How to deal with Fear?

go2 said:
Doesn't all fear trigger the same instinctive-motor polyvagal fight or flight response?

No. :)

Levine:
Briefly, Porges's theory states that, in humans, three basic neural energy subsystems underpin the overall state of the nervous system and correlative behaviors and emotions. The most primitive of these three [Unmyelinated Primitive Vagus System] (spanning about 500 million years) stems from its origin in early fish species.* The function of this primitive system is immobilization, metabolic conservation, and shutdown. Highly traumatized and chronically neglected or abused individuals are dominated by the immobilization/shutdown system.

On the other hand, acutely traumatized people (often by a single recent event and without a history of repeated trauma, neglect or abuse) are generally dominated by the sympathetic fight/flight system. They tend to suffer from flashbacks and racing hearts, while the chronically traumatized individuals generally show no change or even a decrease in heart rate. These sufferers tend to be plagued with dissociative symptoms, includ-ing frequent spacyness, unreality', depersonalization, and various somatic and health complaints.

But does it really matter when you need to ask the question, "How to DEAL with fear?

When I hear residents of Seattle are breathing ten hot particles of Fukashima radiation per day and I experience fear; is this instinctive or learned?

I'd say, it's much more imaginary/learned fear than instinctive. It's not your senses that send signals of danger to your nervous system, that's your mind. It's YOU who triggers that fear. Yes, it is then perceived by your nervous system as real fear, and your body reacts accordingly, releasing chemicals, changing your heart beat, affecting your thinking. But there is no real enemy to deal with, so that fear along with all chemicals and body tension stays stored in your body.

In the case of real (physical) danger, it's mainly your body which is designed to deal with the situation. When fear is created by your mind, it's also the mind that has to solve the problem, so it doesn't really matter which part of the nervous system has been activated and in what way. To be more precise, it certainly doesn't hurt to know and understand your body's reactions, but it doesn't help much in dealing with that fear either.

g said:
How do I determine whether a fear is instinctive or learned?

Does your nervous system's reaction protects you from the danger? Can it do its job?

g said:
I don't see the value of your distinction, POB. It might be useful to distinguish whether the triggering data is based on old programs that distort the truth of the thinking and feeling centers evaluation of the data. Many fears are based on false programming of the emotional or thinking centers or mistaking new data for old. Is this what you mean by a learned fear?

I think it's crucial. :)

Again, I may be wrong but as I understand it right now, to find an answer to the question at hand we need to focus on the mind and not on the nervous system.
 
Possibility of Being said:
Again, I may be wrong but as I understand it right now, to find an answer to the question at hand we need to focus on the mind and not on the nervous system.

I think that you are right in this, PoB.

What it seems to me is that if you are faced with someone trying to mug you, a car accident, the earth falling away beneath your feet, a comet falling on your head, etc., this is an instinctive type of fear.

However, reading something, thinking something, remembering something and then becoming afraid or panicked - this is an imaginary type of fear. And this, to me, is the predator type of fear. This is the type of fear that needs to be examined and controlled. It should not be let to control us.

This is the type of fear that the PTB use on us, that is HAARPed on us, that we, ourselves, consume ourselves in.

I think that the quote by Paul Atreides in the movie Dune is something to think about.

Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death
that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will let it pass over me and
through me.
And when it has gone past me, I will turn
to see fear's path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

This is the fear of the mind.

I find myself repeating the below quote to myself when I find myself imagining something that brings on that fearful state:

There is nothing to fear but fear itself.

Which, again, when it is brought up by the mind/imagination, is pretty much very true.

However, real fear, fear while being attacked in some form is a completely different matter. And, at the same time, sometimes during an attack, if we can see our way past the fear, and act consciously, instead of instinctively, we could alter the way things turn out. Such as running blindly in front of a car while being chased, instead of thinking about where we are running.

Just the way I am seeing things at this time.
 
What helped a lot to deal with fear -
To loose control of self importance gear.
I'm just a peck, or dust, so small.
If death, or trouble comes a long,
I worry not, I'm calm, because
It will not cease the Universe !

:)
 
[quote author=go2]
When I hear residents of Seattle are breathing ten hot particles of Fukashima radiation per day and I experience fear; is this instinctive or learned? How do I determine whether a fear is instinctive or learned?
[/quote]

Is it fear that you feel in the beginning or is it something related but different - like anxiety or apprehension? Anxiety can be a vague sense of disquiet - where the threat is not felt immediately. But it can quickly turn into fear. This is what I think may be happening but I could be wrong. The intellectual center takes the information and does a "what if" analysis. The lower emotional center does not like the picture that is created and this may lead to anxiety. Working much faster than the intellect, the lower emotional center collects images it may have been seen in different contexts and starts projecting them. The instinctive-motor center is aroused as it appears that there is a threat to the body. However, the instinctive-motor center cannot readily determine the appropriate response - fight or flight - in this case. Where is the danger that it could fight or run from? Without the opportunity to actualize the mobilized arousal energy in the body, fear results.

To deal with such situations, the intellect needs to figure out what possible precautions can be taken to mitigate the threat. If the lower emotional center runs the show, then the fear could further drive paranoia and obsessive behavior and it could hijack the intellectual center to do its bidding (which is what was most likely happening in the "June 26 2011" thread - osit). Depending on the level of arousal, there could be a large amount of energy generated from the perceived threat and the intellectual center may not be able to handle it straight away and the lower emotional center can run amok with that energy. The fact that the lower emotional center and the moving/instinctive center both work faster than the intellectual center makes it difficult to "hold the horses" in this situation. So a technique like pipe breathing which engages the parasympathetic response helps in holding the horses while the intellect is brought online and can objectively deliberate the situation. Such a response is appropriate in this context because there is no immediate danger to contend with.



[quote author=Guardian]
When I'm afraid, I calm my mind and tell myself "It's just a meat suit, if I kill it, I can get another one...and it won't be nearly as old and wrinkly as this one".
[/quote]

I have found that thinking on these lines is very helpful in certain situations. When we read about topics like global cataclysm,cometary bombardment, again there is anxiety which can turn into fear and even paranoia and obsession. The moving/instinctive part or the gut brain is very complex, works at a very high speed mostly in an involuntary way and is concerned primarily with protecting the physical body in the "here and now". Its focus is narrow and it cannot respond appropriately to situations that are "out there" in the future. In this specific context (global cataclysms), even the intellectual center by itself is not likely to figure out a completely convincing method of ensuring physical survival. This may result in a sense of hopelessness and frustration.

One way is to "not think about such things" and focus on the "here and now" which is useful. Deeply contemplating the fact that our bodies (meat suits) do have an expiry date attached to it and sooner or later it is going to end may also be helpful. If we truly understand that consciousness does not really die - only the body does (as Guardian stated above with her characteristic flair and economy of words :)) then it may go a long way in utilizing the present time in a manner which is most fruitful for the evolution of consciousness without distractions and debilitating negative emotions. It could help to disengage from (in the sense of not identifying) and eventually tame the raging horses of emotions related to the survival of the physical body and engage higher human functions relating to serving others and gaining knowledge in the troubled times ahead.

My 2 cents fwiw
 
Possibility of Being said:
Again, I may be wrong but as I understand it right now, to find an answer to the question at hand we need to focus on the mind and not on the nervous system.

Yes, I see what you are saying. Thank you for clarifying what I misunderstood, PoB. The thread is very useful, as I have been experiencing the fear response, triggered by real harassment mixed with imagination. I find social engagement and writing particularly useful in reducing the mobilized energy of the fear response . Once mobilized, a vicious cycle can be initiated which is difficult (for me) to exit. Thank you everyone.

Edit: Obyvatel, your description of the Fukashima hot particle anxiety-to-fear trip helps a lot, as does the practical suggestions. Thanks.
 
Nienna Eluch said:
Possibility of Being said:
Again, I may be wrong but as I understand it right now, to find an answer to the question at hand we need to focus on the mind and not on the nervous system.

I think that you are right in this, PoB.

Me too. When I was a child, I had so much energy and exhuberance. I felt that my mind, body and spirit was totally open to experiencing everything that there was to experience in any given moment. This was a bit too much for the adults and others around me to bear, so through a process of repeated reprimands and punishments over a period of time, I learned to restrain almost all my excitement. This felt like a kind of 'closing around' my feelings, like holding it all inside and then disowning it in order to forget what I knew I was doing and get on with 'behaving'.

After that, anytime my limbic system was activated, my inhibition conditioning went into effect and I would begin to feel a bit guilty for just having these sensations. I also became painfully self-conscious about the whole thing. From what I've been able to determine, the combination of arousal, suppression, guilt, denial, self-consciousness and thought projections of being disciplined got rolled up together to become 'fear'.

Much of my general behavior patterns then became influenced by this 'fear'. Since I was denying part of myself, I "forgot" what I was really feeling and came to believe that I was feeling 'fear' on a regular basis without really knowing why.

Once I realized that the physiological response to fear and excitement are identical, my 'reawakening' started at a visceral level, working its way to the intellectual where I was soon able to put into words how I was experiencing a major change in my life.

I believe it is safe to say that my whole life experienced a major change. Probably 99% of the mundane crap that previously evoked my behavior-controlling 'fear' response now gets automatically translated to excitement and I describe this as having reconnected to my earlier self.

I now perceive so much as novelty, or as opportunities to learn something new about myself as well as something in my vicinity, near or far - and there's so much to experience and learn - that I can barely contain myself sometimes! Even my kids have noticed and now occasionally tease me about how excited I can get just having certain conversations or enjoying certain activities!

So that's how I've identified and dismissed the old illegitimate 'fear' response.
 
Bud said:
Once I realized that the physiological response to fear and excitement are identical, my 'reawakening' started at a visceral level, working its way to the intellectual where I was soon able to put into words how I was experiencing a major change in my life.

I believe it is safe to say that my whole life experienced a major change. Probably 99% of the mundane crap that previously evoked my behavior-controlling 'fear' response now gets automatically translated to excitement and I describe this as having reconnected to my earlier self.

It is an amazing idea to embrace the mobilized energy of fear to be excited about experiencing the full measure of our lives. That is harnessing the horses. Thank you for putting into words how you got to be full of fear and anxiety and how you escaped. It is my story too, Bud; except I am still climbing over the wall.

Edit: That is harnessing the horses.
 
One thing that might help with imaginary fear is to use the mind to 'fight' itself. As PoB pointed out, unless your body is in danger, chances are your fear is imaginary. We 'worry' about things because our imagination takes over, but worrying is just a waste of energy, whether the threat is real or imaginary. The only thing that helps is practical action - Work. It may be very possible that I could die from radiation poisoning, but does it do me any good to worry about it? Nope. In fact, if I just sit and worry about it, chances are better that I WILL be poisoned. So what to do? If the danger is a potentially real one, here's an exercise: force yourself to state the problem clearly to yourself. What is the danger? How might it affect your life? What is it, exactly that you're worried about? Then, make it your goal to do something about it, take some practical step to solve the problem, and DO it. Then see how you feel.

There's really no place for worry in the Work without practical action. Otherwise it's just mechanical suffering, wasting energy, being a "taxi cab" for negative emotions that keep you passive. Take a hint from nature. Our polyvagal system was DESIGNED for some type of action. If we stand a fighting chance, we fight. If we can escape, we flee. If things seem hopeless, our body shuts down to give us less painful death, but in that case, it's just the "meat sack" saying, "OK, this has been a blast, I don't stand a chance, so at least I'm gonna make this as easy as possible". Unless there's a comet above my head signalling my immediate demise, there's SOMETHING I can do (and even in that case, what's the point in worrying?). If I'm worried about radiation, I can read up, do some detox protocols, move, etc. If I'm worried about what people think about me I can start a conversation with them, put myself in situations where I purposefully make myself out to be an idiot and see that the world doesn't come crashing down (just my self-importance). If I'm worried for the sake of humanity, I can do something to try to wake up whoever will listen. Etc. But as long as I do nothing, I'm just wasting away.
 
[quote author=AI]
Unless there's a comet above my head signalling my immediate demise, there's SOMETHING I can do...[/quote]

I've thought about the comet thing too. In such a situation, if I can plainly see that no escape is possible, I intend to face it with wide open eyes and a willingness to experience the situation in its totality.

I feel sort of like it's the least I can do for Universe - to unflinchingly record the event as part of the unedited experience of whatever may survive of me on some level.
 
I had a dream not too long ago which represented a test on courage - It was dark, and people were running everywhere in panic in Nazi Germany. The end had come. I knew that I had to unflinchingly accept whatever would happen or I would have my soul smashed.
Then a clown, he looked just like the one from Steven King's IT, approached me, smiling diabolically as he read my mind.
His claws reached out to rip out my heart with a look of such evil and pleasure... Of course I woke up, having failed the test.
Actually I had read a session with the Cs on torture, soul smashing and Laura's article comparing Nazi germany and the present day US. Shiver.

One of the things I had been pondering was, would I betray or lie about someone under torture or threat? I think I would and regret it ever more.
I know I could face death without fear, but prolonged torture?
 
(Fear of Dying) – from the Spirits of trauma thread
"I am going to talk about death. It is not something many people like to talk about. Do you know why? There is a fear we all feel. They say it is fear of the unknown. I say it is fear of the known, but not realized consciously. When we go through life,'the traumas we experience stay in us as painful knots, and are tightened by the spirits of trauma. If we don't untie these knots during our lives, we are going to have this done after our physical deaths.
…. …..[]
Michael kept talking in a slow rhythm. "If you let this point of hurt crystallize in your memory as an unresolved knot, it will become an incubator, a womb to rejuvenate and to nourish a hungry evil spirit that has been waiting in your genetic memory line for many generations of your ancestors for this chance. It will rise up from the collective memory of your ancestors and start a life of its own as a spirit of fear. It will poison your life.
…. []
"It is true that when a person is filled with fears, he becomes vulnerable to any type of psychic influence because he has lost a connection with himself, the connection being the ultimate protection. [...]

A little while back, was out walking and happened to end up standing at a spot where once I stood as a small child on the edge of a nearby wood, I recall it was late in the evening back then and the wood was very dark, as it was now, I wouldn’t venture in to such a dark place with nothing but dark shadows overlapping the silhouette of trees and the feeling that something was staring back at me there, hoping I would venture in, I remember even while walking away it seemed like something was stretching out from there, I would turn around pretending not to be scared, fearing if it new how I felt, it might come after me and catch me, and once out of sight round the corner of the adjoining field, I ran and later trying to shake off the feeling, think about something else.

I’ve been trying to recall all the notable and sometimes insignificant memories of life, and looking at them from differing perspectives, reconciling them, standing at the wood on the same spot was an opportunity, and walking through the darkness and seeing my ignorance and fear for what it was, but half way through there it was, a fear of something or just me projecting, what ever it was, it was still there and logic/reason could not shift it, I thought ok I’m not out of the woods (metaphorically), it was my imagination perhaps making me feel that something fearful was to my right but what can one make out of the darkness. The thought that I was not quiet alone in that I was accompanying my younger self through the dark wood was somewhat calming, though on reflection now maybe there was more, my younger self, me and something common to both that’s always there, but now a little less, fear.

Although, sharing the wood experience might not be a good idea, relating to fear be it a projection, coming from inside out or outside in or whatever, fear to me is the only thing that causes trouble or inaction, perhaps stemming from a tradition of separation in one form or another, divided and in darkness, ignorance, those little i’s, but who knows everything.

It seems the more energy I give to something the more it grows, even with house plants if I give them energy they grow, to some extent it seems my fears grow likewise, but it seems if I try and put the energy in to understanding what the fear is, it seems to reduce the force influencing my choice, but a little fear seems useful. OSIT

(added) In that a little sense of fear can save ones mechanical life and others around you, but knowing if there is a real threat takes work, so maybe if one fears ‘nothing’ there’s a problem as there’s nothing to fear from nothing, other things are just getting in the way programs and such, preventing one from growing, my two bits.

Note: not recommending going through a spooky wood, one might get injured or eaten., hyperdimensional realities terms and conditions apply.
edit spelling
 
Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death
that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will let it pass over me and
through me.
And when it has gone past me, I will turn
to see fear's path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

That's what I tried to say. It's just momentary, I think the person eventually will find the root of his fear, and be tired of it.
 
Nienna Eluch said:
However, real fear, fear while being attacked in some form is a completely different matter. And, at the same time, sometimes during an attack, if we can see our way past the fear, and act consciously, instead of instinctively, we could alter the way things turn out. Such as running blindly in front of a car while being chased, instead of thinking about where we are running.

Just the way I am seeing things at this time.

This is a confusing area to me. I wonder if "seeing past the fear" is disassociation, because I have done this. I have been in certain situations where I feel adrenaline and fear; but it does not overwhelm me and I reacted quickly and with (perhaps false) confidence that I was doing the correct thing for the situation.

I don't feel the fear of things I cannot control or affect. I always ask myself, "What is the worst that can happen?" And, I can answer that. Physical pain is just that; it passes and can be tolerated. Death is a reality of life and can happen at any moment.

My fears begin with my family. I experience the most fear when I begin to worry about my children. When I worry about my son going to school and having to face what I faced in my school years. Fear of some possible unknown future I am able to let go of fairly easily. Gurdjieff made remarks about irrational fears being extreme energy wasters. I used to agonize over irrational fears and it was hard for me to let go of them, but I did and now they come and go quickly.
 
I want to make clear in my thought, that it is not my experiences that fear is an isolated phenomenon of one center of function. To even begin to understand and overcome fear we cannot separate the body from the mind. I have to be present in the thinking, feeling and instinctive-motor centers simultaneously in this moment to experience life without fear. I have experienced this phenomenon in moments of extreme danger and know fear exists only before or after the event.

That being recognized, I must trust the instinct of fear arousal in the body as lawful and bring the attention of the emotional center and thinking center into play and coordinate a response as a three-brained being. It is my experience this can Work with immediate physical danger and why not with remote danger or risk of small possibility? Perhaps no action can be taken, but if I ignore the role of the instinctive predator detector, all will be lost as I disassociate into the remote fastness of imagination, where I have lived most of my life. I wish all faculties present in each and every moment, or I become identified with the single brain experience of an event.

Here are a few quotes which further illuminate my thinking on the real question of “How to Deal With Fear”.

Herald of the Coming Good page 34 said:
“From what has just been said it must be obvious to every sane-thinking person that the first task necessary for the real education of man is to develop in each separately formed center the natural need to blend simultaneously the functions of one part with the others, in order that the manifestations of these three parts, formed separately according to the laws of nature in man’s general psyche, and which inevitably demand a separate education, may be harmoniously united, and may, in the period of responsible life, work together according to their normal capacities.”

Reality of Being by Jeanne De Salzmann page 160 said:
We have to understand fear in our lives, a fundamental fact. Indeed, so long as our total consciousness has not been liberated from fear, we will not be able to go very far, to penetrate deeply in ourselves. By its very nature fear is inevitably opposed to our entire search. But what is the basis for fear in us? Does fear as such really exist? Have we ever experienced it as a reality in itself and not simply the feeling that precedes or follows an event? When we are truly face-to-face with the event--for example, with danger--are we afraid? In fact, fear only arises at the moment the thinking fixes on the past or the future.

If our attention is in the active present, to think of yesterday or of tomorrow is simply inattention, an inattention that engenders fear. When we give our total attention to the present, when we are wholly present, fear does not exist. We see that we do not know, that we cannot respond. In this state of complete uncertainty, we can discover that which is true. If we wish to penetrate deeply into ourselves, and see what is here and even beyond, we must have no fear of any kind, not of failure or suffering, and above all not fear of death.
 
Good thread!

Thanks to everybody for sharing their thoughts on this subject. It's like a rich knowledge-meal.

While reading through this, I was trying to identify those times when I have felt fear, and realized that they didn't come about very often. I have experienced plenty of anxiety, where a threat or danger isn't unknown in shape, nature and scope, but my ability to deal with it effectively is limited and I feel trapped into a course of life which seems unpleasant. Banking and interest payments and other hard-to-avoid traps come to mind. But that doesn't seem to be the same as fear, which I classify more as a flash of adrenaline and a racing heart and the thought of being eaten alive. (Though I find anxiety, like fear, is often a reaction with a strong physiological component.)

When contemplating fear reactions in others, for instance, during that bird-flu scare two Winters ago, I saw a marked difference between myself and others. This was not a fear I experienced, because I had the knowledge required to recognize the shape, scope and true nature of that threat. (Much, thanks to this forum and its researchers.)

And once again it strikes me that the great maxim applies: Knowledge Protects. Knowledge is truly the key; it makes the unknown known, provides options to follow toward optimal outcomes. Knowledge dissolves fear. Fear can be useful in small doses in a mechanical way, but in our modern world, it often works against us, making us vulnerable to manipulation and irrational behavior.

Funny thing is, I never really before linked the idea of knowledge protecting to the way fears works. I can't imagine why; it seems really obvious.

And Knowledge can also dissolve anxiety. I think perhaps, as I write this, that anxiety and fear are possibly the same thing. —Anxiety comes from not knowing how to get out of a trap, and thus is just auto-reaction to another form of ignorance. Whenever I feel anxiety, taking the money example again, I will sit down and go through finances in my head until I come up with a workable solution. Then anxiety vanishes, because I know what to do.

Perhaps anxiety and fear are the same thing after all, but with an added component? Maybe anxiety occurs further up the brain-tree, so to speak, as it involves more complex analysis. Jumping from a snake is one thing. But recognizing that a letter from the bank is another kind of snake requires involvement from higher thinking centers, and so the fear is flavored differently. . ?
 
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