Interesting quote on pathology

[palestine]

Quote from Ponerology.substack.com

Pathocracy is a macrosocial expression of psychopathy. It has no fundamental relationship with either zionism or anti-zionism. In other words, a Jewish pathocracy is just as possible as an anti-Jewish pathocracy, or a pathocracy that has no relation to either.

I've posted it before but wanted to head back at it, because of the bolded part, which carries on the whole A. Loabczewski's microcosm IMO.

This part explains, in a nutshell, the basics of psychopathology.

It shows that going the road of anti-Zionism is not something that which grants a golden ticket to paradise & the world of "good people". Danger lurks there, too. I think we could ponder this "knowledge", even if we cannot really fathom this reality - as a starting point... to know what & how to watch out.

- Starting up with anti-Zionism, we end up with a pathocracy...
- Starting up with Communism, or Nazism - at some point - we need to change our views and stop considering the ideology. Fully. Something else came by.

The italic part provides the reason, but it is complex. I am not even sure I can explain it correctly.

I believe we are not used to such motion, in reality. An intrinsic change took place, in a structure, to the extent that we have to "switch tools" - all of this taking place within the same element. I understand this has been the challenge for historians (and scientists): they could not reach the understanding of the phenomenon because their world view has no room for such a process / motion.

- First is that we end up, within the initial object - with a new element. A completely independent element. This is quite an aspect.

- Second is that this takes place within a "linear motion" and within the same object. History & science have no room for that, and it's perhaps why it is difficult to understand. An element could change, after all, and the motion here is a sort of parazitism.

- Third is that this refers to psychopathology, a domain that is not considered as susceptible to have anything to do in politics, country's structures, civilizations, etc etc - when it does. (I am wondering if science could make it a new "law" - corruption in regard of the initial state... If it takes place in groups - why not in other biological elements? Unless it's a human aspect only.)

 

[gottathink]

This part explains, in a nutshell, the basics of pathology.

Not really, pathology is the study of disease. Were you meaning something else?

Edit: I don’t think it needs to be this complex. The corruption of social systems simply occurs because of extreme service to self orientation of the individuals within the system. It does not matter what the system is.

Harrison’s substack explores these concepts thoroughly.

 

[palestine]

Not really, pathology is the study of disease. Were you meaning something else?

I should have used "psychopathology". Perhaps I can edit.

 

[palestine]

Edit: I don’t think it needs to be this complex. The corruption of social systems simply occurs because of extreme service to self orientation of the individuals within the system. It does not matter what the system is.

Hello, thank you for your message. I think... As I am researching those topics, I ultimately stumble upon a big question. I would kind of face the requirement to define evil, in the context of various elements we have at hand:

• evil - the word per se - what does it mean
• Service To Self - the big metaphysic of the Universe as taught by the C's
• Psychopathology, a term indicating a discrepancy from "normal human's sane mind" - so perhaps related to Earth only?

A. Lobaczewski expands a lot on the words "we must understand the essence of the phenomenon" when he speaks of pathocracy and the psychopathology that comes from hereditary psychopathies. This ever makes me wonder on that specific "source" - psychopathology, originating from DNA psychopaths. Sometimes, I see it as a sort of "bridge" to the unknown, sometimes I see it as a well-defined matter, with a limit.

Thinking of this makes me ponder STS and evil as described by A. Lobaczewski. Perhaps you would like to drop a few takes and comments?

The matter I thought of, recently, was that, perhaps, "evil" would start originating at 4th D (STS) only. But what if "evil" was a 7th D motion? Something meant for balance? In such a case, evil would originate from 7th D - serving the purpose of balance. The matter here is that "evil" becomes a sort of metaphysic, hence my will to define it more. Can it be defined more? Should it remain considered as "evil"? See what I mean? A. Lobazewski refines "evil" with "psychopathology", he narrows the principle to it. But, at the same time, psycvhopathology remains a generic "principle" - AKA "when the mind is discrepant".

I would be eager to be able to theoretically frame "evil" in the context of "STS": which one is subordinated to the other - if anything such can be done?

Please comment if you feel so, even if you are not sure.

My idea would be that psychopathology, being a basic discrepancy from the normal human mind ("psyche pathology" aka "diseased"), does not forcibly equate to Service To Self. I think some could be discerned on this matter. Looks like "an egg & a hen" situation, but I think something could be understood. Once done, we could frame A. Lobaczewski's model within C model with precision, something that, I believe, will be done in the future. I am stumbling upon those questions right now, and I think both models (C - STS and STO) (A. Lobaczewski - psychopathology/evil and Normal humans) are objectively reflective of reality, so that there are precise explanations. Are those the same model? Can those two models be "imbricated"?

I see psychiatrists as having spotted that something wrong lurked at the level of the insane minds. From there, perhaps it would lead to the recognition of Service To Self as being what conditions the whole matter - perhaps the psychopathology approach would lead to another conclusion. That would be where I am right now. Psychiatrists found out "essential psychopathy" but are yet at the step of "being surprized" and still working as to define what this is. We know, thanks from A. Lobaczewski, that it's about "evil". We know, thanks to the C's, that the universe has an entropic polarity which is caracterized by "self serving". I think - where to go from the psychiatrists having found "essential psychopathy"? Perhaps, it's good than to do our own research, because waiting for science to do the job will take eons.

Thanks in advance if there is anything you could say about those ideas and questions! Do not hesitate. I think I would like to discuss those matters and have more members understand and interest themselves to those topics.

 

[Renaissance]

Thinking of this makes me ponder STS and evil as described by A. Lobaczewski. Perhaps you would like to drop a few takes and comments?

The matter I thought of, recently, was that, perhaps, "evil" would start originating at 4th D (STS) only. But what if "evil" was a 7th D motion? Something meant for balance? In such a case, evil would originate from 7th D - serving the purpose of balance. The matter here is that "evil" becomes a sort of metaphysic, hence my will to define it more. Can it be defined more? Should it remain considered as "evil"? See what I mean? A. Lobazewski refines "evil" with "psychopathology", he narrows the principle to it. But, at the same time, psycvhopathology remains a generic "principle" - AKA "when the mind is discrepant".

I would be eager to be able to theoretically frame "evil" in the context of "STS": which one is subordinated to the other - if anything such can be done?

Have you read The Wave?

 

[palestine]

Have you read The Wave?

Yes - some time ago... I think I own a copy of "Soul hackers"

I see The Wave as a reference framed in the context of discovering / presenting the STS aspect, and A. Lobaczewski too.

A mix between "at the time" and the aim of presenting the general concepts. It's quite precise, then, too.

I think I am looking for a sort of "follow-up" on the comparison between STS and A. Lobaczewski; I am sure Laura has been investigating those matters, and that there are paragraphs on it - but those would remain at a certain threshold of precision. I assume I could find takes such as "And yes, the psychopathy Lobaczewski is talking about, meets STS because ... and ...". I would like to dig deeper in this "sort of teaching".

Not that Laura does not expand on the concepts, but she has the talent of presenting the matters, and expanding quite a lot, especially in what she feels. It's sometimes quite extensive - but I think I won't find the answers to my questions in the Wave. I can say this because the forum seldom express takes on "STS" and "pathology" - but those terms remain general. I am for instance trying to see the exact qualities of STS in relationship to A. Lobaczewski. But perhaps there is something in the Wave.

You kindly reminded me of the book. Is there in your opinion anything such? Thank you.

 

[Renaissance]

It might help to reread The Wave. There are 8 volumes and I’m not certain if you have read them all.

STS is the state of being for humanity on the planet. It’s our orientation. Psychopathy represents the extreme extent of STS at 3D. It’s not all that clear what you are asking, to be honest. It would probably help you and others to try and be as concise as possible.

 

[palestine]

@Renaissance, hello, thank you. I will give a look back at the Wave.

Psychopathy represents the extreme extent of STS at 3D

A. Lobaczewski explains the following (=my present interpretation goes as follows):

• psychopathies = DNA-based orientation towards psychopathology
• normal people (mind sanity, model, normal human, "standard") VS psychopathology, which marks any discrepancy from the "standard", so sane psychology

I understand psychopathies as a "DNA conditioning" of psychopathology.
From there on, we've got STS, first a principle of balance, then a precise term (meaning serving the self).

Serving the self, and psychopathology, under this light, appear to me as "aberrations" (or "corruption", or "degeneration") from a, let's say, "state". Like a mirror.

> A study under the light of psychopathology shows a "sane initial state" being that of "normal sane human mind".
> A Cassiopaean STO/STS perspective would lay down "STO" as the intial "state"

"Serving the self" is precise, while "psychopathology" simply encompasses all forms of degeneration for the human being.

Still, both seem to be extremely relevant in terms of reality; in addition, the generic aspect of "psychopathological" has few "ceiling" in terms of the theory one would be able to create, in using "psychopathology" as a metaphysic.

You explain me that psychopathology (or perhaps DNA psychopathies exclusively) represents an apex of STS. This is a hint, thank you. I think I would be eager to ask you if STS, in this light, has to be considered as the STS pool, or the principle of serving the self (please).

Serving the self is something that can touch all & everybody, while the STS pool is, too, representative of a sort of "faction" - it's abalance in the Universe. A holy person can give into a self serving action without seeing his world turning into the STS polarity of the Universe. So I think I am thinking in psychological terms, and trying to define the hierarchy of "psychopathology", according to whatever action of "serving the self".

That is because in our daily reality there exist all sorts of people and beings, some giving into psychopathology, others into STS, all of this being in the same pool, and still, psychopathology means something precise in clinical terms, something that is objective and useful in terms of knowledge and classification. STS, too.

So, I am trying to see if something could be precised along those lines!

Various scenarios:

"That Men in black is probably an STS person, 4thD. He is psychopathological in terms of his psyche, and will act in a way that is not reflecting a normal human mind.""

"That girl has been wounded by psychopaths; she now believes she must get drunk in order to apease her suffering. Would be psychopathological. She does not especially commit herself to an STS way. Perhaps, a damaging way. It is STS, yeah, but there may exist things that literally push people towards self-serving. In this specific case - that girl - we see a variation, in terms of damages, psyhe, etc."

"This girl has been wounded by psychopaths; her mind suffers from a wound that turned her into STS mode. She now believs (...)"

Perhaps this explains better what I am trying to understand. I hope so. May you tell me if this is understandable, if it makes sense, and anything additional you woule like to provide! Thank you in advance.

 

[gottathink]

The topic of psychopathy and its various facets is explored thoroughly in the materials contained on the forum and in the Wave series. Rather than spending time formulating elaborate questions just read more.

You will be able to intuit more answers if you have a comprehensive understanding of the topics already covered by Laura, the Cs and forum members. The recommended reading list is useful to figure out what to read.

Some ideas for search terms:
Organic portals and failed organic portals
Adamic and pre-Adamic man
wetiko

 

[palestine]

Rather than spending time formulating elaborate questions just read more.

Yes - back to alone work then. Slow progress, no feedback. If this is the road, I will take it with a smile (and pursue)

You will be able to intuit more answers if you have a comprehensive understanding of the topics already covered by Laura, the Cs and forum members.

I hope so! Thanks for the topics!