Jordan Peterson: Gender Pronouns and Free Speech War

[T.C.]

YouTube threw this suggestion at me and I had a looksee. It's amazing how deep YouTube's rabbit hole goes, how much great stuff there is to be found, -and just how much of it is not lightweight cat video nonsense, but rather deeply thoughtful, complex and demanding of careful attention. I can certainly see why Peterson thinks that YouTube (or something like it) could provide the means for an equivalent of a university education, (at least on the lecture side of things, I'd add).

At what looks like her kitchen table, this youtuber offers some forthright thoughts on the psychological fallout which occurs when men are universally considered toxic, Enemy #1 and without value in their traditional roles.

Beyond it being relevant to those interested in the immediate dating game, it is also I think probably a deliberate result of the species engineering going on today from a 4D perspective. How do you breed masculine traits out of a species and thus render them more manageable?

While I have seen some Real Men (tm) who are building families today, I am seeing them outnumbered by a lot of mincing hyper-agreeable beta males who are able to shelve their pride and individuality and their true opinions, (if they still have any left), etc., in order to become successful in mating. They're pathetic, but they're winning the genetics game, and boy, does that ever piss me off! -And almost entirely because I hate to see a manipulative exploit being played successfully on the human race. It makes me want to get married and have kids.

Yeah, she's got some great content this lady. She actually called out Peterson "open letter" style over his comments and assessment of the MGTOW culture (men who go their own way).

Not long afterwards in an interview, JP was asked if he had any regrets on anything he'd said or done, and he said that he'd made a bit of a mistake on MGTOW - not been nueanced enough and been too judgemental.

There was probably more backlash towards JP from others, but I think the video she made had a large influence.

 

[Alejo]

I ran into this tweet thread today. And I’m not sure, I feel Gabor Mate is reading JBP through the less of the portrayal that his opposition presents, I do think he’s onto something as far as unexpressed emotions and so on, but I think that he’s not looking at it completely and JBP has attempted and succeeded to a great degree to live above those “demons” and act for the benefit of all despite their prevalence in his life.

What do you guys think?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1059220087234879488

 

[SlipNet]

Oh, and for forum members in the UK, Peterson will be a guest on the BBC Political show Question Time next Thursday 10:45pm. Should be a good one.

It might be that Peterson will be on the following Thursday, rather than this week. It's definitely one or the other, I just can't remember.

 

[Hi_Henry]

You can grab it here:
DO NOT link to or embed that URL publicly anywhere, or the CBC will be after us!

I have a copy now just in-case. Thanks Scottie

 

[T.C.]

I ran into this tweet thread today. And I’m not sure, I feel Gabor Mate is reading JBP through the less of the portrayal that his opposition presents, I do think he’s onto something as far as unexpressed emotions and so on, but I think that he’s not looking at it completely and JBP has attempted and succeeded to a great degree to live above those “demons” and act for the benefit of all despite their prevalence in his life.

What do you guys think?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1059220087234879488

I don't get what Mate's point is.

He's a self-avowed Marxist though, so he's never going to be a fan of Peterson. An addiction specialist with his political leanings will tend to promote the idea that those who end up at rock bottom and in dire straights are not at fault for what has happened to them - it's the fault of their culture and society.

In a neo-marxist reality of everyone's personality being a result of cultural programming, there is no such thing as personal responsibility.

 

[Beau]

I ran into this tweet thread today. And I’m not sure, I feel Gabor Mate is reading JBP through the less of the portrayal that his opposition presents, I do think he’s onto something as far as unexpressed emotions and so on, but I think that he’s not looking at it completely and JBP has attempted and succeeded to a great degree to live above those “demons” and act for the benefit of all despite their prevalence in his life.

What do you guys think?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1059220087234879488

I'm not really finding Mate's arguments that convincing. Not sure why he felt the need to do a psychological breakdown of a man he's (I'm assuming) never met and talked to in person, but I find that strange. Anyway, I have some responses to what he's saying there:

2/ His "rather intractable autoimmune condition", as all such conditions, is doubtless a bodily expression of the emotions his mind/personality will not consciously allow.

If that's the case, then now come JP going to an all-meat diet has practically cured him of that condition? Isn't that the flaw in Mate's logic?

4/ Peterson no doubt genuinely means to empower young men (and perhaps women) with his "12 Rules for Living". And indeed, responsibility and knowledge of self are positive and healthful qualities—but ONLY if accompanied by a fully explored emotional life.

I don't understand why Mate feels the need to point that out. JP would agree with him. So because JP has an autoimmune disorder, Mate thinks JP's entire stoic philosophy is "flawed" and that JP has an unexpressed emotional life. Where is the proof in that? Mate only presents JP's health issues as the "proof". Well, as we've seen here on this forum, a lot of people have autoimmune disorders for reasons that go beyond Mate's boilerplate answer of "unexpressed emotions". Some people have really sensitive systems, bad DNA and have to be very careful about what they put in their body, and when they do that their health improves rapidly. There are more answers to one's issues than just what Mate has thought up in his head.

5/ Sadly his message, like his health, is being compromised by a choked rage that distorts his world-view. Hence his appeal to those who, perceiving themselves as victimized by the culture & threatened by social change, seek comforting explanations for their anger and insecurity.

JP has a distorted worldview? Mate reveals his leftist bias here, which should then be taken into account when reading all the previous comments about JP. If JP has rage about anything, it's about seeing a repeat of the totalitarian political and social systems that led to the deaths of millions of people in the 20th century, systems that were Marxist in their ideology. There is nothing "suppressed" about the rage that JP feels in his desire for the West not to go down that path. His emotions about that are on his sleeve, and perhaps that is what bothers Mate so much.

How exactly is JP's message being "compromised" then? There is no explanation given by Mate.

 

[Hi_Henry]

TV used to have fairly good interviews, like back in time with Velikovsky, and I still keep track of CBC's angles on the news and what they promote, though. However, what they have become is a shadow of their former selves (embedded with the usual types of leftist talking heads), not that they were not always interested in time in selling the imperial/NATO/globalist message; it's full bore now.

The same happened to BBC and NPR in the US. After 2001 it all went south. I don't waist my time watching them, period.

 

[Cosmos]

I ran into this tweet thread today. And I’m not sure, I feel Gabor Mate is reading JBP through the less of the portrayal that his opposition presents, I do think he’s onto something as far as unexpressed emotions and so on, but I think that he’s not looking at it completely and JBP has attempted and succeeded to a great degree to live above those “demons” and act for the benefit of all despite their prevalence in his life.

What do you guys think?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1059220087234879488

First I think Mate is very hazy and vague about the reasons he comes to those conclusions. It would be nice if Mate could provide a clear and understandable line of thinking that has lead to this view. I sense it might have more to do with the projected image of Peterson in the mainstream, than anything else.

So Mate should provide some concrete reasoning for coming to those conclusions. And calling his meat diet "doubtless a bodily expression of the emotions his mind/personality will not consciously allow. " is more then a bit uninformed and one sides IMO. In many cases choosing such a diet is primarily an expression of knowledge, and a desire and need for some fuel that doesn't create so much problems for oneself and thus others.

By the way, here is the rest:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1059220088161779712

https://twitter.com/x/status/1059220090795802624

https://twitter.com/x/status/1059220092695822336

 

[Ca.]

I ran into this tweet thread today. And I’m not sure, I feel Gabor Mate is reading JBP through the less of the portrayal that his opposition presents, I do think he’s onto something as far as unexpressed emotions and so on, but I think that he’s not looking at it completely and JBP has attempted and succeeded to a great degree to live above those “demons” and act for the benefit of all despite their prevalence in his life.

What do you guys think?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1059220087234879488

Gabor Maté has an agenda. I think he's also jealous and a product of the Canadian liberal left (and the CBC).
And full of early childhood truma and anger. My 2 cents!

[SIZE=4]_https://www.cbc.ca/books/dr-gabor-mat%C3%A9-1.4792058[/SIZE]

Why Dr. Gabor Maté disagrees with Dr. Jordan Peterson on his teachings of responsibilities

Sep 24, 2018

Life and career
Born in Budapest, Hungary in 1944, he is a Jewish survivor of the Holocaust. His maternal grandparents were killed in Auschwitz when he was five months old, his aunt disappeared during the war, and his father endured forced labour at the hands of the Nazis.[3] He emigrated to Canada with his family in 1956. He was a student radical during the Vietnam War era in the late 1960s[4] and graduated with a B.A. from the University of British Columbia in Vancouver. He worked for a few years as a high school English and literature teacher, and later returned to school to pursue his childhood dream of being a physician

External links

• Official site
• Video and audio interviews with Dr. Gabor Maté and Democracy Now! (some with transcripts)

 

[Navigator]

JP has a distorted worldview? Mate reveals his leftist bias here, which should then be taken into account when reading all the previous comments about JP.

Well, he has said explicitly in the video posted by c.a. that he is "a Marxist intellectual".

 

[luc]

I think Mate's leftist bias clearly comes through here, or at least he sees a cartoon-Peterson through the lens of leftist propaganda. It's as if his (ideological) mind collects puzzle pieces that he then brings together to form the picture he already knew and wants to form. That's why what he says kind of makes sense, but not really. As Beau said, there's nothing repressed about Peterson's anger. It's very real and well-integrated from what I can tell.

 

[Yas]

Me first impression was too that Mate is very vague and doesn't give a strong argument at all. I kind of can understand where he's coming from by knowing his work, but for me he's lacking a wider, deeper, perspective-which is what we find in JBP's work.

I would say that although Mate's work is very insightful and helpful, JBP's "stoic Gospel" which focus much more on responsibility and touches on fundamental existential dilemmas were more helpful to me personally... And seem to be very helpful to lots of people too.

Another thing I'd say is that Mate's criticism is actually contradictory to the article he cited. Peterson is actually exposing those emotions in that article, he's actually doing something with them, so he isn't repressing them. To me, it shows that he's quite aware of them and is trying to channel them properly... OSIT. So, yeah, it seems rather strange to me that Mate didn't see it like that.

 

[Hi_Henry]

there is no such thing as personal responsibility.

I think you hit it on the nail.

I read his Tweet and found it extremely "floatsome". Neither here nor there. Plenty of verbiage but nothing to take home and move forward with. That is where JBP differs. He has a positive course of action that will move the person following it FORWARD.

 

[T.C.]

I think you hit it on the nail.

I read his Tweet and found it extremely "floatsome". Neither here nor there. Plenty of verbiage but nothing to take home and move forward with. That is where JBP differs. He has a positive course of action that will move the person following it FORWARD.

I found In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts much the same. Plenty of sob stories, nothing much about what can be done about addiction other than on a societal and cultural level. "Addicts are demonised, so not enough is done on the macro to help them, and that's why they suffer so."

I didn't take much of anything useful for it anyway.

 

[Tristan]

As a matter of fact, I think Gabor Maté gave me some answers, insightful inspirations or tools to understand my "failures" mostly considering unexpressed emotions that comes from past wounds, in a particular way, a proposition that was good enough for a certain period of time. In the light of this information it was then possible to identify a number of key issues, so to say. While through JBP I was able to expand my perspective much more, and he happened to be at the right time...