Jordan Peterson perfectly defines STO

Beau

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#46
Add it all up, and Peterson had made about $10 million in the past year. But he sure earned it, and then some.
At least he's not apparently resting on his laurels. Planning a follow-up book to 12 Rules and I assume more traveling to give talks on that book. He has also talked about using funds to create his own "online university", but the move away from Patreon may slow that down.
 
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fabric

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#47
At least he's not apparently resting on his laurels. Planning a follow-up book to 12 Rules and I assume more traveling to give talks on that book. He has also talked about using funds to create his own "online university", but the move away from Patreon may slow that down.
In his most recent Q & A he talks about the book. Apparently aiming for January 2020 for publishing. As with his other Q & A's it's pretty good! These are the new rules according to him:

  1. Do not carelessly denigrate social institutions or creative achievement
  2. Imagine who you could be and then aim single-mindedly at that
  3. Work as hard as you possibly can on at least one thing and see what happens
  4. Do not hide unwanted things in the fog
  5. Abandon ideology
  6. Notice that opportunity lurks where responsibility has been abdicated
  7. Do not do things that you hate
  8. Try to make one room in your house as beautiful as possible
  9. If old memories still make you cry write them down carefully and completely
  10. Plan and work diligently to maintain the romance in your relationship
  11. Be grateful in spite of your suffering
  12. Do not allow yourself to become resentful, deceitful or arrogant

Of the many questions, I really liked how he answered the one below, and found it very apt. One thing that I thought of is how useful posting on the forum and working on SoTT can be towards working to that end.

Q: You have talked about earning your knowledge. How do you define this and earn it? When is it ok to debate ideas like yours if they are not your own?

JPB: I would say it's okay to debate them right away if what you're trying to do is to test them and learn more about them. It’s not okay if you're trying to put them forward as if they're your own and to obtain something approximating unearned moral superiority by doing so. That means to have the ideas and to discuss them but not to identify with them as if they are defining features of your own personality.

How do you earn knowledge?

All your elementary school teachers, when you're writing an essay, said you got to put it in your own words. Think, well what does that mean? You can’t just copy a sentence - it has to be in your own words... and that was never very well explained to me but there was something to it.

For knowledge to be yours you have to integrate it with your own experience. You have to see how that applies to your own case and then have story to tell about how that's the case - that’s personal, right?

So it's the intermingling of the abstract with the personal that makes it real. It’s the intermingling of the epic with the particular, or the archetypal with the concrete that makes something real. So if an idea is still an abstraction, if you're just parroting it - it also means that you haven’t learned to use it as a tool, you haven’t started to apply it in your own life.

You could say, “well here’s an idea that I came across, and here‘s how I implemented it, and here's what I learned when I implemented it...” and then that’s definitely yours. You can kind of tell because you’re recounting your knowledge in a manner that no one else could do and that’s what gives it that ring of genuineness. That's what it means in some sense to speak from the heart.

It’s like, “well here's my experience with this idea,” and you can say too “well here‘s how I understand this idea,” and you reformulate that in your own terms. And that means that you associate it with the unique particularities of your own experience. Then I would also say it means that you've acted out the ideas and tested them in the world and that you have your own stories to tell about that. And that's how you make it your own.

It’s like you go to the tool store, the hardware store and you buy a hammer. Then you start to use the hammer to hammer in nails and you learn how to use the hammer. You learn how to use the saw and then at some point that saw sort of becomes yours. You know how to use it.

It’s the same with these ideas. You don't just say the words. You're not just a puppet mouthing the words. It becomes part and parcel of your own philosophy, the way that you perceive the world, the way that you construe things and the way that you act in the world. You've tested them and you have something to add to them that's yours personally.

If you're having a discussion with someone and they’re talking about things that don’t have those characteristics, that they haven't made personal, then the conversation is almost never interesting.

It’s because the person is just really are an empty shell through which ideology, clichés and slogans are pouring. There’s nothing about that that’s compelling because you don't see the grappling - you don't see that the other person has grappled with the ideas and come to their own unique conclusions. It really is in that mingling of the abstract and the particular that compelling wisdom is to be found.

Then concretely speaking, there’s ways of earning your knowledge and part of that is reformulating it in your own words. That’s thinking it through, right? Discussing it until you have it at hand you can talk about it and you can generalize from it because you truly understand it. A huge part of that is also putting it into practice then deriving your own conclusions as a consequence. And some of that can be done with debate.

It's like, “here's an idea I came across and here's the idea and here’s what I think it means. This is how I think it would change things if I put it into practice. This is how I understand this idea and what do you think of that?”

That's a good debate or discussion because then the other person can say, “well ,I don't really agree with the way you've formulated that,” or “I don't agree with your conclusions,” and hopefully it's a real discussion and not just one up-man-ship (because that's a pretty dull game). Then you get clearer about what it is that the idea is and how it is that you would use it as a tool in your own life. That's the right way to think about ideas too.

Partly they're tools for looking at the world with because you have to look at the world with tools because you can't look at the whole world. So you're looking at the world through a tool-like structure and then the ideas themselves are tool-like and they need to be used and worn a bit in your hands before they're yours.
The full Q & A can be seen here:

 

Breo

Jedi Master
FOTCM Member
#48
In his most recent Q & A he talks about the book. Apparently aiming for January 2020 for publishing. As with his other Q & A's it's pretty good! These are the new rules according to him:

  1. Do not carelessly denigrate social institutions or creative achievement
  2. Imagine who you could be and then aim single-mindedly at that
  3. Work as hard as you possibly can on at least one thing and see what happens
  4. Do not hide unwanted things in the fog
  5. Abandon ideology
  6. Notice that opportunity lurks where responsibility has been abdicated
  7. Do not do things that you hate
  8. Try to make one room in your house as beautiful as possible
  9. If old memories still make you cry write them down carefully and completely
  10. Plan and work diligently to maintain the romance in your relationship
  11. Be grateful in spite of your suffering
  12. Do not allow yourself to become resentful, deceitful or arrogant
Thank you Fabric to let us know that JP will continue with another 12 rules.

As I am reading "12 Rules" right now, I find JP again and again showing me new understanding of the the C´s lessons and the forums Work - at least from what I can grasp, eg. his way of refering to STO/STS aspects.

JP said:
Yours previously addicted [or neurotic, etc.] self is the tyrant of your emerging self. It is a false self, predicated on a false value system.
Isn´t that an STS aspect of how the predators mind abuses, exploits the self? As I am working now on integrating former selves, I find it helpful to be able to accept that this is who I have been or still am, to be able to turn past selves into lessons instead of being stuck with toxic shame blocks.

„For knowledge to be yours you have to integrate it with your own experience.
 

goyacobol

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
#49
Isn´t that an STS aspect of how the predators mind abuses, exploits the self? As I am working now on integrating former selves, I find it helpful to be able to accept that this is who I have been or still am, to be able to turn past selves into lessons instead of being stuck with toxic shame blocks.
Breo,

I really like the way you expressed that thought of "being stuck with toxic shame blocks". It helps me see how we need to "let go" of "toxic" memories of past lessons and move on realizing we do not have to be "stuck" in some past (even though there is no time or maybe especially because "there is no time").
 

Breo

Jedi Master
FOTCM Member
#50
Gayacobol,
yes this toxic shame block is what kept me in a frozen prison for decades and also writing little on the forum. "It" made so much selfinduced harm to my being. Being able to forgive and integrate former selves really seems to help. I am happy that you resonate with my learning 🙂.
 
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