India and Pakistan head to war ?
- Thread starter Ursus Minor
- Start date
India says it has no idea what Trump is talking about.
India contradicts Rubio, saying the cease-fire was worked out directly between India and Pakistan, and that there had been no decision to hold talks on any other issue at any location.
India contradicts Rubio, saying the cease-fire was worked out directly between India and Pakistan, and that there had been no decision to hold talks on any other issue at any location.
Ministry of Information and Broadcasting
Pakistan says otherwise:
Initially Pakistan accepted the defeat and this is the Pakistan PM giving speech of confession.
google translation
They used Trump as the mediator , who gladly accepted it to put his stamp. Then came Chinese assurance.
So they immediately violated ceasefire by sending drone on Srinagar in the process embarrassing Trump ( or exposing Trump's bluster). Pakistan PM flipped the script and gave ultimatums. Every body trying to show flip script to avoid embarrassment to Trump and to themselves for believing Trump. At least they realized that little later. so stopped the violation and will continue the charade of talks until regrouped. Uki's did the same to Putin. In a way, It is the same story for India since 1947 but in short bursts.
It is much worse for Indians ( who hoped these terrorist attacks that are going on since Afghan war period may cease) and felt the same familiar feeling - betrayal ( long story- will write later). The reality is that there are always big fishes in this world.
So In short, Pakistan got new official employer to fund its jihadists ( or canon fodder) to control over their own . They will take some to regroup and attack again with one excuse or other. We will have to see how big this quagmire will be.
axj
The Living Force
Could you explain what you mean? Who do you think is Pakistan's "new official employer to fund its jihadists" and why?
This is first time Chinese missiles used against the western crafts. So Chinese are super happy to the demo for their possible Taiwan plans.
India's Loudest right wing mouth piece questioning Trump's Role.
China
Why?
Despite having 2 wars in 1948, 1965 over Kashmir, Kashmir was still a peaceful place until mid 80's ( even called India's heaven for its beautiful scenery) . Then came Afghan war, terrorist supply chain pakistan championed for the West and it is bloody world since then. you may want to read different parts in the series and that goes into nuts and bolts.
Kashmir Terrorism Timeline (1990–1995): History of terrorism in Kashmir Interactive - India Today
In Part 6 of our Interactive on Kashmir terrorism history, explore how Pakistan’s recurring strategy of direct, overt, and covert warfare in Kashmir has evolved over the years, read in-depth interactive on the kashmir’s conflict.
Modi's strategy to isolate that which he did until now. Now China stepped in.
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axj
The Living Force
Why would China fund jihadists when they had their own problem with them?
China and Pakistan also have a very good relationship for years now, so it is hardly new.
Do you think that because China sees India as a big rival, China decided to make a move on India now through Pakistan? That also doesn't make much sense. China is facing off with the US and needs BRICS unity probably more than ever before at this time.
axj
The Living Force
There doesn't seem to be any evidence that China has funded any jihadists - while a lot of evidence exists that Western intelligence services and Israel's Mossad funded or even created jihadist groups.
I am not sure if that guarantee from China to defend Pakistan's sovereignity is new either. News articles say that China "reiterated" its full support for Pakistan, not that it is a new guarantee. A guarantee also does not mean that China will fund Pakistan's jihadists.
Exactly, China is facing off with the USA right now, so it would be the worst time for China to start a confrontation with India as well. Who actually benefits from this?
What's real is the provocation that sparked this (the terror attack in Kashmir), and what's real in the subtext of the ensuing conflict is a battle for water.The main geopolitical plot these days is to maintain American hegemony and keep down rising peer competitors. In other words, to disrupt the BRICS - or so I thought. I found it interesting that Korybko both agrees and disagrees with this perspective.
Ten Points To Keep In Mind Amidst Escalating Indo-Pak Tensions
Everyone has the right to make up their own minds about these tensions and the Kashmir Conflict that lies at their core, but they should also know that there’s more to all this than what they might be led to be believe by the organized pro-Palestinian movement and the Alt-Media Community.substack.com
So I'm wondering, do points 5 and 10 contradict each other? He seems to be saying this conflict isn't about BRICS - it's about the Great Power game of American hegemony, which necessitates keeping India down.
But I thought BRICS, as a group of 5 nations cooperating on numerous levels, is basically the key threat to America in today's Great Power game? Of course, the individual BRICS nations are a threat in themselves. But wouldn't they be even more of a threat when combined, cooperating, making agreements - as BRICS? I dunno, maybe it's all just semantics.
At any rate, I do wonder if the exchange of fire between Pakistan and India is coordinated between the two governments - and to what extent this is all a big show. Are they presenting a conflict for the public, because they were forced to respond to Western provocations that neither of them really wanted?
And meanwhile, are they negotiating military measures and counter-measures at the political level? I think this would be likely, becauseI find it hard to believe that India would start bombing a nuclear-armed Pakistan without some kind of formal communication.
Or it could be a real conflict. In which case, it may backfire, and galvanize India instead of weakening it - in the same way that the SMO in Ukraine seems to have only strengthened Russia. And, if real, the conflict may also backfire if the goal is disrupting BRICS, because it could push India away from the West and closer to Russia (and maybe even push India closer to China).
At any rate, hard to know what's fake and what's real these days.
India-Pakistan conflict over water reflects a region increasingly vulnerable to climate change
Water treaties should be rewritten to factor in climate change and new geopolitical realities.
theconversation.com
Korybko writes:
Pakistan has some agency, until 'someone' steps in, and then it has none.
Are you saying that China is (probably, or certainly) behind the terror attack in Kashmir?
The Pakistani Defence Minister has implicitly admitted that the terrorists were Pakistani, and also implied that he couldn't do much about them because of Anglo-American influence, not Chinese:
No. As long as some body funds Pakistan, Pakistani deep state ( or terrorist industrial complex) will continue to train their poor population as Jihadi's for these types of attacks ( in the name of Allah) to hold control over their population who were educated on anti-India stance for more than 2 generations ( they rewrote entire education after 1971 defeat ). Imran Khan issue is only one latest example since 1950 (after its founder Jinnah died leaving no proper governance). It is their deep state ( or military) attempt to hold on to control and India is the chief target to that end.
Modi's attempt is to isolate Pakistan and force Pakistan "stop this terrorism in the name of Allah and show nuclear bluff or even blackmail the world to support them". If China is going to fill the traditional USA role by supporting it for whatever they do to India, these stuff continue for ever. India is at least 12 times denser than USA and effect is LOT long lasting.
Here is video that tend to popup whenever there is a conflict because it resonated with many. Pakistan intrudes, world says stop both of you. How many times they initiate a war (and often lose), world says the same. it is the same story.
short transcript and I removed lot of clutter . I will put the exact subtitles later.
There is a different angle or speculation I saw just now for the Trump involvement. Crux of it is, Pakistan tested nuclear bomb, China informed Trump to get involved. But some rogue elements in Pakistan continued to violate the ceasefire.
I got the above video from this thread talking about 3 possible scenario's . It is a long discussion based on supposed earth quake near Pakistan supposed nuclear storage location in the hills. opinions:
- It didn't happen,
- It happened at 10Km deep , so not nuclear and it is natural
- India did it to say it is not going to bow to nuclear bluff
- and Pakistan itself tested it. Trump got involved.
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