Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions

[Hesper]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I understand You to a T and it is important to understand what exactly asking is.

It reminds me of the gal who once asked me to boil down everything I had learned in over 40 years to 25 words or less and after a minute or two I knew the answer: "If you think there is a free lunch in the universe, YOU are lunch."

They all want stuff for free or with little effort like your guy using the paramoralistic "you should be able to explain it "in a nutshell" if you understand it well" nonsense. Life isn't black and white and if complex topics could really be "explained in a nutshell", then everyone would have Ph.D.s for free and they would be worth nothing.

I'd like to ask (if possible, because it's not really on topic, though was mentioned in the page before), regarding 'truly asking' about diet.(I do have read the thread)

Basically, a family member has been asking about Ketogenic Diet and I've shared (articles,books,experiences). She does puts his own efforts like doing the diet, reading, going to conferences, and shares it too.
Also she helps in other aspects i.e. researching organic meat providers for both.
This interaction has been like this for a year.
The thing is, she is average in english, so I try to help in explaining/traducing some terms.

Question is:
Is this interaction truly asking or am I wishfully thinking that I'm helping ?(an STS interaction of someone being prey and other predator?) Is it more of an STO interaction (of helping each other, both giving equal input)?

Asking is done through actions and not just through words. So the fact that she's doing the diet, reading the books, and even attending conferences is quite a lot of evidence that she is sincerely asking (I think). The problem is in balance. If the situation is not balanced, then you are doing all the work to "teach" her, and, as in the past examples, he or she is not really learning but simply feeding off of your efforts and attention. In this case your family member is balancing the equation by actually doing something with what you're offering.

Here's the Cassiopedia entry on "Giving All to Those Who Ask"

 

[Gawan]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

The dizziness feeling is kind of persistent in the morning. So I did order the homeopathic cortisone supplement and tried beforehand to find out what else is in the tablets. Well, it contained wheat and milk, so it was of no use. Next step is asking my doctor if he likes to subscribe hydrocortisol for me

I think is worth asking. The doses are so ridiculously low that he or she has no good reason to make a fuss about it. You can print out the reference book about it:

[...]

I have been at the doctor, but he didn't like to prescribe cortisone. Cause of the following reason, that my insulin need may increase 4-fold (which could be about 60i.e. instead of 15i.e. for a day, beside inflammation could occur). And that could be truth since after doing resistance exercise (which releases also cortisone) I need to balance the BG with extra insulin. Actually I don't have the time to do another experiment or it would be too risky for the time being, cause I need my body at the moment and would risk to bring the really stable blood sugar out of balance. And even slightly increased BG measurements are bothering. So I have to live with it at the moment and eventually do some adjustments when I have more time again. Also when at times this feeling is bothering in the morning, it is also just for about 1hr.

 

[Eva]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

This thread is a treasure of information.
I have only read the first couple of pages now and started on a paper but it suddenly dawned on me, what about supplements ? I did a search and all the supplement-related threads date 2010 or earlier but I suppose there must be differences in the supplement plan along with the (newer) ketogenic diet.
I am giving in to impatience now, but while I go through this thread and learn about KD, is there another thread I'm missing that deals with that question ?

 

[Beau]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

This thread is a treasure of information.
I have only read the first couple of pages now and started on a paper but it suddenly dawned on me, what about supplements ? I did a search and all the supplement-related threads date 2010 or earlier but I suppose there must be differences in the supplement plan along with the (newer) ketogenic diet.
I am giving in to impatience now, but while I go through this thread and learn about KD, is there another thread I'm missing that deals with that question ?

Once you go ketogenic the need for supplements is greatly lessened, especially if you have little to no pre-existing health conditions. If that's the case, you'll just need vitamin C, magnesium, potassium, and digestive enzymes. And it's never a bad idea to have some NAC around just in case. Otherwise, the KD provides everything else that we've been starved of on the SAD (how fitting is THAT acronym!).

 

[mcb]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

This thread is a treasure of information.
I have only read the first couple of pages now and started on a paper but it suddenly dawned on me, what about supplements ? I did a search and all the supplement-related threads date 2010 or earlier but I suppose there must be differences in the supplement plan along with the (newer) ketogenic diet.
I am giving in to impatience now, but while I go through this thread and learn about KD, is there another thread I'm missing that deals with that question ?

It is important to read the recommended books as well, and there is a pretty good guide to supplements in Primal Body, Primal Mind. Certain supplements are useful during keto-adaptation and for some time afterward, and as required to repair existing damage. It is better, however, to obtain needed nutrients from food where possible, and to supplement only when necessary.

 

[Eva]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Once you go ketogenic the need for supplements is greatly lessened, especially if you have little to no pre-existing health conditions. If that's the case, you'll just need vitamin C, magnesium, potassium, and digestive enzymes. And it's never a bad idea to have some NAC around just in case. Otherwise, the KD provides everything else that we've been starved of on the SAD (how fitting is THAT acronym!).

Thanks for the information. Sounds much nicer than the handfulls of supplements I'm using now - a plan based on Hyman's Ultramind Solution and the research that was done here back then.

It is important to read the recommended books as well, and there is a pretty good guide to supplements in Primal Body, Primal Mind. Certain supplements are useful during keto-adaptation and for some time afterward, and as required to repair existing damage. It is better, however, to obtain needed nutrients from food where possible, and to supplement only when necessary.

I just got an order of 6 other books and I'll be almost finished with the long yet wonderful list of recommended books. Reading PBPM is now in my to-do list though and I'll squeeze it in as soon as possible. Thank you for the pointer :)

 

[mada85]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I haven't posted for what seems a short time, but I realise is quite a few months! How time flies! At least it has for many people I meet on a daily basis.

Anyway, here's an update on my diet progress. Until about 7-10 days ago I continued to eat a small amount of carbs every day, no more than 20-25g. The paleo diet worked wonders for me after being so ill a year ago, so I thought that if it ain't broke, I won't try to fix anything. But . . . I was not experiencing the wonderful energy levels that Gedgaudas says are achievable.

I did my first IF about 7-10 days ago. I reduced the size of breakfast and had one egg and three or four slices of bacon with plenty of butter. Then nothing else for that day. The following morning, I had a small breakfast with lots of butter, and very soon after that I had marked acetone breath. I had so much energy! Following the IF I could no longer carbs. My body simply refused them. Now I have no desire for them.

Since then I've continued to eat reduced protein and had much more energy available steadily through the day. My leg cramps are greatly reduced. I get so much done at work! I feel like I'm riding a whirlwind of energy.

I have a question about pressure cookers. I've been looking around for a stainless steel pressure cooker. I'm leaning towards buying a 10 litre model, but I have no experience with them at all. What size pressure cooker would people here recommend for cooking bone broth for one person?

 

[beetlemaniac]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I have a question about pressure cookers. I've been looking around for a stainless steel pressure cooker. I'm leaning towards buying a 10 litre model, but I have no experience with them at all. What size pressure cooker would people here recommend for cooking bone broth for one person?

Hi Endymion,

For my bone broth I use a 3 liter pressure cooker. I usually just dump in pork cuts like trotters (my favorite), marrow bones, neck bones and anything with a bone in it and let it cook away and everything is usually done within an hour, super convenient. But I find myself wanting a larger cooker to cook bigger batches, even tho I am cooking for one person. Its a little cumbersome to do it during the work week. So I think a 10 liter one would be pretty good especially if you've got a good way to store your broth (or you could just put the cooker with broth straight in the fridge).

 

[Medulin]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I can't go on 100% keto. I'm on cyclic(al) keto diet. Every 10th day I eat carbs to replenish muscles with glycogen. :)

 

[anart]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I can't go on 100% keto. I'm on cyclic(al) keto diet. Every 10th day I eat carbs to replenish muscles with glycogen. :)

Hi Medulin, have you read this whole thread and the linked studies? There is zero need to "replenish carbs". In fact, you might be hurting yourself by yo-yoing back and forth. Muscle growth is sustained and usually increases on a ketogenic diet.

 

[mcb]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I have been meaning to post an update on my experiments with cleaning up uncooperative gut bacteria. It seems to be going well, although not quite in the direction I originally expected. My original plan was to eliminate plant foods and wait, in an attempt to starve out the undesirable bacteria. I did stay with that plan long enough to clear out the tract, and reach stability.

In the mean time, however, I had been reading about the colon and the function of bacterial fermentation in it (I posted about this earlier), and I decided to try something different. As I mentioned, I bought some organic sauerkraut and started eating two helpings a day (at different times), on the theory that it would act as a cheap probiotic, solving the problem of the expense of the high potency probiotic capsules that I had been using previously.

The sauerkraut did two things: it supplied lots of the right kind of bacteria, and it supplied limited amounts of food for them in the form of the remaining unfermented saccharides. It did one other thing too -- a few days later I felt a large boost in energy! Something worked, finally. In fact I am still feeling better after two weeks of this.

After a few days I added organic chard and mushrooms to the mix, including them with breakfast. And a few days after that I added a small amount of organic white onion. All of these foods except chard -- cabbage, mushrooms, and onion -- are FODMAP foods and can potentially feed pathogenic bacteria. But those are also so-called "prebiotics" that feed beneficial bacteria. Which way they work -- to make you feel better or worse -- depends on what is going on in your gut (and perhaps how much of them you consume).

My idea was to starve out what I could of the troublesome bacteria, and then introduce large volumes of beneficial ones along with limited amounts of prebiotics in an attempt to give the beneficial bacteria the advantage while also restoring healthy fermentation in my colon. It was just a hunch, but I was hoping that the good bacteria and their fermentation products along with my gut immune system would together somehow deal with the troublemakers. I have no way of knowing exactly what did happen, but I do feel better.

I have been taking care to eat only small amounts of the prebiotic/FODMAP foods. Their net carbs range between 0 and a few grams per meal, and I suspect (per Jaminet) that the energy cost of digestion for them exceeds the net carbs, so that they are essentially zero carb foods anyway. I have been checking my blood ketones occasionally, and the peak is still 2.4 mmol (which is good, by the way, in terms of delivering ketones to the brain). It would appear that these small amounts of carbs have not affected ketone levels one way or the other. My blood glucose levels have not changed either.

As I mentioned earlier, the beneficial bacteria use prebiotic nutrients to produce short-chain fatty acids including butyrates. There may be much more going on as well that nobody even knows about. My hunch was that if I could get this process going on even a limited basis, it would help to create a healthier gut environment. I don't pretend to know what all of that stuff does in there, but the system evolved over a vast span of time and it probably does something very useful to justify its volume, weight, upkeep and energy use, and when I starve it for an extended period of weeks it starts to hurt a lot. So I switched to this approach instead.

I plan to reduce and then eliminate the sauerkraut at some point. I doubt that fermented vegetables would be important if normal gut fermentation were working well. I would hazard a guess that traditional foods include fermented foods because it helped compensate for the poor-quality traditional agriculture-based diet.

I think that one of the mistakes I made early on with the paleo/keto diet was depending too much on avocado as a source of fat. I can't eat it now without having problems that last for weeks, and I suspect that the pathogenic bacteria love the stuff. The problem is that foods like avocado are a source of both fat and carbs. This seemed to be fine on a 50 g/d KD -- the carbs helped a lot with the total. But unbeknownst to me, I think it was making my gut bacteria balance situation worse and worse, though I don't exactly know why.

So now I am including veggies in my diet, but only in limited amounts and only kinds that contain few or no grams of available (net) carbohydrate. That keeps the carb intake near zero (I have started calling it "single digit carbs") but promotes fermentation on a moderate scale. The fiber volume is fairly low too -- well below the RDA -- and the fiber is of a type that seems to avoid GI tract damage. The fiber, of course, is where the non-digestible carbs reside that fuel fermentation so you may indeed want some fiber in your diet, but for fuel rather than for bulk. There are other potential sources of fuel for gut bacteria, but that is something I have not explored.

I don't know if there would be a benefit to promoting even more fermentation. It would appear that the small amount of veggies I am eating now produce plenty of it, resulting in good stool softness (indicating that it contains lots of bacteria), reasonable volume, and no significant constipation issues. Those small amounts may be all that is actually needed.

 

[Niall]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I have a question about pressure cookers. I've been looking around for a stainless steel pressure cooker. I'm leaning towards buying a 10 litre model, but I have no experience with them at all. What size pressure cooker would people here recommend for cooking bone broth for one person?

Maybe something like this would suit you fine?

http://www.amazon.com/Presto-01362-6-Quart-Stainless-Pressure/dp/B00006ISG6/ref=sr_1_2?s=kitchen&ie=UTF8&qid=1358073378&sr=1-2

If you're only cooking for one, then you can easily make do with preparing bone broth in a regular saucepan. The kind of pressure cooker that is essential is one you can do canning with:

http://www.amazon.com/All-American-921-2-Quart-Pressure/dp/B00004S88Z/ref=sr_1_5?s=kitchen&ie=UTF8&qid=1358073378&sr=1-5

 

[herondancer]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

If you can spring for it, do go with the All American. Having the option to actually can meat is really good. The only drawback to the AA is that it's made from aluminum. This doesn't matter when you are canning as the food will be in jars, but it does matter if you are actually cooking in it. I got around this by finding a steel soup pot that would fit inside the canner. Just add the water around the interior pot and leave the lid off the inside pot when you cook to get the pressure effect. If you get the larger canner (21 qt) you can make a whole bunch of broth and then can it for food supply. Nothing like knowing you are 50 jars ahead of the game. :)

 

[mada85]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Thanks so much for the replies about the pressure cooker. Canning is definitely something to consider while I'm looking at pressure cookers. I'll have to think about whether to buy something that does everything, or one for each function. Thanks again!

 

[Z...]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Here is an idea for a good fat vehicle, that goes well with pate or any meat.
I made delicious mayonnaise using 1/2 kg goose fat and 1/2 L olive oil, 4 egg yolks, some Dijon mustard and some lemon juice.

When making mayonnaise you can add as much fat as you want as long as you trickle it very slowly into the mix.
If it breaks and goes flat, do not throw it - just start emulsifying in separate dish with new egg yolk and pour into it very slowly the broken mix.