is my daughter an agent, psychopath or just a lonely soul in search of love?

[Stern]

Dear members,
it has taken me a very long time to turn to you now. I was a bit scared that I might be rejected for my thoughts. And I don't want to present myself as a victim. I know these are my learning experiences. And that
Let me report my problem. Maybe someone knows what to do.
The question I ask myself is: Who or what is my daughter? Is she a robot, a psychopath, an agent? Or is she simply a child who seeks love at any cost? Or are we victims of massive sts attacks? Or am I just a mother who hasn't given enough love to her child?
Since I can think, I have been a truth seeker. And until the day my daughter (now 10 years old) was born, I was a positive, happy person, enjoying my work and the man at my side whom I love. Please do not think of me now, I had no problems. Yes, but I had a good basic attitude towards life. What distinguished my life so far was my unshakable trust in life. My glass was always half full and I was always good at being an observer. I was pregnant, an uncomplicated pregnancy. And then my daughter was born.
Even during the birth I panicked. A real panic attack. It wasn't the kind of panic you get when you have birth pains without medication, but a panic for my life. It felt like I had made the biggest mistake of my life. It was always the words in my head: o, what just happened?
I knew something had happened and I can't say what. It was a nightmare.
I can't describe it any better. I had my daughter in my arms, and after the experience it was like a kind of heart wall between us. At first I thought it was postpartum depression, but I was neither sad nor did I reject it. It was more like a resignation followed by a previous panic. Breastfeeding did not work, of course. Yes, I loved her because I wanted to. I wanted to love her. I wanted to love her. I cared for her with love because I wanted to. And she made it easy for me. We had many wonderful experiences and I was very proud of her. She has a winning nature, is extremely smart and very pretty. She is very popular with others and most things are easy for her. She is imaginative and creative. She could speak and walk faster than others. She was smarter and prettier than others. What is there not to be proud of as a mother. She made it easy for me to be proud of her. But the invisible wall between us remained. Cuddling and emotional closeness were rare between us and when they were, they didn't feel honest. Only when she was feverish and sleeping in my arms, the wall of the heart was gone. . I only really noticed it when my second daughter was born and I experienced the feeling of unconditional love and joy.
At about 4 years of age she started to use her winning nature to gain advantages and attention. This has increased to such an extent that every second with her has become an effort. She needs attention every second. Her life is one big stage and she is the actress who constantly creates drama or something else.
She lies the whole day, about everything and everyone. This is almost pathological and sometimes she gets her lies mixed up because she has forgotten who she told when and what. There is of 10 minutes of conversation with her, maybe 2 minutes where she doesn't fuck with me.
All day long she forgets everything that is annoying for her, appointments, clothes, homework.
She never lets others finish and wants to dominate every situation. She always wants to have the power. Like a king. She has to be aware of everything, judge, control.
She thinks only about herself and her advantage. It is only important that she gets what she wants.
Social norms are unimportant to her like punctuality, combing her hair, washing herself, brushing her teeth.
She has no ambition whatsoever. (with nothing: what she can't do anyway, she won't do)
They don't care what tomorrow is. For her there is only and exclusively the NOW and her need. To satisfy this, she would do anything. ANYTHING.
There is not a second in being with me where she does not draw attention to herself and I have hardly any energy left. She lies to me all day long, trying to control me, trying to enforce her needs, trying to enforce her will. (Everywhere with every sentence: if you ask her how old she is, you can be sure she will lie and invent something. This goes on all day long. Also at school she lies all the time). She lies so much and thinks so much that she already believes what she tells herself. This is what makes it so convincingly presented through her
Give attention, take it away. At the end of the day, she always manages to make everything revolve around her again.
For a while I thought she might be a psychopath. But there were three points that spoke against it:
1. she showed real feelings in several situations, i.e. fear...panic...with physical symptoms like trembling, sweating
2. when I look into her eyes....then I see somehow despair
3. it was selected for a crystal from the Cs....
How can I help her? How can I protect my energies? She is 10, I cannot put her outside the door. And I don't want to give her up. But this way the situation will wear her and me down completely in the long run.
What I also noticed, as a side note: since she is in the world, only problematic doors open for me. I do not consider myself a victim. It just strikes me and I think I should mention it:
Although my husband and I love each other totally, we had a lot of fights, often because of the big daughter.
From my beloved work I changed to tiring new jobs.
From a well-filled account to a permanent minus account.
From the "trusting" to the fearful person
Reentered the church
Move into a church house, which stands on an old cemetery for children with - at least at the beginning - terrible energy
Unwanted pregnancies despite contraception like pill or coil
From totally healthy and powerful to permanent diseases
From helpful spiritual material (had just started to deal with the Cassiopaians, Hathors, lot of time for spirituel study etc., have had great psychological, spiritual training etc. ) to a psychopathic guru....(took me almost 2 years to wake up, the very, very hard way).
They were kind of gruelling years and I want to change direction. I have the feeling that my big daughter is a crucial point there and it is important to start there first.
What kind of impulses do you have? Does anyone have a special child like you? Can I help my daughter? How can I protect myself?
I want to change direction...!!! Absolutely! Time is running out. I am grateful for any food for thought. And I apologize already now if something is misunderstood due to the language barrier.
Sincerely, Stern


Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

 

[PlatonicSkeptic]

How can I help her?

what have you tried??

 

[Persephone]

Hi Sterni it seems that what you're living with your daughter is wearing you down.
It is difficult, just with the elements you give to get an idea. Your daughter's behaviour is very similar to that of children who have not had certain needs met in their early years and who have developed a compensatory behaviour.
Does the change in her behaviour coincide with the birth of your second daughter? Did the birth of your second child affect her character? Is she jealous of her sister? I say this because I have a sister younger than me and since my parents, especially my father, had a preference for me, even though they tried their best to be impartial, my sister became very difficult to live with, capricious, rebellious, liar, manipulative,... After I left my family and went to live abroad, she calmed down a bit, but still today, after many years, keeps being a quite neurotic person.
What is your husband's attitude towards your daughter? Have you tried to talk to her? To see a paediatrician/psychotherapist?
What struck me in your story is your birth experience. Did you try to go deeper into this event to understand what happened to you? There may be a key there.
I'm not a native English speaker either, so hope what I wrote is clear enough.

 

[seek10]

I am sorry @Stern for the troubles you are going through. It is always tough with children, as they tend to come with a package that triggers something with in us. It is a learning process for both parent and child. It is important to not to label quickly particularly about children.

you haven't mentioned of her violent behavior or insensitive behavior towards the animals or happy to hurting people like that. So, probably she is not psychopath.

It is normal for the elder one feel competitive when younger one's are born and how they react depends on many factors - parents way of handling, knowledge base etc. JBP says there is a imprinting period between 1 -3 years if one is not taught to listen to parents and discipline, it will be difficult later. I think that is only at level. But, parents can always enforce the restrictions. Enforcing restrictions can be very tough for parents who consider themselves loving and caring. So They have to identify what their own programs, acknowledge it and look for solutions based on acquired knowledge ( reading, experimenting etc.)

For protecting ourselves, we need to understand ourselves and how kids behave. Kids are smart and always experiment with get what they want ( attention seeking etc.) and quick in recognizing those spots.

Considering she is a tough kid. May be you want to read books like 'Sheeps Clothing' ( covert aggressive behavior) , 'Inside criminal mind' ( constant lying) to understand some possibilities. Ultimately she is your child. This can be long journey, be patient and keep reading and looking for answers.

Search the forum for behaviors, book names etc. There is ton of information related to human psychology ( good or bad behavior). Keep Looking and learning.

 

[Ina]

Perhaps she could become a famous drama actress. After all, while performing on stage, an actor acts an artificial truth which might be interpreted as a lie at the end of the day. Your daughter has above normal creative capacity and it comes out as self expression with understandable lack of discernment. I will stop now, but I will return to continue. One thing though, there is nothing wrong with you and nothing wrong with her.

 

[Stern]

Perhaps she could become a famous drama actress. After all, while performing on stage, an actor acts an artificial truth which might be interpreted as a lie at the end of the day. Your daughter has above normal creative capacity and it comes out as self expression with understandable lack of discernment. I will stop now, but I will return to continue. One thing though, there is nothing wrong with you and nothing wrong with her.

i had some tears of emotion over your words. i think you hit the nail on the head. We both feel wrong and guilty, but we haven't been able to find each other. Thank you so much, Ina.
Yeah, actress would be perfect. They said that about her in kindergarten.

 

[Stern]

I am sorry @Stern for the troubles you are going through. It is always tough with children, as they tend to come with a package that triggers something with in us. It is a learning process for both parent and child. It is important to not to label quickly particularly about children.

you haven't mentioned of her violent behavior or insensitive behavior towards the animals or happy to hurting people like that. So, probably she is not psychopath.

It is normal for the elder one feel competitive when younger one's are born and how they react depends on many factors - parents way of handling, knowledge base etc. JBP says there is a imprinting period between 1 -3 years if one is not taught to listen to parents and discipline, it will be difficult later. I think that is only at level. But, parents can always enforce the restrictions. Enforcing restrictions can be very tough for parents who consider themselves loving and caring. So They have to identify what their own programs, acknowledge it and look for solutions based on acquired knowledge ( reading, experimenting etc.)

For protecting ourselves, we need to understand ourselves and how kids behave. Kids are smart and always experiment with get what they want ( attention seeking etc.) and quick in recognizing those spots.

Considering she is a tough kid. May be you want to read books like 'Sheeps Clothing' ( covert aggressive behavior) , 'Inside criminal mind' ( constant lying) to understand some possibilities. Ultimately she is your child. This can be long journey, be patient and keep reading and looking for answers.

Search the forum for behaviors, book names etc. There is ton of information related to human psychology ( good or bad behavior). Keep Looking and learning.

immediately started looking for books. Thanks. I never had the idea until now. And unfortunately I discussed too much with her in years 1 to 3 instead of being clear.
About my own program: I grew up so anti-authoritarian myself and my mother spoke my mind. There were always only words, rarely actions. And since my child was "so much better than others", faster from development, smarter, prettier, I rested on it. She was the first grandchild of the family and everyone was delighted with her. And she was the typical princess. Also with my husband. She was the total star of the family. I wasn't a strict mother and let her get away with a lot.

Mostly out of guilt, because I didn't have the emotions towards her that I should have as a mother. I had an idea how a mother should feel and since it was not like that, the feeling, I tried to make up for it with "love".
And poof, she danced on our noses. She lied and fooled us all the time. My husband reacted with aggressive rejection. He has no desire to deal with her. He takes it personally. He is verbally often rough with her. And I felt even more guilty because of his negative attitude and tried to make up for it. Then everything got mixed up. I became even more inconsistent because I didn't want to hurt her little soul. My husband and I lost the ability to be a team. And our daughter her behavior became even more massive. It was a vicious circle of guilt on my part. But I think like you: better late than never and maybe all is not yet lost. I have been very consistent and clear for the last 8 months.
Thank you.

 

[Stern]

Hi Sterni it seems that what you're living with your daughter is wearing you down.
It is difficult, just with the elements you give to get an idea. Your daughter's behaviour is very similar to that of children who have not had certain needs met in their early years and who have developed a compensatory behaviour.
Does the change in her behaviour coincide with the birth of your second daughter? Did the birth of your second child affect her character? Is she jealous of her sister? I say this because I have a sister younger than me and since my parents, especially my father, had a preference for me, even though they tried their best to be impartial, my sister became very difficult to live with, capricious, rebellious, liar, manipulative,... After I left my family and went to live abroad, she calmed down a bit, but still today, after many years, keeps being a quite neurotic person.
What is your husband's attitude towards your daughter? Have you tried to talk to her? To see a paediatrician/psychotherapist?
What struck me in your story is your birth experience. Did you try to go deeper into this event to understand what happened to you? There may be a key there.
I'm not a native English speaker either, so hope what I wrote is clear enough.

Thank you very much. Well, her behavior started before my new pregnancy. It started when she came to kindergarten at the age of 3. She was 5 when her sister came. Her behavior then got a little worse, but it was no start. If she should be jealous, she compensates well. She is great to her sister, almost like a mother and her little sister adores her. With her she is very different. Sure, she always wants to be the boss. But her little sister stands under her and adores her. Of course she likes that very much. But I can never say anything negative here either. They are very attached to each other.
I tried to find out what happened at the birth. I've been to some channelers, all of them said that she never arrived on earth and still lives in the spirit on a near earth level where vampires and raw creatures live. She could not incarnate at birth.
I also did systemic family constellations, but nothing ever came out that could really explain this.
But what I always noticed was that when you hug them, it's like hugging a doll. A purely mechanical act. Do you know what I mean? Nothing comes across. Her kisses are sharp and cold, too. I always felt guilty about that....when I hug my little daughter or my husband it feels comfortably warm. With my big daughter it is like .... nothing comes across. Either she has built a wall and I feel that .... is like a robot. Therefore I have avoided physical contact.... for a long time which makes me feel guilty again. It's like a circle.....And it's time to break it.

 

[Stern]

what have you tried??

cool question: thank you. it made me think a lot.
the typical methods:
In case of positive behavior, pay attention and reward, ignore negative behavior.
Since a few weeks her behavior has also correct consequences. She has to do her duties first, then comes the pleasure. I monitor her more closely and uncover lies and tricks immediately.

Apart from that we have been to the alternative practitioner several times and once to a psychotherapy. I've done more without her: channelings, hooponopono, systemic constellations, energy sessions...and what you do when you come into contact with New Age and you don't know the Cs material yet.

 

[Stern]

Thank you for your impulses. It is difficult to discuss the subject with others. I can't go to another mom and say: hey, do you also feel nothing when your child takes you in his arms?....or hey, do you also feel guilty and therefore you were inconsistent? ....or hey, does your child also lie all day long?
If they would feel the same way, they would not admit it. So I am glad that I could reveal myself here.
For further ideas and impulses I am grateful.

 

[Ursus Minor]

Even during the birth I panicked. A real panic attack. It wasn't the kind of panic you get when you have birth pains without medication, but a panic for my life. It felt like I had made the biggest mistake of my life. It was always the words in my head: o, what just happened?
I knew something had happened and I can't say what. It was a nightmare.

Thank you Stern for sharing your story with us.

I'm afraid I have nothing much to offer on parenting but I was struck by your description above.

Did you have any strange or alienating feelings during pregnancy was well?
Are you aware of theories that suggest 'souls' may be choosing their parents beforehand?

Mothers could be unconsciously attracting disincarnated souls for a variety of reasons, one of them might be reworking a former relationship in another lifetime.

I tried to find out what happened at the birth. I've been to some channelers, all of them said that she never arrived on earth and still lives in the spirit on a near earth level where vampires and raw creatures live. She could not incarnate at birth.

I understand you've already tried different avenues to bring more clarity to your situation.

Apart from that we have been to the alternative practitioner several times and once to a psychotherapy. I've done more without her: channelings, hooponopono, systemic constellations, energy sessions..

My impression is that mothers (before and after birth) can almost develop extra-sensory perception regarding their young. I feel as if your panic at childbirth could have been an impulse from your unconscious regarding the scope of your task...

Your list of counselings shows that you have definitely left no stone unturned. Please keep us posted...

 

[Turgon]

Even during the birth I panicked. A real panic attack. It wasn't the kind of panic you get when you have birth pains without medication, but a panic for my life. It felt like I had made the biggest mistake of my life. It was always the words in my head: o, what just happened?
I knew something had happened and I can't say what. It was a nightmare.

It's possible these thoughts and feelings had an impact on your first daughter and what she's manifesting is a consequence of that. I was a pretty manipulative and unhappy child growing up. My mom was young when she had me, 20 years old, and the rest of the family didn't find out about it until after she gave birth. Of course, my mom says I was a welcome surprise but honestly, it was an unwanted pregnancy and deep down I felt it and as I look back, acted out that belief. Our relationship was always combative and tense and I never felt safe or secure with her.

Things are much different with my younger sister who has a more stable attachment and healthier relationship with our mom. Sometimes hindsight is 20/20 and we learn from the past and make different choices next time around. And I can only imagine how painful it would be for her to admit what she really felt all those decades ago, so I think that you being able to bring this up and at least acknowledge there might be something to the above written might help you to heal the past and reconcile your relationship with your daughter. If not today, then at least when she's older and has matured more in life. FWIW.

 

[PlatonicSkeptic]

My husband reacted with aggressive rejection. He has no desire to deal with her. He takes it personally. He is verbally often rough with her. And I felt even more guilty because of his negative attitude and tried to make up for it.

that's the opposite of what JBP recommends

but i have no idea how it is to be in this situation

 

[Michael B-C]

And until the day my daughter (now 10 years old) was born, I was a positive, happy person, enjoying my work and the man at my side whom I love. Please do not think of me now, I had no problems.

Even during the birth I panicked. A real panic attack. It wasn't the kind of panic you get when you have birth pains without medication, but a panic for my life. It felt like I had made the biggest mistake of my life. It was always the words in my head: o, what just happened?
I knew something had happened and I can't say what. It was a nightmare.

About my own program: I grew up so anti-authoritarian myself and my mother spoke my mind. There were always only words, rarely actions. And since my child was "so much better than others", faster from development, smarter, prettier, I rested on it. She was the first grandchild of the family and everyone was delighted with her. And she was the typical princess. Also with my husband. She was the total star of the family. I wasn't a strict mother and let her get away with a lot.

Mostly out of guilt, because I didn't have the emotions towards her that I should have as a mother. I had an idea how a mother should feel and since it was not like that, the feeling, I tried to make up for it with "love".

And I felt even more guilty because of his negative attitude and tried to make up for it. Then everything got mixed up. I became even more inconsistent because I didn't want to hurt her little soul. My husband and I lost the ability to be a team. And our daughter her behavior became even more massive. It was a vicious circle of guilt on my part.

Well, her behavior started before my new pregnancy. It started when she came to kindergarten at the age of 3.

In case of positive behavior, pay attention and reward, ignore negative behavior.

I can't go to another mom and say: hey, do you also feel nothing when your child takes you in his arms?....or hey, do you also feel guilty and therefore you were inconsistent? ....or hey, does your child also lie all day long?
If they would feel the same way, they would not admit it.

This is clearly a complex long term problem Stern on which I really think you should seek some expert child-parent counseling (if you haven't done so already). But I think there is a lot of confusion going on here and very mixed messaging with many confused issues around parenting responsibilities and boundary making. And about who's job it is to make who feel loved.

Am I off the mark when I say I seem to detect that at some level you as parents didn't make a successful immediate transition from happy self-contained lovers to committed and giving parents? If I've learned anything about being a parent it is that you'd better grow up fast and learn that - as Jordan Peterson put it so bluntly - when you have kids the marriage is no longer about you - its for the kids! And yes he adds its also for the parents/lovers, but essentially I think he is bluntly pointing out that wannabe parents who believe that they have it so good and just need a couple of complicit kids on the mantelpiece to complete their set of perfection invariably make a complete mess of the job because their implicit narcissism cannot make the necessary bridge to putting the kids first, second and near last.

What was it precisely about/during the pregnancy that made your feelings of negativity rear up even before your daughter was born? Apart from the possibility this implicit per-rejection may - and I say may - have been absorbed in the womb by your daughter, it is very strong to say you knew this was the biggest mistake of your life before even giving birth...

I know you say you had no post natal depression but you were clearly in a very confused state and those first days, weeks and months of bonding between particularly mother and child are absolutely essential for that child to develop a sense of safety, belonging and trust. Yes they demand and shout and roar (its all they know) but it is the loving, giving and easy response of giving from the parent/mother that confirms all is safe despite the vulnerability of being born. If this is in any way restricted or based on 'what am I getting from you the child?', then that's a big problem in store..

You see I was kinda of shocked by the title of the thread when I read your whole post. I detect all kinds of hints of you value judging your daughter's responses to you from very early on and that your 'love' as you call it was an act of some kind - and dependent on what she gave back - but you don't seem to have considered that her behavior may well be a product of not believing or trusting or knowing what her boundaries of security, love and support as a young child was - and that her lying tactics etc of alter on may have grown from this, especially as it seems the external issues of her looks and being such a 'top child' with approval by others may have only reinforced her learning that adults cant be trusted and need/deserve to be manipulated - because they don't give truly, freely and without condition of their true selves.

I am not blaming or accusing - I'm just posing something to think about. Its unfair to say the parents are always to blame; but in most cases that are not to do with some genetic pathology (and I'm not remotely convinced this is what your daughter is showing), I think we need to start with ourselves first. She was a child. You the parent. It was your job to make her safe, especially in those pivotal first 3 years when the three most important hardware programmes of life are laid down - and if they are not, real damage and trouble can emerge for all concerned. I assume you have read Laura on this vital matter of successful imprinting?

The Wave Chapter 65: The Way of the Fool​

 

[seek10]

And poof, she danced on our noses. She lied and fooled us all the time. My husband reacted with aggressive rejection. He has no desire to deal with her. He takes it personally. He is verbally often rough with her. And I felt even more guilty because of his negative attitude and tried to make up for it. Then everything got mixed up. I became even more inconsistent because I didn't want to hurt her little soul. My husband and I lost the ability to be a team. And our daughter her behavior became even more massive. It was a vicious circle of guilt on my part. But I think like you: better late than never and maybe all is not yet lost. I have been very consistent and clear for the last 8 months.

IMO having a consistent message from both parents to the kid is very important. Otherwise, kids not only get confused impressions and play in between. This message can be done without being harsh if there is an understanding between the parents. Every parent reacts with more intensity to his kid and may not feel the same intensity to the others kid. There are occasions i worried about my kid's issues, when I talked to my friends, they simply convey that it is normal and told me much worse situation. you never know what others say suddenly makes sense. Some times it is important to know we are not alone. There is a saying kids doesn't come with user manuals.

I remember the parent child attachment model and how it evolves over time. At birth, child is part of mother's body( i.e. whatever mother feels, the child instinctly feels without words), then starts safely experimenting to move out, then they start expressing independence testing boundaries and so on. The learning process goes on beyond teenage years.

I am not sure what to say regarding how you feels hugging her though. You may be better off in conserving energy while doing your motherly duty, not to be manipulated by her and try to be better person.