Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions

[dugdeep]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Perhaps those who are willing to actually do the work of reading about it, and applying it will survive and those who don't won't. It's not rocket science - it comes down to whether a person values knowledge enough to actually work for it or not. In the time you've spent arguing that it should be easier, you could have already made it through quite a bit of the thread.

Ya know, we've been tossing around the idea of a "diet book for dummies" for awhile now. The more I think about it, the worse the idea seems to me.

The bottom line is that darn near NO ONE will change their diet unless they understand why they're doing it. And the only way they can understand why they are doing it is to, um, understand why they are doing it. And that means reading, reading, reading...

I mean, just look at how hard it is to get somebody to understand that fruit is NOT okay because fructose is just as bad as sucrose. "But fruit is different! It's good for you!"

Or look at how hard it is to give up all grains, and gluten, and dairy, and and and...

Many of us have gone through a gradual process: first we stopped gluten, then dairy, then we went paleo, then keto. That is a vast oversimplification of the process, too...

For someone on a crap diet, there is simply no way that I can conceive of where they'll just read a 150 page book and go, "Oh, okay, I'll go keto now." The resistance to giving up even 1 type of food is often enormous. And, if global conditions continue to worsen, everyone is going to want their "comfort foods" even more, which will make the process that much more difficult.

Worse yet, it's pretty clear that the adjustment process must necessarily be gradual for most people, or severe detox/adjustment reactions can occur. Even if a person reads all the relevant threads here on the forum, that doesn't mean they can just start a ketogenic diet the next day.

And then of course there is the fact that no one wants to read anything in the first place, because it isn't in bite-size format. Well, heck, it's like saying, "Can't you make a 15 minute video that will teach me everything I need to know about designing, building, and flying rockets?"

I don't mean to say, "If you've missed the boat, you're screwed!" But we know that food shortages/price spikes are already happening, and that such conditions are generally followed by disease. There is no time to waste, and there is no magic bullet. One really does need to be aware of all the minor details, and there is no shortcut to stuff a large amount of knowledge into one's brain, and then start applying it.

It is necessarily hard work!

Well this has certainly slaughtered some sacred cows for me. I've been quite identified with the idea of writing books and articles to enlighten the masses on the dietary discoveries put forward in the forum here (not that I've actually taken any action on it, mind you). But Mr. Scott and other's posts make it clear that this really isn't the way. And now that it written and in front of me, it's obvious. It is necessary to read the threads here in order to get a solid background on what needs to be done with the diet. A summary in the form of a "how-to" would likely be too brief and probably wouldn't be valued in the same way. It isn't what's needed.

I suppose the good news is that now that I'm not stressing over that fact that I'm not writing a nutritional masterpiece I can hopefully get out of my own way and actually open myself up to what the Universe actually needs of me, rather than trying to impose it.

 

[mcb]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

...Well this has certainly slaughtered some sacred cows for me. I've been quite identified with the idea of writing books and articles to enlighten the masses on the dietary discoveries put forward in the forum here (not that I've actually taken any action on it, mind you). But Mr. Scott and other's posts make it clear that this really isn't the way. And now that it written and in front of me, it's obvious. It is necessary to read the threads here in order to get a solid background on what needs to be done with the diet. A summary in the form of a "how-to" would likely be too brief and probably wouldn't be valued in the same way. It isn't what's needed...

Even my housemate, who is not involved with the forum, has seen how her friends will not change what they eat, no matter how much you tell them and even if it is killing them (and it is killing some of them). So we watch what we eat, answer questions when asked, and try not to stress out over it. What else, really, are you going to do?

If you look at the broader picture, a wealth of information is available now to people that want to improve their health and avoid disease. You don't have to come here just to learn how to do that. Whatever your learning style, you can find something now that will be fairly easy to understand. Most people apparently do not want it.

They want their sugar and they want their wheat and they don't want to learn about how the world is not what it appears. The thing is, it would be pretty difficult to make the switch, health-wise, and not notice that some very odd things are going on here on this planet, contrary to popular belief. So the safe thing, I guess, is to maintain the status quo.

 

[Laura]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

... Most people apparently do not want it.

They want their sugar and they want their wheat and they don't want to learn about how the world is not what it appears. The thing is, it would be pretty difficult to make the switch, health-wise, and not notice that some very odd things are going on here on this planet, contrary to popular belief. So the safe thing, I guess, is to maintain the status quo.

That's kind of the bottom line. What is interesting is that so many "conspiracy theorists" who go a considerable distance on many topics, still believe that the very government that they claim is trying to commit mass murder, plans to eliminate huge segments of the population, or at least enslave them, can't see the forest for the trees: that the most fundamental way to do this is to destroy the health and the ability to think.

You can show them that Pavlov did the research that became foundational to mind control experiments at all scales, and how he showed that even the most robust and resistant temperaments can be broken if their health is broken first, and they still don't get it: that this is being done to them at the most basic level.

Amazingly, they can say all kinds of things about the government being "out to get us" in terms of taking away our freedoms, spraying us with "chemtrails" and whatever, but if you point out that this same government is solidly behind their diet and medical system and anti-smoking campaigns, and they can't go there. They can rail about "big pharma" but don't get it that the "food pyramid" and the advertisments to eat grains and drink milk all come from the same well of corporate control.

The guy who turned me on to Fletcher Prouty's books is a non-smoking vegetarian. With all he CAN see, he can't see himself vis a vis this control system. Everything applies to everyone else, but not to him.

Bizarre.

 

[Carl]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I've always found it strange how you can find a conspiracy theory about almost anything. People accept the existence of murder, genocide, economic terrorism, 'big pharma', media brainwashing, and most other things the psychos get up to, but touch on the diet/smoking conspiracy and that's just way too out there!

I think that the control over diet is the single biggest tool for the owners of humanity. The grain diet is one of the oldest and deepest programs we have. While a small percentage of people may see that the paleo/VLC diet is better for human health, they still don't think about the bigger picture: WHY have we been fed poison for thousands of years? And who by?

If somebody can't take seriously the idea of hyperdimensional controllers, then they're just not ready to see how huge, efficient, organised and evil the 'Big conspiracy' really is. They don't truly value their own health, because they don't realise that they are living in occupied territory, and their health is the most fundamental tool for standing firm against the occupiers and keeping their free will intact.

It's a very depressing state of affairs, but we will all do what we will do. I guess we'll get to test out the true efficacy of this diet+smoking against some comet viruses soon, maybe that will be the final proof.

 

[manitoban]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Amazingly, they can say all kinds of things about the government being "out to get us" in terms of taking away our freedoms, spraying us with "chemtrails" and whatever, but if you point out that this same government is solidly behind their diet and medical system and anti-smoking campaigns, and they can't go there. They can rail about "big pharma" but don't get it that the "food pyramid" and the advertisments to eat grains and drink milk all come from the same well of corporate control.

The guy who turned me on to Fletcher Prouty's books is a non-smoking vegetarian. With all he CAN see, he can't see himself vis a vis this control system. Everything applies to everyone else, but not to him.

Bizarre.

It truly is bizarre! It's like they can grasp only a certain amount of the corporate control and that's as far as they can go. It's completely illogical to think that yes the PTB is indeed out to get us and be aware of just what they are up to in many areas, but at the same time to think that their health/diet/smoking recommendations are just fine and dandy.

For some who do seem able to grasp some of the picture, it's almost like they are unwilling to go any further because they find the truth is unbearable, and requires a huge amount of effort (actually doing the diet!) and they just can't get past that.

 

[supriyanoel]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I had a bout with poor meat that didn't digestmwell last week, and thankfully I am better. The gut is a little sore at times. 'Primal Body Primal Mind' is so readable and informative, btw, that I'm startingto really understand what I need more clearly. I've kept it simple. Waking up to salt water and bone broth is good it seems, followed by a little pate or pork sausage. I find I have to eat about 3 hrs. later and stir-fry some non-cruces for now in coconut oil with some meat or quinoa with meat. I am not eating large portions, so again I'm hungry and am learning what not to mix together. Some berries, almond milk(not much) hemp powder, flaxseeds. I get hungry at about 8, and don't know what I should have at that time yet. I am horrified at what I have put my gut and digestive system through.The government isn't too concerned, not many are that interested. Yet that is. I, lover of all creatures Great and Small, have signed up for an archery class. My biggest challenge will be external consideration. I will meditate beforehand. 21 yrs ago I was made aware of these earth changes. Didn't realize it went by so quick.

 

[supriyanoel]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I didn't realize that just by reading this thread, I'd get what I needed. The only food in my diet are some veggie and some quinoa,some berries,buckwheat coconut oil, lard, ghee. Its mainly bone broth, pork in the form of bacon, liver,chops. Some meat that's organic and fatty and some salmon,wild, also organic. For a change, I need a cookbook, and saw one on a post that seems O.K. I ditched the hemp powder, and haven't had any bananas or dairy. Or gluten or wheat or soy at all, for 6 wks. I'm not going back to any old ways so I'm with it whatever it takes. AND am taking direction! AND, I feel better. IT TAKES what IT TAKES, and its taking, because I feel it. If your hair stopped falling out in clumps, and your skin was shining, and weight dropped 12lbs in a 6 wks, and FINALLY had real bowel movements instead of a few a week , well, you would do anything it takes to take the head out of the ar--, too! If completing this full thread is whats needed then it will be done. And thank you all that responded.

 

[nicklebleu]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

The only food in my diet are some veggie and some quinoa,some berries,buckwheat coconut oil, lard, ghee. Its mainly bone broth, pork in the form of bacon, liver,chops. Some meat that's organic and fatty and some salmon,wild, also organic.

I would skip the quinoa, buckwheat and coconut oil (this one unless you have done an elimination test and found it to be ok). Quinoa and buckwheat are full of lectins and not very good for your health. If you still need carbs at this stage, I would restrict myself to green veggies (cruciferous), lettuce, maybe sweet potatoes in very small quantities.

 

[Laura]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

The only food in my diet are some veggie and some quinoa,some berries,buckwheat coconut oil, lard, ghee. Its mainly bone broth, pork in the form of bacon, liver,chops. Some meat that's organic and fatty and some salmon,wild, also organic.

I would skip the quinoa, buckwheat and coconut oil (this one unless you have done an elimination test and found it to be ok). Quinoa and buckwheat are full of lectins and not very good for your health. If you still need carbs at this stage, I would restrict myself to green veggies (cruciferous), lettuce, maybe sweet potatoes in very small quantities.

Absolutely. What part about fat, meat and a very few veggies (like only 2 or 3: green beans, lettuce and an occasional sweet potato) is so hard to understand?

 

[mcb]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Coconut oil is widely used as a ketone booster and as good source of medium chain triglycerides, and I am not sure why so many here have had trouble with it. I don't have a lot of other good options and I do use coconut oil, though not huge amounts of it.

Quinoa and buckwheat don't have all of the issues that cereal grains do, but they are high in carbohydrates. I haven't encountered anything showing that they have more lectin issues than other plants -- all plant foods have defenses (yes, even the "safe" ones) and about the only way you will know if you personally are well adapted to a given kind is to test it. I still wouldn't recommend quinoa or buckwheat because of the high carbs, but I have eaten small amounts of quinoa when traveling, without any issues.

 

[Ollie]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Coconut oil is widely used as a ketone booster and as good source of medium chain triglycerides, and I am not sure why so many here have had trouble with it. I don't have a lot of other good options and I do use coconut oil, though not huge amounts of it.

Quinoa and buckwheat don't have all of the issues that cereal grains do, but they are high in carbohydrates. I haven't encountered anything showing that they have more lectin issues than other plants -- all plant foods have defenses (yes, even the "safe" ones) and about the only way you will know if you personally are well adapted to a given kind is to test it. I still wouldn't recommend quinoa or buckwheat because of the high carbs, but I have eaten small amounts of quinoa when traveling, without any issues.

The problem with quinoa and buckwheat flour is the possibility (high) of contamination with cereal grains as they are usually ground in the same location and probably with the same mills. Of grains, there is a similar possibility of cross contamination through being stored in the same place. The other problem is, as you point out they are high in carbohydrates - which is other than conducive to a ketosis.

 

[mcb]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

...
The problem with quinoa and buckwheat flour is the possibility (high) of contamination with cereal grains as they are usually ground in the same location and probably with the same mills. Of grains, there is a similar possibility of cross contamination through being stored in the same place. The other problem is, as you point out they are high in carbohydrates - which is other than conducive to a ketosis.

That's true. You would have to be pretty careful where they came from, especially if you have full-blown grain allergies. If it has "branded" packaging then you can check the brand name to see if it is one that now belongs to a food conglomerate. If it does, forget it, even if it says "organic" and especially if it says "natural" (which seems to have become a codeword for "toxic," thanks to lax regulation). Even then you wouldn't be sure. And you could never have much of it without suppressing neoglucogenesis and ketogenesis.

Unless they were just desperate for one of these foods (or addicted to the carbs), I don't know why anyone here would continue to want these foods once they learn about them. If you talk about it with others outside the forum, however, knowing the details can be helpful.

For example, I have a friend with huge health issues, and another with some pretty major ones. I tailor what I say to them according to what they signal to be "in bounds." To do that I have to know what is critical and what is not. The person with the huge issues eats rice and is not open to eliminating it at this time -- it's a cultural issue (we have been eating it for thousands of years, a billion people can't be wrong, etc.). So I pass along what I know about reducing the risk, rather than saying "don't eat rice," but I did plant the idea that someone with such serious health issues might want to consider avoiding it. Questions about quinoa have come up with other friends.

 

[Str!ke]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I understand You to a T and it is important to understand what exactly asking is.

It reminds me of the gal who once asked me to boil down everything I had learned in over 40 years to 25 words or less and after a minute or two I knew the answer: "If you think there is a free lunch in the universe, YOU are lunch."

They all want stuff for free or with little effort like your guy using the paramoralistic "you should be able to explain it "in a nutshell" if you understand it well" nonsense. Life isn't black and white and if complex topics could really be "explained in a nutshell", then everyone would have Ph.D.s for free and they would be worth nothing.

I'd like to ask (if possible, because it's not really on topic, though was mentioned in the page before), regarding 'truly asking' about diet.(I do have read the thread)

Basically, a family member has been asking about Ketogenic Diet and I've shared (articles,books,experiences). She does puts his own efforts like doing the diet, reading, going to conferences, and shares it too.
Also she helps in other aspects i.e. researching organic meat providers for both.
This interaction has been like this for a year.
The thing is, she is average in english, so I try to help in explaining/traducing some terms.

Question is:
Is this interaction truly asking or am I wishfully thinking that I'm helping ?(an STS interaction of someone being prey and other predator?) Is it more of an STO interaction (of helping each other, both giving equal input)?

 

[monotonic]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Megan, I like your idea about the video with the rocket. After this discussion I think that would be a good idea. I think an honest representation of what it takes, and what happens if you try to get free lunch, is the right way to address this issue. What has just been said, to me, is the first time the issue has made sense to me. This seems to be something many still don't understand. It could discourage many people from the outset, but at the same time I think the honest truth will be encouraging for the kind of people who are ready for what is happening here. With some more sacred cows put out to pasture, maybe there will be less interruptions and diversions and more progress.

 

[monotonic]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I want to say some things about my own experiments. I have started turning the cold water on full blast after each shower. The first time I did It was mostly like I thought, until I turned the water off. It is liberating to feel warm when stepping out of the shower rather than feeling cold. A cold tile floor or a burst of winter air is less of a panic attack and more of a fresh breeze. I realize now that cold to me is like a shock, not just a feeling. I don't think this is normal, though it could be for anyone living near the equator like me. After this experience I see see myself pulling open my door and the wind is not a freezing gale but a fresh breeze. I do not take showers often, as I find eating good food keeps me fresh for longer, but every time I do there is an improvement. At first I realized there was no point in anticipating the experience because it blows your mind, every time. I found if I anticipated it, I would feel cold as though it were happening. But if I simply thought about it I would feel warmth like the feeling right after. It is a great demonstration of anticipation and many of the things we have talked about here. I know many people like the thrill of a horror movie but how many would appreciate the thrill of a steady spray of icy water? I think the latter takes more guts. I found it easier to make it through if I focused on breathing properly and kept my mind on the idea of what I was trying to do. I found after a few times there was a period when I would be in utter shock but then the overwhelming feeling would calm down and I could breathe calmly again, and this was also a liberating feeling, knowing that the shock is only momentary. This last time the water was the coldest. Yet, the shock passed faster. The water was searing cold. I think the water was cold enough this time to have more side-effects. I felt different mentally, in a way I attribute to shocks I find nearly unbearable. For instance, the pain of pulling a large wart out of my thumb with locking tweezers, or the time I scratched the whole area of both my shins to a bloody mess from scabies - I nearly blacked out (although this did not get nearly that far). The burning sensation lingers just very slightly, and I know moving water/snow is much more dangerous WRT frostbite than still water/bath, so I will review the information I can find to make sure I don't give myself problems.

A while back I suspected I needed iodine and we were conveniently in a position to get some in the form of Kelp capsules. The effect was subtle so I wasn't sure at first but the stuff helps with my mental state and generally feeling well. The most significant difference however is that now I can get to sleep whenever I need to, and maybe even have dreams. Never before for many years have I been able to go to sleep this easily. I tried melatonin tablets, but I found they only worked within a narrow timeframe and actually seemed to keep me up in some cases. I think the iodine supplement is closer to the source of the problem. When the Kelp ran out we found a dropper bottle of potassium iodide, but this does not seem to work as well. Perhaps because it is weaker; it suggests to take 3 drops a day, whereas it takes 8 drops to provide the same amount of iodide in the Kelp capsules. The Kelp supplement also contained iron.