Ice Age Preparation ?

[genero81]

I'm sorry for having made this statement calling your post "virtue signaling"...

It was way past bed time and I felt that you were insinuating that certain people, such as myself, were "fearful and callous".

Oh, I see why now. No, I was not thinking of you or anyone in this thread. I was thinking of scenarios where the worst comes out of people when chaos takes over, like looters and such during a disaster or a blackout. Mad Max and what not, as depicted in movies.

Thank you for clarifying. I feel better now.

 

[tczubernat]

. . . like a bunch of heavenly hippies?

Bwahahaha, "heavenly hippies!" This made me giggle. Thanks for that.

Here's some stuff to ponder regarding STO/STS:

If you had the chance to go back in time and kill Hitler/Lenin/Mao/Marx . . . would you? What if the deal was that you get the opportunity to do it, but you would go to "hell." What if you could, but your immortal soul would just cease to exist. Would you do it? I know I would. In the blink of an eye.

 

[mrtn]

Some way to measure your level of STO might be - instead of thinking about what you would or could do in a certain situation - to compare how YOU are doing in a situation (preferably a real situation you experienced) as to how you would see someone else in that situation. If person A asks for some money for a task that makes sense and person B has some spare money he could lend or gift and it makes sense overall, would that situation look differently if YOU were person B? Of course there are all kind of details, jumping in the river to save the child doesn't make sense for someone who can't swim, or someone might be just to fearful to accomplish the task. To acknowledge that you might not be able to actually live up to your ideas and expectations is already better than hiding that fact from yourself in illusion. And if you can't raise your impeccability for various reasons (we have our limitations after all), you can at least try to level down what you expect of others, and that can be equally difficult, to balance your relation to the world.

I think STO means how much you care about the overall situation or the bigger picture and that you relate yourself and your abilities to it in an balancing and stabilizing way. STS relates everything on the outside to itself and its needs.

 

[Laura]

I LOVE the work done by this site, and by people like Laura and so many others now. Seeing people learning philosophy and studying How To Think and See at such complex levels today on YouTube and other areas of the internet, the “Intellectual Dark Web” where it has not yet been realized that such behavior is the New Cool, (hopefully that self-awareness won’t set in for a while yet. It’s so pure and fun right now without the sheep factor jumping aboard with an adornment virtue-signaled version to get in with the hip kids).., well, it’s amazing to see and it fills my being with satisfaction and joy. Nobody’s perfect, but the fact that people are genuinely TRYING to be Good Guys is just so.., awesome! It makes me really happy and energized and proud to be part of the whole Life on Earth thing.

That's one of the most inspiring things I've read in awhile! And yeah, when you put it that way, it really is awesome!

 

[Tuatha de Danaan]

Bwahahaha, "heavenly hippies!" This made me giggle. Thanks for that.

Here's some stuff to ponder regarding STO/STS:

If you had the chance to go back in time and kill Hitler/Lenin/Mao/Marx . . . would you? What if the deal was that you get the opportunity to do it, but you would go to "hell." What if you could, but your immortal soul would just cease to exist. Would you do it? I know I would. In the blink of an eye.

Hi tczubernat..

I've not got a definitive answer here but sense that going back and destroying part of a time line would in and of itself create a void which would have to be filled. I understand , like it or not, those people were used to create situations for souls to learn. For the soul to learn something else would have appeared..

 

[tczubernat]

Hi tczubernat..

I've not got a definitive answer here but sense that going back and destroying part of a time line would in and of itself create a void which would have to be filled. I understand , like it or not, those people were used to create situations for souls to learn. For the soul to learn something else would have appeared..

Yeah, I get that. What I was attempting to illustrate (maybe a bit clumsily) is how do differentiate between someone who is STO/STS. Would that type of murder (one, or all of those extreme examples) make someone STS? How about getting that opportunity and not taking it because killing one person is wrong. What if you had the foreknowledge of the events coming prior to them occurring and did nothing because killing is wrong.

You can make the argument that everything is as it should be and that God is in control and who are we to question reality and I'll "burn in hell" for going against all of that, but I gotta tell ya, I don't know that I would hesitate. I also understand that this is all speculation and no one truly knows what they would do unless faced with that choice. This is meant to expound on the previous ice age related question. If it all goes to hell and we are in a situation where we have the power to end a life because it is threatening other lives, is it and acceptable act to do so. How does that reflect on a person's makeup (STO/STS)? Divide by Zero seemed to make the argument that it would be wrong, but I just don't see it as that simple. I think it is a spur of the moment/instinctive decision, but what does that decision say about the person?

 

[Tuatha de Danaan]

Yeah, I get that. What I was attempting to illustrate (maybe a bit clumsily) is how do differentiate between someone who is STO/STS. Would that type of murder (one, or all of those extreme examples) make someone STS? How about getting that opportunity and not taking it because killing one person is wrong. What if you had the foreknowledge of the events coming prior to them occurring and did nothing because killing is wrong.

You can make the argument that everything is as it should be and that God is in control and who are we to question reality and I'll "burn in hell" for going against all of that, but I gotta tell ya, I don't know that I would hesitate. I also understand that this is all speculation and no one truly knows what they would do unless faced with that choice. This is meant to expound on the previous ice age related question. If it all goes to hell and we are in a situation where we have the power to end a life because it is threatening other lives, is it and acceptable act to do so. How does that reflect on a person's makeup (STO/STS)? Divide by Zero seemed to make the argument that it would be wrong, but I just don't see it as that simple. I think it is a spur of the moment/instinctive decision, but what does that decision say about the person?

Yes, I can see what you are saying but all our questions seem to be couched in so many "what if's". I think Joe's answer seems the most grounded. Be true to your nature. That is something we can work on i.e. finding what our true nature is. Can we do that at least. It's a tall order.

 

[Divide by Zero]

Yes, I can see what you are saying but all our questions seem to be couched in so many "what if's". I think Joe's answer seems the most grounded. Be true to your nature. That is something we can work on i.e. finding what our true nature is. Can we do that at least. It's a tall order.

True to nature? I'd gladly try to stop Hitler etc, even if it somehow stops people from learning lessons.

Anyway, who says the lessons had to be learned that way? What we know about these "karmic lessons" is not exactly clear. They actually sound quite limited and linear. What is non-linear? Exactly what Joe said- to jump in to save a kid on instinct/automatic reaction. My point to him was that a lot of things are not as STO as we think. There's little to no free will involved when the "low road" brain wiring takes over and you decide to save a child drowning (despite the huge risk), or go back in time to stop a horrible event.

The work itself dictates that the worst thing to do is lying to oneself, correct? I can't lie that I would do things out of anger. According to the ideals of STO, that's pure STS. Well, at least I don't lie to myself about it. Or maybe some people don't feel that anger for injustice? If so, I envy them, because feeling angry about the BS going on in the world is not fun. It sucks!

Well, to think that a police officer or you or me jumped into a river to save a child because we were STO is the same hero worship that runs all over religious and war heroes. This is the exact thing that angered me, this childish idealistic view that only good would do it. Maybe I'd kill Hitler because I knew he was a part of the system that lead to the current semi-fascism around the world. Maybe someone else does it because their family died in the holocaust. Any one of us really STO? No.

 

[Ca.]

Well, to think that a police officer or you or me jumped into a river to save a child because we were STO is the same hero worship that runs all over religious and war heroes.

Police and fire are not obligated (to take chances as jumping into a river), by contract. It has to do with a quick and difficult assessment for the life of the victim, and as well as his own. And as well as his crew, or partners safety.

There are just time's, when some, (if not many), go above and beyond the call of duty. It is a very challenging, and difficult position to have to navigate.

FWIW!

 

[Tuatha de Danaan]

True to nature? I'd gladly try to stop Hitler etc, even if it somehow stops people from learning lessons.

Anyway, who says the lessons had to be learned that way? What we know about these "karmic lessons" is not exactly clear. They actually sound quite limited and linear. What is non-linear? Exactly what Joe said- to jump in to save a kid on instinct/automatic reaction. My point to him was that a lot of things are not as STO as we think. There's little to no free will involved when the "low road" brain wiring takes over and you decide to save a child drowning (despite the huge risk), or go back in time to stop a horrible event.

The work itself dictates that the worst thing to do is lying to oneself, correct? I can't lie that I would do things out of anger. According to the ideals of STO, that's pure STS. Well, at least I don't lie to myself about it. Or maybe some people don't feel that anger for injustice? If so, I envy them, because feeling angry about the BS going on in the world is not fun. It sucks!

Well, to think that a police officer or you or me jumped into a river to save a child because we were STO is the same hero worship that runs all over religious and war heroes. This is the exact thing that angered me, this childish idealistic view that only good would do it. Maybe I'd kill Hitler because I knew he was a part of the system that lead to the current semi-fascism around the world. Maybe someone else does it because their family died in the holocaust. Any one of us really STO? No.

Hello DBZ

You say .........even if it stops someone from learning lessons. Sounds very much like RIGHTOUS ANGER but more I feel as indignation & rage. Pure gut reaction. I really apologise if this is not the case, I'm just stating what I get from reading the above.

It sucks ,yes, and it scares the life out of me but living in the West I have never been tested unlike some on this forum. I feel I may be tested in the coming future and I quoted Joe's comment as something I could work on that would, maybe, hopefully help me and temper my reactions.

Sorry if I created noise.

 

[Joe]

True to nature? I'd gladly try to stop Hitler etc, even if it somehow stops people from learning lessons.

Anyway, who says the lessons had to be learned that way? What we know about these "karmic lessons" is not exactly clear. They actually sound quite limited and linear. What is non-linear? Exactly what Joe said- to jump in to save a kid on instinct/automatic reaction. My point to him was that a lot of things are not as STO as we think. There's little to no free will involved when the "low road" brain wiring takes over and you decide to save a child drowning (despite the huge risk), or go back in time to stop a horrible event.

The work itself dictates that the worst thing to do is lying to oneself, correct? I can't lie that I would do things out of anger. According to the ideals of STO, that's pure STS. Well, at least I don't lie to myself about it. Or maybe some people don't feel that anger for injustice? If so, I envy them, because feeling angry about the BS going on in the world is not fun. It sucks!

Well, to think that a police officer or you or me jumped into a river to save a child because we were STO is the same hero worship that runs all over religious and war heroes. This is the exact thing that angered me, this childish idealistic view that only good would do it. Maybe I'd kill Hitler because I knew he was a part of the system that lead to the current semi-fascism around the world. Maybe someone else does it because their family died in the holocaust. Any one of us really STO? No.

You are not making any sense. You are obviously talking around an issue without addressing it directly, and nitpicking on things that are not really the issue. For the record, no one said saving someone on instinct was "STO", but that there can be instances in life where someone does something that is not consciously done in expectation of reward. Now, would you like to tell us what is really bothering you? Because this 'point scoring' game you are playing is not helping anyone.

 

[Joe]

Sorry if I created noise.

There's no need for you to apologize, and you are correct it seems, although DBZ's anger is not "righteous", it is simply anger and frustration because life is not the way he wants it to be. Pursuing and indulging that perspective is a dead end street, but DBZ is insisting on learning that the hard way, or so it seems.

 

[yumi]

You are not making any sense. You are obviously talking around an issue without addressing it directly, and nitpicking on things that are not really the issue. For the record, no one said saving someone on instinct was "STO", but that there can be instances in life where someone does something that is not consciously done in expectation of reward. Now, would you like to tell us what is really bothering you? Because this 'point scoring' game you are playing is not helping anyone.

Well, it helps me....
to perceive instinct as a STS tendency in an STS environment.
and then fighting, that can be learned

 

[Joe]

Well, it helps me....
to perceive instinct as a STS tendency in an STS environment.

Instinct is not an "STS tendency".

 

[Beau]

Even if the warrior instinct exists by itself, it nevertheless clings to rational motives (Bergson, Deux sources, 1932, p. 307)

Yumi, please be considerate to others when posting. Just posting a quote from someone else in this context is not adding to the discussion. It is noise. You have been posting a lot of one-liners and random thoughts without context. We consider that to be noise, and if you continue to post noise you will be banned.