Ideas for moving

neema

Jedi Council Member
FOTCM Member
I wanted to seek the group's advice regarding a serious subject that has been on my mind for a very long time.

It's on the subject of moving. Both my spouse and I have wanted to move from where we currently live, Vancouver, BC Canada.
And yes, I am fully aware of the "who you are, that's important, not where you are" concept.

True that no matter where you go it's the lessons that are important. but to me we can all choose how those lessons are presented.

So why do we want to move?

Well, I can't fully talk for my spouse, but I think the major factor for us is the cost of living.

Also, people in Vancouver are cold both in their relations to one another and to their current world. There is elitism here, as the city is very expensive to live in, so decent and hard working people are filtered out financially.

The food here is awful, as we in British Columbia have had the "honor" of being one of the first test communities among north America, to receive massive genetically modified foods and hydroponically created foods. Ya sure, there are organic markets, but the prices are unreasonably high. For example, a dozen truly, normal organic free-range eggs here will cost you about $8-9. Another example is regular organic dirt-grown bell peppers cost $ 4-5 each. And as a hobby farmer that just infuriates me, as I know the actual cost of growing the stuff.

We have some of the highest taxes anywhere in North America, but some of the worst services. Most Americans think in Canada we have good health care, well I can assure you that it may have been in the past but it's no longer true. Average emergency wait time in most hospitals is about 1-3 hours. The public transportation has become a joke, and public education is absolutely crumbling. One of the reasons most local people here hate the Olympics is because its a local fact that so much taxpayer funding went into the thing, and that most of it was diverted from education and infrastructure. Schools are cancelling programs left, right and center, and parents accept them like obedient sheep.

And this is what irks me the most. MOST PEOPLE UNDERSTAND FULLY WHAT'S GOING ON but want absolutely nothing to do with the solution. "whatever", is the usual response. It's not like they are rejecting the ideas as conspiracy, but actually understand and tolerate them. Slowly as the heat increases they keep adjusting to except the new status.

Yes okay I will admit that perhaps I am describing life in north America as a whole, and that's why I want to move. I know the grass is not greener on the other side, but no one can deny the many shades of grass. I think after 20 years living here, and exactly because of "who I am and what I see", I need to move.

The other reason I really want to move away from Vancouver is because of my financial dependency of my family's business (my father). And I want to get away from my parent's micro-management of my life. We've also tried moving to another city, which did not work out. The people were worst, because they were very conservative and close-minded, and might I say... downright racist. I can go on and on about the reasons why, but that's beside the point.

So I want to share possible locations, and would like some objective advice on them.

Barcelona Spain. Very beautiful location, and overall very nice and kind people. I know in general that its difficult to immigrate to Europe, but I don't think it's too difficult if you have some finances and are able to open up a business.

Perhaps a member that is familiar with the area, could shed some light on the cost of living there, and the general quality of food.

My second location choice is Margarita Island in Venezuela. Venezuela has a long and rich history of fighting imperialism and currently the people there under Hugo Chavez seem to be really practicing participatory democracy. I know the cost of living there is very low and moving there is not that difficult.

The last option is actually in the same area, but a totally different country. I speak of Trinidad and Tobago. I don't know much about there except that they are very modern, speak English, and have lots of sun.

Of course, with help, networking, and the approval of the group we want to eventually start a branch of the Fellowship in any place we go. At first maybe start some business that will lead naturally to expanding into a Fellowship branch. Businesses like, book store, internet cafe, alternative healing, and that sort.

As we have already visited Barcelona, and have some idea of what life there would be like, we are in the planning of taking a trip next month to Venezuela and Trinidad. To see firsthand if living at either place would be realistic, and also get a general feel of the areas.

In the end, more than anything I am really tired of the rain and the cold. And from what the C's said in the latest transcript about the airline industry, if there is a place I would like to be "stuck at", I want it to be somewhere that at least I'll be able to grow my own food.

Without the sun that is difficult if not impossible.

Thanks for reading, and I appreciate any advice.
 
Hey neema

I consider Vancouver to be a beautiful city. I once been there.

With google maps, you know streetview. Been there for hours :P


Anyhow if cost of living are difficult to maintain and healthy food is also hard to get by with than I think it would be really justified to search for another place.


[quote author=neema]And this is what irks me the most. MOST PEOPLE UNDERSTAND FULLY WHAT'S GOING ON but want absolutely nothing to do with the solution. "whatever", is the usual response. It's not like they are rejecting the ideas as conspiracy, but actually understand and tolerate them. Slowly as the heat increases they keep adjusting to except the new status.[/quote]

I know people who at first ridiculed the whole idea of conspiracy's and later on admitted that the whole planet is heading towards total control. There response was like: ‘You can’t stop it, it’s just the way things are’ Better deal with real life.
I mean what a way into ignoring reality.

But I think we all been there. I certainly was at a moment. I searched all kinds of material which could give me some doubs about those so called conspiracies. But I couldn’t ignore certain hard facts.

I think it’s somewhat a human response. It may be a step forward. Of-course sadly there are always people like you said who keep adjusting there mindset into ignoring reality around them.

But at least conspiracys aren’t taboo that more. It’s ok to talk about them. Well you hadn’t had that 3 years ago. At least this is my experience.

And this is what irks me the most.

Next to that I don’t think this should be a great part of the motivation to leave a certain area. Only when it can be dangerous to be around such people.
Feeling annoyed at people who just ignore there reality is I think your problem. It’s there choose.


[quote author=Neema]My second location choice is Margarita Island in Venezuela.[/quote]

Venezuela it seems is a real target for war by certain interest. It's hard to see how this situation will eventually turn out. But I think it's something to keep in mind.


[quote author=Neema]So I want to share possible locations, and would like some objective advice on them.

Barcelona Spain. Very beautiful location, and overall very nice and kind people. I know in general that its difficult to immigrate to Europe, but I don't think it's too difficult if you have some finances and are able to open up a business.[/quote]

At mine understanding living cost in Spain aren't expensive. Ground is cheap also you may get a huge garden of your own. Just if you decide to go where English isn't a native language. I should try to learn there language first somewhat before going there.


[quote author=Neema]if there is a place I would like to be "stuck at", I want it to be somewhere that at least I'll be able to grow my own food. [/quote]

I really find the idea of harvesting your own food awesome. You really are undependment and have a lot of power of your own food. It seems to me to be fun also. Anyway it's indeed great to search a place which can provide that.
 
Hi neema. Fwiw and based on your post, I can't see any reason not to move. It sounds like the biggest part of your dissatisfaction with your environment has to do with stuff not related to possible programs running, i.e., the physical environment.

My wife and I will probably have to move soon, as well, since I'm now out of school and will have to go where there is a suitable environment for work and growth, unless I manage to make something work where I'm at now.

As far as where you want to move, I have no comment because I haven't done any research on those areas. For myself, I once considered those few states that were financially stable with relatively low health care costs, but with the threat of a possible global warming ice-age creeping down into the northern U.S., I don't know.

I thought of Ibiza (Spain) or perhaps, Isle of Man (outside U.K.), as those areas seem to possess some relative political autonomy, but then there's the growing of food issue you mentioned.

Long story short, I simply don't know. I don't yet have enough data to make a decision.

Good luck with whatever you guys decide. :)
 
This thought has likely crossed many of our minds recently, neema.

Such a hard choice/decision......with the C's stating 'It's not where you are.....' but sometimes we just KNOW it's time to move on.

There is probably no perfect place, but it's apparent, to some anyway, that certain areas are better suited towards growth than others.

I would have to echo Buddy's thoughts on this. Choose carefully and then, time being right, just do it.

Don't know much about Margarita/Trinidad, but friends who have spent time there were pretty impressed. A good idea, imo, is to learn the history of your choice areas. For those mentioned, it's a little funky and will most defintely 'come with the turf'. Know what you're getting into.

FWIW, and as mentioned in other threads, I made a big move south a few years ago and still consider it one of the best moves I've ever made. That being said, there are defintely sacrifices as well.
 
Hi Neema,

I just curious, are you both Canadian? If you move how long do you plan to move? Normally one can't stay in the country for very long unless they can obtain a working visa or some type of extended visa. What kind of work do you both do? Perhaps finding about what type of jobs are available and getting sponsored for the country that interests you might help. Not sure what your personal details are (and no need to get too personal on a public forum) but it's difficult to say what is best one way or another. Just be sure to know what the immigration laws are for were you plan to go.

You mentioned you tried moving to another city. Where did you move? I used to live in Brampton (suburb of Toronto) and found it not too expensive.
 
One of the beacons i used in this very question was how felt where i was, and what was witnessing and how it made me feel. I also listened to something in myself and felt something in the stomach when i dwelled on the subject and what were options that I had at that time that would work in may favor . But it, as many things in life had its price and came a coast, sort of give and take, nothings free and sometimes certain efforts require compromise. Then one has to wrap around oneself around a thought and try it on like a coat before one buys into it. .Their would be many questions that i would ask myself and think about the cause and effect of where i felt i wanted to go, why and what was really within my grasp, like staying real with an idea was essential . No wishfull thinking but reality. The "Amazing" thing was that once i had made up my mind and started the process that it seemmed to take life of it own. With research, travel, to an area I thought I that would serve the problem and provide the solution. I would also at times consult the transcript's believe it or not for clues with the search engine that came with that it (bought many moons ago which) which was an invaluable tool to say the least and thank those responsible for collection and dissemination of what would become a most treasured resource . I wish you luck and in your endeavors as any and all that thinking of this option is at this times a major change in hopefully for the better . And little common scene goes a long ways and has its divedens ! ;)
 
France...........south ? Near the border? of Spain ?.............. Bell peppers are about 1.30 euro apeace............a flat of commercial eggs 2 dozen about 2.19 euro .........better quality free range eggs and better feed a bit more per dozen ....locals produce farmed close is reasonable and fresh with farmers markets in just about every part of any village thoughout the country......just some input, i realise that food is not the prime reason for your consideration to the thoughts of relocating ! just a few answer's to some easy questions ! :boat: Also the quality of life here is very, very, friendly with everyone always saying hello or bonjur ! great place to raise a family ! crime almost ZERO at least at this time and moment !
 
Hi Neema,

Moving to another country is a really big decision... It is in a way, facing the unknown... ;) which makes it FUN!!

I do not have any ideas about the countries that you've mentioned. But, I do recommend you to visit this web.page:- www.mm2h.gov.my

Maybe you could have more ideas before making the move.

Good luck, all the best and have fun (fgs)!!
 
Thanks for the comments guys.

Interesting points.

I do have to mention that both my spouse and I are x-immigrants. We are both from Iran, and we both lived in Tehran during the Iran Iraq war of the 80s. I remember life quite well under the conditions of war.

As we all know, all the current wars seem to be about resources, positioning, and distraction factor from environment challenges. What I see is the glacial rebound that the C's talked about is hitting now and will hit hard this year. I think it might be so bad that this is what will be the real reason for the attempt at the stoppage of international travel.

You know to try and limit migration due to weather. At that point maybe people will not tolerate the situation any longer and there might be real unrest in the effected regions.

Of course these are just theories, so I could be way off.

One thing is for sure, Trinidad and Tobago is out as an option already. After some research, I found out that it is unbelievably crime infested, and the government is extremely corrupt and turning more fascist by the day. Also, the fact that their modern industry is destroying their environment and polluting their waters.

Well, for now the search continues!
 
Hi Nema,


I also have wanted to leave N America since '06 with an urgency. Although southern France was my first choice it seems it will become increasingly hard to immigrate to any country due to economic crisis. I have lived and worked with Trinnys since '05 and consider them to be brothers, I don't think moving there is a option due to crime, corruption, abduction and violence. Venezuela has always been a consideration of mine and I hope to visit soon to see for myself. The thought of being in a targeted zone of the USA compared to actually inside the USA is a thought but from what I understand of Nazi Germany, I think I rather take my chances outside of the harlot than within..... But I don't know how to get my son out as there is a custody issue with his mother and I can't see leaving him here..

Coming from the "deep south" USA I remember the times when we grew most of our food in the the back yard and gave freely to friends and neighbors the extra bounty of our harvests.... Actually 'til '98 most of what I ate and my family, I actually grew myself and I long for the days of return to that..


But that said I've been to central Philippines (Visayas) and love the people there although there is turmoil and an island nation(tsunamis) it always remains an option... but research the immigration laws of any nation you consider
 
Dear Neema:

How about the happiest nation on earth?

_http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/editorials/stories/2010/01/09/kris08.ART_ART_01-09-10_A10_S3G7V8I.html said:
Educational focus pleases Costa Ricans
Saturday, January 9, 2010 2:55 AM
By Nicholas D. Kristof

Hmmm. You think it's a coincidence? Costa Rica is one of the very few countries to have abolished its army, and it's also arguably the happiest nation on Earth.

There are several ways of measuring happiness in countries, all inexact, but this pearl of Central America does stunningly well by whatever system is used. For example, the World Database of Happiness, compiled by a Dutch sociologist on the basis of answers to surveys by Gallup and others, lists Costa Rica in the top spot out of 148 nations.

That's because Costa Ricans, asked to rate their own happiness on a 10-point scale, average 8.5. Denmark is next at 8.3, the United States ranks 20th at 7.4 and Togo and Tanzania bring up the caboose at 2.6.

Scholars also calculate happiness by determining "happy life years." This figure results from merging average self-reported happiness, as above, with life expectancy. Using this system, Costa Rica again easily tops the list. The United States is 19th, and Zimbabwe comes in last.

A third approach is the "happy planet index," devised by the New Economics Foundation, a liberal think tank. This combines happiness and longevity but adjusts for environmental impact -- such as the carbon that countries spew.

Here again, Costa Rica wins the day, for achieving contentment and longevity in an environmentally sustainable way. The Dominican Republic ranks second, the United States 114th (because of its huge ecological footprint) and Zimbabwe is last.

Maybe Costa Rican contentment has something to do with the chance to explore dazzling beaches on both sides of the country, when one isn't admiring the sloths in the jungle (sloths truly are slothful, I discovered; they are the tortoises of the trees). Costa Rica has done an unusually good job preserving nature, and it's surely easier to be happy while basking in sunshine and greenery.

What sets Costa Rica apart is its remarkable decision in 1949 to dissolve its armed forces and invest instead in education. Increased schooling created a more stable society, less prone to the conflicts that have raged elsewhere in Central America. Education also boosted the economy, enabling the country to become a major exporter of computer chips and improving English-language skills so as to attract American ecotourists.

I'm not anti-military. But the evidence is strong that education is often a far better investment than artillery.

In Costa Rica, rising education levels also fostered impressive gender equality so that it ranks higher than the United States in the World Economic Forum gender-gap index. This allows Costa Rica to use its female population more productively than is true in most of the region. Likewise, education nurtured improvements in health care, with life expectancy now about the same as in the United States.

Rising education levels also led the country to preserve its lush environment as an economic asset. Costa Rica is an ecological pioneer, introducing a carbon tax in 1997. The Environmental Performance Index, a collaboration of Yale and Columbia universities, ranks Costa Rica at No. 5 in the world, the best outside Europe.

This emphasis on the environment hasn't sabotaged Costa Rica's economy but has bolstered it. Indeed, Costa Rica is one of the few countries that is seeing migration from the United States: Yankees are moving here to enjoy a low-cost retirement. My hunch is that in 25 years, we'll see large numbers of English-speaking retirement communities along the Costa Rican coast.

Latin countries generally do well in happiness surveys. Mexico and Colombia rank higher than the United States in self-reported contentment. Perhaps one reason is a cultural emphasis on family and friends, on social capital over financial capital -- but then again, Mexicans sometimes slip into the United States, presumably in pursuit of both happiness and assets.

Cross-country comparisons of happiness are controversial and uncertain. But what does seem quite clear is that Costa Rica's national decision to invest in education rather than arms has paid rich dividends. Maybe the lesson for the United States is that we should devote fewer resources to shoring up foreign armies and more to bolstering schools both at home and abroad.

In the meantime, I encourage you to conduct your own research in Costa Rica. It'll make you happy.

Nicholas D. Kristof writes for The New York Times.
 
Hmm... Moving... I guess it is on everybody's mind in one way or the other! ;)

I have been on a constant "alert" for moving to... somewhere for some time now.

I live in Greece, and although our country faces a lot of financial problems, we are as we say for ourselves a "poor country of wealthy citizens".
Where i live right now, there is quite good quality of life. There is always time to walk or have a coffee break. There is wonderful nature all around
with mountains, rivers, waterfalls, ridges, and the beautiful Ionian Sea (very nice waters and beaches) is a just 30 minute drive away. There is good quality food, and a
lot of available land for purchase close to various semi-deserted villages for very little money (like 1000 euros per acre!). Greece has a sweat and moderate climate, nature
is very "friendly" and generous, with very few dangerous or poisonous plants and animals. Greece is making a lot of money through tourism, and thus most people are very
used to western foreigners.

Why am i saying all of these? It is not so much to propose my country for Neema -which is not a bad case at all, quite the contrary- but to declare that even if i live here,
i do not really care about all these nice things as i think they are of secondary importance. What matters to me most is being and sharing life with like-minded people.
I am getting tired of applying strategic enclosure to the extend i do now. If you play such a "role" for most of the day, as times goes by, the lines begin to blur and you
are really close to becoming this role if you forget yourself for a moment. "A house does not make a home" as a song by U2 says, and our true home is where our true family is,
and that kind of family rarely matches with our given blood relatives.

Right now i also happen to be single, but i would definitely leave this otherwise lovely place i live at the time, just to follow my "other half", or my "family" to the end of the world. I would leave this
place for joining a community of people like all of you, fellow forum members. I would quit my work, travel , and even sell some property i own for funding such a new start. So i wonder,
how long before we start such a community? How long before we do not have to hide ourselves or pretend we are someone else just to make it through the wolves? How long before we gather
our powers, knowledge, skills, talents and souls to create the critical mass for escaping the vicious circle life is becoming when living dispersed and cut off? Maybe it is too early for that,
or maybe it will never happen. Or maybe i am just experiencing a moment of naive ranting... Who knows? It is just that life should so much more interesting, challenging and joyful than my own
life is at the moment. And for that to happen, the greatest need is for conscious people, sharing and companionship... Or maybe i should better use The Swamp section of the forum to "let off some steam".
Anyway, thank you all for putting up with my thoughts here!

Take care,
:)
 
My second location choice is Margarita Island in Venezuela. Venezuela has a long and rich history of fighting imperialism and currently the people there under Hugo Chavez seem to be really practicing participatory democracy. I know the cost of living there is very low and moving there is not that difficult

Hi neeme, I'm from Venezuela and I don´t recommend to anybody come to the country at least they have some familiar support or friends who can take you from a place to another.

As you said that you are considering this country to living, please read this:

Negative things:

The major cities and rural places are very dangerous because the delinquency and violence, unless you know the "safe" areas which are very little. . The crime is so High that people normally tries to don´t get out at nights, you'll see all the houses latticed everywhere. People fears of police because they are corrupted/ponerized. Margarita has a medium level of crime. I have been robbed a few times in Caracas, fortunately, but I have friends and acquaintances who have been express kidnapped and victims of violence even deadly (sorry If I am crude but is the truth). All is very expensive for people living here and inflation is high (35 %).

Remember things are expensive or not depending on what you earn. For average people living here is expensive, but if you earn in dollars all is going to seem you a gift. Public Health system is dismal despite the government's preventive program, the emergency in hospitals have few doctors because most of them left the country (to spain mainly) You will have to pay a secure or private clinical service directly if some serious happens (like USA). Corruption is wherever, shameless and perturbing.

We don't have free access to buy dollars, it's controlled since four years, and if you want to buy some books outside or travel you will be very limited or you have to buy dollars in the black market at a very high price ( ways of control disguised " for the good of people?"), I appeal to someone who goes to USA to bring me some things. This is really bad for me.

Positive things:

Weather, is always warm, tropical with few changes. We have the fuel more cheap in the world 0.5 $ to fill your tank! Services and transport are cheap . People are very friendly and multicultural. Nature is beautiful. You could have advantages because Iranian are welcome here. For sure less psychopaty than America. Many things are subsidized by the government.

This is like USA, if you have money you won't have much problem.

In Regard to "Hugo Chavez seem to be really practicing participatory democracy" Well, I will tell you that is only a name, a theory " participatory democracy" which is not warranty that the problems of people are being solved or that quality of life are going to be improved (see below), IS the will that those in the power have to solve the problems and improve things what account and there is much blah blah bla in this country and few is made.

I only can tell you from my experience but it could be different for another.

For example the community council (part of the participatory democracy) of my sector (low-medium class) doesn't receive money to fix the street (since 3-4 years) because the sector doesn't support chavez in the last elections and the worst: there is a lot of money.
The normal way to be heard for the goverment is to do a protest, in such case you could be labelled as counter revolutionary if what you are asking perturbs the interest of any politician or simply is ignored if is a opposition politician who is in charge.

I had thought seriously to leave the country (no wonder!) but I have investigated a lot and there are similar problems in each country of the world, maybe you move escaping from crime but you are robbed then in the most safe place of the earth. Also the C's point of view about this matter impulse me to not left my country. I remember that I was in a point when I don't bear it more, but I remember to myself that I am here for a reason, "open your eyes I try to learn", I said to myself.

It is paradoxical that I have learned and seen the worst of human nature and how are moved the strings of power and the two faces of the politicians in a faction of a government that just seems to be the most human in the outside. I saw it with my own eyes and that is something that has made me much less vulnerable to psychopaths around me, I guess.

Sorry if I tear down your illusions regard this country, but if you want to come anyway take precautions.


I hope this help you
 
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