Israel-Palestine War: Hamas Breaks Out of Gaza, Israel Responds With Genocide

fabric said:
Not only offensive but downright stupid. The whole world knows that Israel is slaughtering civilians and by equating their actions, no matter how loosely, can be interpreted that they are doing the same in Ukraine. I did not expect that!
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I did not expect it either. It's like entering a different reality. Even if it is some kind of diplomatic way to make the West understand what Russia is fighting against in Ukraine (i.e. Nazis were the enemies of Jews and now they are the enemies of Russia) at this point in time it is the worst comparison to make, as the actions of the Israeli government have surpassed even those of Nazis! And historically Lavrov (and the Russian government in general) has been known to support the Palestinian plight for freedom.

From the Palestine Chronicle:

Objectives of Israel’s and Russia’s Wars ‘nearly Identical’ – Did Lavrov Shift Position on Gaza?​

​

The comments, attributed to Russia’s top diplomat, were cited by Russia Today in an interview on Thursday with RIA Novosti.

“The goals declared by Israel for its ongoing operation against Hamas militants in Gaza seem nearly identical to those put forward by Moscow in its campaign against the Ukrainian government,” RT quoted Lavrov as saying.

According to the Palestinian Ministry of Health, 21,320 Palestinians have been killed, and 55,603 wounded in Israel’s ongoing genocide in Gaza starting on October 7.

Palestinian and international estimates say that the majority of those killed and wounded are women and children.

Many international law experts have accused Israel of carrying out a genocide in the besieged Gaza Strip.

‘Denazification’?

But according to Lavrov, the Israeli and Russian goals are more or less the same, which include “demilitarization” and “denazification”.

It is unclear how Lavrov, who has historically defended the rights of Palestinians, and earlier in the day, spoke for the need for justice in Palestine, believes that Israel’s action in Gaza includes “denazification”.

Lavrov’s comments seem like a bizarre contradiction to statements made by top Russian politicians and officials.

These comments included a comparison made by Russian President Vladimir Putin on October 13 between the Israeli siege on Gaza and the Nazi siege on Leningrad during World War II.

Additionally, Russia’s own ambassador to the United Nations, Vassily Nebenzia, has made similar comparisons in strongly worded statements against the Israeli war.

Yet, according to RT, Lavrov believes that “the fight against Nazism is what historically unites Russia and the Middle Eastern country (Israel).”

His words exactly, according to RT, were: “Therefore, we need to be very careful about our common history with Israel and, above all, the history of the fight against Nazism. This is the main thing that unites us historically.”


Lapid Bad, Netanyahu Good

Lavrov went on to criticize former Israeli Prime Minister Yair Lapid who condemned Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. “This was unfair,” Lavrov said, in reference to Lapid’s position.

The Russian foreign minister compared that to the position of right-wing Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who has “not allowed himself to make any statements regarding Russia, despite international criticism and finding himself in ‘a difficult situation’.”

Lavrov reiterated his country’s position that only a ‘two-state formula’ will bring an end to the Middle East crisis, but without explaining how Moscow can play a part in turning it into a reality.

‘Greatly Offensive’

“Lavrov’s position, if the quotes attributed to him by RT are accurate, is bizarre and greatly offensive, to say the least,” Ramzy Baroud, a Palestinian political analyst, said.

“Bizarre because it is entirely inconsistent with Russian foreign policy since the start of the Israeli genocide on Gaza, and objectionable because it resembles some kind of a political nod for Israel to continue with its lethal war on Palestinian civilians without worrying about a strong Russian response,” he added.

Baroud also said that “Arab governments and Palestinian Resistance groups must demand clarification from Russia following these offensive statements and inquire if they represent an official change of policies regarding Israel and the Palestinian fight for freedom.”
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At the beginning of the month, he was saying the opposite:

Israel cannot carry out ‘collective punishment’ of people in Gaza: Lavrov​


The Russian foreign minister says it is unacceptable that Israel is using Hamas’s October 7 offensive as justification for a collective punishment of Palestinians in Gaza and has called for international monitoring of the situation on the ground in the besieged enclave.

Speaking virtually at the Doha Forum on Sunday, Sergey Lavrov told Al Jazeera’s diplomatic editor James Bays the unprecedented attack by Hamas inside the Israeli territory did not happen in a vacuum.

It was due to “decades and decades of a blockade [in Gaza] and decades and decades of unfulfilled promises to the Palestinians that they would have a state, living side to side with Israel in security and good neighbourliness”, he said.
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So yeah, his latest statement is really bizarre as it stands against everything else he previously said.
 
thorbiorn said:
A comment on the translation of the last paragraph: Yandex gives for "what was taken by force can only be recovered by force" the following "what was taken by force cannot be recovered only by force". I don't know which is the correct one, because it would seem that both have merits, given what Assad says "that ideology (doctrine) is tougher than the cruelty of terrorism and criminality" but ideology alone would not do considering "lying down in front of enemies is not an option but suicide".
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It's the first, "what was taken by force will only be recovered by force" because an approximate literal translation would be "what was taken by force cannot will not be made to be returned unless with force".
In the context of this phrase he speaks about faith and beliefs (righteousness of the cause etc. since it was a subject of a large part of the speech) being stronger than cruelty etc. Elsewhere when he talks about ideology he uses a loanword "el ideolokhiya".
FWIW
 
sToRmR1dR said:
Wow what a diplomacy!

www.rt.com

Israel's declared goals similar to Russia's – Lavrov

Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov says Israel’s goals in Gaza are the same as Moscow’s aims of demilitarizing and denazifying Ukraine
www.rt.com www.rt.com
28 Dec, 2023
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What is similar is the intensity by which both countries are dealing with their proclaimed enemies!
  • Russia is trying to eliminate as many Nazis as possible while protecting civilians.
  • Israel is trying to eliminate as many civilians as possible while protecting Nazis.
Is Lavrov fearing something? Deep State visits?
Laura said:
Q: (L) So it couldn't get a hearing. Despite the fact that Trump stacked the courts, they still couldn't get a hearing. The Deep State had tentacles reaching that far. What happened to all of these judges and so forth that Trump put in place who SHOULD have helped deal with this election fraud...
A: Deep State visits.

Q: (L) So in other words, it was kinda like Men In Black who visit you and say, "This is the way it's going to be."
A: Yes
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Remember how Putin was forced to develop the vaxx too... (Session 4 July 2020)
(L) So, if we keep calling them all liars, that’s not good. We can publish studies and stuff that point out that they're liars, but us coming out and directly antagonizing them might not be such a good idea.

A: Yes

Q: (L) Well... One thing I was wondering about: It bothers me because I see Putin going along with the whole coronavirus thing, and it just really bugs me.

A: Imagine if he didn't!

Q: (Artemis) Yeah, I was thinking that it's a mask.
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Alana said:
So yeah, his latest statement is really bizarre as it stands against everything else he previously said.
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Natus Videre said:
s Lavrov fearing something? Deep State visits?
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Indeed! My first thought was that he may be under threat, and/or know that accusing Israel publicly has its dangers. But then again, we've seen so many smart people lose it this year, that it wouldn't be surprising to see another one.
 
A few comments I've heard over the last few days from various sources in my daily news feeds. Things aren't going well for the Israeli military. A US organization that trains people to treat wounds hasn't been able to get their supplies because their main source told them that their inventory is going to Israel in large shipments. Other descriptions of the general lack of professional training for the military which leads them to make stupid mistakes resulting in casualties. Although Israel has an enormous amount of exceptional weaponry the ability to use this by capable, highly trained personal is lacking. The impression I had is that many of these men have spent little time in the military, are out of shape physically and lack discipline. They are leveling Gaza in such a way that doesn't require much from them other than wiping out infrastructure with missiles.
 
Joe said:
Yeah, I think Lavrov's statement is pretty offensive. Saying that “the fight against Nazism is what historically unites Russia and the Middle Eastern country (Israel)” is nonsense. There are no "nazis" in Palestine. Israel is not "fighting nazis" in Palestine. It is slaughtering civilians.

Maybe he's past his prime. Time to put him to pasture.
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Instead, i think it's a good thing. a good thing that throws another cannonball at the belief that you know how a 3d sts realm really works and how it is kept alive and well. the role of the former soviet union and today's russia in the establishment of the state of israel and its legitimization n'importe quoi, has a long history. Perhaps it can be added that just as a great soul does not necessarily indicate anything here, the same is true for an excellent chess player.
 
Chu said:
But then again, we've seen so many smart people lose it this year, that it wouldn't be surprising to see another one.
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I would like to act as a lawyer for a while, if I may. To help myself, I will call on C's with their wonderful words: Imagine if he didn't! Let me remind you that Russia has been "walking on the edge" for many recent years and this passage will most likely not end even with the end of the Ukrainian epic. People like Lavrov, Putin and others are clearly aware of their personal responsibility to the country, the people and, if you like, humanity. And I and probably many others would like to see these people in the image of knights in white armor, as they say, without fear and reproach, but real life is more complicated. In this case, Lavrov probably did not say the most successful words, but we will be able to fully assess their correctness and value only after time has passed and in the development of the situation.

Я хотел бы немного выступить адвокатом, если позволите. В помощь себе призову Css с их замечательными словами: Напомню, что Россия много последних лет "идет по лезвию" и этот проход скорее всего не закончится даже с окончанием украинской эпопеи. Такие люди как Лавров, Путин и др. однозначно осознают свою личную ответственность перед страной, народом и, если хотите, человечеством. И мне и наверняка многим другим хотелось бы видеть этих людей в образе рыцарей в белых доспехах, как говорится, без страха и упрека, но реальная жизнь сложнее. В данном случае Лавровым сказаны, наверно не самые удачные слова, но правильность и ценность их в полной мере мы сможем оценить только по прошествии времени и в развитии ситуации.
 
For some reason, the English translation on the Foreign Ministry's website has not been completed to the end. I translated Lavrov's answer to the question about Gaza. Read it verbatim.
Question: Our time is coming to an end, but we still have an important topic – the Gaza Strip. Israel has already announced that the war will go on for months. Hamas is allegedly being destroyed.

Although Americans have been flirting with him for a long time. You even wrote an article in Izvestia a year ago about all kinds of staging. What was the result? Was this also some kind of staged attack by Hamas on Israel? How should I take it all? Some even think that the destruction of the Gaza Strip is a special operation in order to dig a parallel Suez Canal from the Gulf of Eilat through the Negev Desert. It's three hundred kilometers away. With modern technology and money, it's not difficult. What was that? What is the essence of this geopolitical process?

Sergey Lavrov: There are a lot of conspiracy theories emerging now.

Just the other day, our television and social networks once again broadcast a message from one of the Western media, Western journalists, researchers (in my opinion, S. Hersh also published it) that the entire Israeli leadership had been warned by intelligence about an impending large-scale terrorist attack a year before October 7 this year.

I cannot admit (if this is true) that no preventive measures have been taken. Moreover, I know how capable the Israeli army and its security forces are and are always ready to launch pre-emptive strikes.

This reminded me of another conspiracy theory, when on September 11, 2001, the Twin Towers were attacked by terrorists, after which the war in Afghanistan began and the Greater Middle East project was announced.

There were other less bloody conspiracy theories –the Moon landing. Until now, no one can finally calm down. Although, it would seem that in all three cases, such a number of people should have known about what was happening. This still remains unclear. Strange.

I don't even want to admit that normal people can sacrifice hundreds of their fellow citizens in order to have some kind of excuse, either to trample on a terrorist organization that they hate and want to completely destroy it, or to get some economic, logistical benefits.

You said that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu announced that Hamas must be destroyed entirely and as a military force. It's like demilitarization. He also said that extremism must be destroyed in Gaza. It's like denazification. Moreover, it is not very clear to me why the previous Israeli government, when he was Prime Minister.Lapid (before that he was the Minister of Foreign Affairs, then he became Prime minister) reacted this way to the beginning of our special military operation. His reaction was amazing to me. They say how Russia dared to use force against the civilian population, annexed Ukrainian territories.

It wasn't fair. We talked about it with him. I don't know how he analyzes and describes events now, but Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, despite numerous critical statements from around the world and the fact that he found himself in a serious situation, he did not and does not allow himself to make any statements about Russia. Telephone conversations with Russian President Vladimir Putin took place twice (1, 2). The Israelis, like the Egyptians, helped us evacuate our citizens who were held hostage or simply wanted to leave the Gaza Strip.

We need to be very careful about our shared history with Israel. And above all, to the history of the struggle against Nazism. This is the main thing that unites us historically. This is the foundation of our genetic code, if you will.

The Holocaust and the extermination of the multinational Soviet people are things of the same order, except for numbers. 6 million people are the Holocaust and more than 20 million people are the peoples of the Soviet Union.

A year ago, the Israeli ambassador in Kiev, during a press conference on Holocaust Memorial Day, when asked how he felt about the fact that S. Bandera, R. Shukhevych and other Nazis were glorified in Ukraine, and these symbols were used and revered, he remained silent. He was asked if this meant that Israel had changed its attitude. He replied "no" and said that for Israelis they are still Nazis, unacceptable, and it will be forever. But, they say, Ukraine has a complicated history. I understand why Ukrainians treat these figures and political structures this way. Now that's scary.
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Интервью Министра иностранных дел Российской Федерации С.В.Лаврова агентству «РИА Новости» и телеканалу «Россия 24» по актуальным вопросам внешней политики, Москва, 28 декабря 2023 года

This is the video version. Unfortunately, only Russian subtitles.
Яндекс

На сайте МИД английский перевод почему то не доделан до конца. Я перевел ответ Лаврова на вопрос про Газу. Прочитайте дословно.
 
youlik said:
For some reason, the English translation on the Foreign Ministry's website has not been completed to the end. I translated Lavrov's answer to the question about Gaza. Read it verbatim.

Интервью Министра иностранных дел Российской Федерации С.В.Лаврова агентству «РИА Новости» и телеканалу «Россия 24» по актуальным вопросам внешней политики, Москва, 28 декабря 2023 года

This is the video version. Unfortunately, only Russian subtitles.
Яндекс

На сайте МИД английский перевод почему то не доделан до конца. Я перевел ответ Лаврова на вопрос про Газу. Прочитайте дословно.
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word salad with cannon fodder.as was intended to show.he and not just him among the big chess players know what happened on 9/11. to say one thing that matters to Americans. everything else that happened before and after in the world doesn't matter a sh*t so let's take 9/11. he knows EXACTLY what happened. as do all the intelligence services and ALL the topdogs in the elected political world. But it's part of the game. everything else, including us, are billions cannon fodder who moreover pay them too. 3dsts funny realm for dummies
 
Joe said:
Maybe he's past his prime. Time to put him to pasture.
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Let not jump to conclusion to fast. If Lavrov was giving is opinion, there will be a reaction from the Kremlin or Putin soon. But if he was delivering a message from the Kremlin the then reaction will be totally different. Let wait and see.

Chu said:
Indeed! My first thought was that he may be under threat, and/or know that accusing Israel publicly has its dangers. But then again, we've seen so many smart people lose it this year, that it wouldn't be surprising to see another one.
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I think that Russian diplomat are well aware of potential personal treat to there life or well being of their close family member. It goes whit the job I would say. Take for example the assassination of Andrei Karlov, the Russian Ambassador to Turkey, in December 2016. No, for me it may be much bigger than a treat to one is live, it may be a serious treat but again Russia.

So bizarre and unexpected indeed. Sure would love to to hear the C's answer to this sudden turn of narrative.
 
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