Evolutionary1 said:
Hi all. I've found all of your posts insightful and am encouraged by them, and I'd just like to add to this thread since I have been trying to reconcile my own anxieties--mostly social--with trying to do the Work. I can certainly relate to you, Truth Seeker, especially with your relationship with your mother. My mom, who is extremely antisocial, liked to go through celebrity or style magazines and she would literally write across the faces of the women either "ugly" or "pretty" according to her high standard of beauty. I remember seeing how easily one could be labeled as ugly, and seeing so many attractive women labeled as such--most much prettier than me--I concluded that I was unattractive and that this was my most salient trait, that others would be judging and critiquing as harshly as my mother--though she's always claimed I'm pretty, one can understand why I wouldn't trust her judgment.
I found that with my mother (and I've only just come to this realization in the last year or so) that it was far more insidious. Because of this, it made it difficult if not impossible for me to see in terms of the narcissism involved. She was a "good" mom in that she was responsible, but it was the emotional "attacks" that were off. One example I remember clearly is once when I did poorly on a test, she asked me if I did poorly because of anything she did. Now on the surface, this question seems... mundane but against the backdrop of many other instances where I felt/was made to feel that I had to take care of her emotionally the question became a weapon.
In that situation as a child, I'm already feeling bad about the grade but I now have to put my own feelings aside and help her figure out what she did. This is a heavy unfair load for anyone to carry let alone a child.
I also remember hoping that my grandmother would live long enough for me to become an adult because I didn't want my mother to be alone. My reasoning being that if my mother were alone, she would make it that much more difficult for me to leave home. As it came to pass, my grandmother did die before I grew up and my mother tried to guilt me into staying home as long as possible.
When I decided to leave, I had to do so in anger as that was the only emotion that allowed me to break free of the guilt she attempted to make me feel. As I look back on my life, I see clearly how many decisions I made that were not in my best interests, but hers. Some of the things I didn't do was: travel to France on a school trip in my teens, go away to college/campus (I went to one nearby and traveled home daily) and traveling far away to different countries.
This will sound cruel but I didn't mean it that way. When she died almost three years ago, in addition to grief I felt relief. Relief that I no longer had to worry about her. I could finally travel without the burden of worrying what she would think if I decided to live in another country.
Going off in a slightly different direction, this has allowed me to see why people hate the holidays. I think they hate it because they now have to return to the environment that didn't allow them to be who they are. They now have to make themselves fit into a mold of their families expectations. I dreaded spending the holidays with my mother for this very reason. No matter how I approached the situation, her response to it was the same. It got to the point where the best solution was to separate myself from her. Then of course was the guilt that comes from that: I'm not seeing/calling my mother as much. Am I being a bad daughter? etc.
Rationally, I knew what I was doing was for the best, but still...
Evolutionary1 said:
Like my mother, I became somewhat obsessed with the idea of being pretty, though I was more secretive about it because I felt that there was something frivolous and destructive within this obsession and that "evolved" women shouldn't care so much about appearances. Mostly, I identified with being the "smart one," a "know-it-all." Or, like Truth Seeker, I identified with being "good and nice" so as to distract others--and myself, especially myself--from my essentially dishonest nature. I learned to pretend to be confident or indifferent at work or when compelled to interact with others but I have never really felt whole or comfortable, and so have spent too much time hiding in isolation, trying to think my way out of my problems.
With my mother, the focus was more on education. I do however remember one time she said something like "You know, you're not such a bad looking girl." It's like she was throwing me a bone. In learning more about narcissism, I've realized that this is one of the tactics used to gain control. Basically, compliments (if you can call them that) are used as weapons for nefarious purposes.
Evolutionary1 said:
For a while I've been fully aware of my lack of integration, of my tendency to be many false selves depending on circumstances, but this knowing seems to be fueling my fear of interaction, intensifying my shame and sense of worthlessness. Networking, interacting is becomong more and more difficult and I feel frozen in fear of being hurt, rejected, embarrassed, of being useless. I see now how this is just internal considering, not real, not who I am, but I don't feel like I have much to offer or any business trying to help others when I am so...fragmented. In general, I feel as though I have nothing of value to say, to contribute, because I am not yet far enough along. I actually feel a palpable, physical sense of panic/dread after I post on the forum because I am never sure whether I am being helpful or narcissistic--trying to make a meal of my brethren--and the idea of being put straight because my thinking or understanding is wrong scares me as though my very life were in danger!
I know that my "know-it-all" identity does not want to actually acknowledge it's ignorance and it's inherent "hunger." Ugh. And I know that this is the point to these communications! So please, mirror away, I'll survive and hopefully learn.
Perhaps someone else would be more helpful in mirroring as I think I'm too close to my own situation and by extension yours to clearly see what the way out of this particular maze is. But definitely keep posting!
Interesting though how the devaluing of your/my worth and the "know-it-all" identity work together as two sides of the same coin! What got me past the fear of posting is knowing/trusting that the members here are replying out of love not to feed off you in any way. What also helps is knowing that the way to overcome the fear is by seeing it and practicing dealing with what comes up. Everytime I've allowed the fear to have it's own way, the situation only gets worse. It also helps me when I stop focusing on what I feel and help someone else even if it's just posting to the welcome thread. It stops the focusing on myself and places it in perspective (or so I think).
Evolutionary1 said:
I have been doing the breathing program for a few months now, and I suspect that the predator I've recognized more and more in myself over the past few years is becoming more vicious in its quest to become "me" before it's too late. Well, I hope this is the case, and I hope I'm winning. :)
Aside from my personal issues, I have noticed in the last few days that whenever cruel, critical, or fearful thoughts bubble up in my mind about others, they are of the same nature as the degrading thoughts I've had about myself over the years. I can see my mind trying to project these labels on others as though this could alleviate my own suffering or guilt. They are not thoughts I choose, but the kind that intrude uninvited. I realize that, to a degree, my anxiety and inner considering make up the bulk of my evidence that "others" are cruel--though I've always thought myself kind because I keep these thoughts to myself, usually. I'm also seeing that, when others are cruel, it is their predator and there is really no sane reason to fear "their" predator more than the one living in my very own basement.
Yes, I think that the predator sees it's food supply lessening, it fuels its fear of dying and starts to grasp desperately at straws to regain control. Oddly enough, I think it's always in this state and will react in the same way even if it has control. By this I mean that even if it's well fed, it uses the same tactics because it is greedy so the only way out of this cycle for you/me/all of us, in my opinion, is to stop the feeding. I hope that makes sense. That last sentence was well said by the way!
I know that my need to be liked or "admired" can be a handicap when it comes to seeking the truth. But for the record:
Truth seeker, in my earliest posts, you responded to something I said with such compassion and sincerity and I was encouraged to keep posting because I saw that one
can be nice and helpful at the same time--and that my fears were, indeed, essentially in my mind. So thank you.
Evolutionary1 said:
And to you all, thank you for your bravery in sharing your experiences. Hopefully we can help each other past the fears that cuts us off from communion and integration. In the mean time, I will do my best to put away inner considering and "get over myself" so that I can better here what is being said.
Thanks for saying that. I've been really trying to be aware of what I'm posting so for those who do post I may take a couple of days to respond as I really want to take in what's being said and see what applies and what doesn't so that I can reply accordingly, learn and get past this.
bjorn said:
You have something to proof against yourself. Maybe some ‘false personality’ who keeps you telling that you have to show some kind of appearance all the time.
Maybe it’s a idea, and you most likely are. But to find out what the ‘make-up’ of this ‘false personality’ is all about. You may get some clues by observing your mom since you are most likely repeating some patterns of her.
Definitely! This is the first time I'm starting to look at it this way meaning in terms of seeing her narcissism as well as my own. Well my mother died almost three years ago so all I have are memories, but I'm going by the ones that invoked strong responses. There is s much that I disagreed with her about as I was growing up and I'm finding it interesting to explore how I exhibit the same/similar behaviors.
bjorn said:
[quote author=truth seeker]What do you mean by angel? As in rescuing people?
Can be, actually I meant it more as. Being the ‘civilized’ and ‘polite’ one. Maybe it’s part of the ‘role’ you demand yourself to play.
[/quote]
Well, I remember my mother always being concerned with what/how she was thought of/perceived by others. This was not just people she knew but also strangers, I believe. I too picked this up. I think that led to the always being nice/polite program. It's probably done so that it makes it easier to not only have to deal with "bad/negative" feelings and encounters that would then lead to me feeling like a bad/negative person, but also (and I'm just coming to these realizations as I write this) it would always put me in the "right". Like: " "I" was so nice to that person, why were "they" acting that way?" This way, I'm never at fault! This "then" firmly keeps in place the mask I have that says "I'm a good/righteous person." Absolutely amazing! I clearly understand now what you meant when you said this is a dangerous program. This is the same pathology that runs the world.
This is why wars are fought.
This is a why people are tortured and killed. This realization has allowed me to see what I perceived as
the other. The same people (politicians, narcissists, the everyday person on the street, etc.) whose behavior I never understood and would say to myself "I could never be like that!". "I" really am "them". This is really something to chew on.
I also wanted to thank everyone who posted. Thanks so much for really breaking it down for me. I look forward to continuing this discussion and hopefully helping ourselves come to better clarity regarding this subject.
