Interfering with someone's Free Will to keep them from harm

[Guardian]

I may have also experienced a similar feeling as you describe S.A.O

It feels like every part of you is 'switched on' and the feeling literally compells you to act on the situation with pure crystal thought. It's almost as if you are drawing on something 'more' , something from 'inside' that turns on and completely focuses you on the task at hand with NO distractions or programmes at all.

What you and S.A.O. have described is exactly what I was trying to say...yawl just did it better :)

I've done security/safety work for gatherings, festivals, marches, races, concerts, etc. for decades ...so I've probably experienced the state more often than people who don't intentional put themselves in intense situations...but it's the same thing I think.

The only time I can recall regretting my choice of action was a domestic, and I screwed up for the exact reason S.A.O. mentioned above....my own personal prejudices. I got to the site, they were seriously into it, throwing punches, and REFUSED to respond to my voice so I put the 6'+ man in a hold and took him down ....at which point the less than 5' tall woman promptly jumped on my back and started wailing on me with everything she could grab.

I was in my 20's so there was definitely aa learning curve ...but I never made that mistake again.

 

[Approaching Infinity]

On the one hand, maybe the drunk driving guy needed to learn a lesson involving a car accident. And maybe the people he would have hit actually needed to experience that - for whatever reasons, and to learn whatever lessons we may be unable to fathom. And perhaps, that will still occur to them all, but later, and in different ways.

Another thing to consider is the very presence of a person who can intervene in such a situation. If a person drives home drunk, and there was no one there to intervene, perhaps it is just his or her lesson. But if we are present, perhaps it is our lesson to act, and to protect that person from self-harm? Everything anart said still applies, but I think that just "being there" adds another dimension to the situation. Think of all the times that we have been in a situation, have done nothing, and then had to deal with the realization that "I SHOULD have acted. I SHOULD have done something, but did not." In such situations, it is possible that the choice was presented to us, so that we might be able to see what was truly in someone's best interests. Acting for that part of them which is higher, and with that part of ourselves which is higher.

 

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

I remember having the thought along the lines of what Approaching Infinity just said. If the universe really wants someone to get hurt, it can do that without giving anyone else the opportunity to intervene. So if it's doing it right in front of you, there's gotta be a reason. It's infinitely capable of taking care of itself and I'm sure that I cannot thwart its plans if it doesn't want me to, so if it gives me a choice, I feel like I'm already part of the event just by having that choice given to me. Now whether it was a lesson for me to abstain while being given a choice is another question, but unless I have a really good reason to abstain, a reason I can See right then and there, I'll do my best to help. And I know that if the universe wants that person to get hurt, they will, and nobody/nothing will be able to stop it no matter what anyone does - so I'm just "doing what is in me to do" since I was given the power to do it. And the universe knows what anybody is likely to do in any given situation, so by allowing someone who is likely to help a chance to help, it is not "caught by surprise" when such help is given, it is certainly not against its "plans", osit. If you're meant to die, you can bet there won't be anyone or anything to save you - but if they can, then that in and of itself is significant, suggesting that this is by design, and not an "oversight". Unlike the movie "Final Destination", I doubt "death" can be truly cheated, or any lesson for that matter.

In other words, we shouldn't try to second-guess the universe and try to figure out what anyone is or is not "meant" to experience. If something CAN happen, we can be sure it is "meant" to happen. If something truly isn't meant to be, how could it be? And vice versa - if it's not meant to be, we can bet that there isn't an iota of a chance that it will be. So if there is a choice, then that choice is itself "meant to be", and whatever we choose is exactly the "right" thing as far as the universe is concerned. Although it may not be the right thing as far as our soul is concerned. So it seems that we just need to externally consider the best we can and act from the heart, with respect to what is being Asked for and what is in us to do, as best as we can tell.

 

[Guardian]

Think of all the times that we have been in a situation, have done nothing, and then had to deal with the realization that "I SHOULD have acted. I SHOULD have done something, but did not."

I've never experienced that...but it sounds pretty horrible

There are LOTS of times that afterward I think of stuff I could've done better, but I don't think I can just "do nothing."

 

[Oxajil]

Hi Guardian (your nickname fits you :))

The suicide thread got me to thinking about interfering with someone's free will, because I've done it, and I'll probably do it again. I just can't watch someone about to physically harm themselves or others without stopping them if I can.

Back when I was doing swift water rescue, I would routinely pull people off the river because they were too drunk, high, etc. If they tried to give me grief for not letting them make the run, I'd just wade in, tip them out of their kayak, and take their boat. They'd get it back when they're sober, and not before. Same with cars...only a few months ago I took a guy's distributor wire so he wouldn't drive drunk.

I know it's a fine line, but I've always been of the belief that when someone isn't in their right mind, I have an obligation to protect their physical safety (and those around them) until they are.

The same goes for acts of violence. When I stop someone from hurting someone else, I'm definitely interfering with the attacker's free will....yet I feel the most deep seeded obligation to do so.

Sometimes I wonder though...what gives me the right to interfere...even when an innocent is being harmed? Do I become the STS being I'm fighting simply by fighting them?

Well I guess you were doing your job pretty good! I think such jobs really fit your nature then. Maybe that's why some policemen or people in murder investigations really like their jobs, because it fits their nature as well, like maybe mentioned here:

Q: (L) So, when a person is working on a murder investigation, or
thinking about it, or applying thoughts, talents, instincts or whatever
to the solving of this kind of puzzle, they are interacting with a plane
convergence?

A: This represents one manifestation of the always present desire to
return "home" to 5th density.

I think it might become tricky when you do such things in your daily life with people you know, but of course it is difficult to say.

I think the more Work you do, the more programs you understand in yourself, do EE etc. you might better be able to See (or Hear) how to act in a certain situation, before going all instinct without thinking, or maybe not and this is just how it is and maybe 'should be'.

 

[ocean59]

That's a really interesting looking book about the thin-slicing you linked to SAO, thanks for sharing it.

I also know exactly the state you mentioned in your next post very well - you described it better than I ever could. It is also rare for me, but I can think to about 6 or 7 times, and indeed, I never regretted the actions I took when in such a state of "heightened awareness" for lack of a better term. I'd never given those experiences much thought until you described it so succinctly, which made me realize how unique they really were.

I've often wondered if how I react to certain situations has something to do with the fact that I'm "face blind." I usually can't recognize people by their faces, I'm dependent on their voices. I've got perfect pitch and hear emotions more than I see them. Except for body language, I use sound to interpret most situations.

I realize face blindness is considered by some to be a handicap....but I've often found it to be an advantage. I can tell a whole lot about a situation I'm walking into long before I can actually see what's happening. I can also tell when a normal person is lying by their voice. Unfortunately this doesn't really work with psychopaths 'cause their voices don't change....but other than them, it works pretty good.

I can relate to this as well. I'm really bad with remembering faces, and even more-so with names. Hearing what is being said, and how truly guides me through most interactions - along with the facial expressions in that moment. But it is mostly subconscious for me, and something I'd like to become more aware of. With psychopaths I tend to notice certain sounds that are always 'lacking' from the communication, although it definitely takes more time to do so, as some part of me still tries to rationalize the truth away about such people and convince myself they are normal.

I told her that on one hand I see preservation of life as noble, but on the other hand, I respect the spider's right to learn from getting hurt or killed (believing in reincarnation helps) and there lies the paradox. Since a spider cannot ask for help in any way that I would be able to discern, I have no way of knowing what it would want to do and I also have no way of knowing what is in its best interest.

It seems to me, that 2D creatures by default, want to survive. While a spider may not be able to 'ask for help' I have always assumed that what it wants is to continue living. Everything a spider ever does, that I have seen, is an effort to maintain it's living state, and reproduce. Surely it is not asking to be killed? Can 2nd density creatures even be pathological in such ways? Fwiw, I'm 50/50 in actual practice of killing/versus saving spiders (in most cases, I just ignore them totally and appreciate the bug control), but it does raise some interesting questions, especially since your daughter felt compelled to save it's life. An interesting microcosm.

When people are being hurt by others, their choices of Being, of feeling a certain way or doing certain things, are taken away, leaving behind only painful reactive aspects of their lives. As a result, their free will suffers and the Free Will as the principle of the world's existence suffers as well. It is a duty of an STO being to act against it in whatever way possble, restoring choice and the Free Will.

Hildegarda is on the right track, IMO. The issue is "asking." We all know a lot of situations where people appear to be "asking" but are not... it's just a game or manipulation. They ask with their words but not with their actions. By the same token there must be situations where people do not ask with words, but rather with actions; and maybe some of those actions that are true asking for help are, on the surface, self-destructive?

This is also how I see it.

On the subject of interfering with someone's lessons or karma, I don't really think we can know that, at least not in most situations, and it likely isn't our job to do so either.
As I see it, we can probably only act with the situation itself, as it is presented to us, as we don't have access to the higher dynamics involved within it. That isn't to say that we can't learn with a given situation or individual. I think that if we have further data, if for example a situation becomes repetitive as in an individual consistently exhibiting the same destructive pattern, we'll be able to make different choices in how to act, assuming non action to be considered an action as well.

***

In other words, we shouldn't try to second-guess the universe and try to figure out what anyone is or is not "meant" to experience. If something CAN happen, we can be sure it is "meant" to happen. If something truly isn't meant to be, how could it be? And vice versa - if it's not meant to be, we can bet that there isn't an iota of a chance that it will be. So if there is a choice, then that choice is itself "meant to be", and whatever we choose is exactly the "right" thing as far as the universe is concerned. Although it may not be the right thing as far as our soul is concerned. So it seems that we just need to externally consider the best we can and act from the heart, with respect to what is being Asked for and what is in us to do, as best as we can tell.

This (as well as what Approaching Infinity and others have said) makes a lot of sense to me. And, if it is our goal to be truly STO in our interactions, all we can really do is to take advantage of the opportunities that present themselves to the best of our ability. If in hindsight a conclusion is made that the 'help' was 'interference,' well, then that can only serve to further one studies in the progression from an STS to an STO mindset. Or so I'm thinking.

The same goes for acts of violence. When I stop someone from hurting someone else, I'm definitely interfering with the attacker's free will....yet I feel the most deep seeded obligation to do so.

When there is an attacker and a victim, it is my understanding that the attacker is violating the victim's free will, therefore by preventing the attacker from hurting someone I think that you will be defending the victim's free will.

This particular type situation I still get really stuck on, and I have very little experience to draw upon. When is a victim a victim? I know there are obvious examples - the recent Flotilla crisis comes to mind, and obviously the BP scandal. But when I try to mix free will in with it I always get confused. Everyone chooses to be where they are, for the most part, if not always. Very rarely is one physically prevented from simply "walking somewhere else." So if I see an attack that clearly does not involve me, but I stumble upon, I am very wary about interfering unless it is super obvious that someone is being overpowered and calling for help, etc. And sometimes they are able to call for help, but don't. I guess it all just comes back to observing the situation as objectively as possible in the moment, and making the right call as best as you can. But I spend a lot of time thinking about scenarios like that, and trying to reconcile the "free-will" of the "victim" in such cases.

 

[Argonaut]

If there are two forces, life and creativity vs death and entrophy, would it not make sense ,that when in doubt ,choose the action that supports life and creativity?

I think this is a good general approach, although there are still situations where it may not apply.

In other words, we shouldn't try to second-guess the universe and try to figure out what anyone is or is not "meant" to experience. If something CAN happen, we can be sure it is "meant" to happen. If something truly isn't meant to be, how could it be? And vice versa - if it's not meant to be, we can bet that there isn't an iota of a chance that it will be. So if there is a choice, then that choice is itself "meant to be", and whatever we choose is exactly the "right" thing as far as the universe is concerned. Although it may not be the right thing as far as our soul is concerned. So it seems that we just need to externally consider the best we can and act from the heart, with respect to what is being Asked for and what is in us to do, as best as we can tell.

This makes total sense to me. It's easy to over-analyze this stuff, examining a million "what ifs." But we can't know all the answers for other people, only for ourselves. They have lessons and karma to work out, but so do we. The lessons and karma of others aren't known to us, so they shouldn't even enter the equation. As SAO said, for all we know, our intervention could be PART of their karma and lessons. So the key isn't about determining the needs of another - it's determining what is TRULY being asked for by the people involved. And when it comes to someone endeavoring to victimize another, or even harming themselves if they're not in their right mind... On the highest level I think these people are asking to be stopped. If a lie asks for the truth, then wouldn't an act of harm be asking for an intervention?

 

[Guardian]

Hi Guardian (your nickname fits you :))

Thanx, that's kinda why I picked it....truth in advertising ;D

Well I guess you were doing your job pretty good! I think such jobs really fit your nature then. Maybe that's why some policemen or people in murder investigations really like their jobs, because it fits their nature as well, like maybe mentioned here:

You know what's funny? I hang out with a lot of other folks who consider themselves "Guardians" too, we work various projects and events together ...and NONE of us are cops

You'd think at least a few of us would be...we've got quite a few EMTs and Rescue Squad folks.....but no law enforcement officers of any kind. I've always thought that was kinda odd.

 

[Oxajil]

Thanx, that's kinda why I picked it....truth in advertising ;D

:D

Well I guess you were doing your job pretty good! I think such jobs really fit your nature then. Maybe that's why some policemen or people in murder investigations really like their jobs, because it fits their nature as well, like maybe mentioned here:

You know what's funny? I hang out with a lot of other folks who consider themselves "Guardians" too, we work various projects and events together ...and NONE of us are cops

You'd think at least a few of us would be...we've got quite a few EMTs and Rescue Squad folks.....but no law enforcement officers of any kind. I've always thought that was kinda odd.

Maybe because some cops (talking about the sincere) are more drawn to going after the bad guy (danger involved) or help people where there is some adrenaline involved and/or sense of danger, rather than just helping people in a non-action/danger way. Or maybe not. Just a thought, fwiw.

 

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

This makes total sense to me. It's easy to over-analyze this stuff, examining a million "what ifs." But we can't know all the answers for other people, only for ourselves. They have lessons and karma to work out, but so do we. The lessons and karma of others aren't known to us, so they shouldn't even enter the equation. As SAO said, for all we know, our intervention could be PART of their karma and lessons. So the key isn't about determining the needs of another - it's determining what is TRULY being asked for by the people involved. And when it comes to someone endeavoring to victimize another, or even harming themselves if they're not in their right mind... On the highest level I think these people are asking to be stopped. If a lie asks for the truth, then wouldn't an act of harm be asking for an intervention?

I suspect that once a planet is geared towards STO, people in need of negative experiences due to karma or some other reason just won't incarnate here anymore, and will look for another place that is likely to provide said experience. So in the context of creating a new world, the issue of negative people might even go away naturally over time. And if someone does need a negative experience (and as you said, it's not something we could know at our level), it doesn't mean we should be the ones to provide it as that would make us STS and ensure that our world continues to be suitable for negative-oriented incarnations and experiences.

Since the universe can take care of itself, I'd think there is a proper environment for everyone, so no single place needs to accomodate everybody, and there is no obligation on us to give people their STS experiences and karmic lessons - they can get them elsewhere, or from someone else. It's funny when you think about it - if someone needs to get punched in the face because of karma, the person who does the punching will themselves get karma even though they are just fulfilling the karmic lesson of the other person. So it's like you're just passing your karma along. Maybe it's like energy and can't be created/destroyed but just passed around? It also could be one reason why the C's say STS is necessary for STO to exist - if you needed to be punched in the face and everybody in the universe was STO and wasn't going to do it, what then? It seems that "bad guys" are needed, and it also means that if someone needs a negative experience and we provide them with it, despite the fact that this is their karma, we become bad guys ourselves. And since there is no limit to bad guys in the universe, there is no need for us to fulfill that role, osit.

I agree that we need to see what is truly being asked for, and the 2nd half of that equation is to give what is in line with our nature. And if we can't clearly see what is being Asked for, we still have that 2nd half to help guide us - as EmeraldHope said, strive for an action to support life and creativity and truth. Sometimes that comes back to bite us, but at least we know we did the best we could under the circumstances and acted in line with who we are.

 

[Guardian]

I can relate to this as well. I'm really bad with remembering faces, and even more-so with names. Hearing what is being said, and how truly guides me through most interactions - along with the facial expressions in that moment. But it is mostly subconscious for me, and something I'd like to become more aware of.

There are several lists for people with "face blindness" of you're interested....but they mostly deal with how to deal with it. Some estimates say 1 in 50 people are face blind to some extent and are much more dependent on their hearing than their sight for identification.

I'm curious Jason, do you happen to be Rh negative? I once asked about face blindness on a list of Rh neg people, and about 1 in 3 said they were face blind to some degree (I have a link to an on-line test somewhere) That's soooo much higher than the "1 in 50" average that I've often wondered if it's a common genetic trait among Rh neg people?

With psychopaths I tend to notice certain sounds that are always 'lacking' from the communication, although it definitely takes more time to do so,

Exactly! It's how their voices DON'T change in certain circumstances that gives them away sometimes...but you have to have time to interact with them before you can tell if they're talking like TV actors.

There's another weird "tell" too ...say someone falls or gets hurt, and they ask "Are you alright?" Their body language shows concern, but they sound almost happy....like when you give someone something. It's bizarre, but I bet you know what I mean?

as some part of me still tries to rationalize the truth away about such people and convince myself they are normal.

I used to do that...long ago, but I got over it pretty quick. When the sound that comes out of a person's mouth doesn't match words they're saying...bye bye.

It seems to me, that 2D creatures by default, want to survive. While a spider may not be able to 'ask for help' I have always assumed that what it wants is to continue living.

Yup! I totally agree on that one...helping 2D critters is a gimme in the morals and values department. :)

 

[Argonaut]

I suspect that once a planet is geared towards STO, people in need of negative experiences due to karma or some other reason just won't incarnate here anymore, and will look for another place that is likely to provide said experience. So in the context of creating a new world, the issue of negative people might even go away naturally over time. And if someone does need a negative experience (and as you said, it's not something we could know at our level), it doesn't mean we should be the ones to provide it as that would make us STS and ensure that our world continues to be suitable for negative-oriented incarnations and experiences.

Since the universe can take care of itself, I'd think there is a proper environment for everyone, so no single place needs to accomodate everybody, and there is no obligation on us to give people their STS experiences and karmic lessons - they can get them elsewhere, or from someone else.

I agree completely!

[quote author=SAO]
It's funny when you think about it - if someone needs to get punched in the face because of karma, the person who does the punching will themselves get karma even though they are just fulfilling the karmic lesson of the other person. So it's like you're just passing your karma along. Maybe it's like energy and can't be created/destroyed but just passed around?
[/quote]

I've actually heard this used as an argument against the concept of karma. But it doesn't really invalidate the idea - unless one is talking about the fluffy New Age perspective, where evil is an illusion which will be eradicated someday. In light of the fact that STS belongs in the Cosmos and isn't going away, the endless cycle of karma makes perfect sense. Like you said above, if Earth becomes STO-oriented, those needing negative experiences will simply incarnate elsewhere.

[quote author=SAO]
It also could be one reason why the C's say STS is necessary for STO to exist - if you needed to be punched in the face and everybody in the universe was STO and wasn't going to do it, what then?
[/quote]

In many ways, it's true that STO exists as a response to STS (and vice versa). Not only that, but without STS would there BE a Universe for all the STO folks to exist in? :)

[quote author=SAO]
It seems that "bad guys" are needed, and it also means that if someone needs a negative experience and we provide them with it, despite the fact that this is their karma, we become bad guys ourselves. And since there is no limit to bad guys in the universe, there is no need for us to fulfill that role, osit.
[/quote]

Good point. To stand by and allow someone to be harmed against their will is to be complicit, so that's never an STO option. And if we're present, our choices are part of whatever is "supposed" to happen.

[quote author=SAO]
I agree that we need to see what is truly being asked for, and the 2nd half of that equation is to give what is in line with our nature. And if we can't clearly see what is being Asked for, we still have that 2nd half to help guide us - as EmeraldHope said, strive for an action to support life and creativity and truth. Sometimes that comes back to bite us, but at least we know we did the best we could under the circumstances and acted in line with who we are.
[/quote]

Exactly - the situation will pan out however it pans out. But as long as we're there, our choices should align with our effort to become STO candidates. I also agree with what Jason brought up about "thin slicing." In some ways we might be "over-intellectualizing" this issue. In the heat of the moment we probably wouldn't stand there and "reason out" logically what to do. We'd take action intuitively, based on our level of Being. If we DID stand there and try to approach it with logic it may short-circuit the process. It might also be a wrong use of centers - trying to "feel" and "intuit" with the intellect. osit.

 

[ocean59]

I'm curious Jason, do you happen to be Rh negative?

I'm either A- or AB-, cannot remember which off the top of my head. I don't think I have the Rh factor. I realize the importance of this information, in relation to diet, and now that I'm making such large strides in that direction, I really need to go test it again and write it down this time. I'll go look for a cheap kit on the net today.

Their body language shows concern, but they sound almost happy....like when you give someone something. It's bizarre, but I bet you know what I mean?

Oh yes. In some ways it's getting harder for me to identify, because I've tried so hard to simply not interact with such people, that I don't get much practice these days other than on the nets. A blessing and a curse I guess? I'm going to stick with blessing. :)

as some part of me still tries to rationalize the truth away about such people and convince myself they are normal.

I used to do that...long ago, but I got over it pretty quick. When the sound that comes out of a person's mouth doesn't match words they're saying...bye bye.

I also think that perhaps a lot of my identification occurs on the subconscious level, perhaps I do't give myself enough credit in this arena. When I think about it, I've always been pretty good at showing the door to pathological inidividuals quite quickly, I just never gave much conscious thought to it until recently.

 

[Guardian]

I'm either A- or AB-, cannot remember which off the top of my head. I don't think I have the Rh factor.

The "-" part means you don't have the Rh factor, and that doesn't surprise me....it appears many people who are "face blind" (I prefer "audio enhanced" ;)) are.

I realize the importance of this information, in relation to diet, and now that I'm making such large strides in that direction,

Me too... I was going to post an Rh neg survey type thread....then I got distracted.

I think not having those proteins on the surface of our blood cells makes a LOT of difference physically. Are you a poster child for drug contraindications too?

I really need to go test it again and write it down this time. I'll go look for a cheap kit on the net today.

If you donate blood to the Red Cross, they'll give you your type for free....well... in exchange for your blood ;)

Oh yes. In some ways it's getting harder for me to identify, because I've tried so hard to simply not interact with such people, that I don't get much practice these days other than on the nets.

I still get wayyyy more practice than I want ..maybe if I stop inviting psycho's to move in next door??

A blessing and a curse I guess?

I think that's all a matter of perspective.

I'm going to stick with blessing. :)

Great perspective ;)

I also think that perhaps a lot of my identification occurs on the subconscious level, perhaps I do't give myself enough credit in this arena. When I think about it, I've always been pretty good at showing the door to pathological inidividuals quite quickly, I just never gave much conscious thought to it until recently.

Next time you get that feeling, pay attention to what you're hearing...I bet the words don't match the emotional tones, or lack thereof.

 

[Sonrisa]

This is an amazing discussion!

I had an experience 3 days ago that I am still feeling the repercussions of, very relevant to this discussion. I would appreciate any observations you all might have.

On Monday, I saw my friend Mila (who is the building security guard) at work, and asked her how she was doing, how her weekend was. She launched into a description of how horrible she felt (pressure on the chest, irregular heartbeat,, lightheaded, nauseous), and I was aghast! I told her it sounded very much like she was having a heart attack, and she should go to the Emergency room ASAP! She said she didn't want to, she refused, nobody would care if she died. I talked to her for about 30 minutes, got another coworker to talk to her and try to convince her to let me drive her to the hospital, to no avail. She refused to go. (she is the security guard at my building, and neither of the other security guards there could convince her to go, either.)

I told her I was going to keep checking in her, and asked my coworker to alternate with to keep checking on her, and trying to convince her to let me take her to the hospital. Nobody else in my office appeared to care what was going on with her.

Finally, after about two hours, when I had briefly left the office, Mila told my coworker to call me, and that she would allow me to take her to the hospital. So I rushed back - and as soon as I arrived to drive her to the ER, she said she wanted to eat lunch first, she was hungry. I got angry, and told her she was jerking me around, and that she was NOT going to eat lunch, she was going to the ER, because she was probably having a heart attack! I told her to take her lunch with her and eat on the way if she insisted.

I got her to the hospital, she WAS having a heart attack, and got lots of tests. She finally gave me the phone number of her daughter and her landlord (she refused to give me the info to call them earlier), who showed up about an hour later at the hospital - and I left.

She stayed home from work on Tuesday, and was back on Wednesday. I asked her how she was doing on Wednesday morning, and launched into a nonstop list of all the symptoms she had of feeling terrible again. I asked if she had called her doctor back (the answer was NO!!!) I asked her if she was taking the medication they had given her (the answer to that was also NO!!!) .

I lost my temper with her, and told her I was not going to ask her again about how she was doing or if she was taking her medication, because she was not taking care of herself, and didn't seem to care if she dropped dead. I walked away and went back to my office, and I have told her, in the last 2 days since ( when she has tried to corner me to talk to me) that I am really annoyed at her, and don't want to talk to her about it just yet.

So, was I acting in an STS fashion by basically forcing her to go to the hospital in the first place, when she had all the symptoms of a serious heart attack? Was I out of line by losing my temper with her when she came back to work ( her choice) , and refusing to talk to her about it? I told her today that I would talk to her when I'm ready, but I'm not, yet. And I feel, now, like I was seriously manipulated by her throughout this whole thing.

Yes, she may have died if I didn't take her to the hospital on Monday; on the other hand, she's not acting, now, like she values
her own life enough to do what her doctors told her to do to get better. And I do NOT have the energy to listen to her complain about how awful she feels if she won't do what's necessary to get well.

Sorry for the long sad story. But your thoughts and comments would be appreciated.

Sonrisa