I keep slipping

[Maia]

Hello: "It's like he's reprogrammed to believe something, and refuse to see anything differently, so I stopped sharing a long time ago, to keep the peace, and respect that he is in a different place than I."

Hi, and I know exactly where you are coming from.

While I have been married 37 years to a really wonderful, sweet man - he is STUBBORN and programmed.

He believes the news on the TV and in the Papers. He believes NASA and 911 was not a false flag operation.

Personally I have found, to keep the peace, we don't discuss our differences much, we try and concentrate on what we do have in common.

People wake up only when they are ready to wake up and all you can do is seed them, but the old adage: "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink" is very much right on.

I have also noticed, as I am 58 and he is 66, that as most (not all) people age they get set more in their ways, they become less open to new ideas.

My husband majored in Math and minored in psychology. He is qualified to teach college trig and was into quantum physics long ago, so he's one smart cookie (about 20 point higher IQ than me probably) but he is closed minded and STUBBORN.

He has a very good job at a company that is partially federally funded but has nothing to do with his major or minor so he has been out of the loop quantum physics wise for now 30 years.

And remember, what we, the common man are told, quantum physics wise is usually 30-50 years behind what those "in the know know".

Welcome back to SOTT.

 

[Thor]

You have no idea how much I understand your situation. In itself, not being able to share something that matters so much to you with someone that matters so much to you is agonizing (at least in my experience).

Yes. The feeling of being alone, is the worst in my case.

If you want to (and happen to live in the Copenhagen area) I'd be happy to meet up to talk to about the Work, the Forum, etc. Personally, I'd love to have someone to share these things with that don't just tolerate my "weirdness" but who actually sees the world in the same light.

I am aware that this may be in contradiction to recommendations on the Forum, which is why I write in in a public thread rather than a PM. As I have written about elsewhere on the Forum I am suffering from a rather lengthy concussion (3,5 months now with very little sign of improvement :() and therefore try to limit computer time to an absolute minimum. This is not said to manipulate or evoke pity but it does suck.

Naturally, the invitation to meet up goes out to other long-time forum members in Denmark or southern Sweden (unfortunately, I am not sure that I qualify, myself as I have been on the Forum only since last summer).

No hard feelings if you don't think it's a good idea but at least you have the option :)

 

[anart]

I am aware that this may be in contradiction to recommendations on the Forum,

Which makes one wonder why you wrote it at all?

 

[Niall]

I am aware that this may be in contradiction to recommendations on the Forum

May be? No Thor, it IS against Forum recommendations. Thank you for being open about it at least by posting your invitation on the open forum. Every context is different of course, but in this case it's quite obvious that the situation is ripe for trouble - for each of you and ultimately for the network as a whole. Think about it for a minute: Helle has asked for help because she observed that she "kept slipping". She has received very good feedback about her situation (and can receive so very much more if she keeps up her momentum of networking via the forum). What do you think your subjective understanding of the forum and the Work can do to help her by meeting her on a one-to-one basis? Will this really be helping Helle?

 

[pstott]

I can sympathize. I am in much the same boat as regards discussing anything remotely depressing with my wife.
She not only thinks I am paranoid, but she says it sucks her energy when I talk about psycopaths in power or conspiracies etc. and she goes into a state of depression for days.

Mind you she does have a lot to deal with her health issues - she is a Cystic Fibrosis patient and has a fairly rigorous routine just to stay functional. So I don't push it, and I tend to avoid topics that might push the wrong buttons...

 

[Thor]

I am aware that this may be in contradiction to recommendations on the Forum

May be? No Thor, it IS against Forum recommendations. Thank you for being open about it at least by posting your invitation on the open forum. Every context is different of course, but in this case it's quite obvious that the situation is ripe for trouble - for each of you and ultimately for the network as a whole. Think about it for a minute: Helle has asked for help because she observed that she "kept slipping". She has received very good feedback about her situation (and can receive so very much more if she keeps up her momentum of networking via the forum). What do you think your subjective understanding of the forum and the Work can do to help her by meeting her on a one-to-one basis? Will this really be helping Helle?

Kniall and Anart,

Thanks for your replies. As I also wrote, I have a concussion which I didn't check the exact rules myself. You have now pointed it out that meeting up IS against Forum recommendations and I will naturally respect it.

I agree with your assessment that Helle is receiving good feedback on the Forum and I did not intend that meeting should be a substitute for Forum participation.

I would personally like to have someone to talk to about the Work, the Forum, etc. as I feel quite alone with all these things. I know that the Forum exists and I am also grateful for the feedback I receive when I post. However, there still remains a hole that is hard to fill without personal interaction. It is when you talk to someone and are all animated about how interesting this or that topic is, how scary this or that fact is, etc. It is the personal interaction that is hard to replace by writing.

Now, one could claim that I am just trying to get my own emotional needs met and how is that helping Helle? I guess that what it comes down to is that I would like to have a friend with whom I could share and discuss the Work. However, you can't just ask someone, do you want to be my friend and even if Helle and I met we might not get along very well and friendship is therefore quite hypothetical.

Also, I reasoned that sometimes it can be helpful if you know someone that has a similar interest and you can help each other by reminding each other to keep at it.

Kniall, could you explain what you mean when you write that "...in this case it's quite obvious that the situation is ripe for trouble - for each of you and ultimately for the network as a whole." Is it this particular situation that is ripe for trouble or is it meeting up with other Forum members in general. What are the dangers to Helle, to me and to the network?

I don't ask to be troublesome but I want to make sure that I understand the reasoning behind your argument.

I am sure that there are other threads discussing how to handle the situation of not having like minded people to talk to and will look into them when I am able to.

And just to make sure that I have answered your questions ( :)).

What do you think your subjective understanding of the forum and the Work can do to help her by meeting her on a one-to-one basis?

You have no idea how much I understand your situation. In itself, not being able to share something that matters so much to you with someone that matters so much to you is agonizing (at least in my experience).

Yes. The feeling of being alone, is the worst in my case.

My intent was to alleviate the feeling of being alone with these thoughts on a daily basis that both Helle and I experience. Your question did put a smile on my face as you are quite right that there is no way that my subjective (and it would also be correct to say limited) knowledge and experience with the Work could be a substitute for the feedback received from the Forum.

"Will this really be helping Helle?" I don't know for certain but that was the goal provided that she thought it was a good idea and if it made sense for each of us to continue to talk together.

 

[anart]

However, there still remains a hole that is hard to fill without personal interaction. It is when you talk to someone and are all animated about how interesting this or that topic is, how scary this or that fact is, etc. It is the personal interaction that is hard to replace by writing.

If you've not yet read Unholy Hungers by Barbara Hort, I recommend it strongly. Your interest in Helle is for you, not Helle. You are 'hungry' - for attention, for energy, for interaction, for what you imagine that Helle can give you since she has already voiced her dissatisfaction with her own situation. See?

Feeding does not lead to growth. The book will help you understand the details of that - as will all the reading in the Narcissism section of the recommended reading.

One of the main reasons personal meetings are dissuaded is exactly this type of feeding - illusions, projections and a very, very slippery slope.

 

[RedFox]

Hi Thor

Kniall, could you explain what you mean when you write that "...in this case it's quite obvious that the situation is ripe for trouble - for each of you and ultimately for the network as a whole." Is it this particular situation that is ripe for trouble or is it meeting up with other Forum members in general. What are the dangers to Helle, to me and to the network?

Have you read the thread Forum Personal Messages and Predators?
To put it bluntly, one or other of you could be a pathological predator looking for there next victim (food source). The result of that would be feeding, manipulation and damage to one or other of you (and those around you - including the forum and all it stands for, as 'this is where you met').....given their are 3D (and 4D) forces who would love to see this place gone/fail, this would be a perfect way to attack/shut down the place.

....even if you are not a pathological predator, all humans are narcisitically wounded and have developed feeding dynamics, so unless you have reached the point where you can observe and control you're machine well enough in all situations, it is likely to develop into some sort of feeding dynamic.....and play out as above as if one or other was a pathological predator. A purely STS dynamic.

Heck at the very least it would distract both of you from the Work/forum! (always expect attack [distraction/feeding], and know the methods of the same)

There has been a history (some of it documented on the forum) of this sort of thing having happened before.

I am aware that this may be in contradiction to recommendations on the Forum,

Which makes one wonder why you wrote it at all?

Now may be a good time to look at what part of your self wanted this......was it lonely, or was it 'hungry'?

On the flip side, it seems that the more you work on yourself (and understand how your machine works, and how things in this world work) the less 'lonely' one becomes. That and improving diet and removing sources of inflammation/stress.

It probably worth pointing out that the connection between food (and how inflamed you're body is) and feeding dynamics between people/STS behaviours is really quite strong....whenever I am inflamed, my STS behaviours go into overdrive. fwiw

 

[Beau]

Kniall, could you explain what you mean when you write that "...in this case it's quite obvious that the situation is ripe for trouble - for each of you and ultimately for the network as a whole." Is it this particular situation that is ripe for trouble or is it meeting up with other Forum members in general. What are the dangers to Helle, to me and to the network?

I don't ask to be troublesome but I want to make sure that I understand the reasoning behind your argument.

I think what needs to be understood by you in this situation is how the average person would look at it. You are, I believe, a single man, yes? Helle is a married woman. It's a sensitive situation, and even more so considering your comments about how their is a "hole inside". If forum interaction is not satisfying enough for you, you need to stop and think about why that is and what, exactly, you are trying to get out of "taking a meeting" with Helle.

 

[Helle]

No hard feelings if you don't think it's a good idea but at least you have the option

Well, i think you get the idea, that it's NOT a good idea, to meet/talk/mail in private. I know this from a very unpleasant experience, and I'll share it here :)

Way back, when this forum was just a little yahoo group, I was also a member. The topic being discussed on the forum at that time, was meeting your polar opposite. This guy from the forum wrote me everyday, seemingly just wanting to 'discuss' and 'share' things, and we even talked via MSN. He had this idea, that I might be HIS polar opposite.
Little by little he crossed the line without me even realizing it, I don't think he did it intentionally though.

He was an older man (or at least older than me!), and had read alot more material than me, and was very helpful... or so I thought. I was very emotional unstable, going through a divorce at the time.
Anyway, it got way out of hand. He crossed the line BIG time, and I withdraw from the Cass yahoo site completely, not telling anyway why. I was convinced, that I had somehow brought this on myself. I know now, that I didn't. I also know now, that keeping everything outhere in an open forum, is the only way, we can make sure, that no one is feeding off of anyone.

"Will this really be helping Helle?" I don't know for certain but that was the goal provided that she thought it was a good idea and if it made sense for each of us to continue to talk together.

2 people like us, still needing SO much Work, would not in the slightest way, be able to help eachother. On the contrary. I know you meant well though :)

On a sidenote, I'm still working on getting to those 100%, but with the helpful replies here, I'm going a bit easier on myself. Some days a really good. Some days are just embarrasing horrible.

 

[Thor]

Kniall, could you explain what you mean when you write that "...in this case it's quite obvious that the situation is ripe for trouble - for each of you and ultimately for the network as a whole." Is it this particular situation that is ripe for trouble or is it meeting up with other Forum members in general. What are the dangers to Helle, to me and to the network?

I don't ask to be troublesome but I want to make sure that I understand the reasoning behind your argument.

I think what needs to be understood by you in this situation is how the average person would look at it. You are, I believe, a single man, yes? Helle is a married woman. It's a sensitive situation, and even more so considering your comments about how their is a "hole inside". If forum interaction is not satisfying enough for you, you need to stop and think about why that is and what, exactly, you are trying to get out of "taking a meeting" with Helle.

Heimdallr,
Thanks for pointing this out. Even though I am a married man I find your point quite relevant. A big piece of introspection into what causes the hole/loneliness is definitely needed.

Edit: Even though I am married, I am about to be going through a divorce this coming summer. I didn't want to think that it had anything to do with the situation when I wrote my reply some days ago but not having everything out in the open seems like not being honest.

I am sure the unmet emotional need that I have in my relationship has stimulated the feeding behavior. It does hurt my pride to admit but if I am not honest here when I realize things, there is little room for learning.

 

[Thor]

Hi Thor

Kniall, could you explain what you mean when you write that "...in this case it's quite obvious that the situation is ripe for trouble - for each of you and ultimately for the network as a whole." Is it this particular situation that is ripe for trouble or is it meeting up with other Forum members in general. What are the dangers to Helle, to me and to the network?

Have you read the thread Forum Personal Messages and Predators?
To put it bluntly, one or other of you could be a pathological predator looking for there next victim (food source). The result of that would be feeding, manipulation and damage to one or other of you (and those around you - including the forum and all it stands for, as 'this is where you met').....given their are 3D (and 4D) forces who would love to see this place gone/fail, this would be a perfect way to attack/shut down the place.

....even if you are not a pathological predator, all humans are narcisitically wounded and have developed feeding dynamics, so unless you have reached the point where you can observe and control you're machine well enough in all situations, it is likely to develop into some sort of feeding dynamic.....and play out as above as if one or other was a pathological predator. A purely STS dynamic.

Heck at the very least it would distract both of you from the Work/forum! (always expect attack [distraction/feeding], and know the methods of the same)

There has been a history (some of it documented on the forum) of this sort of thing having happened before.

I am aware that this may be in contradiction to recommendations on the Forum,

Which makes one wonder why you wrote it at all?

Now may be a good time to look at what part of your self wanted this......was it lonely, or was it 'hungry'?



On the flip side, it seems that the more you work on yourself (and understand how your machine works, and how things in this world work) the less 'lonely' one becomes. That and improving diet and removing sources of inflammation/stress.

It probably worth pointing out that the connection between food (and how inflamed you're body is) and feeding dynamics between people/STS behaviours is really quite strong....whenever I am inflamed, my STS behaviours go into overdrive. fwiw

RedFox,

You raise some very good points. I consciously think that it was the "lonely" part more than the "hungry" part that was in operation but I understand that the "hungry" part is still there lurking in the shadows. I guess that it still has not fully sunk in that the STS/STO dynamics are operating at all levels all the time. I am on the USD and (to my knowledge) don't eat any inflammatory foods. However, as my back is chronically painful I often find it hard to tell. As a consequence I avoid all the big no-no's (rice, gluten, dairy, sugar, soy, additives, peppers, non-organic foods, etc) but I might be overlooking something.

I can't wait to get a better grip on my machine, though :)

 

[Thor]

If you've not yet read Unholy Hungers by Barbara Hort, I recommend it strongly. Your interest in Helle is for you, not Helle. You are 'hungry' - for attention, for energy, for interaction, for what you imagine that Helle can give you since she has already voiced her dissatisfaction with her own situation. See?

Feeding does not lead to growth. The book will help you understand the details of that - as will all the reading in the Narcissism section of the recommended reading.

One of the main reasons personal meetings are dissuaded is exactly this type of feeding - illusions, projections and a very, very slippery slope.

Anart, that just hit the nail on the head - thanks! You are very right, although I was not aware of it consciously. I have read Unholy Hungers but still, it just slipped under the radar. Wow.

I'll look further into the narcissism when I am able and hope to avoid the slippery slope. :)

 

[Thor]

No hard feelings if you don't think it's a good idea but at least you have the option

Well, i think you get the idea, that it's NOT a good idea, to meet/talk/mail in private. I know this from a very unpleasant experience, and I'll share it here :)

Way back, when this forum was just a little yahoo group, I was also a member. The topic being discussed on the forum at that time, was meeting your polar opposite. This guy from the forum wrote me everyday, seemingly just wanting to 'discuss' and 'share' things, and we even talked via MSN. He had this idea, that I might be HIS polar opposite.
Little by little he crossed the line without me even realizing it, I don't think he did it intentionally though.

He was an older man (or at least older than me!), and had read alot more material than me, and was very helpful... or so I thought. I was very emotional unstable, going through a divorce at the time.
Anyway, it got way out of hand. He crossed the line BIG time, and I withdraw from the Cass yahoo site completely, not telling anyway why. I was convinced, that I had somehow brought this on myself. I know now, that I didn't. I also know now, that keeping everything outhere in an open forum, is the only way, we can make sure, that no one is feeding off of anyone.

"Will this really be helping Helle?" I don't know for certain but that was the goal provided that she thought it was a good idea and if it made sense for each of us to continue to talk together.

2 people like us, still needing SO much Work, would not in the slightest way, be able to help eachother. On the contrary. I know you meant well though :)

On a sidenote, I'm still working on getting to those 100%, but with the helpful replies here, I'm going a bit easier on myself. Some days a really good. Some days are just embarrasing horrible.

Helle,

Thanks for sharing this on the Forum. That sounds pretty awful, to put it mildly. Please accept my apologies for suggesting to meet up.

That being said, I am glad that I did it. From the replies I have learned a very valuable lesson and I really appreciate the comments from everyone.

With a place like this, I have place where others can help me see things that I was blind to.

I appreciate that you understand that my intent was not of a devious nature :)

 

[Mr. Premise]

Yes, I'm glad you brought this up, Thor. Because the issues in this case are very clear, it will be a valuable thread for others to read for a long time.