In Spain, now...

[Palinurus]

What makes me feel sick when I see this short video is to see: how the police arrests a senior and how people are taking pictures of this. In fact seeing people taking pictures with their phones or whatever of the distrust of others is something that hurts me a lot. I see vultures.

Hi loreta, there's another side to this as far as I'm aware.

I don't know about Spain but where I live (Amsterdam, The Netherlands) it's quite common for activists, demonstrators and their followers to take pictures with cell phones and the like from all and every action of the various policeforces just to have ample evidence of any wrongdoing, unnecessary violence or whatever for future court cases.

 

[loreta]

What makes me feel sick when I see this short video is to see: how the police arrests a senior and how people are taking pictures of this. In fact seeing people taking pictures with their phones or whatever of the distrust of others is something that hurts me a lot. I see vultures.

Hi loreta, there's another side to this as far as I'm aware.

I don't know about Spain but where I live (Amsterdam, The Netherlands) it's quite common for activists, demonstrators and their followers to take pictures with cell phones and the like from all and every action of the various policeforces just to have ample evidence of any wrongdoing, unnecessary violence or whatever for future court cases.

Yes, you are right and I am aware of this also. But the other day when the big manifestation I saw (in some videos) people being hurt by cops and surrounded by photographs. Their body language was very disturbing, I had the sensation that they were loving taking pictures of hurt people for their "scoops". They were like famish, exited, tremulous. I know that it is important to take pictures to inform the public but I also think that there is a fine red line between those who take the pictures to inform and those who take the pictures just to sell news. And in this balance, or imbalance, are my sentiments.

 

[Palinurus]

I understand what you are saying and thanks for clarifying. Sensationalism is horrible and repugnant from any side, I quite agree.

 

[Alx]

"25S crónica 2 25 septiembre 2012 " http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDCRgqspmyU

If it continues like that, I wonder what will happen. Really intense video in the middle of it all.

 

[Palinurus]

Hi Alx,

I went over to watch the video and was confronted with the following message from YouTube:

25S crónica 2 25 septiembre 2012 8:49

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I've never encountered this message before but maybe others have. I didn't sign in as of yet without pondering the consequences (identification) first. Any help on that anyone?

 

[loreta]

This is really shameful. I feel terrible seeing this. I feel... I don't know. This country is showing his true colors. I knew Spain was a very hard country, very capitalistic, very hard core. But now this is very, very shameful. And this is just the beginning! And also I understand more clearly when, in 1936, a civil war started. I understand, this not mean I approve.

At the same time I see and feel something very special for some Spaniards; some are so valiant and strong.

But shame! to this power who permits that policemen can hurt middle age women and arrested them. Shame!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=gDOQQJBzeko

 

[loreta]

Hi Alx,

I went over to watch the video and was confronted with the following message from YouTube:

25S crónica 2 25 septiembre 2012 8:49

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This content may contain material flagged by YouTube's user community that may be inappropriate for some users.

To view this video, please confirm you are old enough by signing in.

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If you would instead prefer to avoid potentially inappropriate content, consider activating YouTube's Safety Mode.

I've never encountered this message before but maybe others have. I didn't sign in as of yet without pondering the consequences (identification) first. Any help on that anyone?

Very strange... I can go to see the video without questions like you receive. I don't understand.

 

[Voyageur]

Hi Alx,

I went over to watch the video and was confronted with the following message from YouTube:

25S crónica 2 25 septiembre 2012 8:49

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This content may contain material flagged by YouTube's user community that may be inappropriate for some users.

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I've never encountered this message before but maybe others have. I didn't sign in as of yet without pondering the consequences (identification) first. Any help on that anyone?

Works for me here.

Perhaps there is a filter in the country you reside in? Some of the things on SotT cannot be viewed from home here; US Content - copywrite or some type of proprietor agreements?

 

[loreta]

In English, very interesting contre-rendu about what happened here this week.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luwXyO9ZMfY

You know, I think about all this situation... There is a taboo theme here in Spain and it is the Civil War. And when you refuse to confront your past, your past will confront you. Same in Japan, I think so, concerning the atomic attacks. But here in Spain the problem is that the King, the King of this country, was put there by Franco. That tells you everything. And the elite of Franco is still here, also. In fact they are our government now. Spaniards thought that the consequences of the Civil War were buried under the illusion of democracy and specially of consumerism. False! The phantom of Franco is still here and the divisions produced before and after the civil war, also. The same that did the coup d'état were never judged, and continued to have power after the death of the Caudillo till now. Franco assured this continuity, let me tell you. And the King was his certainty of this continuation with the help of the Church, the Army and the big business interests and also the outside influences (NATO, USA).

Now we are confronted with something that will divided, maybe, this country even more than in 36, I am afraid. It seems to me that there is no back forward. So not just the phantom of Franco is very present, but also all the others phantoms of the Civil War. I hope I am wrong.

These ideas came to me during the night, unable I was to sleep.

 

[Joe]

Hi Alx,

I went over to watch the video and was confronted with the following message from YouTube:

25S crónica 2 25 septiembre 2012 8:49

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This content may contain material flagged by YouTube's user community that may be inappropriate for some users.

To view this video, please confirm you are old enough by signing in.

Sign In

If you would instead prefer to avoid potentially inappropriate content, consider activating YouTube's Safety Mode.

I've never encountered this message before but maybe others have. I didn't sign in as of yet without pondering the consequences (identification) first. Any help on that anyone?

THat's normal when the video is flagged (for whatever reason, maybe by Youtube or the publisher) as having "adult content". If you are not signed in to your account for such a video they ask you to sign in.

 

[Joe]

"25S crónica 2 25 septiembre 2012 " http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDCRgqspmyU

If it continues like that, I wonder what will happen. Really intense video in the middle of it all.

Frankly, it would have been perfectly justifiable for that entire crowd to give those policemen a taste of their own medicine. Maybe they'd think twice about being such thugs the next time.

 

[Palinurus]

Perhaps there is a filter in the country you reside in? Some of the things on SotT cannot be viewed from home here; US Content - copywrite or some type of proprietor agreements?

Not to my knowledge, but maybe it was a timebased blockage especially for kids because when I tried to watch, it was smack in the middle of rush hour on the net, locally.

THat's normal when the video is flagged (for whatever reason, maybe by Youtube or the publisher) as having "adult content". If you are not signed in to your account for such a video they ask you to sign in.

Thanks for clarifying. I suspected as much but wanted to be sure since it was the first time for me to encounter this. Okay then.

 

[Alx]

Frankly, it would have been perfectly justifiable for that entire crowd to give those policemen a taste of their own medicine.

Well I have to admit it did feel pretty good when they started fighting back a bit. But then again, there is the position of non-violence, and simply not participating in their methods. It's easy to fall into a us-versus-them thinking.

With a non-violent approach from the masses, people within the police forces will eventually (I hope) realize that what they are doing is wrong - and maybe change sides. Police can't just continue to hurt and arrest innocent people, without feeling at least something. If people instead start to fight back, they then "lower" themselves into the opposing forces realm of violence and fear - and these forces may only be fuelled on by it.

Police forces and the people should not be enemies of each other. They are just played against each other, while the elite sit back and laugh. If non-violence gives a chance of uniting people against the "real enemy", then I think it is the route to always support.

However, I have no idea if that is how it will work out in reality. Perhaps it's just an utopian view to think this would be the results of a non-violent approach - and perhaps people really do need to fight back like this. I don't know. I guess we will see what happens in the world the coming years.

 

[Joe]

With a non-violent approach from the masses, people within the police forces will eventually (I hope) realize that what they are doing is wrong - and maybe change sides.

Remember Nazi Germany?

 

[loreta]

With a non-violent approach from the masses, people within the police forces will eventually (I hope) realize that what they are doing is wrong - and maybe change sides. Police can't just continue to hurt and arrest innocent people, without feeling at least something. If people instead start to fight back, they then "lower" themselves into the opposing forces realm of violence and fear - and these forces may only be fuelled on by it.

Police forces and the people should not be enemies of each other. They are just played against each other, while the elite sit back and laugh. If non-violence gives a chance of uniting people against the "real enemy", then I think it is the route to always support.

The big majority of people who were manifesting were non-violent. The most of people who were arrested and maltreated by policemen were non-violent. People who where arrested violently were non-violent. Those who received blows on the head of rubber bullets were non-violent. They were people like you and me, seniors, teachers, pensioners, students...

The violent people in these manifestations were infiltrated or policemen in civil clothing.