Important Notes on Psychopathy

Re: Psychopaths in Treatment?

Robert Hare also wrote on treatment regarding psychopaths; basically they can't be treated, and often times treatment teaches them how to be better manipulators since it gives them extra knowledge about the human mind.
 
Re: Psychopaths in Treatment?

Hey Potamus,

If you haven't read it yet, "The Mask of Sanity" by Hervey Cleckey is a good one to read in terms of real life situations on how psychopaths can sometimes get around or out of treatment. The free pdf is on the page I linked above. "The Sociopath Next Door" by Martha Stout also has very helpful real life illustrations of psychopaths in action.
 
Re: Psychopaths in Treatment?

Let me say - Thank you! The insights of ponerology now turn to wisdom from Augusta Georgia :D (Cleckley's home) Looking forward to the read!
 
Re: Psychopaths in Treatment?

Potamus said:
I had the unexpected pleasure of having a nice conversation with a nurse at a psychiatric clinic who works at a major hospital last evening, and connected one very big dot (for me at least, probably covered here a lot already) regarding psychopathy. I found her to be quite well informed regarding various dis-orders, and so I asked her how many psychopaths she was seeing. She laughed, and said “None, they are all too busy out there proving how great they are to everyone.”

I was taken aback by this, but the more I thought about it, the more I realized just how correct she may be. She said that sometimes psychopaths can act out enough to hurt someone and get caught, or she said, sometimes they have other problems that get them in, but that getting a diagnosis or getting one into treatment is very difficult. Does this jive with other folk’s ideas? Thanks!
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I've worked with the mentally ill and now that you mention it, with the exception of a couple child molesters I worked with, the vast majority of my former patients or clients had any prominent psychopathic traits (or at least none that I can remember now that I look back). There were certainly a lot of wounded people. But it seems to me that the primary issue that brings people into treatment is some emotional trauma or trigger which disrupts thier functioning in some way. Psychopaths have no emotions and don't suffer from the hurtful actions of themselves or others. Or perhaps a psychopath or two slipped by and I just wasn't aware enough or didn't have a close enough relationship with the person to pick up on it. Some dementia patients I worked with were so unpleasant at times it made you wonder what they were like when they were young and kickin' around, that's for sure!
 
Re: Psychopaths in Treatment?

I have become convinced, as of late, that my husband is a narcissistic psychopath. One thing that sticks out after reading this thread is his view of psychiatry. He has said many times in the past how it would be a waste of time to go see a therapist or psychiatrist because he would immediately show them the error of their ways, prove them wrong, or generally show that he is somehow more correct in his thinking than them :nuts:. This is pretty much on par for his relationships with everybody. I'm finally seeing how much I let him do this with me, how he has belittled, badgered, shamed, and promised me into submission. :headbash:
 
Re: Psychopaths in Treatment?

Seraphina said:
I have become convinced, as of late, that my husband is a narcissistic psychopath. One thing that sticks out after reading this thread is his view of psychiatry. He has said many times in the past how it would be a waste of time to go see a therapist or psychiatrist because he would immediately show them the error of their ways, prove them wrong, or generally show that he is somehow more correct in his thinking than them :nuts:. This is pretty much on par for his relationships with everybody. I'm finally seeing how much I let him do this with me, how he has belittled, badgered, shamed, and promised me into submission. :headbash:
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I'm sorry to hear that, Seraphina, and it sounds like you may have a lot of observation and thinking to do about this situation (and try to take comfort in the fact that you are not alone!). It is extremely helpful to read the "Big 5" books on narcissism, if you haven't started already:

Myth of Sanity - Martha Stout
The Narcissistic Family - Stephanie Donaldson-Pressman and Robert M. Pressman
Trapped in the Mirror - Elan Golomb
Unholy Hungers - Barbara E. Hort
In Sheep's Clothing - George K. Simon

If you can, I'd find those and get going on them so that you can begin to understand narcissism better, which will in turn empower you in assessing your relationship and where you go from here :)
 
Re: Psychopaths in Treatment?

Also, Seraphina, to add to Shijing's list of very important books to read about psychopathy, I would like to add Women Who Love Psychopaths by Sandra Brown, and Women Who Love Too Much by Robin Norwood. These two books will help you to see why women (and men) pick these types of people and what to do about it.
 
Re: Psychopaths in Treatment?

Thanks for the reading suggestions, Shijing and Nienna. I have been having growing suspicions over the years, a couple weeks ago he did something that really made me scratch my head so I decided to look up "psycopath", and sure enough he fit the bill. Then I come to this forum, for wholly different reasons, and stumble upon discussions here that really sink it in. His inflated self worth, nothing I do ever measures up unless he's putting on a show for friends, lies about the most ridiculous things, fabricates history to make me look crazy. It's really frustrating.
 
Re: Psychopaths in Treatment?

Seraphina said:
Thanks for the reading suggestions, Shijing and Nienna. I have been having growing suspicions over the years, a couple weeks ago he did something that really made me scratch my head so I decided to look up "psycopath", and sure enough he fit the bill. Then I come to this forum, for wholly different reasons, and stumble upon discussions here that really sink it in. His inflated self worth, nothing I do ever measures up unless he's putting on a show for friends, lies about the most ridiculous things, fabricates history to make me look crazy. It's really frustrating.
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fwiw it may be worth looking up Strategic Enclosure too....I cannot say for sure, but its probably best not to leave any of those books around where he may read them. If he is a psychopath, he may well twist them into weapons against you.
 
Re: Psychopaths in Treatment?

RedFox said:
Seraphina said:
Thanks for the reading suggestions, Shijing and Nienna. I have been having growing suspicions over the years, a couple weeks ago he did something that really made me scratch my head so I decided to look up "psycopath", and sure enough he fit the bill. Then I come to this forum, for wholly different reasons, and stumble upon discussions here that really sink it in. His inflated self worth, nothing I do ever measures up unless he's putting on a show for friends, lies about the most ridiculous things, fabricates history to make me look crazy. It's really frustrating.
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fwiw it may be worth looking up Strategic Enclosure too....I cannot say for sure, but its probably best not to leave any of those books around where he may read them. If he is a psychopath, he may well twist them into weapons against you.
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That is a very good point, everything becomes a weapon as it is. There is also the issue of having to answer to him for every penny spent, which is why I'm so thankful for the internet.
 
Re: Psychopaths in Treatment?

Pretty much. Or they are in positions of power making laws to protect their own kind, misdirecting research, getting all their fellows into positions where what they like to do - killing, maiming, stealing - is legal. That about sums it up.
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I've often wondered that if psychopaths protect their own kind, what happens when they have to square off with each other? I would think that sooner or later this would happen. The desire to have something is shared with one of their own kind.
 
A nice, rich article on a real psychopath, reads like a chapter out of Cleckley

This is new. _http://thephoenix.com/Boston/news/101066-it-takes-an-identity-thief/

As you read it, see how she fits the psychopathic profile so well as described in Cleckley's The Mask of Sanity, which we now suspect to be that of a failed psychopath. Getting discovered and caught again and again yet somehow allowed to continue her mayhem. A nice study case, I think, for those who have not read that book. Note the suggestion that investigators admired her resourcefulness and, because she isn't known to be violent, acquaintances get a kick out her cleverness. This must help explain how she has been able to pull scam after scam in one area for so long.
 
Re: A nice, rich article on a real psychopath, reads like a chapter out of Cleckley

Very interesting, PopHistorian. Thanks for sharing. It's a pity that the article doesn't mention the words 'psychopath' or 'sociopath', not even once, even though that's exactly what she is. Because of ignorance, readers will just continue scratching their heads at how it can be possible that such a talented person can do such things. :rolleyes:
 
Re: A nice, rich article on a real psychopath, reads like a chapter out of Cleckley

PopHistorian said:
This is new. _http://thephoenix.com/Boston/news/101066-it-takes-an-identity-thief/

As you read it, see how she fits the psychopathic profile so well as described in Cleckley's The Mask of Sanity, which we now suspect to be that of a failed psychopath. Getting discovered and caught again and again yet somehow allowed to continue her mayhem. A nice study case, I think, for those who have not read that book. Note the suggestion that investigators admired her resourcefulness and, because she isn't known to be violent, acquaintances get a kick out her cleverness. This must help explain how she has been able to pull scam after scam in one area for so long.
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some body should create a psychopath database, so that others won't become victim again.
 
Re: A nice, rich article on a real psychopath, reads like a chapter out of Cleckley

Windmill knight, I'm glad that the first comment, yours, mentions that! That seems to be a hallmark of media reporting -- suppress knowledge of psychopathy.

Notice the reader comments, too, like, and I'm paraphrasing, "if only she could channel her cleverness into something positive." And when horrific crimes are covered on the TV news, I often hear the reporter utter, "how could a person do such a thing?" Oh, dear.

All we can do is keep trying to get a clue circulating out there.
 
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