Jordan Peterson: Gender Pronouns and Free Speech War

[Timótheos]

Here's a new imaginary form of oppression I hadn't heard before - ADULTISM

http://everydayfeminism.com/2016/12/notes-hs-activist-needs/#.WFhv_qQ7Ork.twitter

[...]

Adultism Is Real – Even Within Social Justice Movements

Adultism is the idea that adults are superior to children and teenagers because of their age.

Adultism is what leads to children feeling silenced. It results in us diminishing their experiences, gaslighting them, and discounting their opinions. It enables the abuse of children.

What’s more is that adultism intersects with other forms of oppression, which makes young people particularly vulnerable to discrimination and systemic injustice.

Teenage girls face a unique kind of misogyny. Queer and trans youth are more likely to face abuse and homelessness. Young people of color are particularly harmed by racism.

It’s a scourge that’s so prevalent in society – even within social justice movements, where I’ve had my rage met with condescension from older activists. So many of my peers have been harmed and patronized by “veteran” activists who don’t realize how harmful their actions are.

Be aware that your activism will be met with adultism, inside and outside of social justice circles.

Sure, you could benefit from listening to the opinions of older, experienced activists. Their advice and perspectives can enrich your worldview. But that definitely doesn’t mean your opinion isn’t valuable, and it certainly doesn’t mean older activists are always right.

Many older people will discount your opinions and experiences, no matter their political views. But it’s important to remember that your age doesn’t determine whether you should be respected or not. It’s difficult not to discount your own views in the face of adultism, but know that it’s bullshit.

Your opinion is valid. Your identity is valid. Your experiences are valid.

[...]

 

[Yas]

I haven't been participating in this thread but I've been reading it and thought it would be good to share this video I came across from a Brazilian philosopher and journalist, Olavo de Carvalho, that has some interesting things to say about this subject. Nevertheless, he seems to be totally blind in other issues, IMHO.

Here's the link to the video (it's in Portuguese): _https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UofwUOo3hLQ

I made some notes and translated them:
(Note: I'm not quoting his precise words, I'm paraphrasing)

- Every sexual conduct has elements of conflict and can generate guilt. Therefore, for any group that holds sexuality as a dominant factor, the inner conflict will also be intense, which will increase the tendency to neurosis and the repression of moral conscience.

- Psychopathic leaders will provide all the possible means to extinguish the moral conscience and they will try to appear as the solution to moral conflicts – in order to suppress them.

- The suppression of moral conscience is converted into ideology by the psychopathic leaders and it emerges as a solution to their problems (referring to the people with this intense moral conflicts mentioned above – i.e. activists for homosexual identity.)

- Both the suppression of moral conscience and the systematization of it as ideology imply a decrease in psychological acuity and the spread of perception failures.

- Psychopathic leaders consolidate the neurosis of moral conscience as a right, an ideology and a merit, as well as a new model of society.

- The Gay discourse tries to eliminate any possibility of moral conflict. They try to normalize homosexuality but also portray it as a meritorious practice that is above any possibility of criticism. When the individual assimilates this ideology he/she becomes incapable of recognizing his/her own inner conflicts.

- Since there is no natural fundament for the idea of a “homosexual identity” – homosexuality includes many types of different people, therefore it is impossible to say that it is only ONE identity –, they try to explain it by using the idea of social constructs. So this identity is a social construct, but also every natural human reaction is explained as “social constructs”, creating a pseudo-social science. By assimilating this ideology, the individual contact with his own deep structure is completely blocked and he starts living in a world of hysteric self-affirmation.

- As Lobaczewski points out, the psychopathic leadership generates neurosis in order to strengthen the suppression of moral conscience.

- The idea of normalizing homosexuality emerges from psychopathic leaders that influence the masses of militants and neurotic sympathizers. The offer of normalizing it is the offer of eliminating the moral conflict. But this conflict isn't really eliminated, thus, it must be explained somehow. They explain this by the idea of “moralizing social constructs that condemn us”.

- Psychopathic leaders also induce these groups to blame others for their own inner conflicts. Since the homosexual identity is something nonexistent in and on itself, its construction is a hysteric procedure in its totality, which doesn't match the real feelings of the individual. By trying to suppress their own inner conflict they start blaming others of their own inner discomfort. So they put the blame in what others say. And, because this identity is a “construct” that doesn't correspond to our natural human perception (we see a man, a woman, a boy, a girl), they also need to constantly “show off” this identity, they need to constantly show it so that it continues to exist (hysteric self-affirmation).

- This doesn't mean that all the people in these groups are psychopaths, no, they are just people with hysteroid neurosis that use a discourse which is copied from a psychopath – they are false psychopaths.

- About the right for homosexual adoption of children: one thing is that homosexuals adopt children and raise them, another is that they adopt the children under the condition of being homosexuals, passing this “homosexual identity” to their children – an identity that is a histeroid contruct. This identity does not correspond with the reality of the physical human structure, it doesn't correspond with the reality of feelings, it is only a resource to suppress the inner conflict that nevertheless remains there. Therefore, if we educate a child based in the principle that he/she has to accept his/her sexual identity, we are already neurotizing him/her from the beginning. Not because of homosexuality in itself, but because they are adhering to a psychopathic discourse.

I ended up watching other videos and reading about him and I've got to say that so far this is probably the only one that where he expresses some colinear thinking in some way.

Reading a little about him, he's a rather controversial character who seems to like to cause controversy. He says he is the father of the new Brazilian right-wing movement, he likes hunting and loves weapons, he says that Temer (the new neo-liberal president of Brazil who got there after what is know as a coup-de-Etat) is better than Dilma Rousseff (the former president that was impeached), and he is totally against the PT (Workers Party). He's also in favor of closing the doors to Muslim migrants, and he says that applying the measures of the World Bank in Brazil is what really helped to bring economic growth to the country.

I found him a bit cocky, stating that he is the only reason why the new Brazilian right is starting to have more participation, but at the same time saying that no one really understands his ideas because they are very complex.

In a video published in November this year called "How the Russians corrupted world politics? What is the objective?" He says that the weapons of terrorists are always Russian and that Russia is promoting terrorism in the world… In another video about Russia, he says that Putin is establishing a dictatorship in Russia and, among other things, that if you take all the immorality in the United States, it is nothing compared to that in Russia.

In the other videos, he makes an apology for "Western Christian values" and the danger of the Islamization of the world (something like Muslim ideology controlling the world). In the last video I saw, he said that the intervention in Iraq was good and that the Iraqis themselves were very happy with it.

So, although he speaks of Political Ponerology and mentions it in the above video, and says some interesting things there, it seems that he only applies the term "psychopath" for any leftist leader and not for the right-wing ones. And yes, the left in the US today is quite bad, as you've been discussing here and elsewhere, yet this man seem to have a very black and white thinking about it all, and he minimizes the mistakes made by the right.

**Another note: I shared this in this thread because the video mentioned was a related to the subject discussed here, but if the moderators think it deserves another different thread to discuss his ideas, please change this post accordingly.

 

[Josi]

This woman's got some interesting things to say on the subject:

https://youtu.be/BwJ0DYsBZfw

More of Joanna Williams. A very interesting interview, I think.

Joanna Williams (University of Kent) joins Dave Rubin to discuss education, free speech on campus, Trump, Brexit, and more.

https://youtu.be/me9km8M0l1o

 

[Turgon]

Triumph the Insult Comic Dog did a segment on Political Correctness in Universities. It doesn't add any new information to what has already been said about PC authoritarianism on the thread, but it's pretty funny and well worth the laugh. Also worth sharing on social media, I think anyways.

https://youtu.be/j556MWGVVqI

 

[Yupo]

From video above:
"I know I look like a dog, but I identify as a shin guard."

 

[Beau]

Triumph the Insult Comic Dog did a segment on Political Correctness in Universities. It doesn't add any new information to what has already been said about PC authoritarianism on the thread, but it's pretty funny and well worth the laugh. Also worth sharing on social media, I think anyways.

I saw that earlier this year. Yes, it's funny. It's also depressing, a clear showcase of what is wrong with young adults who are the "precious snowflakes". After watching this video, one wonders how these people are going to survive in the real world. I think the answer is that they are trying to force the world to conform to their sensitivities. That's what Jordan Peterson is fighting against, because it is a form of fascism. Just what has been done to these people's minds that they act this way? :(

 

[Yupo]

Yes, it's funny. It's also depressing, a clear showcase of what is wrong with young adults who are the "precious snowflakes".

I am going through this with a college-age child (gender being an artificial construct and all that). Our tax dollars are hard at work teaching kids this nonsense in schools. She found the video rather offensive. I did get her to agree with the absurdity of a creature identifying as a shin guard to get a special pass for rude behavior. To be fair to her, she is pretty smart and I cannot say for sure if she is just blending in or not. She understands the value of hiding in plain sight.

I do think what will tip the boat back in the right direction is for everyone to go along with this and identify away. It could be interesting to watch as widespread chaos ensues.

 

[Turgon]

Triumph the Insult Comic Dog did a segment on Political Correctness in Universities. It doesn't add any new information to what has already been said about PC authoritarianism on the thread, but it's pretty funny and well worth the laugh. Also worth sharing on social media, I think anyways.

I saw that earlier this year. Yes, it's funny. It's also depressing, a clear showcase of what is wrong with young adults who are the "precious snowflakes". After watching this video, one wonders how these people are going to survive in the real world. I think the answer is that they are trying to force the world to conform to their sensitivities. That's what Jordan Peterson is fighting against, because it is a form of fascism. Just what has been done to these people's minds that they act this way? :(

My sister goes to U of T and is taking one of the science programs, Kinesiology, but she is still taught some philosophical literature. After reading through some of that material a few weeks ago, I can see why a lot of them are coming out of University with no sense of themselves or the world around them, especially if they are taking courses like gender studies or philosophy as a major. The philosophy literature they are being taught, or at least the small bits I read seemed convoluted and mixes ideas and concepts together that doesn't make sense - as if it's meant to be complex or confusing so that it's not understood, yet also lacking in a foundation or base to the ideas themselves. And if students aren't questioning any of this and accepting the material into their psyche's then I think you get a lot of precious snowflakes who know even less about the world then when going into university but are filled with a lot of "ideas" that aren't grounded or based in reality. It is depressing...

 

[mkrnhr]

The more I look into the PC authoritarians, the more it looks like a developmental issue. There's an ideological dimension of course, but it doesn't explain everything. When we were kids in school, there was a heavy indoctrination as well. However, between kids we used to say something like "yeah yeah, give them what they ask for on the exams but we know it's all rubbish". On the other hand, other kids were swallowed by it.

These PC authoritarians seem to have missed a few episodes in their development process, probably starting from infancy. It's not just intellectual laziness they are afflicted with (which is kind of excusable after one is crushed by the work life, but not as a post-adolescent with supposedly nothing else to worry about but learning and experiencing life) but also have very immature social and emotional lives. They look life adults on the outside but inside they're still babies. Just for a small example among many others, kids today do not play, they do not form spontaneous friendships or alliances, and they do not form social bounds, and that goes on until adulthood (in a biological sense). An ideology that maintains that state of helplessness can only be successful because it fits with their inability to adapt to the world, to new encounters, to new information, etc. because they haven't learned how to change, grow and adapt.

 

[Joe]

Here's another guy's take on the 'millennial' problem

https://youtu.be/hER0Qp6QJNU

 

[Glenn]

Very funny, but oh so true most of it.

Family get togethers now entail walking into a room with most flipping through cell phones. Only look up to say hi, then back to the phone.

Here's another guy's take on the 'millennial' problem

https://youtu.be/hER0Qp6QJNU

 

[Oxajil]

I came across the following the other day. An 85 year old social worker wrote to a LGBT+ Google plus page:

Hello, I am Ernst Steiner, a social worker who is the founder of Heart Progress and a progressive activist. I have worked to fund gay rights campaigns across the globe. As an open-minded person, I work to help change society in a logical and reasonable manner. So, I have decided to bring up a topic that may be deemed controversial to some, but is still important.

I know that there are plenty of pedosexuals out there, and I know you are probably scared to come out and talk about your feelings, so I have decided to create a post for the most discriminated group in modern society.

Now, this topic is strictly for the discussion of pedosexuality, pedosexual rights, and ways we can make a difference. It is NOT for you to share illegal content. If you are not a pedosexual, then you are still welcome to join this discussion, but please refrain from bigotry and hate, and PLEASE be open-minded. Education is key for progress.

Please keep in mind that I am not a pedosexual, I simply support the rights of those who are different. Please be open-minded, and please be empathetic with those different than you. Be sure to join my community, "Heart Progress", for further discussion of this topic and others that have to do with LBGT rights, and much more.

He also wrote: "Pedosexuals need the LBGT movement, as they are a persecuted minority group of human beings who deserve to at least be persecuted less severely. Plenty of studies have shown that their behavior is not nearly as harmful as originally thought, and that they can actually help a child develop, so why persecute these people who are born in such a way that people have a tendency to blindly hate?"

And: "I just want to help people realize that more progress can be made in the name of acceptance and equality."

Right... Luckily he doesn't have much of a following, but I can imagine there are individuals like him out there who are trying to get pedophilia to be accepted. I wouldn't be surprised if at some point the social justice warriors will start supporting these people.

 

[Glenn]

I came across the following the other day. An 85 year old social worker wrote to a LGBT+ Google plus page:

Hello, I am Ernst Steiner, a social worker who is the founder of Heart Progress and a progressive activist. I have worked to fund gay rights campaigns across the globe. As an open-minded person, I work to help change society in a logical and reasonable manner. So, I have decided to bring up a topic that may be deemed controversial to some, but is still important.

I know that there are plenty of pedosexuals out there, and I know you are probably scared to come out and talk about your feelings, so I have decided to create a post for the most discriminated group in modern society.

Now, this topic is strictly for the discussion of pedosexuality, pedosexual rights, and ways we can make a difference. It is NOT for you to share illegal content. If you are not a pedosexual, then you are still welcome to join this discussion, but please refrain from bigotry and hate, and PLEASE be open-minded. Education is key for progress.

Please keep in mind that I am not a pedosexual, I simply support the rights of those who are different. Please be open-minded, and please be empathetic with those different than you. Be sure to join my community, "Heart Progress", for further discussion of this topic and others that have to do with LBGT rights, and much more.

He also wrote: "Pedosexuals need the LBGT movement, as they are a persecuted minority group of human beings who deserve to at least be persecuted less severely. Plenty of studies have shown that their behavior is not nearly as harmful as originally thought, and that they can actually help a child develop, so why persecute these people who are born in such a way that people have a tendency to blindly hate?"

And: "I just want to help people realize that more progress can be made in the name of acceptance and equality."

Right... Luckily he doesn't have much of a following, but I can imagine there are individuals like him out there who are trying to get pedophilia to be accepted. I wouldn't be surprised if at some point the social justice warriors will start supporting these people.

I am sure that is part of the social justice playbook. Just waiting for the right time to implement it. Pretty repugnant stuff.

 

[duyunne]

I came across the following the other day. An 85 year old social worker wrote to a LGBT+ Google plus page:

Hello, I am Ernst Steiner, a social worker who is the founder of Heart Progress and a progressive activist. I have worked to fund gay rights campaigns across the globe. As an open-minded person, I work to help change society in a logical and reasonable manner. So, I have decided to bring up a topic that may be deemed controversial to some, but is still important.

I know that there are plenty of pedosexuals out there, and I know you are probably scared to come out and talk about your feelings, so I have decided to create a post for the most discriminated group in modern society.

Now, this topic is strictly for the discussion of pedosexuality, pedosexual rights, and ways we can make a difference. It is NOT for you to share illegal content. If you are not a pedosexual, then you are still welcome to join this discussion, but please refrain from bigotry and hate, and PLEASE be open-minded. Education is key for progress.

Please keep in mind that I am not a pedosexual, I simply support the rights of those who are different. Please be open-minded, and please be empathetic with those different than you. Be sure to join my community, "Heart Progress", for further discussion of this topic and others that have to do with LBGT rights, and much more.

He also wrote: "Pedosexuals need the LBGT movement, as they are a persecuted minority group of human beings who deserve to at least be persecuted less severely. Plenty of studies have shown that their behavior is not nearly as harmful as originally thought, and that they can actually help a child develop, so why persecute these people who are born in such a way that people have a tendency to blindly hate?"

And: "I just want to help people realize that more progress can be made in the name of acceptance and equality."

Right... Luckily he doesn't have much of a following, but I can imagine there are individuals like him out there who are trying to get pedophilia to be accepted. I wouldn't be surprised if at some point the social justice warriors will start supporting these people.

The lack of moral obligation to protect the pre developed potential of children should be the focus when faced with this type of psychotic secenario.

I'm mortified by Steiner's insensitive narrative. At least the moderator of that group showed their discomfort with his attempt to slide his movement into their content.

 

[bjorb]

I came across the following the other day. An 85 year old social worker wrote to a LGBT+ Google plus page:

Hello, I am Ernst Steiner, a social worker who is the founder of Heart Progress and a progressive activist. I have worked to fund gay rights campaigns across the globe. As an open-minded person, I work to help change society in a logical and reasonable manner. So, I have decided to bring up a topic that may be deemed controversial to some, but is still important.

I know that there are plenty of pedosexuals out there, and I know you are probably scared to come out and talk about your feelings, so I have decided to create a post for the most discriminated group in modern society.

Now, this topic is strictly for the discussion of pedosexuality, pedosexual rights, and ways we can make a difference. It is NOT for you to share illegal content. If you are not a pedosexual, then you are still welcome to join this discussion, but please refrain from bigotry and hate, and PLEASE be open-minded. Education is key for progress.

Please keep in mind that I am not a pedosexual, I simply support the rights of those who are different. Please be open-minded, and please be empathetic with those different than you. Be sure to join my community, "Heart Progress", for further discussion of this topic and others that have to do with LBGT rights, and much more.

He also wrote: "Pedosexuals need the LBGT movement, as they are a persecuted minority group of human beings who deserve to at least be persecuted less severely. Plenty of studies have shown that their behavior is not nearly as harmful as originally thought, and that they can actually help a child develop, so why persecute these people who are born in such a way that people have a tendency to blindly hate?"

And: "I just want to help people realize that more progress can be made in the name of acceptance and equality."

Right... Luckily he doesn't have much of a following, but I can imagine there are individuals like him out there who are trying to get pedophilia to be accepted. I wouldn't be surprised if at some point the social justice warriors will start supporting these people.

Sick, I bet they also want 'social justice' for Dutroux and every pedophile out there convicted by these 'racist' laws which prosecuted pedophiles just because they are different.