Important Notes on Psychopathy

Re: Oh, that smells. (Neuroscientist spins brain scans.)

i literally just finished reading the article, and i couldn't agree more. having brain scans would be a good way of filtering out the people disposed to pathological ways of being and preventing them from reaching positions of power. although, i wouldn't like to underestimate their cunning because they could always come up with another piece of technology to counteract the scans, maybe?

never thought of looking at it this way either:
A story like this one seems pre-emptive in a time-sculpted kind of way. If I were a hyper dimensional livestock farmer, I'd definitely consider releasing poisoned information which would look a lot like this story. I'd probably arrange for an OP to become a respected doctor in neuroscience and release this kind of sensational discovery which would raise a mountain of reasonable doubt in interested parties.

definitely something to mull over.
 
Re: Oh, that smells. (Neuroscientist spins brain scans.)

Woodsman said:
I think our world is rather far beyond the point of no return, but I'd still like to see enough awareness about psychopaths grow in the public mind so that brain scans for government officials and executives would become a real consideration. Or at the very least, some kind of competent testing before huge decision-making powers are handed over.

I think it would be a good idea to use brainscans ALONG with other tests (maybe something like the B-scan). But at this point, I'm still wary of brain scans being used for a definite diagnosis. How many (if any) people have brain scans resembling psychopaths who are NOT psychopaths? As far as I know, it's not as simple as comparing two images and saying "this one's a psychopath, this one isn't." Robert Hare described some of the problems with interpreting scans in his 1970 book (this is from memory, I'll have to check the book again). You have to take into account that each individual is different (e.g. they have different base rates of activity, different reactivity, etc.), so there's overlap. The only way they discover real differences is using statistical analysis, which is good for large groups, but more difficult when it comes to single cases. Of course, they may have ways of taking all that into account. (Any neuroscientists here that can let us know how it's done these days?)

I also don't think enough is known about the brain conclusively to make that kind of call (e.g. there are cases where parts of the brain take over the function of other parts of the brain, which begs the question of how essential each brain part is to the function we normally associate with it; also, perhaps OPs brains are less plastic, meaning damage has a greater effect than it would in a non-OP, so a non-OP might have functions that are hidden, or elsewhere in the brain, giving a false image).

Or perhaps it's an honest bit of science. It's hard to tell, but this quote really raised my warning flags. . .

As for the psychopaths he studies, Fallon feels some compassion for these people who, he says, got "a bad roll of the dice."

"It's an unlucky day when all of these three things come together in a bad way, and I think one has to empathize with what happened to them," he says.

What do y'all think?

He could be a plant. Or he could just be projecting. Lobaczewski said something similar:
“You are partly
right in finding some similarity of the essential psychopath with the thought
[processes] of a crocodile. They are somewhat mechanical. But, are they guilty
that they have inherited an abnormal gene, and that their instinctive
substratum is different from that of the majority of the human population?
Such a person is not able to feel like a normal person, or to understand a
person bearing a normal instinctive endowment. [It is important] to try to
understand the psychopath, and have some pity for them [as you would have
pity for a crocodile and its right to exist in nature]. Limiting the
role of psychopaths in ponerogenesis, particularly in the case of the tragedies
they cause women, thus reducing their numbers, is the real aim.
 
Re: Oh, that smells. (Neuroscientist spins brain scans.)

The part I don't understand is he performed brain scan on his mother, and did he also check for MAO-A gene for her? The article doesn't mention that, but normally, in a scientific study, it would be logical to do so.

The reason I am asking is that MAO-A gene is carried on X-chromosome and if he has the variant, his mother also must have, otherwise he wouldn't inherit it.

As for his MAO-A variant, there may be other genes blocking its activity. Psychopathy is probably a polygenetic disorder, and it can not be determined by simply looking at MAO-A gene. It is not a marker, there are other genetic factors, or so I think.
 
Re: Oh, that smells. (Neuroscientist spins brain scans.)

I recently heard a a couple of news stories about a neuroscientist involved in these kinds of activities. I think it is the same person and yes, the "smell" was quite awful. It is interesting how, once you have learned to recognize this sort of thing, the recognition can seem to come through your nose first even though there is nothing physically to smell. :)

The person I heard about was doing brain scanning of some sort and offering "expert testimony" during trials that served to confuse jurors and help avoid convictions. The strong odor arose from the fact that he was using bits and pieces of information and presenting it as scientific evidence when in fact the scientific research is in an early stage where no solid conclusions can be drawn from it.

Unfortunately, it would appear that some jurors are ill-equipped to deal with simple, obvious "expert disinformation," let alone the complexities of psychopathic behavior. But then again, a psychopath tried by a true "jury of his peers" (i.e. all psychopaths) would presumably be acquitted, so maybe the present system isn't as bad as it sometimes seems.
 
Re: Oh, that smells. (Neuroscientist spins brain scans.)



In the brain and behavior class I taught last semester, the course project involved the question on whether or not brain scans are sufficient in criminal sentencing if the person's orbitofrontal cortex shows a pattern of activity that is common in psychopaths. It was interesting to read the responses of various students. Some brought up the argument that it is the crime itself that matters since many people with orbitofrontal activity similar to that of a psychopath may not commit criminal offenses and are probably not psychopaths. It's a common argument because most people are still not used to thinking of a non-criminal psychopath.


In any case, I agree with AI that one brain scan should not be the sole arbiter of a diagnosis. However it does give us a hints on whether or not the person is more likely to exhibit psychopathic tendencies (criminal or not) compared with someone with a different brain activity pattern. fMRI measures cerebral blood flow and in both psychopaths and schizophrenics there is hyperfunction in mesolimbic dopamine and hypofunction in orbitofrontal cortex. There are many differences between the two, however, that involves additional analysis that gets into spatial and temporal activity that fMRI is best at giving the spatial part.

Sometimes evoked electrical potential, EEG which gives good temporal data and fMRI can both be used when assessing the relationship between an individual's brain activity and particular disorders. For example, the p3 or P300 is the activity of a population of cortical cells 300 milliseconds after presentation of non-neutral stimulus against background noise stimuli. If I am remembering this correctly, alcoholics and their non-alcoholic offspring show reduced electrical potential at p300. This in turn is used with fMRI to help in selection of possible candidate genes that may be involved. From there the genetic studies can be done. Other things may alter p300 activity which is why researchers use it as either as a springboard for genetic studies or in conjunction with genetic studies. So the fMRI or EEG alone are marker but often not used alone except in experimental studies as opposed to say diagnosis. Also, depending on the stimulus you can actually have increased or decreased activity in individuals whether they are psychopaths or not so it depends on exactly what is looked at in conjunction with other tests. Devil in the detail and the details are often missing in what is made public. For example, fMRI data from one study shows decreased amygdala function in those diagnosed with anti-social disorder and it is deemed a reliable marker. I've also seen data for a subset with that diagnosis that actually shows an increased functioning. Maybe the study was designed badly or something went wrong. In either case, one always need to look at multiple data sets from different types of studies. A former student of mine is now looking at p300 and fMRI in a genetics lab for antisocial disorder so it will be interesting to see his results.


Even with illnesses or injury, brain scans are used in conjunction with other tests; behavioral, biochemical, basic observation ( like knowing that a head injury occurred) etc. I am not aware of biochemical tests for psychopathy, though monoamine differences exists (serotonin, epinephrine, nor-epinephrine and dopamine). There are gene variants that are being looked at as potential markers but not yet accepted as definitive markers. This is because these things usually involve multiple genes in which the contribution from any one gene toward a given disorder is very small. So I think brain scan results just help to narrow down what may be the most likely situation compared to what is considered normal, as well as give an indication of other things to look at if it was not already done. This is when psychometric tests, which include PCL-R among others, behavioral observations, etc. comes into play. Hopefully soon genetic tests.

In essence, brain scans are useful for determining how much an individual's brain activity differ from the estimated population's average score in order to explain the likely neurological basis of the results gleaned from the other assessments. So no, it shouldn't be the only test. I am guessing there is actually a range of scores based on averages from multiple participants, which in turn is used to estimate population norms. So, if they then scan an individual whose pattern of brain activity scores fall above or below the average range of scores by a given amount (often 2 or more standard deviations from the average) then the determination is that the individual is an outlier, ie different from the normal population. That score is then compared to the average range of scores determined from multiple individuals diagnosed as psychopaths. If it falls within the average range of scores for psychopaths, then most likely the person is one but I would say that the inclusion of other data (behavior, psychometric tests) should be included in a definitive diagnosis. If you just want to predict the likelihood, not definitive that an individual may be psychopathic, then sure the brain scan alone is one of any given number of predictors but not the sole determinant. I am interested in knowing how strong a predictor of psychopathy it is. ( percent contribution it provides) and will have to look it up. That gets into all the statistical analysis and such.


It maybe that there is a push to focus on scans because for now, it may be easier to discount the result when it is the only tool used and most have no idea how strong a predictor it is. For example, polygraphs were used extensively for lie detection. Anectdotally people would talk about how easy it was to beat. In the late 1990s their accuracy was looked at in meta analysis of many tests over the years, it was around 60 percent or so. Better than chance, yes, definitive no. There have since been new improved lie detector tests, one of which includes fMRI with a stated 90% accuracy. Interesting that this particular lie detector has been rejected by criminal courts as a tool. hmm.....

For all I know fMRI could be a very strong predictor of psychopathy. If it explains say 80 percent of the variability in psychopaths, then it is very strong and so should be used. I dunno though. Maybe others know this. For the everyday person it may be sufficient to say that there is a common brain activity pattern in psychopaths though for diagnosis..
My opinion as someone who is not expert on brain scans is that converging data accumulated from the use of different types of assessment tools, that also account for the lack of violence in a sub-set of psychopaths, is the way to go. I reckon psychopaths dont' want that. Interesting too that as fMRI are becoming popular, the psychometric tests are coming under attack. They want one to focus on one thing so you don't see the other stuff that is going on.

brainwave.
 
Re: Oh, that smells. (Neuroscientist spins brain scans.)

Oh, I forgot to mention. I brought up p300 evoked potential in alcoholics because studies were done in conjunction with genetics. Criminal psychopaths also show abnormal p300 response to certain stimuli. I think it was khiel (sp?) who did those brain studies with p300 and criminal psychopaths.

brainwave
 
Now I just want to get some input on something. I just recently ran across the term Psychopath and realized that a lot of the traits I saw actually fit me. Maybe I'm just a hypochondriac or whatever the psychological equivalent, but as a teenager most of my family thought I was crazy. There was only one particular time where I had actually done something to warrant the accusations, but for the most part they just assumed it from things I would say. I had to take a Psych Eval as a teenager at one point, but only because it was court ordered, and even then I figured it would be easier just to feign Mr. Right. rather than actually tell them what I thought. It must have worked because I got out not long after, even though I did have to see a shrink. At one point the detective who questioned me told my mom that I had reminded him of "The Columbine Kids". As if. Anyway, I just want to know if it's possible for a psychopath to understand what they are. The whole psychopath thing is intriguing to me, and I think it would be interesting to meet someone diagnosed with ASPD and see what they think about their so called "illness". In all honesty I think the psychopath should be the next step in evolution for humanity. In the wild, a wolf would snap a rabbits neck without a second thought. So what makes us different? If you could do something that would make you and/or your family more successful, even at someone else's expense, then why shouldn't you?? Because society says so? Anyway, I guess that's just my opinion.
 
Now I know why I can't find The Psychopath: The Mask of Sanity - it's out of print. Thank you, Laura and the gang for posting a link to the book!
 
Example of a Female Psychopath. They often leave a trail of Deaths before they're eventually discovered.

'I am evil': British nurse murdered seven newborn babies

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