Jewish History, Jewish Religion - Israel Shahak's shocking revelations

Windmill knight

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I recently finished reading the book and I don't know what is more shocking: the promotion of hatred against non-Jews, particularly Christians, or the ease with which they seem to think their God is so stupid that they can fool Him in the most childish ways. Really, this primitive tribal religion is the antithesis of actual spirituality. In the name of love for the Jewish people, they should all convert to any other religion. Even being atheists should be less harmful for their souls.
 

Tuatha de Danaan

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With regards to duplicity ,deceit and malevolence, Rabbis must know the origins of Talmud etc. so they must be aware of their own twisted power and control over their people. This makes them, to my mind, close to the top of the pile of perverts & psychopaths who twist, pervert and maybe in some cases actually smash souls. The indoctrination from birth has to be stifling and near to impossible to break free from. They are the enablers with phenomenal power.
 

mkrnhr

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Somehow related to the recent burning of Notre Dame de Paris, various extremist groups of different labels (secularists, islamics, etc.) expressed some contentement. In what concerns the subject of this thread, we have also this peculiar reaction:

According to the newspaper, Shlomo Aviner, a rabbi of a West Bank settlement who was born in France, initially refrained from directly calling the blaze a punishment from god, but admitted that it might be possible after he was asked the following question: "So it can't be said that it was punishment?"

"It is possible, after all. The first big Talmud burning was in Paris, there in the plaza of the Notre Dame Cathedral", the rabbi said.
Gilad Atzmon reports here that:

Shlomo Aviner is the rabbi of the Beit El settlement and head of the Ateret Yerushalayim yeshiva. He provides the ‘rational’ behind the divine retribution. “Christianity,” he says, “is our number one enemy throughout history. [They] tried to convert us by arguments and by force, carried out an inquisition against us, burned the Talmud, expulsions, pogroms. Western anti-Semitism draws from Christianity’s hatred of the ‘murderers of God.’ It also had a role in the Holocaust.”
When you have pathological individuals in charge of already pathological religions, who knows what the consequences are on the short and long terms!
 

Chu

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I recently finished reading the book and I don't know what is more shocking: the promotion of hatred against non-Jews, particularly Christians, or the ease with which they seem to think their God is so stupid that they can fool Him in the most childish ways. Really, this primitive tribal religion is the antithesis of actual spirituality. In the name of love for the Jewish people, they should all convert to any other religion. Even being atheists should be less harmful for their souls.
With regards to duplicity ,deceit and malevolence, Rabbis must know the origins of Talmud etc. so they must be aware of their own twisted power and control over their people. This makes them, to my mind, close to the top of the pile of perverts & psychopaths who twist, pervert and maybe in some cases actually smash souls. The indoctrination from birth has to be stifling and near to impossible to break free from. They are the enablers with phenomenal power.
Yes, although I think we have to keep in mind that not ALL of them are like that. Like Shahak himself explains, most aren't even taught things in these terms at school, of within the culture. Yes, many things permeate, but I think there are quite a few good people out there. Sionism and the ponerized religion as described by Shahak are one thing, but notice that some Jews do no support their sick values. Viktor Frankl also comes to mind.

As for rabbis, well, I don't know. The genuinely good hearted ones may be just a few, if you assume that most of them have actually been indoctrinated and studied the texts, and still decided to pursue that path.
 

Ant22

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Yes, although I think we have to keep in mind that not ALL of them are like that. Like Shahak himself explains, most aren't even taught things in these terms at school, of within the culture. Yes, many things permeate, but I think there are quite a few good people out there. Sionism and the ponerized religion as described by Shahak are one thing, but notice that some Jews do no support their sick values. Viktor Frankl also comes to mind.

Good point, Chu, your post reminded me of a metaphor I once heard, which in my opinion describes why different people are affected by religion differently:

If we put a carrot, an egg and coffee beans into boiling water, the water will harden the egg, soften the carrot and the coffee beans will change the colour of water but remain almost unchanged themselves. By analogy, how each person responds to religion may depend on what they're made of, although upbringing probably plays some part too. That's why there are people like IDF soldiers shooting Palestinians and there are people like Victor Frankl.

Just a thought :-)
 

Luks

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Good point, Chu, your post reminded me of a metaphor I once heard, which in my opinion describes why different people are affected by religion differently:

If we put a carrot, an egg and coffee beans into boiling water, the water will harden the egg, soften the carrot and the coffee beans will change the colour of water but remain almost unchanged themselves. By analogy, how each person responds to religion may depend on what they're made of, although upbringing probably plays some part too. That's why there are people like IDF soldiers shooting Palestinians and there are people like Victor Frankl.

Just a thought :-)
I would like to add, that religion is not the source of anything. The source is the humans or some who look similar, but not really "is" - like psychopaths. The religions have their source in the people. Nothing higher is in the religions as it is proclaimed. The real religion is our lives, and it depends on us to what book, what philosophies, and directions get and how we interpret the "holy word." The relation between some particular regard religion or some philosophy is specific and can be quite different between people. Mostly only psychopaths are unanimous about religion and what meaning it should have in people lives.
 
As far as psycho-rabbis go, I think the nature of the individual, unless they’re raised in some ultra-orthodox environment, can determine what sort of rabbi one becomes. There’re rabbis who will greet you with a smile and a handshake, and there’re rabbis to whom it’s a sin to even touch. You have your laidback rabbis, whom you wouldn’t think are rabbis, and then you have your fiery rod rabbis. The Hasidic ones scare the bejesus outta me. The ones who are fervently praying with flecks of spittle in their beards and waiting for some triumphant calamity. The “The Lord will smite”, finger-pointers.
 

Tuatha de Danaan

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As far as psycho-rabbis go, I think the nature of the individual, unless they’re raised in some ultra-orthodox environment, can determine what sort of rabbi one becomes. There’re rabbis who will greet you with a smile and a handshake, and there’re rabbis to whom it’s a sin to even touch. You have your laidback rabbis, whom you wouldn’t think are rabbis, and then you have your fiery rod rabbis. The Hasidic ones scare the bejesus outta me. The ones who are fervently praying with flecks of spittle in their beards and waiting for some triumphant calamity. The “The Lord will smite”, finger-pointers.

I've got to agree with everything you say, but irrespective of their demeanour, at the end of the day they are still Rabbis and they wield the power over every aspect of their peoples lives.
 

goyacobol

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English-subtitled audio recording of Rabbi Yisrael Ariel (Head of The Sanhedrin and The Temple Institute) speaking in Jerusalem on 9 7September 2015 about how Jews should treat non-Jews. He talks about about killing non Jews who refuse to follow Jewish laws. (7 Noahide laws...)
If the subtitling is accurate then this one "snake" sentence is kind of alarming I think.

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You have to wonder, are they following some "Snake/reptillian" religion or what. Maybe I am missing something in the translation.

My only guess is that this is their way of being "wise as serpents". I just haven't seen the "but gentle as doves" part yet.
 

goyacobol

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Just to add some current context to the results of the Jewish Zionist agenda I thought we could look at a SOTT article that shows how Jewish History has actually has played out in our reality. I would like to honor the hard work that SOTT is doing to share what we are learning here.

'Not by Might, nor by Power': A Jewish atonement for Zionism

In this article the video in the comments section adds volumes by giving an example of a man's real life experience after being born in Israel and seeing the results of these "thinking errors". The BBC interviewer continually interjects difficult questions that Ilan Pappe answers very carefully.


I think our biggest challenge in this period of darkness is just holding on due to "trans marginal inhibition" and what the current Israeli "regime" is doing to the Palestinians is a plan that 4D STS has for all of us.

Session 13 September 2009:
Q: (Allen) Could you just explain it, because I didn't read it. (Keit) What I said is that... I brought this in quotes and quoted from Darkness Over Tibet. The author mentions that there are two possibilities in development: upward and downward. And there is a possibility of losing one's soul, but it should be a conscious decision, it's a choice. And it can't be taken by force. (L) But they can make you choose by wearing you out. (Keit) Exactly, and I gave my personal example where I felt that traumatic experiences in our lives kind of manipulates us into choosing the downward development. And we basically choose something that is against our own level of being. And it's so traumatic for the soul, that it twists the soul and puts it in a downward position. The eventual outcome of this event is basically smashing the soul, even if the final smashing event is relative small. And that's why there is so much suffering and pathology in the world, where they force and manipulate souls into choosing. (L) Against their own nature. (PL) And Illion said that the worse thing for a human being is the sin against their own soul. (Keit) And sinning against the soul is going against your own level or nature of being. So, like narcissistic tendencies and everything, that's why for our own sake we need to clean ourselves. (DD) Is this why they've injected so many drugs into the culture to just weaken people?

A: Yes and remember also transmarginal inhibition principles.

Q: (L) One of those principles is that even strong dogs that could not be broken in ordinary ways, if they subjected them to physical trauma like surgery, or illness, or something like that, that that would weaken them to the point where they could be turned. So torture is also part of this process.

A: Yes

Q: (L) And we live now in a culture of torture which is basically a soul-smashing culture.

A: Yes
 

herondancer

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The BBC interviewer continually interjects difficult questions that Ilan Pappe answers very carefully.
What a generous assessment. The interviewer was a pompous ass who's job appeared to be to make sure that Pappe didn't get to make a clear statement of his argument in any coherent way, and keep the British lobby happy. Pappe displayed an enormous amount of patience, getting some good points in, but as soon as that threatened to become something substantial, the interviewer jumped to something completely different. He brought in Syria, downplayed Pappe's reliance on actual facts, as opposed to Benny's Morris' flight of "if only this or that had happened"fantasies, and other tactics.

He certainly got his gatekeeping points for that effort. Typical BBC sleaze.
 

Hi_Henry

Jedi Council Member
What a generous assessment. The interviewer was a pompous ass who's job appeared to be to make sure that Pappe didn't get to make a clear statement of his argument in any coherent way, and keep the British lobby happy. Pappe displayed an enormous amount of patience, getting some good points in, but as soon as that threatened to become something substantial, the interviewer jumped to something completely different. He brought in Syria, downplayed Pappe's reliance on actual facts, as opposed to Benny's Morris' flight of "if only this or that had happened"fantasies, and other tactics.

He certainly got his gatekeeping points for that effort. Typical BBC sleaze.
You got that right !!! Sackur appears to be doing all the talking in this interview. Reason: Make sure Pappe has as little time to makes his points as possible.

I especially like the exchange about the "Ethnic Cleansing".

Sackur attributes the displacement of ~700k Palestinian to the "Heat of War". To counter, Pappe presents the situation on the ground before May 15, 1948. He elegantly shows (from Israeli documents) that 50% of Arabs who were later to become Palestinian Refugees were pushed out of urban and rural areas en mass BEFORE there was any fighting with the Arabs. ALL ARABS were displaced prior to May 15th, ethnically cleansed from the land.

To counter this Sackur pulls out a SINGLE QUOTE which he states is a "seed of doubt" in what Pappe characterizes as "ethnic cleansing" by the Israeli State. Sackur said,
24th of March the Chief of Staff .... wrote to all his field officers "They must protect the right, the needs, the freedoms of Arabs living in the Field Group space."
Pappe ,with a smile, said "He may have written it but ....". But the Reality was exactly the opposite. Forced displacement and destruction of Arab homes and property by the Israeli Army. Hence, Ethnic Cleansing. The "protect the rights" was a historical "insurance policy" for when question were to be asked in the future about what the Zionists did. Like they say "Words are Cheap".

In Sackur's defense, he is playing Devils Advocate which is the standard HardTalk format. However for those viewers unfamiliar with the subject they may be misled by information presented by the Devil's Advocate. A tricky situation at best if the interviewee is not a strong debater.

Pappe is a strong debater which comes across very clearly when he states, "It's amazing. We're talking about what possibly the Palestinians COULD HAVE DONE to the Jews. And this is really flimsy history !!! This is not serious history. To write a book of what COULD HAVE HAPPENED is really bad. I am writing a book of WHAT HAD HAPPENED. And what had happened was a CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY."

I must say I never knew some of the details of this history presented in the interview.

Nice find goyacobol !!!
 

luc

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Not sure whether this has come up somewhere already, but this is :jawdrop:

'Yes, we're racists. We believe in racism'
Embracing racism, rabbis at pre-army yeshiva laud Hitler, urge enslaving Arabs
Recordings show instructors at settlement academy openly promoting Jewish supremacy; principal says Arabs want to live under Israeli occupation due to their genetic inferiority

Two rabbis at a pre-military religious academy in a West Bank settlement were recorded making derogatory and racist comments about Arabs, defending Adolf Hitler’s worldview, and openly promoting Jewish supremacy.

In a series of undated recordings published by Channel 13 news on Monday, Rabbi Eliezer Kashtiel, the head of the Bnei David academy in Eli, can be heard calling for the enslavement of the “stupid and violent” non-Jews due to their genetic inferiority.

“The gentiles will want to be our slaves. Being a slave to a Jew is the best. They’re glad to be slaves, they want to be slaves,” he told a class in one of the video clips. “Instead of just walking the streets and being stupid and violent and harming each other, once they’re slaves, their lives can begin to take shape.”

“All around us, we are surrounded by peoples with genetic problems. Ask a simple Arab ‘where do you want to be?’ He wants to be under the occupation. Why? Because they have genetic problems, they don’t know how to run a country, they don’t know how to do anything. Look at them.”

In the lecture, Kashtiel goes on to embrace racism against non-Jews.

“Yes, we’re racists. We believe in racism… There are races in the world and peoples have genetic traits, and that requires us to try to help them,” he said. “The Jews are a more successful race.”

In another clip from the Bnei David Yeshiva published by Channel 13, Rabbi Giora Redler can be heard praising Hilter’s ideology during a lesson about the Holocaust.


“Let’s just start with whether Hitler was right or not,” he told students. “He was the most correct person there ever was, and was correct in every word he said… he was just on the wrong side.”

Redler goes on to say that pluralism is the “real” genocide being perpetrated against the Jewish people, not Nazi Germany’s Final Solution.

“The real Holocaust was not when they murdered the Jews, that’s not it. All these excuses — that it was ideological or systematic — are nonsense,” he said. “Humanism, and the secular culture of ‘We believe in man,’ that’s the Holocaust.”

The comments drew wide condemnation from opposition lawmakers who called for pulling all state funding to the Eli-based academy over Kashtiel’s and Redler’s remarks.

“This is not Judaism, and these are not our values,” Blue and White MK Yair Lapid said in a statement. “People who talk this way are not worthy of calling themselves rabbis… the state needs to stop funding this program until the racist rabbis are removed.”

Meretz chairwoman Tamar Zandberg sent a letter to the Education Ministry demanding that all state funding be severed in light of “the chauvinism, homophobia and hate being spewed from that academy.”

After the footage was aired on Monday, Kashtiel and Redler, in a statement to Channel 13, acknowledged making the remarks but claimed the comments were taken out of context.

Kashtiel said he was “pained” that his “lesson on human rights” was misinterpreted, telling the network he meant the precise opposite, and was calling for “social responsibility and caring for the weak.” He said his references to slavery and racism were a “modernist-socialist interpretation” of those concepts.

In his lesson, Redler said he was simply trying to “explain Hitler’s morbid logic,” and accused the media of a “cynical smear” against him days before Holocaust Remembrance Day.

Rabbis teaching at the Eli academy — a darling of the national religious camp for funneling of thousands of religious officers into senior combat positions in the IDF — have a history of making controversial and illiberal remarks.

In 2016, the co-founder of the Bnei David academy, Yigal Levinstein, was recorded in class calling gay people “sick and perverted. In another lecture that year, Levinstein claimed that drafting women to the IDF was making them “crazy” and stripped them of their Jewishness.

Bnei David’s other co-founder, Rabbi Eli Sadan, preaches against educating women, claiming that independent thinking “neuters their most important capability… to build the home.”

Last year, footage surfaced of another Bnei David teacher, Rabbi Yosef Kelner, lecturing students on women being “weak-minded” and possessing a reduced capacity for spirituality.

In 2017, then-defense minister Avigdor Liberman vowed to defund the Eli academy, but the move was blocked by the attorney general for legal reasons. Instead, Liberman announced that he would restrict the number of students as a punitive measure for the “constant sexism” at the Eli academy.

It's good that there seems to be some backlash in Israel, but it's interesting that it seems to be coming more from a SJW perspective. And to be honest, I suspect that the Rabbis' comments are what many, many Israelis believe. It's just so outrageous when voiced explicitly and publicly that some need to distance themselves. But in the end, I think such thoughts are deeply entrenched in their psyche.
 

Chu

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What's interesting as well is how little uproar there is when a rabbi says things like that, as opposed to when anyone else does. Can you imagine what the media would say if it had been just a catholic priest, for example?

Another one:

Chief rabbi calls black people ‘monkeys’

The Sephardic chief rabbi of Israel called black people “monkeys” during his weekly sermon on Saturday evening.
Rabbi Yitzhak Yosef was addressing Jewish legal aspects of the blessing on seeing fruit trees blossoming, during the current Hebrew month of Nissan, and, specifically, whether one should bless one tree or at least two.


In that context, he mentioned a blessing uttered upon seeing an “unusual creature,” citing the example of encountering a black person who has two white parents on the street in America.

In footage aired by the Ynet news site, Yosef could be seen referring to black people by the word “kushi,” which in modern Hebrew has pejorative connotations, and then going on to term a black person a “monkey.”

His office told Ynet that the comparison was a quote from the Talmud. Yosef has been known to court controversy in his sermons.
In a sermon delivered in May last year, he appeared to suggest during his weekly sermon that secular woman behave like animals because they dress immodestly.

In March 2016, Yosef was forced to retract a comment that non-Jews should not live in Israel, calling it “theoretical.”
He said non-Jews could live in Israel only if they observe the seven Noahide Laws, which are prohibitions against idolatry, blaspheming God, murder, forbidden sexual relations, stealing, and eating limbs off a live animal, and which prescribe the establishment of a legal system.

Non-Jews, Yosef said, are in Israel only to serve Jews.

Israel has two chief rabbis. Yosef represents those with origins in the Iberian Peninsula, North Africa, and the Middle East, and David Lau represents Ashkenazic Jews, with origins in European lands of the Roman Empire.
 
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