How to KNOW that one is a machine?
- Thread starter Andrey
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- i am the machine!
BHelmet
The Living Force
Kurt Vonnegut’s “Breakfast of Champions” is a must-read (IMO) on this topic. It manages to be an utterly bizarre, absurd tragi-comedy while also providing a lot of food for thought.
“The view of humans as biological machines, initially accepted by Vonnegut, is counteracted by Rabo Karabekian, (a character in the book) the abstract artist who suggests "Our awareness is all that is alive and maybe sacred in any of us. Everything else about us is dead machinery."
“The view of humans as biological machines, initially accepted by Vonnegut, is counteracted by Rabo Karabekian, (a character in the book) the abstract artist who suggests "Our awareness is all that is alive and maybe sacred in any of us. Everything else about us is dead machinery."
Andrey
Jedi
Hello.
Well This is certainly a very debatable topic. One thing that comes to mind is if humans were infinitely malleable blank slates, then the idea that we are nothing but machines would make sense. However, this has been concluded as not true, for the most part. Mind control and psychological programming works, but only after long, arduous and patient bypassing of many natural and intuitive aspects of human nature like moral reasoning, conscience, basic common sense, etc. This can be argued as proof of "soul essence," for the lack of a better term. With that being said, this does not mean we are completely immune to programming, and that's obvious from observing humanity. In this aspect humans are machine-like when manipulated via their weaknesses and vulnerabilities. But only to some extent. At one point you can't blame everything on programming. Being nescient is one thing, but continuing to do something that goes against personal conscience is a matter of personal choice that the individual has to live with.
At the end of the day, I would say many humans have "soul potential," but it takes hard work to grow it to it's full potential. Until then, they are vulnerable to outside control.
I think the term "machine" may not be the best term for this state of being so vulnerable to programming. Some people have used "computers" but I think that misses the mark as well. Maybe a more accurate analogy is due.
Well This is certainly a very debatable topic. One thing that comes to mind is if humans were infinitely malleable blank slates, then the idea that we are nothing but machines would make sense. However, this has been concluded as not true, for the most part. Mind control and psychological programming works, but only after long, arduous and patient bypassing of many natural and intuitive aspects of human nature like moral reasoning, conscience, basic common sense, etc. This can be argued as proof of "soul essence," for the lack of a better term. With that being said, this does not mean we are completely immune to programming, and that's obvious from observing humanity. In this aspect humans are machine-like when manipulated via their weaknesses and vulnerabilities. But only to some extent. At one point you can't blame everything on programming. Being nescient is one thing, but continuing to do something that goes against personal conscience is a matter of personal choice that the individual has to live with.
At the end of the day, I would say many humans have "soul potential," but it takes hard work to grow it to it's full potential. Until then, they are vulnerable to outside control.
I think the term "machine" may not be the best term for this state of being so vulnerable to programming. Some people have used "computers" but I think that misses the mark as well. Maybe a more accurate analogy is due.
Very very interesting, and makes sense if that is indeed correct that G used that word. Not to diss the imagination of late 19th and early 20th century thinkers, but maybe their concept of "code programming" machines was ahead of their times, leaving AI out of that speculation. Their version of machines, might be more steam punk oriented, designed to do 'this' or 'that' over and over = automation. Or just lost in translation, I already forgot if G used english as primary for his writings.
Onto the original thread, yes we are machines, especially if viewed through our current "scientific" understanding of it. I hear reverberations of the intelligent design and evolution guys, which I think a mix of both is likely closer answer. But then, GOD did create us, so we are really divine machines, as the math and physics of GOD breaths through every atom and cell in our bodies, at near infinite complex chemical and mathematical perfection. I can't even imagine when "earth man" can make robots that can replace a light bulb, or take off a few screws off a fellow robots' arm, so it can repair/replace said arm.
Sorry still got off topic, the machine is automaton, us. We do copy and replicate only: physically, mentally, emotionally, basically everything. New original creativity is extremely rare and minute, compare to what GOD evolutionarily had us go through, per HIS grand perfected design. It would do us well to acquire or uplift our soul potential, if only we could stress our systems just enough in everyway, so we can Work out those programs, and take that very important next step on our journey and relationship with GOD, through Christ of course. No pain no gain, No free lunches, learning is fun, truth will set you free, etc,.