Jordan Peterson: Gender Pronouns and Free Speech War

Fortunately, this manual –although the tittle may confuse by all the insanity about gender pronouns that we had seen, is about the changing to the use of inclusive language (inclusive referring to including women) in the written and oral practices of public institutions, especially those in contact with the population.

Personally, I think we shouldn't give the gender-benders even one tiny inch. The examples you cited really worry me, even though it appears they are much less extreme than force-feeding us new gender pronouns and the like.

A good example of these "wolfs in sheep's clothing" in English is the use of "she" as a general pronoun, as in "if an athlete falls down, she might break her legs". Looks innocent enough, no? All about fairness and recognition of women? I don't think so.

What happens with such rules is that authors often censor themselves and simply avoid using such constructions. Big red flag! Also, are we still allowed to use "he" in such sentences sometimes? If so, how often? It just muddles our brains.

Also, such "inventions" remove our language from reality. For example, it would make perfect sense to say "if a firefighter enters a building, he must be careful", because firefighters are mostly men. It's reality. Also, it would make sense to say "if a nurse works long hours, she should be paid more", because most nurses are women. So these sorts of rules rob us of common sense.

Most importantly though, we need to recognize that these new language rules have nothing to do with "fairness to women" or anything like that. The underlying theory is this: "the evil patriarchy perpetuates itself using evil patriarchal language. But this is unconscious (the overwhelming majority of women doesn't care at all!). So in order to re-engineer society, we must force people to use a new language, so that we re-program them to break the evil spell of the patriarchy." That's what it's all about. "And since people won't like it, because they are still under the spell of the evil patriarchy, we must reprogram them in stages - beginning with seemingly innocent new rules." It's plain evil.

Now, there are cases where it's not about this underlying theory and where these things are aligned with reality that I'm willing to concede. For example, in German we have a male and female form for job-titles and "people words" such as "colleagues". So in a letter to your colleagues, you would write "Dear colleagues [f] and colleagues [m], ..." - this is fine with me because it's a fact that there are female colleagues now, as opposed to the past where you had only male colleagues. It's like saying "Dear ladies and gentlemen" in a speech where you address both men and women. Putting women first is also gentleman-like (is that patriarchal!?).

So no: use real, reality-based language everywhere where you can get away with it! Everything that feeds the "we need to subvert the patriarchy" approach and muddies your brain should be rejected, 100%. If you concede even an inch, the ideologically possessed will use this to go one inch further. That's how I see it at least.
 
Personally, I think we shouldn't give the gender-benders even one tiny inch.
Hear hear !!! You are absolutely right. We the Sane People are the Majority no matter what the Davos/Bilderberger Group may think. This is being pushed down on us from up there. We in turn should ridicule this in any way we can. Make jokes, grin when confronted by them like high school student Nicholas Sandmann and who knows you might win $250 million thanks to them.

Go Nick !!!!,
 
I don't know about that manual, but all the suggestions I've heard of so far are totally ridiculous (and the same in French). You would have to alter the entire grammatical system and vocabulary just to make those people happy. They might as well impose Chinese or something as a new language.

Not sure if people caught this (speaking of new or twisting language) by David Stove back in 1986 'A Farewell to Arts: Marxism, Semiotics and Feminism' - over on SoTT.

Okay, this guy was writing in 1986 - waving red flags with his critique from his 'Examples 1, 2 and 3' infecting the Arts. It was loud and clear. Here we are 33 years later and these twisted languages got a bigger foothold, now being taught and carried on uninterrupted with scant criticism (and no MSM press that wants to dive in except to attack). People like JP and others know well the effects of what criticism throws back.

Moreover, young people enter university trusting (and not knowing the subject foundations) that they will be taught well by smart academics might not, or can't even see the foundation being laid down from the examples 1, 2 and 3 that Stove brings to light coming at them; and his examples were the tip of the iceberg. Unfortunately, Stove had pointed out (basically) that it may be past the point of return without a major retooling - this was again in 1986.

It is difficult to be optimistic that things will improve, and so for now people like JP are part of the attempt at retooling of which more help is needed at the highest educational levels. However is it really any wonder that things are where they are at from this incremental social engineering process that at the same time is a danger for academics to even talk about openly.
 
So no: use real, reality-based language everywhere where you can get away with it! Everything that feeds the "we need to subvert the patriarchy" approach and muddies your brain should be rejected, 100%. If you concede even an inch, the ideologically possessed will use this to go one inch further. That's how I see it at least.
I guess, one gets tired of the based sexist and androcentric spanish language, how I cannot concede it? I understand that, it can be use as an step to go further, as the newly birth certificate, but deep inside I really wish things change, and abuse and violence against mexican women through the expression language cease to exist.
 
I guess, one gets tired of the based sexist and androcentric spanish language, how I cannot concede it? I understand that, it can be use as an step to go further, as the newly birth certificate, but deep inside I really wish things change, and abuse and violence against mexican women through the expression language cease to exist.

Perhaps not to hijack this thread, you could start a new one on the Spanish section of the forum, and give examples of what you wrote about? I think you may be confusing a certain cultural trait or problem (if that), with language itself, but maybe with more examples it can be discussed and compared to what is happening in NorthAmerica and with non-gendered languages.
 
Yes I think all adults with no axes to grind and a fairly decent education will totally ignore gender pronouns, etc. The real problem lies with young children just starting schools. They will not stand a chance and will be totally confused learning one thing at home and another at school. It's the young they aim for and as we know they work to get results in the long run .
 
So no: use real, reality-based language everywhere where you can get away with it! Everything that feeds the "we need to subvert the patriarchy" approach and muddies your brain should be rejected, 100%. If you concede even an inch, the ideologically possessed will use this to go one inch further. That's how I see it at least.

Yeah, and I can imagine all the psychos gravitating towards this Orwellian gender-neutral business of changing emotional words like 'Mother' and 'Father' into more 'shallow' versions, since their brains can't 'read' the affective information in these original words. For them there's probably not that much difference between words 'Mother' and 'Parent 1'
 
This is a relatively recent interview with Jordan, and at one point, he is asked about "the wave" (at 50:24), meaning this particular point in time where so many possibilities open up. Found that interesting in light of the Wave. After some talk about technological changes etc., Jordan really gets at the heart of the matter.

 
Peterson was on RT's Going Underground with Afshin Rattansi. Pretty good conversation! Rattansi asked some hard questions, but not the typical cliched ones that critical interviewers usually ask, so it was refreshing:

 
This is totally nuts because Jordan Petersons book 12 Rules was banned by the biggest publisher in New Zealand since the recent attack.

“Unfortunately, 12 Rules for Life is currently unavailable,” said a customer representative for Whitcoulls, the country’s largest bookseller with more than 50 stores in New Zealand and an online business.

“(It) is a decision that Whitcoulls has made in light of some extremely disturbing material being circulated prior, during and after the Christchurch attacks.

 
it is ridiculous , how fast these guys removing videos from social media and now JBP's book. This is another sign that this is false flag operation. If this is true, they will start clamping down more on every thing left extremists doesn't like.
Whitcoulls did not explain any connection between Peterson and the Christchurch tragedy or the alleged gunman.

Among his fans are some white supremacy adherents, but neither Peterson nor his book is referenced anywhere in the 74-page manifesto allegedly released by the killer prior to the March 15 attacks. The treatise says the murder spree was in response to Muslim immigration, characterized as “an invasion” threatening the white population.
...
Peterson is posing with a man in a T-shirt that says “I’m a Proud ISLAMAPHOBE” and, in smaller print, lists inflammatory slurs against Muslims and concludes: “I love dogs, bacon and the FREEDOM to hate Islam but not the individual.”

The photo was one of more than 100 pictures of people who purchased VIP access to his lecture, which included a personal photograph, hosted by OMG VIP, a company that arranges for fans “to be up close and personal with their favorite musicians, comedians, athletes, writers, and other celebrities.”
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“It is outrageous how the left improperly uses crises to attack their enemies and create false analogies. The rules teach assuming personal responsibility,” said Peterson’s lawyer for civil suits, Howard Levitt.

Levitt added he had not consulted with Peterson on this matter and was not speaking for him on it.
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“My radical leftist critics insist that I am appealing purposefully, effectively, greedily and politically to disaffected and angry young white men,” he wrote and then added it was “self-serving and false.”

“There has not been a single event of any violent or even vaguely aggressive nature at any of the venues I have spoken at, despite the 300,000 hypothetically angry people in attendance … people are not attending for political reasons — just as I am not speaking for political purposes.”
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Jordanetics: A Journey Into the Mind of Humanity’s Greatest Thinker by Vox Day with a foreward by Milo Yiannopoulos was available for sale, as was Political Correctness, a recitation of the 2018 Munk Debate that includes Peterson as an author.
 
Peterson was on RT's Going Underground with Afshin Rattansi. Pretty good conversation! Rattansi asked some hard questions, but not the typical cliched ones that critical interviewers usually ask, so it was refreshing:


Watched it and I was glad that Rattansi asked a couple of hard questions people who know the deeds of the empire and their vassals over the decades would ask Peterson who seems to gloss over most of that. Glad he also brought up the dark deeds of Churchill when Peterson talked about him shortly. It seems to me though that Peterson somewhat carefully maneuvered out of those valid things Rattansi brought up, essentially because he is pretty much under the "greatness of the west and its achievements" spell. I think Peterson had such a easy time to not really address those things Rattansi was trying to get at partly because, even though the questions were far better than the average journalist would ask, they were still far to open and "attackable" on other fronts for such a sharp guy like Peterson.

Would be good if people like Rattansi would have more conversations with Peterson in the future. Having said that, Peterson's missions isn't really to discuss geopolitical stuff accurately but to guide (especially western) people back to the basics of the "work on the self" and spirituality which is what he is remarkably good at.
 
Would be good if people like Rattansi would have more conversations with Peterson in the future. Having said that, Peterson's missions isn't really to discuss geopolitical stuff accurately but to guide (especially western) people back to the basics of the "work on the self" and spirituality which is what he is remarkably good at.

It was because of this that I found Rattansi's interview irritating. Peterson is not a proper historian, nor is he a political commentator, yet I felt R. was asking him to be both. I thought the segment was going to be on the Cambridge situation. They barely touched on it.
 
Mexican Musician Commits Suicide Hours After #MeToo Accusations
Armando Vega Gil, 64, bass player for the Mexican rock band Botellita de Jerez, killed himself Monday hours after being publicly accused of sexual misconduct. The claims, brought forth by an anonymous young woman via the Twitter account MeTooMùsicosMexicanos, alleges that the incident took place when she was 13.

In a post that appears to be his suicide note on his Twitter page, Vega Gil denied the allegations and expressed concern over how this might affect his son.

"What I want least is for my son to be affected by the false accusation that have been made against me," reads the letter. "I must clarify that my death is not a confession of public culpability, on the contrary, it is a radical declaration of innocence; I just want to clear the path my child goes through in the future. His orphanhood is a terrible way to violate it, but a terrible end is better than an endless terror."

He went on to apologize to women, "who feel troubled by my words and attitudes, and the women who see my ways as misogynistic."

The woman said she visited Vega Gil's house on two different occasions with friends when she was 13 and he was 50, with the second being the last after the entire party felt uncomfortable when the musician began taking their pictures. After that last encounter, the musician continued to contact her via MSN messenger: "He said things that were more and more disgusting and sexually explicit. I decided to block him and change my cellphone."

When the pair met later on, the unidentified woman noted that Vega Gil had acted like nothing happened all those years ago.

"It took me a lot of years to understand what happened and everything that could have happened. If I had had an extra gram of innocence and had gone to his house alone, I'm sure that old man would have abused me," she wrote. ---an anonymous she
"I'm sure I'm not the only one, I'm terrified to know that there are people who probably have not had the same luck with this guy, and who have fallen into his wicked game."

"[Vega Gil] is dedicated to writing books for children and adolescents, and they are stories that if you know the perverse side of the author, they are very sinister," she added.

Botellita de Jerez announced on Twitter following the news of Vega Gil's death that a vigil would be held Monday night in Mexico City at the Gayosso funeral home. Although the band did confirm Vega Gil's death on social media, authorities in Mexico have yet to confirm if the body found was that of the musician.

Botellita de Jerez started in Mexico City in 1982 and was a fusion of rock, cumbia and more traditional Mexican music. After more than 30 years of performing together, the band broke up in 2013.

The #MeToo movement has gained momentum in Mexico in recent weeks, with hundreds of men facing accusations from women coming forward with claims of sexual harassment and assault.

[URL='https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mexico-musician-metoo-suicide/mexican-rock-star-commits-suicide-after-metoo-accusation-idUSKCN1RE05A' said:
Mexican rock star commits suicide after #MeToo accusation[/URL]]
...
[URL='https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mexico-musician-metoo-suicide/mexican-rock-star-commits-suicide-after-metoo-accusation-idUSKCN1RE05A' said:
The representative for Botellita de Jerez, Paola Hernandez, said she spoke with Vega Gil at around 2.00 a.m., some two hours before his death.

“He was really sad and pissed off, he didn’t know how to clear his name. He said he wasn’t guilty ... he was worried about how his son would take all this,” Hernandez said during a radio interview.

Vega Gil’s death sparked an acrimonious debate on Mexican social media. Some argued that if he was innocent he should have cleared his name in Mexico’s justice system, while others said the court of public opinion, especially online, had already found him guilty and permanently muddied his reputation.

Vega Gil ended his letter saying: “Don’t blame anyone for my death, this suicide is a conscious, voluntary, free and personal decision. Hasta pronto.”

Some from this ...hate movement, this is so wrong... and just like that, the movement disregard the death of someone
https://twitter.com/metoomusicamx said:
Open space to denounce aggressions in the music industry. Send a DM with your anonymous complaint and we will publish the name of the aggressor.
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The movement is not to blame for Armando Vega-Gil's suicide and all the evidence is on this public channel. Any media that discredits the real testimony of the victims calling us murderers clearly has a personal vendetta against #MeToo.
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Armando Vega-Gil's suicide was a painful personal decision. We invite the media to stop creating controversy and start creating real awareness about mental health.
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VM: Crime is to defame, crime is to accuse in the shadow, crime is to leave in a few lines resentment, hatred and evil. A crime is to say goodbye in advance because of evidence that is not there. What more do you ask? They are already watching, your revenge is consummated, your morality should not claim anything, or maybe yes.

answers from the movement:
No. It's not a crime anymore.
Find out. Defamation suits no longer apply. with a glyph ??????
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using deeple.com

There is a recent article in NYT about related movement How a Young Activist Set Off a #MeToo Avalanche in Mexico

with english subtitles
No more anonymous sexual harassment complaints

edit
 
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