Karmic and Simple Understandings.

[Bernardo GA]

In the factory-style set up of modern schooling that demands conformity, I think it inevitable that this sort of coercion is the favoured method for maintaining control. I don't think that 'learning' (beyond a materialistic, utilitarian sense of the word) is really what schools are for.
I'd be very interested to read an expansion of your thoughts on the idea of external consideration as the basis of true learning

You are making me think a lot Il Matto.
Your question is not simple for me to answer.
What I think is more or less what you commented, which sums it up quite well.
The truth is that I don't know how one could substantially change the curricular educational system, since it is immersed and corresponding to the demands of a mostly materialistic society, where utilitarianism is overvalued to such an extent, that people themselves are considered as something, instead of someone.
The laws of the market color everything, and seem to be the word of God.
It is understandable, because we know that 4D STS is involved and influences the design of programs, and for them physical existence is a kind of god.

It would be fanciful to believe that this can be changed quickly.
In case a substantial change is possible, it would in any case be a process, closely linked and in accordance with the advancement in consciousness of humanity. It would all be part of the same process.

As for what an education where “external consideration” is at its foundation would look like, I think it is something worth thinking about. At least begin to imagine it.
Being creative is central to this and it's not easy. It's not easy because we were subjected to a program aimed at increasing the efficiency of our machine, to the detriment of our higher creative essence. But we are who we are, even if the masters of the sirco don't like it.

And there's no need to think outlandish. Not everything on this planet is junk. We can draw inspiration from good things that already exist. There are things that are constructive, like cooperative work activities for example, where the benefit is for the collective, and the individual benefit comes from being part of the collective, etc.
These kinds of things clearly have an STO principle, which is why they get so many sticks in the wheel.
The fact that corruption usually spoils everything, does not mean that such a system is useless. It is the opposite in fact. The individual path is what makes us most vulnerable and enslaved, and a clear example that “internal consideration” determining most of our actions, is what is most convenient for the predator.

The way everything is structured, it is difficult not to fall into pessimism and at the same time be realistic.
In this current reality, I do not see the possibility of an educational reform that goes to the foundations.

An educational system that respects human nature, that understands, respects and harmoniously accompanies the sacred stage of childhood, that helps a person as an adult not to have problems to understand that “no man is an island”, is a construction in which perhaps we ourselves among others are participating, especially in the foundations.
It will not be a work initiated by official institutions, that is most likely.

As I understand it, the concept of “external consideration” alludes to the benefit and welfare of all parties or the collective, and does not promote individual progress detached from collective progress. In this way the collective also improves in terms of not feeding parasites.
The community would be healthier in many ways.
I don't have studies, nor enough knowledge to elaborate something interesting about it, beyond sharing some thoughts, just as part of a networking dynamic.

But I am sure that here in the forum, there are people very prepared and more than ready to elaborate or design a kind of new educational system.
Using all the baggage of valuable scientific knowledge, especially that which has been silenced and/or systematically combated, that the people of this forum have been able to collect, analyze, order, combine, even channel.
The difference with the previous educational system would be substantial and extraordinary, not only because of greater technical knowledge, but also because of the spiritual interests and considerations of the designers.
The creation of something like that, obviously, would start with some sketches, and then work on them, polishing them, until reaching something really feasible, with practical application possibilities.
Maybe people on the forum already have something going on, I'm just not aware of it. It would be wonderful.

how do you think that relates to simple and karmic understandings?

Now you really complicated it for me.
Actually my comments about the shortcomings in education and so on, were in the context in which I was talking about my difficulties with the term punishment. I didn't have in mind at the time the possible connections between the issue of teaching and the issue of karmic and simple lessons.
And your question is super interesting to me.

I would have to think about it more, but at the moment what comes to my mind is the following:

While we have individual Souls, we are also parts of a greater Soul (a fragmented Soul).
So, it is logical to think that if we cause harm to another individual, at some point we will suffer that harm, being part of the same larger entity.
Karma seems to be a mechanism by which we can come to understand that.

The connection of that to the concept of “External Consideration”, placed at the basis of teaching or other areas of social interaction, can be significant.

A community whose educational system is based on and aimed at the collective welfare, clearly is a community formed by individuals who learn more easily, their condition of “larger entity” (community), and what that implies.
For the individual, the harm to himself when he harms the community will be more evident, and he will act accordingly. The protective attitude may increase, etc.

That's more or less what I can think of at the moment. I hope it makes sense.
Thanks Il Matto for the question.
Best regards to all.

 

[Il Matto]

Thank you for your generous answer to my question Bernado GA (which wasn't intended to add complication!)

While we have individual Souls, we are also parts of a greater Soul (a fragmented Soul).
So, it is logical to think that if we cause harm to another individual, at some point we will suffer that harm, being part of the same larger entity.
Karma seems to be a mechanism by which we can come to understand that.

The connection of that to the concept of “External Consideration”, placed at the basis of teaching or other areas of social interaction, can be significant.

A community whose educational system is based on and aimed at the collective welfare, clearly is a community formed by individuals who learn more easily, their condition of “larger entity” (community), and what that implies.
For the individual, the harm to himself when he harms the community will be more evident, and he will act accordingly. The protective attitude may increase, etc.

Likewise, your answer has prompted me to think about what is needed for anyone to learn about Karmic and Simple Understandings. Certainly, a person must be able to SEE what must be learned, a state which can only be arrived at through long Work of knowledge input and paying attention to reality (probably, at least in part, the reality of our relationships and interactions in the case of Karma). In this sense, any education which hopes to aim at this is most likely an education as part of a network that is working for that purpose.

Being creative is central to this and it's not easy. It's not easy because we were subjected to a program aimed at increasing the efficiency of our machine, to the detriment of our higher creative essence

Absolutely. And so, crucially, 'teachers' will themselves have to be free of this programme otherwise it likely just gets perpetuated, which is why I would agree that,

It will not be a work initiated by official institutions

The first and most important teachers of any child are their parents.
Although I haven't yet been able to read it, I'm aware that 'Logocracy' by Lobaczewski has a chapter which is at least in part about the necessity of removing education from the control of Government / politicians - no doubt this will be full of useful insight regarding education.

It occurs to me, however, that if it is the case that the lessons we must learn this time on the merry-go-round (i.e. Karmic and Simple Understandings) are the result of soul-level decisions made prior to incarnating, then I wonder how best an education might take account of that? (More questions, sorry..)

Thanks again Bernado GA

 

[Bernardo GA]

Likewise, your answer has prompted me to think about what is needed for anyone to learn about Karmic and Simple Understandings. Certainly, a person must be able to SEE what must be learned, a state which can only be arrived at through long Work of knowledge input and paying attention to reality (probably, at least in part, the reality of our relationships and interactions in the case of Karma). In this sense, any education which hopes to aim at this is most likely an education as part of a network that is working for that purpose.

Yes. In fact, FOTCM is the most concrete example to describe “a network that is working for that purpose”. If that's what you mean, we agree.

The first and most important teachers of any child are their parents.
Although I haven't yet been able to read it, I'm aware that 'Logocracy' by Lobaczewski has a chapter which is at least in part about the necessity of removing education from the control of Government / politicians - no doubt this will be full of useful insight regarding education.

Thank you for mentioning it. My wife knows that material and told me it is super interesting.
I have it on my list to read at my earliest convenience

It occurs to me, however, that if it is the case that the lessons we must learn this time on the merry-go-round (i.e. Karmic and Simple Understandings) are the result of soul-level decisions made prior to incarnating, then I wonder how best an education might take account of that? (More questions, sorry..)

If I understood this question correctly, before I say what I think about it I have to make sure that we are talking about the same thing.

In case you mean what would be “the best way an education could take that into account”, to get to a high enough level of knowledge of reality, which includes what we cannot see on our own because of our blind spots, to wake up, to learn all the lessons of the Density we are in, then I would say that the best way is the one given in FOTCM, which includes the Cassiopaea forum of course.
In this case we would be talking about a school for people seriously interested and committed to the interests of the soul, to sum it up somehow.

But if your question refers to schools for the general population, I would say that “the best way an education could take that into account” would be schools whose educational system or teaching program is designed by people of high spiritual knowledge and interests.
And the people at FOTCM are the team of people I would choose for that.
Especially because in the creation of that design would be the presence and supervision of what we call here elderly,but not referring to the number of birthdays. (Laura and her closest team).
That is to say, the work would be done by the most qualified or knowledgeable people in these matters, all of them from FOTCM of course, with the supervision of the elderly.

A population with schools that apply this educational plan would be more fertile in terms of the possibility that more people, upon reaching adulthood, would become interested in a more serious, deeper path of knowledge and spirituality.

Obviously we are not talking about the current situation, but about a better world.
A world where, for example, primary education would be in accordance and/or in collinearity with the successive stages of study and learning, which an individual can face later if he/she wishes.

In short, early education would be part of a larger learning plan.
When I imagine the characteristics of a new and better world, these are the kinds of things that come to mind.

Likewise, and although everything is connected in some way, I think that going deeper into this topic of education would be for other more specific threads. I know that these things are being discussed in other threads that I have not yet been able to read due to lack of time.
At times I feel like I'm missing out on a lot, but then I end up accepting that I can't read as much as I'd like to. That gets me out of the anxious state, which allows me to keep trudging along as best I can with what is at my fingertips.
Thank you Il Matto and everyone.

 

[Il Matto]

In case you mean what would be “the best way an education could take that into account”, to get to a high enough level of knowledge of reality, which includes what we cannot see on our own because of our blind spots, to wake up, to learn all the lessons of the Density we are in, then I would say that the best way is the one given in FOTCM, which includes the Cassiopaea forum of course.

I absolutely agree.
When I wrote, “the best way an education could take that into account”, I was loosely thinking of free will and the need to honour it in the individual who must be free to learn their lessons (or not!) in their own way and at their own pace. Of course, the FOTCM and this forum are ideal in this regard as most folks who find it are searching / seeking and are more likely to be a little further along the path, as it were.

if your question refers to schools for the general population, I would say that “the best way an education could take that into account” would be schools whose educational system or teaching program is designed by people of high spiritual knowledge and interests.
And the people at FOTCM are the team of people I would choose for that.

Absolutely agree with your conclusion here as well.
It seems clear to me, however, that any 'school' as we ordinarily understand them could never meet the standards you have set (by design, I think).
I think it would by necessity have to be a small community set-up with protective measures in place to keep out the likes of psychopaths and other deviants.

I think that going deeper into this topic of education would be for other more specific threads

Yes, again, you're quite right.

these things are being discussed in other threads that I have not yet been able to read due to lack of time.
At times I feel like I'm missing out on a lot, but then I end up accepting that I can't read as much as I'd like to. That gets me out of the anxious state, which allows me to keep trudging along as best I can with what is at my fingertips.

I know this feeling well and have let it get the better of me on a number of occasions; shades of self-importance methinks, which is a part of the simple karmic understandings I'm working on figuring out.
Thank you Bernado GA.

 

[Bernardo GA]

Bernardo GA said:
these things are being discussed in other threads that I have not yet been able to read due to lack of time.
At times I feel like I'm missing out on a lot, but then I end up accepting that I can't read as much as I'd like to. That gets me out of the anxious state, which allows me to keep trudging along as best I can with what is at my fingertips.

I know this feeling well and have let it get the better of me on a number of occasions; shades of self-importance methinks, which is a part of the simple karmic understandings I'm working on figuring out.
Thank you Bernado GA.

It seems to me that you hit the nail exactly on the head!
You have no idea how important that point you made is to me. Thank you for that.
I hadn't made that connection until now.
I'm realizing that when I detect my own “self-importance” in any given situation, I always reason it out or associate it with arrogance, lack of humility, fear of being wrong, and that sort of thing.
But even if my reasonings were in the right direction, I hadn't seen the connection this might have with “karmic and simple lessons”.
And certainly have a lot to do with it.

When I joined the forum for example, I did so full of fears. I didn't want to say things that were wrong, and that would mark my thinking errors for all the world to see.
This is easily visible “self importance”, that it doesn't even take a deep look to be able to see it. But if one digs deeper looking for the underlying reasons, it gets more interesting.

Even if someone could read a ton of available material, and no matter how much they were aware of everything being said in all the forum threads, they still wouldn't be exempt from possible errors in thinking, fallacy in some of their interpretations, their own subjectivity, etc.


Another thing also comes to mind in relation to this. And that is that the mere fact of reading everything that others say, to then collate it and/or combine it with one's own observations, is an important part of the work, but it does not complete the dynamics of networking.
The person has to share in the network. Some reflections, some conclusions he/she has drawn, some opinion he/she has about something, etc. Otherwise, the individual will never find out what he cannot see for himself, because those who can tell him are not aware of what he sees and thinks.

If the individual, despite his fears, decides to share, hallelujah!
The only one who can be hurt by that is the ego. And in that case, the ego getting a good beating on occasion would not be a bad idea.

Anyway, in this I find a possible “simple lesson”. And that would be:

Understand and accept our own limitations, as the human beings that we are.

It's one thing to say it out loud.
It is one thing to believe that we have learned it a long time ago.
It's quite another to have actually learned it.

I hope it makes sense.
Thank you again.

Translated with DeepL.com (free version)

 

[nicklebleu]

Understand and accept our own limitations, as the human beings that we are.

I think there is an addendum to that … I’ll come to that shortly.

All my life I have tried to fulfil what I thought others expected from me.

On one hand you can say “how do you know what others expect from you?” - because very often this is not specifically spelled out from others (maybe apart from parents, teachers, partners etc). We think we know what others expect, but this may be totally wrong.

On the other hand “why should that matter?” - sure some things do matter (as mentioned with parents, teachers and partners etc), but we also need to allow for the fact that their expectation might be wrong/ selfish/ exaggerated etc, so a degree of assessment is required before we should try to fulfil goals others have put up for us. And then these goals should really be our own, because we see the point ot them.

So all my life I have felt deficient, sub-par - trying to ‘better’ myself, to work harder at fulfilling these goals. And of course mainly failing, because it’s an endless quest. And for that I usually blamed and loathed myself.

A little while ago I had sort of an epiphany - I just forgave myself for being myself, warts and all. We all say that we have to learn to love ourselves, unconditionally. How the heck do you do that? I think the first step is to forgive yourself all your mistakes, deficiencies and shortcomings, while at the same time working on overcoming them. But the flavour of ‘overcoming’ is very different under this ‘new’ premise - it looses its urgency and existential pressure, the constant moral self-demeaning and criticising.

I am OK the way I am.

Sure, I have deficiencies and make mistakes, but I can change that. And this may take time. I know now, that I will not achieve to be the ‘good’ person I’d like to be in this lifetime, but I can become a ‘better’ one. Every day. And maybe it will take me several more lifetimes of being a ‘good’ person. But this is also - in a way - the beauty of recurring lifetimes. What you don’t achieve this round, you might achieve the next, or the one after …

And I mean with that not that we can just lie back and let things drift (sure, we can, but then nothing changes, or changes for the worst) - “I have eternity to solve my issues”. Of course we have, but I still would like to progress now as far as I can, but without this endless bashing myself and letting my negative introject running the show.

So … I would rephrase the above in our little list of ‘simple and karmic understandings’:

Understand and accept our own limitations, as the human beings that we are - and love and forgive yourself for that matter.