Is real Putin dead?

Dao

The Force is Strong With This One
Keit said:
Dao, we have other Russian members on the forum, and I am one of them. So it's kind of hard to present something and talk about Russia when there are actual people here who have different experiences and view of the situation. It's ok that you don't agree with Putin's policies, it's your free will and prerogative. But the fact is that this forum also promotes critical thinking, and the argument that there is a mess in Russia simply because there is a double as a president isn't something we would call a critical thinking.

Perhaps it would be beneficial for you to familiarize yourself with the forum and its goals, also read Russian SOTT and there are also chapters of The Wave in Russian in order to understand what this forum is about. In your introduction you wrote that you are already familiar with Laura's work, but perhaps it would benefit you to read the Wave chapters and not only transcripts. Also to read recent focus articles translated on the Russian SOTT (especially Laura's latest editorial) to understand what could be the core problem of all humanity's troubles.

Сritical thinking means you see more than one side and you can examine even this probability and not telling "It's rubbish" at once.
When I'm reading people's dithyrambs to Putin in sessions I'm really in perplexity because it doesn't look like "objectivity".
President takes important decisions and if he isn't responsible for his country and people and for mess and for what is going on then there's no need for president at all. It's important to know who's captain of the ship and where's he heading for. But if the ship is Titaniс then it doesn't matter at all.
I don't like politics. It's the world behind the looking-glass full of slush and lies. It's a pity to run into this swamp while reading last sessions.
And, yes, the fact that the core problem of all humanity's troubles is 4D STS and their preference for humans negative emotions, doesn't mean that political pawns are innocent scapegoats. It's a system with two choices: "good" or "bad", left or right, west or east, black or white and "objectivity" is to refuse to choose nothing from this because both are mendacious.
 

angelburst29

The Living Force
Gawan said:
Dao said:
Windmill knight said:
Hmm, I can accept that a world leader has doubles which he could use in different circumstances, so granted that Putin could have some too. But the case offered to suggest that he is dead seems very weak to me. The interview with the 'wife' leaves way too many details out. It doesn't even address why or how he was supposed to have been murdered. It sounds like something made up for anti-Putin propaganda purposes.

From 2008 she really prefers not to show on public. It's not behaviour of a First Lady of the country. First Lady always have to be on public.

Personally I don't think so when it comes to security measures. And Putin seems to be very strict about family security (regarding his career) that no pictures of his kids are published on the media outlets which is also very understanding and even a sign that he really cares for them imo. The same could be said about his wife eventually.

If you take the time and do a comprehensive and systematic background check, of the voluminous information on Vladimir Putin, in photo's and documentation, and follow his progress, in physical mannerisms and speech patterns, especially in the last 15 years of public life - it would dispel any notion that "Putin is dead" in any kind of narrative. You would even be able to detect tail-line facial features that denote "reserved stress" in the last few months. There's more of a "serious sternness" about his demeanor. He has his priorities in check, due to the competent Staff and Associates of his team, is well versed in what direction he's taking, the before and after effects of his actions and "why" they have to be implemented .... and in what order to achieve a directive. Add to it - he has developed certain "disciplines and moral values" from an early age, in which he maintains - even in the Political Arena. Notice also, Putin has always been very active - in a physical sense with the public and any detections "of a fake" would be noticed on a grand scale.

As for a "Putin-double" - in my research, haven't come across any information that would suggest a temporary stand-in but I don't rule it out, as a possible alternative, under certain conditions.

As for Family, Putin's view can be found in information surrounding the documented transition surrounding Yeltsin's transference of Power to Putin on New Year's Eve, 15 years ago. Prior to that, Putin was a close Associate of Yeltsin and was able to witness Family interactions which were a personal and Political moral embarrassment to Yeltsin. Measures by Staff were often taken to cover up some of their drunken outbursts and shenanigans. Putin vowed early on - to protect his private life and keep it separate from his Political life. Not that Putin is hiding anything but to secure protection for his Family, in general. As for Putin's Wife, Lyudmila - look to the "timing" and in the manner a Divorce was announced - publically. In my personally view, it was a stratedgic move to ensure her safety? It was a Divorce - on paper and immediately pulled her out of the limelight and out of harm's way, as a possible target - to get to Putin. There is heavy security measures to protect each close Family member, which is generally customary in a high Political profile. Putin may have taken an additional step knowing "what was in the planning stages and on the drawing board" to reverse conditions in Russia and secure the Motherland. It would be an reasonable assessment, that the actions implemented to change course would put Putin in line with a high probability of Assassination.

Putin: ‘Love is the meaning of life’
https://www.rt.com/news/203339-putin-love-meaning-life/

Vladimir Putin is known for his sharp wit, but musings on love are a relative novelty. In an unexpected remark Friday, the Russian president spoke of the “meaning of life,” saying that for him “in general” it is love that matters.

Briefly digressing from politics, Putin ventured a philiosophical observation that “multifaceted” love is the basis of all actions and the essence of being.

"The meaning of our whole life and existence is love," Putin told his audience
at the 15th Congress of the Russian Geographical Society. "It is love for the family, for the children, for the motherland. This is a multifaceted phenomenon; it lies at heart of any of our behaviors."

Putin, who chairs the board of trustees at the Russian Geographical Society went on to express his hopes that “joint work” would help strengthen love for the motherland.

"It is exactly the top priority which all of us should go after, and I am absolutely sure that we will succeed," he added.


Putin has spoken at length about the necessity to attract more interest in geography among younger Russians, saying it “can and should be one of the most interesting subjects in school.”
 

Dao

The Force is Strong With This One
luke wilson said:
Generally believing in the existence of people being replaced by doubles is known as 'Capragas Syndrome'. Not saying that doubles don't exist.. just when the belief takes a pathological turn... :shock:

In the book, 'What is madness'

The obvious explanation is that the change in behaviour of the loved one is intolerable, and its inconsistency means that the subject chooses to believe in two different people rather than one person who can both gratify and frustrate, perhaps through their successive presences and absences.

Putin isnt my "...friend, spouse, parent, or other close family member (or pet)" so it doesn't fit me, sorry.


luke wilson said:
Not saying that doubles don't exist..

Say it to Felix Dadaev. He will laugh.
_http://rarehistoricalphotos.com/stalins-body-double-1940s/
"I was like him in every way, except perhaps my ears. They were too small".
 

Keit

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
Dao said:
Сritical thinking means you see more than one side and you can examine even this probability and not telling "It's rubbish" at once.
When I'm reading people's dithyrambs to Putin in sessions I'm really in perplexity because it doesn't look like "objectivity".
President takes important decisions and if he isn't responsible for his country and people and for mess and for what is going on then there's no need for president at all. It's important to know who's captain of the ship and where's he heading for. But if the ship is Titaniс then it doesn't matter at all.
I don't like politics. It's the world behind the looking-glass full of slush and lies. It's a pity to run into this swamp while reading last sessions.
And, yes, the fact that the core problem of all humanity's troubles is 4D STS and their preference for humans negative emotions, doesn't mean that political pawns are innocent scapegoats. It's a system with two choices: "good" or "bad", left or right, west or east, black or white and "objectivity" is to refuse to choose nothing from this because both are mendacious.

It's all understandable. I also didn't like politics before finding Laura's site. I didn't like politics several years after either. As I grew up, though, also grew the understanding that certain dynamics present in our reality can be studied only by studying geopolitics. That through this dynamic it's possible to see what is happening behind the scenes, or learn how to see what is "as above so below". Of course, there is also the aspect of human and cosmic connection, as described in the book by Pierre and Laura.

I am sorry, Dao, you are a new member here, so it may seem to you that the information you present in this thread is some sort of revelation or maybe we are missing something here. That perhaps those who participate in the sessions are blinded by Putin's apparent awesomeness :P and such. Well, please take a look at the following thread, and please read it in its entirety. All these topics and arguments were already covered and discussed. Don't think you'll find a fertile ground for such discussions here, though. As I said, this forum has a specific goal, so please educate yourself by reading the required material first, including The Wave, and not only the transcripts.
 

Windmill knight

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Dao said:
It's a system with two choices: "good" or "bad", left or right, west or east, black or white and "objectivity" is to refuse to choose nothing from this because both are mendacious.

In many cases they are, for example in US elections, where both parties are equally corrupt. But in many others they aren't. For example, in the Israeli / Palestinian conflict it is not true that both sides are equally wrong. That is the fallacy of the middle-ground, as they call it. Similarly, we cannot say that both Russia and the US have behaved equally bad in foreign policy in the last decade. Clearly, the US has continued a policy of rampant imperialism, while Russia has proceeded much more cautiously and diplomatically.

So no, objectivity is not always to refuse the choice between two contesting parties or positions. If it were it would be too easy, don't you think? ;)

Dao said:
luke wilson said:
Not saying that doubles don't exist.

Say it to Felix Dadaev. He will laugh.

I think you misunderstood. Luke was saying that doubles may indeed exist.
 

luke wilson

The Living Force
Dao said:
luke wilson said:
Generally believing in the existence of people being replaced by doubles is known as 'Capragas Syndrome'. Not saying that doubles don't exist.. just when the belief takes a pathological turn... :shock:

In the book, 'What is madness'

The obvious explanation is that the change in behaviour of the loved one is intolerable, and its inconsistency means that the subject chooses to believe in two different people rather than one person who can both gratify and frustrate, perhaps through their successive presences and absences.

Putin isnt my "...friend, spouse, parent, or other close family member (or pet)" so it doesn't fit me, sorry.


luke wilson said:
Not saying that doubles don't exist..

Say it to Felix Dadaev. He will laugh.
_http://rarehistoricalphotos.com/stalins-body-double-1940s/
"I was like him in every way, except perhaps my ears. They were too small".

I suppose it looked like I was referring to you since I posted in your thread. I didn't mention or allude to you in any way shape or form. It's strange though, when a married woman says her husband has been replaced by an almost perfect replica... Just because you can find 1 example that fits a certain description doesn't mean ALL do... there may be married women out there whose husbands have been replaced by perfect replicas for all we know... As to the current Putin not being the original Putin, my own subjective view is that I think it's unlikely to be the case. The current Putin may have a double though but that doesn't mean he has been replaced... OSIT.
 

Dao

The Force is Strong With This One
Keit said:
Dao said:
Why he needs interpreter if he speaks german well?

Several logical explanations:

1. Diplomatic reasons - it is expected for the person of his statue to do this.
2. Courtesy - instead of showing off, he shows courtesy to the others side (that does use interpreter) by using their services himself too.
3. Professionalism - yes, he may know German but doesn't want to miss any nuances, so he takes an interpreter to make sure he understands properly.
4. Strategical reasons - he may understand, but listening to the interpreter gives him time to think about his reply.

There could be others, but you get the idea.

Very logical explanations, I admit. I could agree with some of them but then I saw this:
_http://en.news-4-u.ru/elton-john-admitted-that-he-was-flattered-by-a-call-to-putin-and-praised-his-good-english.html
He knows german but he doesnt speak it with frau Merkel for reasons above.
But he tried to speak english with Elton John and that what real courtesy is. Because people like when you speak their native language. If you want to gain people's favour speak their language, escpecially if you're fluent in it.
 

Dao

The Force is Strong With This One
angelburst29 said:
Vladimir Putin is known for his sharp wit, but musings on love are a relative novelty. In an unexpected remark Friday, the Russian president spoke of the “meaning of life,” saying that for him “in general” it is love that matters.

Briefly digressing from politics, Putin ventured a philiosophical observation that “multifaceted” love is the basis of all actions and the essence of being.

"The meaning of our whole life and existence is love," Putin told his audience
at the 15th Congress of the Russian Geographical Society. "It is love for the family, for the children, for the motherland. This is a multifaceted phenomenon; it lies at heart of any of our behaviors."

Putin, who chairs the board of trustees at the Russian Geographical Society went on to express his hopes that “joint work” would help strengthen love for the motherland.

"It is exactly the top priority which all of us should go after, and I am absolutely sure that we will succeed," he added.

When Elton John sings "I believe in love, it's all we got. Love has no boundaries, costs nothing to touch " - I beleive him.
When Putin says "The meaning of our whole life and existence is love" - I don't beleive him.
Si vis pacem, para bellum.
When politicians talk about peace and love, it means that soon there will be war and rivers of blood.
 

Kisito

Jedi Council Member
For years we talk about this. Putin look-alikes that does not mean he's dead. I find the words of Lyudmila contradictory. She said that Putin was a very bad person when they were married. Then she said, I do not recognize my husband. When asked why she recognizes as her former husband, she responds: Putin is dead, it is a double, this man did horrible things. But if Putin was a bad man, and he is still a bad man, where is that Putin has changed? And if Putin or people who were very dangerous maneuver, why she would risk her life to criticize the most dangerous man in the world? Maybe the true Lyudmila died, and that it is now a double. :)
 

casper

The Living Force
Dao said:
Lyudmila Putin: "My Husband Is Long Been Dead" : _http://tatoott1009.com/2015/06/09/lyudmila-putin-my-husband-is-long-been-dead/
https://translate.google.hr/translate?sl=hr&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=hr&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bastabalkana.com%2F2015%2F06%2Fljudmila-putin-je-mrtav-putinov-dvojnik-vodi-rusiju%2F&edit-text=

Please read the end of this story :)
 

luke wilson

The Living Force
Dao said:
angelburst29 said:
Vladimir Putin is known for his sharp wit, but musings on love are a relative novelty. In an unexpected remark Friday, the Russian president spoke of the “meaning of life,” saying that for him “in general” it is love that matters.

Briefly digressing from politics, Putin ventured a philiosophical observation that “multifaceted” love is the basis of all actions and the essence of being.

"The meaning of our whole life and existence is love," Putin told his audience
at the 15th Congress of the Russian Geographical Society. "It is love for the family, for the children, for the motherland. This is a multifaceted phenomenon; it lies at heart of any of our behaviors."

Putin, who chairs the board of trustees at the Russian Geographical Society went on to express his hopes that “joint work” would help strengthen love for the motherland.

"It is exactly the top priority which all of us should go after, and I am absolutely sure that we will succeed," he added.

When Elton John sings "I believe in love, it's all we got. Love has no boundaries, costs nothing to touch " - I beleive him.
When Putin says "The meaning of our whole life and existence is love" - I don't beleive him.
Si vis pacem, para bellum.
When politicians talk about peace and love, it means that soon there will be war and rivers of blood.

Hey Dao, I'm referring to you now :)

Putin has done something no politician has dared do to these sorts of magnitude in a very long time. He has challenged and continues to challenge the rule of the West (US/Western Europe). He challenged this on the basis that these entities have brought havoc, death and carnage to basically humanity as a whole. The wars, the endless wars, the US just bombing every country, installing dictators, bringing havoc, the unfairness of capitalism... that the majority have to be poor and live as slaves. The wanton abuse of human dignity and freedom. He has challenged ALL this. It is so terrifying, so incomprehensible, so absolutely mind shattering. How can a person do this? How can he challenge the agreed upon order of things.

Surely there must be something wrong with this person. He has been replaced by a replica! He is lying! He is everything other than what he appears.

It's funny, this, 'he is everything other than what he appears' because that's exactly how western politicians and all other politicians driven by greed and self-interests are, the image they project outside. We know this because their actions don't follow their words. Obama came into power being the agent of change, change for the better... he has turned out to be the opposite. Bush, Clinton, Blair, all these people, they have massive followings... people worship the image, they don't see the actions. They prefer to be hypnotised or maybe they just like that these people have caused so much pain and death.

But Putin, look at his actions thus far... he is no mirage artist. This guy means business and he isn't playing around. He is challenging the playground bullies. I personally don't care whether he is a replica, alien or whatever, just as long as he see's his mission out successfully - to stop these bullies running riot bringing death, poverty and misery to the MAJORITY by far on this planet.
 

Yupo

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
I am a portrait artist. I think those photos are of the same man.
When he disappeared for a week or so not long ago, there was a lot of talk of him being sick, injured or dead. My information is that he was in Switzerland for the birth of his child by his gymnast girlfriend. He keeps his private life appropriately private.
 

Siberia

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
Dao said:
[...] it's a good luck to be born in Moscow because only in Moscow there's some kind of living, beyond the capital there's no life at all, only survival.

Some people think so, yes. Other people have a diametrically opposite opinion (myself, for example ;)). So it's subjective and depends on individual circumstances, aims and priorities.

Dao said:
And I do understand why russian people beleive in "Putin". Because they dont have any other choice. They were slaves for centures and they don't know other life. They can't live on their own, they need someone to lead them, to save them, to tell them what to do, to punch them because they have this masochistic nature. Instead of defending themselves they will lie on the ground waiting for their master stop beating and leaving them alone. And after crying and whining a bit about their hard life they will stand up, because master gave many tasks to do. They prefer to live in pain and suffer and die at their master's hand or because master told them to die but they will never fight for their freedom against their master. That's why these scared people, seeing what is going on with Ukraine, think that their life isn't so bad and their master isn't so cruel. And they die, one by one, in silence. But the most terrifying thing for them is to beleive, even for a moment, that there's no "Putin" at all. That's why what was successful in Ukraine (maidan), will not work in Russia. So, the only way to rule Russia is to kill its master and give people your own master-puppet and then you can do with this people whatever you want.

Dao, in the above passage you distance yourself from the Russian people: there is "you" and there is "they/Russian people/this people". You do not identify yourself with Russia here, is my understanding correct?

Another question is: why do you think that Russian people are "masochistic slaves"? I would say that such assessment seriously contradicts Russian history.
 

Keit

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
Yupo said:
I am a portrait artist. I think those photos are of the same man.
When he disappeared for a week or so not long ago, there was a lot of talk of him being sick, injured or dead. My information is that he was in Switzerland for the birth of his child by his gymnast girlfriend. He keeps his private life appropriately private.

Well, another possibility is less scandalous, but no less interesting. ;)

Laura said:
Q: (L) Well, I guess that means we should ask some questions. Everybody is concerned about Vladimir Putin's health. That's Vladimir Vladimirovitch Putin. So, I'm wondering is his health compromised?

A: No, not even close. He is working hard and steady.

Q: (L) What is he working on?

A: Solving major global imbalances.

Q: (L) So does that suggest that he has some surprises in store for the globalists?

A: Oh indeed! But they are too blinded by greed to anticipate his moves.
 

Buddy

The Living Force
luke wilson said:
Generally believing in the existence of people being replaced by doubles is known as 'Capragas Syndrome'. Not saying that doubles don't exist.. just when the belief takes a pathological turn... :shock:

In the book, 'What is madness'

The obvious explanation is that the change in behaviour of the loved one is intolerable, and its inconsistency means that the subject chooses to believe in two different people rather than one person who can both gratify and frustrate, perhaps through their successive presences and absences.

Wow, that's a thing? I didn't know that so thanks for mentioning it. I had a feeling on this thread I couldn't find the right words for so I didn't say anything, but if I were to try, I'd say I was feeling how remarkable it is for someone to assert a body-double, and with all the complications and implications a double adds to a picture, rather than just believe a person can simply do the right thing, or change their mind and do the right thing, in a situation where right action would be terrifying to someone else.

Of course, I might eventually prove to be off regarding Putin in this context of explaining a phenomena like this as part of 'madness', but I find the whole phenomena very interesting, indeed!
 
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