Introduction

[Loud John]

ANA

SuperModerator

Posts: 1,788

Re: Introduction
« Reply #116 on: Today at 07:20:23 AM »QuoteQuote from: Loud John on Yesterday at 09:58:37 PM
Quote from: Truth Seeker
Perhaps that's the real issue? When we become identified with anything, it keeps us living in illusion and unable to see the crux of the matter. Because of your identification with past wounds that have been afflicted through your own past, you view the world in black and white terms - persecuted and persecutor. The inability to discern - in this case to always see yourself as the victim - is a refusal to take responsibility for your own past and current thinking that keeps you there. This denial of responsibility also keeps you comfortable as it reflects your own upbringing and the mechanisms developed that helped a small child survive. The problem comes when one grows up and finds that those same mechanisms no longer work yet are applied - projected - onto any situation that allows you to continue playing the role of victim. This keeps one chasing their tail so to speak. This can also be applied to experiences relating to high strangeness.
Yes this sure seems to be happening in the Jean and Marie situation on SOTT right now.

What do you mean?
I mean that in this sutuation when SOTT (you can insert the name) becomes identified with anything (perhaps Marie) it keeps them living in illusion and unable to see the crux of the matter. Because of their identification with past wounds that have been inflicted through their own past, they see theirself as the victim - is a refusal to take responsibility (Jean is a psycohpath) for their own past and current thinking. The problem comes when they grow up and find that those same mechanisms no longer work yet are applied - projected - onto the french police that allow them to continue playing the role of victim. This keeps them chasing their tail so to speak and keeps them from doing what they do best as well as perhaps feeding 4th density STS with their energy.

 

[Al Today]

No, methinks we are not equal.

the relevance/importance of this is?

No relevance to your situation. I was replying to someone else.

 

[Al Today]

Suggesting that MoskoeOne was pleased to find this forum and would have initially felt to be among equals, equals in thoughts, ideas, knowledge, intellect. However, as AI Today explained, due to the paths we are on, specific to the learning requirements of the individual and therefore unequal to another path, we are not equals (my interpretation).

The interpretation is correct. All here are different in lessons learned and to be learned. One must realize where they "fit" and follow their own path.

 

[truth seeker]

I mean that in this sutuation when SOTT (you can insert the name) becomes identified with anything (perhaps Marie) it keeps them living in illusion and unable to see the crux of the matter. Because of their identification with past wounds that have been inflicted through their own past, they see theirself as the victim - is a refusal to take responsibility (Jean is a psycohpath) for their own past and current thinking. The problem comes when they grow up and find that those same mechanisms no longer work yet are applied - projected - onto the french police that allow them to continue playing the role of victim. This keeps them chasing their tail so to speak and keeps them from doing what they do best as well as perhaps feeding 4th density STS with their energy.

You seem to be confusing at least two concepts here. Have you read all of the information regarding this case?

Perhaps you may want to see how the quote above applies to you:

In this situation when LJ becomes identified with anything (perhaps his/her own sense of unworthiness) it keeps you living in the illusion and unable to see the crux of the matter. Because of lJ's identification with past wounds that have been inflicted in his/her own past, he/she sees him/herself as the victim - is a refusal to take responsibility for his/her past and current thinking. Thr problem comes when he/she grows up and finds that those same mechanisms no longer work yet are applied - projected - onto everyone he/she comes into contact with that allows LJ to continue playing the role of victim. This keeps LJ chasing his/her own tail so to speak and keeps them in a constants state of reaction whenever anything said gets a little too close to the truth and disturbs their comfort zone.

You've been a member here since 2008 and yet you still remain confused as to where the truth lies in the situation referenced and that this is a research forum? Many of your posts seem to make little sense as they seem to continuously miss the crux of the matter and I'm not sure what if anything can be done to assist you here, especially since you seem to have shown little interest in networking and now to find out reading. So I'll just genuinely ask, is there anything that interests you about this forum and why?

 

[luke wilson]

Happyville and MoskoeOne in order to have a proper and clear communication, please do take some time to quote the authors you are adressing in your posts. Thanks.

I'm unsure what you mean here:

-more words?
-just repeating their name in addition to where its written in the quote?
-Longer quotes to put it in clearer context?
-some other issue that is none of the above?

I think Ana means using the quotation boxes... You know like the box above... OSIT. It makes it easier for others to follow what is going on.

 

[Happyville]

No, methinks we are not equal.

That is interesting... Although it seems to be going off on another tangent from this thread - I am curious as to what you mean by this?

I believe there is a similar theme that runs in Altas Shrugged, which seems to be a bible of sorts for people that believe that those that work harder or smarter get to a different point in life than people who are less talented or downright lazy!

Please clarify?

It seemed evident to me, in the context of a response to what luke.wilson wrote. In fact, AI Today even explained it. Perhaps you are reading too much into the word "equal".

To play back for you, L.W wrote:

Take MoskoeOne for example,

According to his profile overview he is brand new to the forum. Now he is displaying what he thinks. Ideas that up to now have held great value to him, after all, through this ideas, his perceived identity, he found this forum. A place where from outside, he thought, finally, a place where I can fit. Be amongst equals...

Suggesting that MoskoeOne was pleased to find this forum and would have initially felt to be among equals, equals in thoughts, ideas, knowledge, intellect. However, as AI Today explained, due to the paths we are on, specific to the learning requirements of the individual and therefore unequal to another path, we are not equals (my interpretation).

Therefore, the varying degrees of maturity in our thinking, intellect, knowledge, awareness make us unequal. This is not to say the quality of one individual is greater than another, but the quality on one's contributions could certainly be greater than another.

Perhaps, you were too focused on trying to find things wrong with what is going on here that you are missing important aspects.

It is interesting that you feel this "pissing match" (and I believe you meant pissing match and your later correction wasn't genuine) and "side conversations", as you put it, are fruitless. You don't see how helping people see their own programs or discussing different perspectives as bearing fruit?

It is also interesting that you refer to the discussion as "side conversations" and show a concern for going off topic. In fact, these conversations are of primary importance.

There's a certain type of person I've encountered who are so rules focused that they have great difficulty when things go outside of the expected structure and focus on the aberation and not the substance. You remind me of this inflexible type. In this case, the structure would be traditional forum protocol to ensure a thread stays on topic. Although we generally adhere to this protocol, there are specific circumstances when a greater good requires divergence from the norm.

A thread usually starts in the direction of the author's intent, but if issues emerge that are ultimately of greater value, addressing them takes precedence and the focus of the thread shifts.

Unfortunately, it is often difficult to point out a program to someone, especially when they have an investment in their initial message.
While programs get pointed out to the author, some members (usually newer ones or lurkers) become uncomfortable because they percieve unfairness and feel they need to jump into the dialogue to protect the author of the thread. Unfortunately, their perception is actually identification with a wound they themselves carry. Perhaps this is happening with you?

This is a research forum with a twist, which is that we have also come together to work on ourselves through the mirror of the network. We aren't here to debate and arguing is rarely tolerated.

I hope you can see the difference between discussing different points of view and arguing. It is usually the emotional investment one has in their ideas that leads to arguing.
For someone who has been on this forum for a while, you are coming across as being argumentative and demanding and should know better. As well, you are showing evidence of narrow thinking.

obyvatel pointed out that you have levelled some serious accusations against the forum and asked you to back them up. I suggest you put your effort into rereading all of your comments, try to see them from a perspective other than your own if you can, and see if you can learn something about yourself. But before that, you should either justify those accusations or correct the record.

Whoa...

1. Equal: At a complete loss regarding the "we are not equal" comment? - no further ahead on that!

2. Obyvatel ... I was only ever concerned about 10,000 words... Which I believe was somewhat resolved at best or stalled at worst since the comments in question. Something else you are concerned about?

3. Pissing match v. Difference of opinion ... Dude, I don't really know which way around the tree you want me to go - we get to the other side... the same place ?

4. Arguing... The only thing worse than arguing is arguing about arguing! - Incidentally there are 2 needed to argue but I don't want to argue about that point ok?

5. Investment? ... A bad one on my part - I think!

modified for clarity.

 

[Happyville]

I mean that in this sutuation when SOTT (you can insert the name) becomes identified with anything (perhaps Marie) it keeps them living in illusion and unable to see the crux of the matter. Because of their identification with past wounds that have been inflicted through their own past, they see theirself as the victim - is a refusal to take responsibility (Jean is a psycohpath) for their own past and current thinking. The problem comes when they grow up and find that those same mechanisms no longer work yet are applied - projected - onto the french police that allow them to continue playing the role of victim. This keeps them chasing their tail so to speak and keeps them from doing what they do best as well as perhaps feeding 4th density STS with their energy.

You seem to be confusing at least two concepts here. Have you read all of the information regarding this case?

Perhaps you may want to see how the quote above applies to you:

In this situation when LJ becomes identified with anything (perhaps his/her own sense of unworthiness) it keeps you living in the illusion and unable to see the crux of the matter. Because of lJ's identification with past wounds that have been inflicted in his/her own past, he/she sees him/herself as the victim - is a refusal to take responsibility for his/her past and current thinking. Thr problem comes when he/she grows up and finds that those same mechanisms no longer work yet are applied - projected - onto everyone he/she comes into contact with that allows LJ to continue playing the role of victim. This keeps LJ chasing his/her own tail so to speak and keeps them in a constants state of reaction whenever anything said gets a little too close to the truth and disturbs their comfort zone.

You've been a member here since 2008 and yet you still remain confused as to where the truth lies in the situation referenced and that this is a research forum? Many of your posts seem to make little sense as they seem to continuously miss the crux of the matter and I'm not sure what if anything can be done to assist you here, especially since you seem to have shown little interest in networking and now to find out reading. So I'll just genuinely ask, is there anything that interests you about this forum and why?

Truth Seeker... Is is possible that LJ was modeling? Using a concept from the forum to see if the concept holds water in another context??? In my line of work I understand modeling - so I am wondering if LJ was testing a concept...

You seem very emotional about it however... I think perhaps you might give the above line of thinking a thought before jumping to conclusions... Just a thought!

Perhaps LJ is like others here that don't yet know what is and is not taboo in the forum!

 

[luke wilson]

For those having problems with how to insert quotes... Please refer to:


How to insert quotes

 

[truth seeker]

I find your timing interesting, Happyville...

4. Arguing... The only thing worse than arguing is arguing about arguing! - Incidentally there are 2 needed to argue but I don't want to argue about that point ok?

I thought we were having a discussion? Perhaps it's you who is arguing? Or does that mean that you're done with this point but want to argue about others?

So I'll just genuinely ask, is there anything that interests you about this forum and why?

You may also want to consider what I wrote to Loud John in my post, particularly the question above.

In reference to your post above, no, I'm not emotional at all but you seem to be. In fact, quite a few of your posts in this thread and others have an emotional flavor to them.

 

[Loud John]

Truth seeker wrote: You seem to be confusing at least two concepts here. Have you read all of the information regarding this case?

I must say I do not see the two concepts you speak of.
I have read all of the information posted on Sott that I could find.

Truth seeker wrote: This keeps LJ chasing his/her own tail so to speak and keeps them in a constant state of reaction whenever anything said gets a little too close to the truth and disturbs their comfort zone.

This can definately apply to me, the question is can it apply to others? As well are their people here at sott like yourself that it does not apply to?
Are there men and women you know that have removed ALL of their SELF IMPORTANCE therefore no longer have this problem or is it a sliding scale that perhaps could manifest in anyone just less and less as one advances along the curve of learning?

Truth seeking wrote: You've been a member here since 2008 and yet you still remain confused as to where the truth lies in the situation referenced and that this is a research forum?

Can you enlighten me as to the truth you speak of?
If this is a research forum I am confused as it appears to participate, one must toe a certain line, any deviation or disagreement is met with a religious reaction.

Truth seeker wrote: I"m not sure what if anything can be done to assist you here, especially since you seem to have shown little interest in networking and now to find out reading.

I do not understand the phrase "and now to find out reading"
Could you give me your definition of "networking"

Truth seeker wrote: So I"ll just genuinely ask is there anything that interests you about this forum and why?

I will have to wait for a response to this post before I could answer that question genuinely.

 

[Gonzo]

I believe you are being asked to use the quote function by clicking the "Quote" link beside a post whenever you wish to quote someone.

This method indents the quotation and embeds the author's name and link to the post you are quoting.

More information on the quote fucntion and other forum techniques is available by clicking the help link in the top navigational bar.

A direct link to help on quoting posts is http://wiki.simplemachines.org/smf/Posting/english#Quoting_a_Post

Gonzo

Edit: sorry, didn't notice the earlier post on quoting for some odd reason. All of a sudden my page refreshed with several more posts than I saw a mere minute earlier.

 

[truth seeker]

Truth seeker wrote: So I"ll just genuinely ask is there anything that interests you about this forum and why?

I will have to wait for a response to this post before I could answer that question genuinely.

You may want to take a look at the the forum guidelines.

http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,9553.msg69187.html#msg69187

If you haven't done so already, read all of the links given in the Sott articles on the subject, this will give you the backstory and perhaps clarify.

 

[anart]

There is so much emotional thinking going on in this thread that it would be like cleaning the Augean stables to go through each post and point it out.

MoskoeOne, your posts are quite confusing. You appear to be commenting on connections that do not exist and it would be greatly appreciated if you would do some back ground reading on the material on which this forum is based before posting further. Also, please read the forum guidelines in their entirety.

Happyville, you seem to have developed a habit of poking the forum with a stick of late. It's bizarre to watch. You appear to be taking everything that is written personally and then arguing about it for argument's sake. Enough is really enough. This is not how this forum operates and if you are this dissatisfied with what goes on here, then perhaps it's time to find somewhere else to spend your time. I think this will be unfortunate, but, obviously there is an issue here.

LoudJohn - you are engaging in selection and substitution of data across the board. There is no comparison between what has been pointed out to you regarding identification and Sott's actions regarding "Marie" and "Jean". There are lies and there is truth and SoTT is standing up very strongly for truth, that is all. Identification does not enter the equation. The fact that this is lost on you indicates that your emotions are running your thinking, or that you lack a basic understanding of the concept of Identification. Regarding the self-importance and emotional reactions when someone hits too close to the bone, of course it applies to everyone, we're all human. The point is to learn to not allow it to direct one's actions. You also are attacking the forum, resorting to derogatory comments when there is no basis for them. Please re-read the forum guidelines. If you cannot abide by them, then please go elsewhere.

If everyone could please - if at all possible - work on remembering the Law of Three, it would be a great help. There is right, there is wrong and there is the particular situation which determines which is which. Please also understand that communicating with a lack of respect or arguing a point just because it feels good to do so is not allowed on this forum and posting privileges will be revoked if it continues.

It's really very simple, folks -this forum is here for a very particular purpose. If you're not interested in that, it's fine, just go elsewhere, but please don't expect to be able to act however you'd like and bend the forum to your expectations just because it's how you'd like it to be. There is a bigger picture here, and the signal is the point.

 

[Happyville]

I find your timing interesting, Happyville...

4. Arguing... The only thing worse than arguing is arguing about arguing! - Incidentally there are 2 needed to argue but I don't want to argue about that point ok?

I thought we were having a discussion? Perhaps it's you who is arguing? Or does that mean that you're done with this point but want to argue about others?

So I'll just genuinely ask, is there anything that interests you about this forum and why?

You may also want to consider what I wrote to Loud John in my post, particularly the question above.

In reference to your post above, no, I'm not emotional at all but you seem to be. In fact, quite a few of your posts in this thread and others have an emotional flavor to them.

Yes Truth Seeker, - I am like a square peg not fitting in to a round hole - there is a frustration for what I precive as "arguing about arguing" ( actually meant as a "light harted" remark - but I guess taken very seriously ) ... I believe I am not quite programed to see things as you do - no harm no foul I guess !

Certainly don't want to Spin my wheels for what ultimately seems to be of no benefit to me or the others on the forum. Perhaps would have been a better thing to say than "pissing match" - "spinning my wheels" maybe more "objective"?

Anyways... I have learned a few things here and thanks for your patience and pointing out we just are not birds of a feather!

Cheers and may we agree on Knowledge Protects!!

 

[SeekinTruth]

Happyville and LoudJohn have been acting like trolls and seem to just want to waste everyone's time and energy. Best not to feed the trolls if at all possible. The insinuations of "cult" are not too far away, huh? So we must be the only "cult" in the world that makes it so easy for people to leave, actually encouraging them to go elsewhere and even start their own websites/blogs/forums (or perhaps I should say "cults" since that seems to have become an all inclusive thing) if they don't like what we do here. What if we implemented a tax for leaving as I've learned is the case in Austria if you want to resign from the Christian religion? :P

Gonzo gave a very good summary of what Al Today meant about "equals," but I'd like to add sincerity to his list. There's definitely a flavor of lack of sincerity in Happyville and LoudJohn's posts, as well. They seem to have the stance that the Work related issues and "man being a machine" somehow doesn't apply to them, that perhaps they are "speshul." That's probably why they resonated with domwatts23's posts. Those were saturated with that same flavor of "speshulness."

LoudJohn asks what is considered networking. What we consider networking should be pretty obvious to two members of the forum that have been members for a few years. But then again, they've done very little, if any, networking the whole time, so maybe they have a different, "speshul," definition of networking, which they are also free to do as much as they please elsewhere. Why stick around a forum that they do not seem to resonate with at all?

As far as Happyville's comment about "what is and is not taboo in the forum," again has that flavor of insinuation/passive-aggressive swipes and insincerity. So hopefully, as anart and truth seeker have pretty much said all that needs to be said, we won't have to waste any more time and energy with their high noise, low to no signal posts. Read the forum guidelines and observe the interactions here and anyone can see what is and is not tolerated (i.e. "taboo" -- interesting choice of word, no covert passive-aggressive insinuation there, right?).