazi Germany was in the world. Putin by holding true to human values and standing in their way of global conquest forces them to remove their mask of sanity.



[quote author= DBZ]The hero archetype just makes me sick I think because a part of me still wants a hero. But, in my "too high" standards, I don't see a hero act like that, but act more direct- like Malcolm X.[/quote]

I suspect that Putin is as direct as the situation allows him to be. As for the hero-archetype. All what we can do it to try to play our part as best we can. :)

 

[Joe]

I don't see the C's as dogma because even they warned us that it's up to us to figure things out. I think at the start I did but as it progressed, I saw it more as a base thing- that knowledge is important and they are the catalyst. I never had a religious kind of mind, like the article on Mixed Handedness made me understand why. I never feared hell either, thought that if it does exist and I go there because of some stupid rules, then why would I want to be in heaven by the same token? Maybe I was born to be a stoic, haha.

Ok, but I suppose what I'm getting at here is the frequency (and apparent certainty) with which some forum members refer to "when we're in 4D" and things like that. I figure you can only say that so often before it has become a belief, and the really important part is then, how does such a belief influence the way we act? Does it have a net beneficial result in terms of our practical daily lives and what we are aiming for, or not? Something to think about, and encouraging people to think about what they believe, in a mostly unconscious way, is what I'm trying to do.

 

[luc]

Ok, but I suppose what I'm getting at here is the frequency (and apparent certainty) with which some forum members refer to "when we're in 4D" and things like that. I figure you can only say that so often before it has become a belief, and the really important part is then, how does such a belief influence the way we act? Does it have a net beneficial result in terms of our practical daily lives and what we are aiming for, or not? Something to think about, and encouraging people to think about what they believe, in a mostly unconscious way, is what I'm trying to do.

I agree, and I think this line of thought ("when we will be in 4D" etc.) is a big trap, considering the cunningness of the predator's mind. Even though we might not (always) be aware of it, we might think that we are "special", "chosen" or what have you. Not so! Everything that happens is and will be a consequence of our conscious actions and work - everything. If we are going to 4D (whatever that means), we will have achieved it by the choices we make minute by minute, day after day, and we probably won't even notice a "transition", except in hindsight.

The Cs laid out the path pretty clearly:

Q: (L) What is the point?

A: The point is, there "has to be" nothing. You will do what you will do. You choose. We have told you this repeatedly, but you still suffer from self-centered perspective.

Q: (TK) Everybody is worried about themselves. They all want to be saved and not worry about others.

A: More to the point, everybody in an STS realm views themselves as somehow "special, chosen, or protected." This is simply not so!!

Q: (TK) What is going to happen, is going to happen. The people...

A: The body does not matter. It is the soul that either progresses or digresses, just ask Sandra!

Q: (L) Did Sandra progress or digress?

A: Open.

Q: (L) So, in other words, we could just sit around and live our lives and have a good time and not worry about a damn thing. Is that the point?

A: No.

Q: (L) It's our choices?

A: Yes.

Q: (TK) The point is it's going to happen...

A: But, nobody is there to intervene on your behalf as many would like to believe.

Q: (L) So, we are here on this planet, and we will either make it or we won't, just like Dorothy and Toto in Oz, based on our own ability to figure it out, to overcome the odds, the witch, monkeys and soldiers... (TK) Maybe what they are trying to do is give people the information, or make the information available so that people can make the choice, do they want to stay...

A: We are not "trying" to do anything. We are here to answer questions if asked. We cannot interfere.

Q: (TK) Yes, the non-interference idea is pretty clear and understandable. So, they cannot interfere...

A: And, even when we answer, you may not believe, it is up to you!

Q: (L) So, we are really on our own!

A: You always have been, and so have we, and all others, too!!

Q: (TK) I guess then, it is a matter of asking the right questions so that you will know what course of action to take. I mean, do you want to advance? Do you want to go to 4th density? Or do you want to go higher? Or do you want to stay here? How can you make an informed choice if you don't know the true conditions and what your options are?

(L) Is it that the religions that have been generated and foisted on the human race, have been designed to give people a feeling of complacency or faith in something outside themselves, and that this prevents them from seeking knowledge, opening their eyes, facing the facts of their existence, and therefore keeps them in bondage?

A: Its just obstacles, as always. You employ those too, for your 2nd density friends!!

Indeed, our job is to do our part, the part we do have control of, which is also incredible difficult: overcoming obstacles - in ourselves. Like a herd of sheep needs to figure out how to overcome the fence if they want to break out, even though they might not even realize that there is a fence.

And I think this thread is very valuable, because it makes clear that what the Cs are talking about might sound a bit lofty at times (although much less than in the early sessions I think) because it is symbolic knowledge from a higher realm. But what it all translates to is very, very real/3D/ordinary. So I think for many of us who are susceptible to all sorts of "magical thinking" - and I guess many of us are, otherwise we probably wouldn't have taken seriously all this information in the first place -, it's a good exercise to always "demystify" stuff and think about what kind of very down-to-earth hard work we are avoiding now by theorizing about this or that detail of higher realms and such. Not that it is completely useless, but I think focusing on what we can actually improve by our own efforts is far more important, the "higher perspective" will come as a result of these efforts and with time...

 

[Joe]

Indeed, our job is to do our part, the part we do have control of, which is also incredible difficult: overcoming obstacles - in ourselves. Like a herd of sheep needs to figure out how to overcome the fence if they want to break out, even though they might not even realize that there is a fence.

And I think this thread is very valuable, because it makes clear that what the Cs are talking about might sound a bit lofty at times (although much less than in the early sessions I think) because it is symbolic knowledge from a higher realm. But what it all translates to is very, very real/3D/ordinary. So I think for many of us who are susceptible to all sorts of "magical thinking" - and I guess many of us are, otherwise we probably wouldn't have taken seriously all this information in the first place -, it's a good exercise to always "demystify" stuff and think about what kind of very down-to-earth hard work we are avoiding now by theorizing about this or that detail of higher realms and such. Not that it is completely useless, but I think focusing on what we can actually improve by our own efforts is far more important, the "higher perspective" will come as a result of these efforts and with time...

Thanks for this post Luc, and for summing up so well what I've been trying to get across.

 

[Divide by Zero]

(I wrote a response yesterday and submitted it, but it didn't show up as I see now- not even in drafts- weird)

13TT-
I read and reread the exercise but it seems kind of hard to apply unless it's something more subtle like depression or something specific like a wrong done to oneself. I will keep it in mind.

The emotions on Sunday were pent up and mixed up. Rage/frustration/disappointment all over my body with a tension. It weakened me to the point of not being able to console myself about the world. It made me want to just yell, do exercise, and punch a pillow. That helped some and I did EE later in a nice warm epsom salt bath. Still, there was the feeling in me- all over me like a weight dragging me. Quicksand I suppose, the harder I fought it, the deeper I got.

I see what you mean about feeling it first.

What helped me feel better on Monday was to help out the mechanics at work. It's not my job, but they're older and as long as my work isn't pressing I like to help out and learn new things. I took the more physical aspects of it and felt a sense of accomplishment. I noticed that I felt lighter and had a pretty good afternoon and sleep.

This morning on the way to work, the idea of heroes came to mind and the anger that connects to it. I recalled when Anne was here, praised for her strength only to disappoint - and I remember how angry I was to see how I put my faith in her only to see that it was just a show/game. I think again how it relates to childhood, being dependent on small "heroes"/ authority for support/fairness/equality and being put down or ridiculed for it. This permeates all over, not just heroes but our family, friends, colleagues and I do recall how it drains me. But I could never find out how to just "let it be". I feel this hidden belief hijacking and twisting a simple normal human need- to depend on others! Amazing insights that would have been buried deep had I not got "sick and tired of being sick and tired" I can't express the gratitude I have for this!

Ok, but I suppose what I'm getting at here is the frequency (and apparent certainty) with which some forum members refer to "when we're in 4D" and things like that. I figure you can only say that so often before it has become a belief, and the really important part is then, how does such a belief influence the way we act? Does it have a net beneficial result in terms of our practical daily lives and what we are aiming for, or not? Something to think about, and encouraging people to think about what they believe, in a mostly unconscious way, is what I'm trying to do.

I used to think about this upcoming shift a lot, especially when I was intellectually lost with all of this theory but little direct connection. When sott came out and started connecting the dots and the psychology books showing connections to G and other esoteric works, I stopped thinking of something changing us but more us changing- whether the comets hit or not. I started to accept the idea of death and the probability that nothing happens afterwards, which was quite dark- but I needed it. I had once wondered if this was all a dream and I could not exit, what would one do? Do what one feels to do. What exactly do we feel to do in that remote case, if nothing matters? Of course it was a thought loop, because this reality could very well be set up in order to disconnect us from what is "outside".

So, I don't so much think "when we're in 4d" but it's fun at the meetups to talk about the implications and how it relates to higher level physics and the idea of consciousness. But the fact right now is, I am here- living in a reality where something as random as a bus hitting me could stop "Robert" from going on. What is more than "Robert" is known from the shadows of the contrast in this reality. Why would "Rob" choose to want to know more, when it really doesn't pay off and causes suffering on some level? Why did the great explorers push themselves? Same thing, same "insanity" if we try to relate to the 50% or whatever population that is happy to work hard, play hard, and sleep.

Something else is there, or if not- being more probable by us doing what is not popular or "successful", happy, simple. It might be a dream, but then we could all be in a dream of some higher level consciousness, much like characters in my dreams are parts of my consciousness. It's beautiful to think if one of those characters in my dream were able to see that they were in a dream and like a mobius strip- the created is the creator (as the C's said).


Luc-
Exactly, we can only control ourselves. These feelings we get, like the video Joe showed on depression are the exact thing that can push us past the natural forces of repetition (I think of the Karmic wheel in this case- to keep coming back to do the same thing over and over, like a machine).
It is amazing to see these "lofty" concepts have a solid real world application. In this case, I consider these unpleasant emotions as real world as anything, perhaps they are gifts from 4d, or an ability that develops into that reality. The whole idea of the magnetic center makes more and more sense, to give birth to a "new" reality. But, the whole time thing makes it a bit annoying. It's funny that in physics we're learning that without time, mass/matter doesn't "exist". And somehow these things translate to the exact magical thinking that I cannot seem to follow by word alone.

It's a mysterious time and I look forward to learning more about the clues to the mystery in Laura's next book!

 

[13 Twirling Triskeles]

13TT-
I read and reread the exercise but it seems kind of hard to apply unless it's something more subtle like depression or something specific like a wrong done to oneself. I will keep it in mind.

Hi Divide By Zero. :) Thanks for your feedback. I'm sorry that exercise didn't work for you. Good reminder for me that just because something works well for moi, does not necessarily mean it will work for someone else. I keep forgetting that. So now I can stop beating that poor dead horse and let it rest in peace, yes? LOL

The emotions on Sunday were pent up and mixed up. Rage/frustration/disappointment all over my body with a tension. It weakened me to the point of not being able to console myself about the world. It made me want to just yell, do exercise, and punch a pillow. That helped some and I did EE later in a nice warm epsom salt bath. Still, there was the feeling in me- all over me like a weight dragging me. Quicksand I suppose, the harder I fought it, the deeper I got.

I see what you mean about feeling it first.

Yes. I know what you mean. For myself, if I can't just sit with my feelings and just FEEL them, then I HAVE to express them. For me, it's physical exercise — especially hard core dancing.

Oh, oh. I lied. I'm going to beat that poor dead horse after all. Just this one more time, I promise. Then I will leave it be to rest forever, ok?

I think the point of that Soul Growth exercise is to fuse our Magnetic Center which cannot happen if we start expressing our emotions & feelings. What I understood by that thread was that the way to fuse the Magnetic Center was to focus on feeling the feelings rather than expressing them.

I'm a bit confused about when you say you think that Soul Growth exercise may be hard to apply to emotions which are less subtle than depression. Did I understand you correctly? Do you mean emotions like anger, rage, injustice? That those emotions are less subtle than depression and therefore the Soul Growth exercise is harder to apply when attempting to feel those emotions?

Why I'm confused is that, as far as I understood it, the exercise was not exclusively geared towards only dealing with depression even though that was the technical title of the thread itself. My understanding was that the exercise was designed to help one fuse one's Magnetic Center. And that any and all negative emotions were grist for the mill. I've even used it for dealing with very positive, happy emotions because I was getting so carried away and feeling so much positive energy I could hardly contain it. So I decided to see if I could use that exercise to help me deal with all that positive energy. It was just an experiment I tried. Which, wonder of wonders, it worked very well.

Just yesterday, I used it again for sadness and disappointment. I'll admit that attempting to feel those two subtle feelings was more difficult to get in touch with. The sensations within my body were so lethargic, almost deadened, that it was hard to FEEL anything at all. But the point really is to FOCUS and to CONCENTRATE on feeling any sensations at all. And by struggling to focus and concentrate, I could not keep boomeranging back into my thoughts which are usually running through my mind when I'm emotionally upset

The EFFORT required to focus and concentrate on just feeling the feelings or emotions takes every ounce of my determination and discipline just to refrain and refuse to snap back into my thoughts. And the instant my focus shifts back to my thoughts, I have to struggle to bring my concentration back to focusing on feeling my emotions — which, for me, has translated into feeling physical sensations within my body. So I focus on those physical sensations and concentrate on experiencing those sensations.

And by doing that, I can get free of my mind and free from my enturbulating thoughts and internal arguing. And once I'm out of my mind, I'm FREE. Because it's the mind that holds our emotions and feelings hostage. Well, technically it's probably more all those Little i's within the mind rather than the mind in and of itself. I see the mind as more like a SPACE. And the space gets hijacked and coopted into being a Stage for all these Little Actor i's to play their parts and speak their lines on cue -- from whom or what I have no idea. Probably external environmental triggers. And the point of that exercise is to refuse to be the audience enthralled by watching the Actors playing and saying their parts. If they don't have an audience, they return to the wings and wait for their next environmental trigger to cue them to return to their places on stage and play out their parts.

So by making the effort to focus and concentrate on my feelings gets me out of my mind and out of my thoughts. And getting out of the mind and out of my thoughts IS what makes the entire process work. And yes, I did move through it. I hit grief and fear first before I came through it. But that's how emotions work. They MOVE. They CHANGE. They SHIFT. If they don't do that, they're STUCK. And if they're stuck, then we're stuck. And where we're stuck is we're stuck in our thought loops and we're stuck with all our Little i's having arguments with each other inside our heads. And all those Little i's are usurping all our emotional energy — like stealing it — so the emotions are STOPPED and cannot move.

Does any of this make any sense to you?

What helped me feel better on Monday was to help out the mechanics at work. It's not my job, but they're older and as long as my work isn't pressing I like to help out and learn new things. I took the more physical aspects of it and felt a sense of accomplishment. I noticed that I felt lighter and had a pretty good afternoon and sleep.

Am I wrong that helping out the mechanics at work was a way of using positive dissociation? Which is not at all a bad thing as I understand it. Sometimes it's just the ticket to get our minds off whatever thoughts are embroiling us. I'm very glad you felt better afterward. That's the purpose of positive dissociation is it not?

This morning on the way to work, the idea of heroes came to mind and the anger that connects to it. I recalled when Anne was here, praised for her strength only to disappoint - and I remember how angry I was to see how I put my faith in her only to see that it was just a show/game. I think again how it relates to childhood, being dependent on small "heroes"/ authority for support/fairness/equality and being put down or ridiculed for it. This permeates all over, not just heroes but our family, friends, colleagues and I do recall how it drains me. But I could never find out how to just "let it be". I feel this hidden belief hijacking and twisting a simple normal human need- to depend on others! Amazing insights that would have been buried deep had I not got "sick and tired of being sick and tired" I can't express the gratitude I have for this!

Oh DBZ. That's rough. You were put down and ridiculed for depending on childhood heroes for support/fairness/equality? That's just plain mean that others made fun of you for that. All kids need someone to look up to - to admire - to see as role models - to want to imitate & copy them. That's a natural part of growing up. It seems to me that they shamed you for something for which they, themselves, should have felt ashamed of doing to you. Fie!

Yes, I can see how all that would feel like betrayal. It was betrayal. Plain and simple. I think that needs to be acknowledged. So I'm going to acknowledge it. So there.

And now you come to the crux of the matter. How angry you felt that you'd put your faith in Anne — only to be betrayed. Of course. We can't feel betrayed unless we first felt we could trust and have faith in someone. That's the part that hurts so much. It's shattering. The foundations upon which we built that trust & faith structure are ripped out from beneath us. And then — here comes Putin. And he, too, is thought by many to be heroic — at least compared to the blessed psychopaths running rampant amongst us. And you don't want to set yourself up again for another fall by putting any faith or trust in him because he'll probably betray you and all of us as well. And it'll just be one more darn disappointment to bear and one more nail to hammer into that coffin.

OK DBZ. Here's the deal as far as I can see. This betrayal thing is not just about you being betrayed by what you now realize was your mis-placed trust and faith in others — who then betrayed that faith and trust. There's also the next step of you betraying others. And after that step, there's the final step of you betraying yourself. Once you work through all those steps, you will be free of all the long line of past betrayals lodged in your subconscious memory banks. Doesn't mean you can't or won't feel betrayed in the future. Only means that any future betrayals won't have all this past betrayal emotional charge piggy-backing onto any present or future betrayals. And what's the good of that you may well ask? And my answer is that this is already a long enough post, so I'm going to stop right here. We can come back to that another time if you wish.

Thank you for hanging in there and going the full nine yards and being real with all of us and struggling to handle this issue. It's not easy. But you're still committed to working it out. And that takes lots of courage and fortitude and just plain effort. And courage, fortitude, commitment, and effort are just some of the character traits of most heroes I've ever heard of. So what does that tell you? And besides, your own efforts encourage all of us to also make efforts as well. And that's a good thing from my perspective. So Mahalo. :)

 

[Joe]

This morning on the way to work, the idea of heroes came to mind and the anger that connects to it. I recalled when Anne was here, praised for her strength only to disappoint - and I remember how angry I was to see how I put my faith in her only to see that it was just a show/game. I think again how it relates to childhood, being dependent on small "heroes"/ authority for support/fairness/equality and being put down or ridiculed for it. This permeates all over, not just heroes but our family, friends, colleagues and I do recall how it drains me. But I could never find out how to just "let it be". I feel this hidden belief hijacking and twisting a simple normal human need- to depend on others! Amazing insights that would have been buried deep had I not got "sick and tired of being sick and tired" I can't express the gratitude I have for this!

I think that's an important point, and I reckon it's something that's quite common. At a psychological level, the need for heroes probably boils down to the need for someone to take care of us, or at least to oversee the 'big stuff' like universal 'justice' etc. and the macro-events that we are aware have a direct effect on us and our sense of security. It's pretty closely related (if not synonymous) with the idea of a deity, some power watching over us, resolving our growing existential angst that is the result of an increasing awareness of, and perhaps interaction with, a larger, more complex reality. That's understandably, a scary thing to have to do.

I had the thought the other day that a person's 'spiritual' development could be compared (roughly) to the commonly-known stages of human development from child to adult.

There is early childhood where we are more or less totally dependent on parents and all of our needs are taken care of (or should be). This could be compared to the type of adult with little spiritual awareness or interest who still relies fully on an external authority and accepts it no matter what (authoritarian followers).

Then there is later childhood where more independence is sought, but still there is a strong need for parental support and protection. This could be compared to they type of adult who has begun to see the faults of established authorities and even protests against them, but such people will still ultimately back down and turn to authorities when things gets really scary or if they have an 'accidental' brush with what it takes to really learn, and live by, your own values.

Then there is adolescence, the threshold for real independence and breaking away from what is now seen more and more as the authority of parents and a development of ones own sovereign interaction with the world. This is a difficult time, with lots of angsting, chaotic emotions, a drive both to break away from the closeted world of childhood but also a fear about striking out on our own. But eventually such fears are overcome and the child becomes an 'adult'. In 'spiritual' terms, this could be compared to the process you describe of coming to a realistic assessment of our 'heroes' or a deity or whatever other authority figure we had looked to to buffer us from having to accept full responsibility for the direction of our own lives and our 'spiritual' development.

You mentioned Anart and how you viewed her as someone to look to as an authority, and how angry you felt when it became clear she was unable to fulfill that role. That's kind of like the reaction adolescents have to parents when they finally realize they don't really know everything. There's a sense of betrayal perhaps, but that is eventually modulated by the awareness that there was a lot of projection involved and unreasonable expectations of another person.

I think the point behind heroes is that, we eventually reach the stage where we have to start providing for ourselves that which our heroes previously provided for us. Instead of heroes continuing to buffer and protect us by taking responsibility for the 'big stuff', WE have to learn to deal with (at least some of) the 'big stuff' ourselves. Of course, there is a sharing of the burden and comfort in finding others who are going through the same process, but it's still a difficult, chaotic and trying process that probably involves a lot of feelings of disillusionment and a falling away of previous beliefs. This process of more direct interaction with and responsibility for dealing with reality seems to center largely on our emotions, as if it is our emotions that are the interface with a more expanded view of reality.

 

[Richs]

Yes. I know what you mean. For myself, if I can't just sit with my feelings and just FEEL them, then I HAVE to express them.

You don't actually HAVE to express them.

I think the point of that Soul Growth exercise is to fuse our Magnetic Center which cannot happen if we start expressing our emotions & feelings. What I understood by that thread was that the way to fuse the Magnetic Center was to focus on feeling the feelings rather than expressing them.

That makes more sense.

The EFFORT required to focus and concentrate on just feeling the feelings or emotions takes every ounce of my determination and discipline just to refrain and refuse to snap back into my thoughts.

What would be the purpose of putting such terrific effort into "just feeling the feelings or emotions"? None of us need to put any effort into feeling our emotions. They just arise at the appropriate time.

And by doing that, I can get free of my mind and free from my enturbulating thoughts and internal arguing. And once I'm out of my mind, I'm FREE. Because it's the mind that holds our emotions and feelings hostage.

I don't really think being "out of my mind" is something to be sought after.

So by making the effort to focus and concentrate on my feelings gets me out of my mind and out of my thoughts.

How is this beneficial to one's learning process and ability to see reality as it actually is?

Does any of this make any sense to you?

There has been a lot of confusion about the role our emotions play, not only in life in general but in relation to the Work.

It should be understood that our emotions are essentially another source of information... 'data' which informs us about the world around us that our Intellectual Center can not be aware of because our intellect itself does not have the ability to 'feel' anything. So, the Emotional Center 'informs' the Intellectual Center as to how it feels about something and this, in conjunction with the Intellectual Center, enables a more complete understanding of whatever is being considered than either the intellect or the emotions working alone.

When either of the Centers is usurping the process, whether it is the Emotional or the Intellectual, there is no balanced assessment possible which leads to all sorts of problems. The Moving Center and the Sexual Center also tend to run amok when all these things are not equally developed and in balance and working in unison.

When the Intellectual Center is basically running things there is no emotion there to help direct the thinking and help us to come to a proper conclusion, and this often leads to faulty ideas and actions. Even worse is when the Emotional Center is in charge because when it totally overrides the logical thinking process it creates tremendous mental havoc. And, when it is habitual and mostly constant, there can be little or no peace in our psyche. I'm not sure if there is any data on this, but it seems to me that most of the pain and strife in people's life is caused by the emotions running wild and not being used simply as 'information input' as they should.

How can this be fixed? As far as I can see, the only way to remedy the situation for any of us is through the Work. It works if You Work. It is agreed by just about everyone who is or has done this Work that it is probably the most difficult and often painful thing they have ever done. However, this 'pain' is Conscious Suffering rather than the unconscious suffering which many people constantly go through and can not ever seem to overcome and find peace and tranquility.