Julian Assange Discussion

[Guardian]

Re: Soldier Betrayed by Online Informant with Wikileaks

Guardian would you care to comment on your support for Wikileaks and if you are advancing this support by using the technique of argument noted by Gonzo on the "Israel attacks Gaza thread".

I don't mind explaining something, but could you clarify exactly what you mean by "technique of argument noted by Gonzo on the "Israel attacks Gaza thread?"

As far as I know, I only have one "technique of argument" ....I write whatever I'm thinking, correct the spelling, then post it.

 

[Laura]

Re: Soldier Betrayed by Online Informant with Wikileaks

Right now, I'm watching the WikiLeaks thing with interest. I've fluctuated back and forth thinking it was an op to maybe somebody is really trying to do something. I don't think there's enough evidence on either side to make a hard and fast call on this one.

Re: Prouty and what he says about many things: let's not glorify the guy and think he had the whole cheese. He sure could have done a lot more from his conscience than he did, and the fact that he didn't means we have to consider that he, too, in a way, was just a useful idiot. He has given us a great overview of things, but there are a few things niggling in my mind about his motives.

Bottom line is this: we just need more data.

 

[Gonzo]

Re: Soldier Betrayed by Online Informant with Wikileaks

But since we don't have enough to decide one way or the other, it is safest to remain vigilant yet open to more data, OSIT.

It's an interesting observation, for myself anyway, that there are certain people whose thoughts carry more weight, Laura's having the most. When they chime in, I take notice.

Kind regards,
Gonzo

 

[Laura]

Re: Soldier Betrayed by Online Informant with Wikileaks

But since we don't have enough to decide one way or the other, it is safest to remain vigilant yet open to more data, OSIT.

It's an interesting observation, for myself anyway, that there are certain people whose thoughts carry more weight, Laura's having the most. When they chime in, I take notice.

Kind regards,
Gonzo

It should be the case that some part of you - some higher part, perhaps - steps in and says the same thing: let's observe, collect data, be patient.

Notice yourself, notice your machine, notice your attachment to your ideas, your arguments; notice the emotional flavor. When you detect that emotional "taste," know that you are very likely being duped or duping yourself.

That doesn't mean that you can't be emotional about something, but it would be better to come to a conclusion coldly and rationally and then, once you KNOW, engage your emotional horses to take you where you need to go in response-ability to that knowing.

 

[Gonzo]

Re: Soldier Betrayed by Online Informant with Wikileaks

Laura, your previous comment was fortuitous and your last a validation of sorts.

First with the bear eats man's calf discussion and then this thread, I found myself pulled in by Guardian's apparent (to me) blind adherence to a notion, seemingly unable to get distance from the emotional thinking.

While I think it more than appropriate that we challenge each other when such things arise, I found myself getting emotionally invested, almost needing to convince Guardian, and perhaps anyone else in such a situation, to recognize their investment.

Everything I wrote was to offer a counter view to blindly supporting WL, a group I personally hope is benevolent but know the PTB wouldn't let run freely for too long.

The previous night I mentioned to my wife that I was realizing my intent had grown beyond its initial purpose and started to take on an emotional flavor to it.

Thanks,
Gonzo

 

[Guardian]

Re: Soldier Betrayed by Online Informant with Wikileaks

Bottom line is this: we just need more data.

I have a feeling we'll be getting it shortly. Julian has been forced to go deep underground, because the US Government is hunting him...but that won't stop the WikiNet. Looks like a whole lot more info is going up, despite the best efforts of several governments..

I hope you get to meet/chat will Julian one day Laura, I think yawl would really get along as you have a LOT in common....and Julian could actually keep up with Ark too ;D

Hopefully one day it will be safe for him to just pop up and chat on a forum without every government computer in the US sniffing for his name so they can send in a assassination squad.

Until then, like you said, we'll just have to wait and see what "He" does.

*******

_http://2012changesarenow.blogspot.com/2010/06/julian-assange-wikileaks-founder-has.html
Wednesday, June 16, 2010
Julian Assange WikiLeaks Founder Has Massacre Video

Julian Assange, who the Feds fear may release State Dept. secrets, denies having them—but he’s readying video of a deadly U.S. airstrike in Afghanistan.

After several days underground, the founder of the secretive website WikiLeaks has gone public to disclose that he is preparing to release a classified Pentagon video of a U.S. airstrike in Afghanistan last year that left as many as 140 civilians dead, most of them children and teenagers.

*******
_http://www.theage.com.au/technology/technology-news/the-secret-life-of-wikileaks-founder-julian-assange-20100521-w1um.html
"Wikileaks, he says, has released more classified documents than the rest of the world press combined."

 

[Guardian]

Re: Soldier Betrayed by Online Informant with Wikileaks

_http://2012changesarenow.blogspot.com/2010/06/julian-assange-wikileaks-founder-has.html
Wednesday, June 16, 2010
Julian Assange WikiLeaks Founder Has Massacre Video

While denying again that WikiLeaks has the State Department cables, Assange acknowledges in the email today that he is in custody of the May 2009 video that shows the airstrike on the Afghan village of Garani, believed to be the most lethal combat strike in Afghanistan—in terms of civilian deaths—since the United States invaded the country in 2001. Assange writes that “we are still working on” preparations for release of the video of “the Garani massacre.”

The State Department and Pentagon did not immediately comment on Assange’s email message.

10, 9, 8, 7, ......

 

[Beau]

Re: Soldier Betrayed by Online Informant with Wikileaks

Wikileaks: a somewhat less redacted version of the Lamo/Manning logs

We just received this from a source requesting anonymity. It purports to be a more complete transcript of a portion of Army intelligence analyst Bradley Manning's conversation with Adrian Lamo, the hacker who reported Manning to authorities. Released in part by Wired News, and excerpted in part in a Washington Post story, the remainder was said to contain information of potential national security import. However, we don't see material of that nature in the portion of the transcript we were sent here, and neither can our lawyers.

Update: We have removed a few words regarding specifics of personal issues not directly related to the whistleblowing/national security concerns at hand.

Some of the sections which, as far as I can tell, haven't been published in "raw" form are in bold.

There's a reference here to "confession" on Manning's part. Glenn Greenwald wrote in his Salon piece published yesterday:

Lamo told me (though it doesn't appear in the chat logs published by Wired) that he told Manning early on that he was a journalist and thus could offer him confidentiality for everything they discussed under California's shield law. Lamo also said he told Manning that he was an ordained minister and could treat Manning's talk as a confession, which would then compel Lamo under the law to keep their discussions confidential (early on in their chats, Manning said: "I can't believe what I'm confessing to you"). In sum, Lamo explicitly led Manning to believe he could trust him and that their discussions would be confidential -- perhaps legally required to be kept confidential -- only to then report everything Manning said to the Government.




Transcript of the alleged log between Lamo and Manning
as sent to Wikileaks by Lamo. The transcript is clearly only a small
portion and has presumably been edited.

(12:15:11 PM) bradass87: hypothetical question: if you had free reign over
classified networks for long periods of time... say, 8-9 months... and you
saw incredible things, awful things... things that belonged in the public
domain, and not on some server stored in a dark room in Washington DC...
what would you do?
(12:16:38 PM) bradass87: or Guantanamo, Bagram, Bucca, Taji, VBC for that
matter...
(12:17:47 PM) bradass87: things that would have an impact on 6.7 billion
people
(12:21:24 PM) bradass87: say... a database of half a million events during
the iraq war... from 2004 to 2009... with reports, date time groups,
lat-lon locations, casualty figures... ? or 260,000 state department
cables from embassies and consulates all over the world, explaining how
the first world exploits the third, in detail, from an internal
perspective?
(12:22:49 PM) bradass87: the air-gap has been penetrated... =L
(12:23:19 PM) Adrian: how so?
(12:26:09 PM) Adrian: yt?
(12:26:09 PM) bradass87: lets just say *someone* i know intimately well,
has been penetrating US classified networks, mining data like the ones
described... and been transferring that data from the classified networks
over the "air gap" onto a commercial network computer... sorting the data,
compressing it, encrypting it, and uploading it to a crazy white haired
aussie who can't seem to stay in one country very long =L
(12:27:13 PM) bradass87: im here
(12:27:24 PM) Adrian: Depends. What are the particulars?
(12:28:19 PM) bradass87: theres substantial lag i think
(12:29:52 PM) Adrian: I don't understand.
(12:30:13 PM) bradass87: what was the last message you recieved?
(12:30:47 PM) Adrian: (12:28:19 PM) bradass87: theres substantial lag i think
(12:30:56 PM) bradass87: before that
(12:31:09 PM) Adrian:
(12:26:09 PM) bradass87: lets just say *someone* i know intimately well,
has been penetrating US classified networks, mining data like the ones
described... and been transferring that data from the classified networks
over the "air gap" onto a commercial network computer... sorting the data,
compressing it, encrypting it, and uploading it to a crazy white haired
aussie who can't seem to stay in one country very long =L
(12:27:13 PM) bradass87: im here
(12:27:24 PM) Adrian: Depends. What are the particulars?
(12:31:43 PM) bradass87: crazy white haired dude = Julian Assange
(12:33:05 PM) bradass87: in other words... ive made a huge mess :'(
(12:35:17 PM) bradass87: im sorry... im just emotionally fractured
(12:39:12 PM) bradass87: im a total mess
(12:41:54 PM) bradass87: i think im in more potential heat than you ever were
(12:41:54 PM) Adrian : I have more messages than resources
allocatable to action them. Please be very patient.
(12:45:59 PM) Adrian: not mandatorily
(12:46:08 PM) Adrian: there are always outs
(12:46:17 PM) Adrian: how long have you helped WIkileaks?
(12:49:09 PM) bradass87: since they released the 9/11 "pager messages"
(12:49:38 PM) bradass87: i immediately recognized that they were from an
NSA database, and i felt comfortable enough to come forward
(12:50:20 PM) bradass87: so... right after thanksgiving timeframe of 2009
(12:52:33 PM) bradass87: Hilary Clinton, and several thousand diplomats
around the world are going to have a heart attack when they wake up one
morning, and finds an entire repository of classified foreign policy is
available, in searchable format to the public... =L
(12:53:41 PM) bradass87: s/Hilary/Hillary
(12:54:47 PM) Adrian: What sort of content?
(12:56:36 PM) Adrian: brb cigarette
(12:56:43 PM) Adrian: keep typing <3
(12:59:41 PM) bradass87: uhm... crazy, almost criminal political
backdealings... the non-PR-versions of world events and crises... uhm...
all kinds of stuff like everything from the buildup to the Iraq War during
Powell, to what the actual content of "aid packages" is: for instance, PR
that the US is sending aid to pakistan includes funding for
water/food/clothing... that much is true, it includes that, but the other
85% of it is for F-16 fighters and munitions to aid in the Afghanistan
effort, so the US can call in Pakistanis to do aerial bombing instead of
americans potentially killing civilians and creating a PR crisis
(1:00:57 PM) bradass87: theres so much... it affects everybody on earth...
everywhere there's a US post... there's a diplomatic scandal that will be
revealed... Iceland, the Vatican, Spain, Brazil, Madascar, if its a
country, and its recognized by the US as a country, its got dirt on it
(1:01:27 PM) bradass87: i need one myself
(1:10:38 PM) bradass87: its open diplomacy... world-wide anarchy in CSV
format... its Climategate with a global scope, and breathtaking depth...
its beautiful, and horrifying...
(1:10:38 PM) Adrian : I have more messages than resources
allocatable to action them. Please be very patient.
(1:11:54 PM) bradass87: and... its important that it gets out... i feel,
for some bizarre reason
(1:12:02 PM) bradass87: it might actually change something
(1:13:10 PM) bradass87: i just... dont wish to be a part of it... at least
not now... im not ready... i wouldn't mind going to prison for the rest of
my life, or being executed so much, if it wasn't for the possibility of
having pictures of me... plastered all over the world press...
(1:14:11 PM) bradass87: i've totally lost my mind... i make no sense...
the CPU is not made for this motherboard...
(1:30:32 PM) bradass87: >sigh<
(1:31:40 PM) bradass87: i just wanted enough time to figure myself out...
to be myself... and be running around all the time, trying to meet someone
else's expectations
(1:32:01 PM) bradass87: *and not be
(1:33:03 PM) bradass87: im just kind of drifting now...
(1:34:11 PM) bradass87: waiting to redeploy to the US, be discharged...
and figure out how on earth im going to transition
(1:34:45 PM) bradass87: all while witnessing the world freak out as its
most intimate secrets are revealed
(1:35:06 PM) bradass87: its such an awkward place to be in, emotionally
and psychologically
(1:35:06 PM) Adrian : I have more messages than resources
allocatable to action them. Please be very patient.
(1:39:03 PM) bradass87: i cant believe what im confessing to you :'(
(1:40:20 PM) bradass87: ive been so isolated so long... i just wanted to
be nice, and live a normal life... but events kept forcing me to figure
out ways to survive... smart enough to know whats going on, but helpless
to do anything... no-one took any notice of me
(1:40:43 PM) bradass87: :'(
(1:43:51 PM) Adrian: back
(1:43:59 PM) bradass87: im self medicating like crazy when im not toiling
in the supply office (my new location, since im being discharged, im not
offically intel anymore)
(1:44:11 PM) bradass87: you missed a lot...
(1:45:00 PM) Adrian: what kind of scandal?
(1:45:16 PM) bradass87: hundreds of them
(1:45:40 PM) Adrian: like what? I'm genuinely curious about details.
(1:46:01 PM) bradass87: i dont know... theres so many... i dont have the
original material anymore
(1:46:18 PM) bradass87: uhmm... the Holy See and its position on the
Vatican sex scandals
(1:46:26 PM) Adrian: play it by ear
(1:46:29 PM) bradass87: the broiling one in Germany
(1:47:36 PM) bradass87: im sorry, there's so many... its impossible for
any one human to read all quarter-million... and not feel overwhelmed...
and possibly desensitized
(1:48:20 PM) bradass87: the scope is so broad... and yet the depth so rich
(1:48:50 PM) Adrian: give me some bona fides ... yanno? any specifics.
(1:49:40 PM) bradass87: this one was a test: Classified cable from US
Embassy Reykjavik on Icesave dated 13 Jan 2010
(1:50:30 PM) bradass87: the result of that one was that the icelandic
ambassador to the US was recalled, and fired
(1:51:02 PM) bradass87: thats just one cable...
(1:51:14 PM) Adrian: Anything unreleased?
(1:51:25 PM) bradass87: i'd have to ask assange
(1:51:53 PM) bradass87: i zerofilled the original
(1:51:54 PM) Adrian: why do you answer to him?
(1:52:29 PM) bradass87: i dont... i just want the material out there... i
dont want to be a part of it
(1:52:54 PM) Adrian: i've been considering helping wikileaks with opsec
(1:53:13 PM) bradass87: they have decent opsec... im obviously violating it
(1:53:34 PM) bradass87: im a wreck
(1:53:47 PM) bradass87: im a total -flicking- wreck right now

 

[Guardian]

Re: Soldier Betrayed by Online Informant with Wikileaks

Julian speaking to EU Parliamentarians tomorrow - live stream available http://www.alde.eu/en/details/?no_cache=1&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=23424&cHash=137ca875fb

HEARING: (SELF) CENSORSHIP NEW CHALLENGES FOR FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION IN EUROPE
21/06/2010
Event date: 21/06/10 14:30 to 18:00 Location: BE BRUSSELS A1G-2


!!! THIS EVENT WILL BE STREAMED LIVE !!!

Journalists, artists and publicists in Europe are increasingly confronted with censorship and self-censorship. Freedom of expression, as well as journalistic freedom is not automatic anymore. While the internet makes borders increasingly irrelevant, freedom of expression, online and offline, become even more relevant. Laws are the safeguards, which are still determined by nation states. The seminar aims to look at freedom of expression from different viewpoints. Swedish artist Lars Vilks, Jyllands-Posten editor Flemming Rose and Dutch author Naema Tahir will share their personal experiences with freedom of expression in Europe, while Professor Alistair Mullis, UK Defamation Law expert, Julian Assange from WikiLeaks and Birgitta Jonsdottir will speak on the legal and political questions surrounding freedom of expression. Defamation law, source protection, safety, libel shopping and the Icelandic Modern Media Initiative will all feature prominently.

This event is the initative of ALDE MEPs Marietje Schaake and Alexander Lambsdorff.

For more information about this event and registration, please contact angela.morgan-ficheroulle(at)europarl.europa.eu

 

[Nawd]

Re: Soldier Betrayed by Online Informant with Wikileaks

Does anyone else get the feeling that something eventually will be leaked concerning BP, but might get discredited because Wikileaks has been attempted to be discredited?

 

[D69]

Re: Soldier Betrayed by Online Informant with Wikileaks

That article is very interesting. True or not , worth reading , there are important questions asked in it.

src:__http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article25767.htm

EDIT:

Here is also one of many quotes from seclist that i read.

Lamo is a sociopathic asshole and a consummate liar. Why anyone would
want to trust anything that comes out of his mouth (and Poulson, too,
for that matter) is beyond me. There's a reason most companies won't
hire convicted felons - most of them are self-absorbed liars who will
do anything for attention (like Lamo).

Making Lamo's conduct even worse is that it appears he reported
Manning for no reason other than a desire for some trivial media
attention. Jacob Appelbaum, a well-known hacker of the Tor Project
who has known Lamo for years, said that Lamo's "only concern" has
always been "getting publicity for Adrian." Indeed, Lamo's modus
operandi as a hacker was primitive hacking aimed at high-profile
companies that he'd then use Poulsen to publicize. As Appelbaum put
it: "if this situation really fell into Adrian's lap, his first and
only thought would have been: how can I turn this to my advantage?
He basically destroyed a 22-year-old's life in order to get his name
mentioned on the Wired.com blog."

What an asshole.

src:__http://seclists.org/fulldisclosure/2010/Jun/466

 

[ocean59]

Re: Soldier Betrayed by Online Informant with Wikileaks

I was able to find a Youtube clip of the live streaming event above. Assange makes the very good point that we all have yet to hear Manning's side of the story. The WL lawyers have been unsuccessful at even contacting Manning's representation, assuming he has any. He then goes on to say that 100% of the information we know is only through an informant and his journalist friend of 10 years, and that we have no idea at all whether that is what has actually happened here (the version of events they give, and the evidence they provided). He does look a bit ragged, understandably.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxnyNgVWYZ0

The Salon article linked to above by both drygol and Heimallr above is really a great read, since the author interviewed both Poulsen and Lamo and asked some hard questions. He also poked some holes in the timelines offered by those two so far.

Earlier today, this 30 minute video/news article was released. It looks like some time was put into it production-wise, plus they interviewed Assange and Lamo (Lamo clip at 22:00) and seemed to cover most of the bases here. It tries to capture the "drama" behind it all, but it's a pretty good watch. At the end he's talking cryptically about information involving massive spying that affects many people and organizations around the world, and hints that WL has all the details behind this that would reveal much to world about interests and motivations. Interesting.

He also said this, which is certainly an honorable goal:

"What we want to create is a system where there is guaranteed free press across the world, the entire world, that every individual in the world has the ability to publish materials that are meaningful. We are kept honest by the fact that we realise primary source material and journalists who base their articles on us, on our materials are also kept honest because readers can check what’s..... what does the primary source say."

Good stuff, and good thread, I've been thinking about it all a little differently after all those interesting angles everyone presented. Haven't had much to add to it til now. :)

 

[Guardian]

Re: Soldier Betrayed by Online Informant with Wikileaks

http://grantlawrence.blogspot.com/2010/06/wikileaks-founder-assange-gives-hint-on.html

June 28, 2010
Wikileaks Founder Assange Gives a Hint on 'Orwellian' Bombshell

Picture of Julian Assange during a talk at 26C3.Image via Wikipedia

By Grant Lawrence

Source: Bodhi Thunder

There has been a lot of speculation regarding what Wikileaks founder Julian Assange is going to release next. The information is said to be so explosive that Assange was hiding out and the Pentagon was looking for him.

Some like the Pentagon Papers' leaker Daniel Ellsberg have issued warnings that Assange's life may be in danger. The Pentagon, it has been reported, was looking to question Assange.

Julian Assange confirms that he does have an Afghan civilian massacre video. But this is not the really big news. Previously, it was thought that the massacre video was the reason that the Pentagon wanted to question Assange.

Assange says "I can give an analogy. If there had been mass spying that had affected many, many people and organizations and the details of that mass spying were released then that is something that would reveal that the interests of many people had been abused." (source: abc.net.au)

According to Assange, the explosive 'Wikileak' would be of the type similar to the Echelon system. For those that aren't aware of that system. It is a secret, or was a secret, program that was engaged in mass spying on the citizens of the US, Australia, New Zealand, Canadia, and Britain. Echelon involved the gathering of mass amounts of electronic information and putting in a database for analysis.

....Intelligence monitoring of people in the area covered by the AUSCANZUKUS security agreement has caused concern. Some critics claim the system is being used not only to search for terrorist plots, drug dealers' plans, and political and diplomatic intelligence but also for large-scale commercial theft, international economic espionage and invasion of privacy. British journalist Duncan Campbell and New Zealand journalist Nicky Hager asserted in the 1990s that the United States was exploiting ECHELON traffic for industrial espionage, rather than military and diplomatic purposes.[10]....(source: wikipedia)

The excuse for the intrusive electronic spying on citizens by the government is that it is needed to keep us free. But it would seem that an intrusive spying system without a warrant or judicial review doesn't contribute to freedom but is merely an expression of fascism.

If Assange has information on the vast monitoring of people all over the world. It wouldn't be surprising. But perhaps just what the military industrial complex is monitoring might be the troubling part.

 

[Guardian]

Re: Soldier Betrayed by Online Informant with Wikileaks

26th Chaos Communication Congress
Here be dragons

WikiLeaks Release 1.0 Part 1 of 7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0i39Vs-h4XM&feature=related

WikiLeaks Release 1.0 Part 2 of 7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANLSKRc8N94&feature=related

WikiLeaks Release 1.0 Part 3 of 7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqwANzZuEP4

WikiLeaks Release 1.0 Part 4 of 7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVHr972-rss

WikiLeaks Release 1.0 Part 5 of 7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyV8tlk_IWo

WikiLeaks Release 1.0 Part 6 of 7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TP2OkP-BlwM

WikiLeaks Release 1.0 Part 7 of 7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEUOfddFO68

 

[ocean59]

Re: Soldier Betrayed by Online Informant with Wikileaks

26th Chaos Communication Congress
Here be dragons

WikiLeaks Release 1.0 Part 1 of 7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0i39Vs-h4XM&feature=related

That's a good talk, watched it awhile back. 480p version available here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zNFe1mQ6Tc