Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions

[Beau]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I've been making some experiments and observations about the KD vis a vis nutrient content. I notice that I HAVE to take magnesium supplements or things don't "move". So I started wondering about this. See the post in the Magnesium thread here:

http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,2354.msg402007.html#msg402007

That's very interesting and I have wondered about how our ancestors obtained those needed nutrients, since I also have noticed a need to supplement magnesium and potassium at night or else I get leg cramps. Take the pills, and no leg cramps. Upping salt intake is also something I could experiment with too. But yeah, I have to take magnesium now even with being on the KD or no "movement" and leg cramps.

 

[Nancy2feathers]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I want to thank you Laura and team for all the research you have done on the KD. I just want to say how this way of life works for me!

Shane and I loaded all his household items and furniture from his storage unit this weekend into a U-Haul truck. We brought it home and then unloaded it. Before the KD I would have been popping the advil and laid up in bed for a while after moving and lifting like that. I feel no aches or pain, no inflammation! Halleluiah! :D

 

[Nienna]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

That's very interesting and I have wondered about how our ancestors obtained those needed nutrients, since I also have noticed a need to supplement magnesium and potassium at night or else I get leg cramps. Take the pills, and no leg cramps. Upping salt intake is also something I could experiment with too. But yeah, I have to take magnesium now even with being on the KD or no "movement" and leg cramps.

Back when I was living with a roommate, we found that on the KD we needed a lot more salt. If one of us started having leg cramps, or any type of cramp, we'd take some salt in water and the cramps would go away quickly. It was stated that on a KD diet you need more salt. This really is important.

Although, I have found that I also need magnesium. If I don't have enough magnesium, I get restless leg syndrome. I pop a couple more magnesium pills and it goes away.

 

[Laura]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I want to thank you Laura and team for all the research you have done on the KD. I just want to say how this way of life works for me!

Shane and I loaded all his household items and furniture from his storage unit this weekend into a U-Haul truck. We brought it home and then unloaded it. Before the KD I would have been popping the advil and laid up in bed for a while after moving and lifting like that. I feel no aches or pain, no inflammation! Halleluiah! :D

I'm right there with you, Nancy2F!!!

 

[Gaby]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Question is how to restore healthy gut microflora while I had no significant results with probiotic supplementation so far. I guess that means back to square one.

Don't despair! I'm sort of on the same boat. The article quoted draw my attention in that autonomic imbalances are a key feature in histamine intolerance. They can also produce some squirrely feelings such as anxiety, depression, etc.

For me it hit the nail in the head because I have done some research on mixed race cultures, not average mixes, but rather when two extreme races come together (about 2-3% of the population). As it happens I am one of these products. It seems that mixed race peeps have more suicidal tendencies, depression, anxieties, "sensitivities" and anti-social behavior even when co-founding factors such as trauma are factored in. It is hypothesized that an autonomic imbalance is at the root because two alleles come together with somewhat incompatible genetic info. Either that happens or the opposite: health vigor where mixed race people are at an over advantage health-wise. Well, the research is not too well founded, but that mixed race people have more incidence of allergies (histamine intolerance) got my attention.

I can track back how a certain food I was addicted contributed to foggy thinking. I was always allergic to citrus fruits and always had very bad allergies every single hour of the day up until I removed gluten from my diet. I spent half of my life on anti-histaminics. So I'm going to experiment with a low histamine diet/ketogenic diet and I think it is very doable.

Can you get a source of fresh bacon? That is, pork belly which is not supposed to be cured. That can substitute your bacon. Caffeine, adios. Including cocoa and/or dark chocolate, teas, coffee, etc. At least until your gut heals. We can try with vitamin C as the only drink. Vitamin C is a powerful anti-histaminic!

As for broths, I would try doing the meat source version, not the bone source version. Read this article for more information:

Stock vs Broth - Are You Confused?
http://www.sott.net/article/257416-Stock-vs-Broth-Are-You-Confused

If you have a gut imbalance, broth might not be such a good idea because it increases excitatory glutamate in your brain. So stock is the way to go and ideally it has to be as fresh as possible and not long simmered. So making one batch at a time, or very small batches seems the way to go. There are some recipes in the article, just ignore the veggies and whatever you are sensitive to in terms of spices.

For fish, it is not that is verboten. Rather, it has to be freshly cooked when you eat it. That is, no canned stuff.

I tolerated extremely bad the sauerkraut. I'm still recovering! So I won't eat it anymore gladly. No more nuts either.

So it could be something like this,

Breakfast: pork belly and eggs, butter and/or breakfast sausage.
Lunch: pork chop, butter and stock.
Dinner: Stock with butter and if hungry left over pork chop or pork belly.

No vinegars, nor cured meats. However, if you fancy ham, then you will probably be happy with fresh pork belly. Just remember to cook it ;)

In my experience, magnesium is also a must have. Magnesium reduces the release of histamine and inflammatory molecules among other things.

I think it is very doable and not very different. I would report back down a few weeks. :) I'm actually excited about it. I mean, duh!, I've always known I've been histamine intolerant.

 

[shijing]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

For me it hit the nail in the head because I have done some research on mixed race cultures, not average mixes, but rather when two extreme races come together (about 2-3% of the population). As it happens I am one of these products. It seems that mixed race peeps have more suicidal tendencies, depression, anxieties, "sensitivities" and anti-social behavior even when co-founding factors such as trauma are factored in. It is hypothesized that an autonomic imbalance is at the root because two alleles come together with somewhat incompatible genetic info. Either that happens or the opposite: health vigor where mixed race people are at an over advantage health-wise. Well, the research is not too well founded, but that mixed race people have more incidence of allergies (histamine intolerance) got my attention.

Thanks for mentioning this, Psyche, since I've never looked into it before. I know you say that the research isn't too well-founded, but are there any particular references that you consider better than most?

 

[mcb]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

That's very interesting and I have wondered about how our ancestors obtained those needed nutrients, since I also have noticed a need to supplement magnesium and potassium at night or else I get leg cramps. Take the pills, and no leg cramps. Upping salt intake is also something I could experiment with too. But yeah, I have to take magnesium now even with being on the KD or no "movement" and leg cramps.

I suspect that one of the key differences between now and then is that the paleolithic diets that favored meat (it's not certain that all did) consisted predominantly of organ meats, while we eat primarily muscle meats, which are an inferior nutrient source. Hopefully everyone is able to include at the very least some grass-fed/finished liver in their diet, and not too well cooked.

I will make any other comments over in the MM topic.

 

[Gaby]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Thanks for mentioning this, Psyche, since I've never looked into it before. I know you say that the research isn't too well-founded, but are there any particular references that you consider better than most?

It is hard to tell. I have dozens of dozens of references, but some groups are clearly racist even when they have very good points. I just glimpsed everything I collected and got an idea that it can cause extremes, with some interesting patterns of "hypersensitivity" that could either be explained by "identity" crises (i.e. trauma, bullying, etc.) or not. Some studies point that even when people said they had a great upbringing with no social problems, they still reported more suicidal tendencies than the average population. But I don't know how reliable their testimony of a great upbringing really is.

Most of these studies are American as well, as more mixed folks are showing up and needing help for problems that are more specific and probably stemming from their bi-racial mix, genetic or not. I sure know it can create an identity crises, although my upbringing was in a tightly anti-racist culture where neither of my ethnicities considered me as theirs and I was bullied on a constant basis up until the age of 12. But my feeling is that there might be something into the mixing of incompatible genes. Just to give an example, a Caucasian person, as mixed as he or she might be, might have a 90% chance of finding a compatible bone marrow donor from the transplantation bank. I would find a 0 chance, or practically zero.

There are also studies of mothers who were totally accepting and loving towards their mixed race children, yet unconscious patterns will reveal that they had "racist" tendencies in regards to them, sort of in the line explained in the book Blink. Overall, my impression is that Americans are somewhat better of, especially now that so many ethnicities and research about it had converged there. Actually, being mixed race is even considered cool. Here are a couple of studies:

Biracial Asian Americans and mental health
_http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2008-08/uoc--baa081108.php

"34 percent of biracial individuals in a national survey had been diagnosed with a psychological disorder, such as anxiety, depression or substance abuse, versus 17 percent of monoracial individuals. The higher rate held up even after the researchers controlled for differences between the groups in age, gender and life stress, among other factors."

Health and Behavior Risks of Adolescents with Mixed-Race Identity
_http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1448064/

Adolescents who self-identify as more than 1 race are at higher health and behavior risks. The findings are compatible with interpreting the elevated risk of mixed race as associated with stress.

I'm planning to review the info I gathered within the next couple of weeks or so and will pass you anything relevant I may find. But what I wrote above is pretty much the gist of it.

 

[Eva]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Psyche your research in methylgyoxal is mind-blowing!

Also, this:

Here is an article that might shed some light for some with itchiness and histamine problems at the beginning of ketoadaptation:

_http://primaldocs.com/opinion/histamine-intolerance-gaps-and-low-carb/

Histamine Intolerance, GAPS and Low Carb

Ultimately, it seems more a matter of leaky gut and/or gut dysbiosis, so the more the gut heals, the more you tolerate histamine rich foods. That seems to be the general experience.

This article lists some additional common symptoms, most of which I've been experiencing. I didn't even list them all in my previous post because I thought they were due to stressful situations - that have been arising at work, following other stressful situations that I recently resolved.

autonomic dysregulation: tachycardia, palpitations, light headedness,
low blood pressure and fainting
constipation and bloating
muscle pain, cramps
joint pain, athritis
hearing problems, tinnitus
attention and memory problems
depression, mind racing
insomnia, fatigue
unexplained bruising and bleeding
restless leg syndrome
flushing and rosacea

Insomnia plagued me for the past 3 weeks to the point that I just wasn't sleeping at all for 1-2 days and then the best I could do was sleep for 1 hour and wake up. I was amazed at how I could keep going like that, even 1mg melatonin didn't help - which is the dose I took whenever I used melatonin at all. It's better now though, after a couple of nights taking 3mg I finally slept for a full 7 hours. I was ecstatic.

And depression was inconceivable, for a week I was in pieces - it was useful nonetheless. It's better now but still when I go out my eye catches every little detail of conversations, gestures and looks between people in the subway that are telling of the STS configuration of human interaction. It's always been there and I always noticed, but now it's just too glaring.

I still cannot be sure that those symptoms are due to histamine considering said stressful situations, but I suppose it might be a factor.
It's lucky that I decided to go with the Sott article's suggestion and start with stock! Plus, I tried hard to find decent bacon from grass fed animals and I gave up. I've ordered pork bellies instead and thought it might be the same thing.
Thanks for indirectly confirming that thought for me Psyche!

I also got the blood ketone meter and the ketostix and I'll follow-up with numbers in a couple of days.
I had ordered Lyposomal VitC - along with magnesium and potassium - a few weeks ago so it should be here soon, then I'll have a comparison measurement to post.

 

[shijing]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I'm planning to review the info I gathered within the next couple of weeks or so and will pass you anything relevant I may find. But what I wrote above is pretty much the gist of it.

OK, thanks for the links above Psyche, and I'll be interested in anything else you decide to post.

 

[mcb]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

...I also got the blood ketone meter and the ketostix and I'll follow-up with numbers in a couple of days.
...

I expect that the ketone meter will provide the more useful results. Keep in mind that ketone levels vary over the course of a day, and may tend to be higher later in the day. There is no standard "ketogenic range" that I know of for the plasma BOHB readings that the meter provides, but a typical range that I have encountered in my reading is 0.5 to 5.0 mmol/L. Any lower and you aren't going to see much benefit. Much higher and you may have problems with it, although that may depend on the individual.

I seem to have an upper limit of about 2.4, which may be related to my fasting glucose that doesn't drop below about 90 mg/dL. Everybody is different. When I am finished losing weight I will look into bringing the glucose down further. It has taken a year and a half so far to lose 40 pounds, and it looks like I have some months to go still. Rapid weight loss this is not! But I do not go hungry. It is interesting, because even when I fast (intermittent fast) for 16 or 20 hours, I don't usually become hungry until I am ready to eat again.

 

[Aliana]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Here is an article that might shed some light for some with itchiness and histamine problems at the beginning of ketoadaptation:

_http://primaldocs.com/opinion/histamine-intolerance-gaps-and-low-carb/

Histamine Intolerance, GAPS and Low Carb

Ultimately, it seems more a matter of leaky gut and/or gut dysbiosis, so the more the gut heals, the more you tolerate histamine rich foods. That seems to be the general experience.

This article lists some additional common symptoms, most of which I've been experiencing. I didn't even list them all in my previous post because I thought they were due to stressful situations - that have been arising at work, following other stressful situations that I recently resolved.

autonomic dysregulation: tachycardia, palpitations, light headedness,
low blood pressure and fainting
constipation and bloating
muscle pain, cramps
joint pain, athritis
hearing problems, tinnitus
attention and memory problems
depression, mind racing
insomnia, fatigue
unexplained bruising and bleeding
restless leg syndrome
flushing and rosacea

Insomnia plagued me for the past 3 weeks to the point that I just wasn't sleeping at all for 1-2 days and then the best I could do was sleep for 1 hour and wake up. I was amazed at how I could keep going like that, even 1mg melatonin didn't help - which is the dose I took whenever I used melatonin at all. It's better now though, after a couple of nights taking 3mg I finally slept for a full 7 hours. I was ecstatic.

And depression was inconceivable, for a week I was in pieces - it was useful nonetheless. [..]

All I can say is me too!!! Thank you so much for posting this - you may have helped me solve some issues that have been plaguing me for months! I have had a persistent rash all over my stomach and back for many months and nothing has been working. I have tried eliminating all the obvious things, but it never occurred to me that bacon and bone broth could be part of the problem!! Not to mention avocados and chocolate and black tea (all favorites of mine) I have also tried using the french green clay - drinkable as well as using it on my body, taking supplements to help my liver, liposomal C and glutathione as well as using the FIR blanket. I have been growing frustrated b/c nothing was working!

So - while I am not looking forward to getting rid of many more of my favorite foods, it will be well worth it if this finally works! ;)

In addition, that may help explain the intermittent insomnia, tinnitis, mood swings, heart palpitations...etc etc. All things that I could not explain. Yeah - back to square one!

 

[Gertrudes]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

That's very interesting and I have wondered about how our ancestors obtained those needed nutrients, since I also have noticed a need to supplement magnesium and potassium at night or else I get leg cramps. Take the pills, and no leg cramps. Upping salt intake is also something I could experiment with too. But yeah, I have to take magnesium now even with being on the KD or no "movement" and leg cramps.

I suspect that one of the key differences between now and then is that the paleolithic diets that favored meat (it's not certain that all did) consisted predominantly of organ meats, while we eat primarily muscle meats, which are an inferior nutrient source. Hopefully everyone is able to include at the very least some grass-fed/finished liver in their diet, and not too well cooked.

I will make any other comments over in the MM topic.

I think so to. I was constantly constipated during the first months of having become keto adapted, and had to constantly rely on vitamin C and magnesium. I was also barely having any organ meat.

Right now I have organ meat nearly every day, and besides being the food source that I notice keeps hunger at bay for longer than any other (very useful for me due to my working schedule), I am no longer constipated. I still take vitamin C every day, although less then before, but only take magnesium once or twice a week, rather then daily as I used to. I might try a week without each just to check for any bowel changes.

 

[Oxajil]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Regarding magnesium, I think what Dr. Carolyn Dean said may be another reason why we're not getting enough magnesium which wasn't a problem for our early ancestors who lived near the sea: "our body holds onto calcium much more than magnesium. That appears to be because human beings grew up near the ocean where seawater contains three times more magnesium than calcium which meant much more magnesium in their diets. Thus we evolved mechanisms that grabbed and stored calcium but released excess magnesium (the laxative effect)." And perhaps that could mean that we may not have mechanisms that ''grab and store'' magnesium as much, compared to other minerals that were present in lower quantities, so we regularly may keep needing magnesium. Which our ancestors perhaps simply absorbed from the seawater or from eating a lot of seafood.

If there is clear seawater out there, I'd guess that swimming in it now and then could be a way to absorb some magnesium through the skin. Or to take a bath in water enriched with dead sea salt. Personally I have a nice amount of unrefined celtic sea salt on my meals each day, which I absolutely love, and I also like the idea of sole, thanks for posting Psyche! Also, I am still taking my magnesium supplement to be sure.

 

[LQB]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Right now I have organ meat nearly every day, and besides being the food source that I notice keeps hunger at bay for longer than any other (very useful for me due to my working schedule), I am no longer constipated. I still take vitamin C every day, although less then before, but only take magnesium once or twice a week, rather then daily as I used to. I might try a week without each just to check for any bowel changes.

Same here Gertrudes. For a typical morning meal I mix/heat a good dollop of liver pate with a portion of slow-cooked beef ribs/chuck (in bone broth) - it turns into a delicious stew - so we get liver/organs everyday. No constipation now in a long time and BMs have normalized to every morning. I'm doing the Lipo C experiment (and Lipo B) and occasionally add cod liver oil, fish oil, iodine, and Mg ascorbate.

autonomic dysregulation: tachycardia, palpitations, light headedness,
low blood pressure and fainting
constipation and bloating
muscle pain, cramps
joint pain, athritis
hearing problems, tinnitus
attention and memory problems
depression, mind racing
insomnia, fatigue
unexplained bruising and bleeding
restless leg syndrome
flushing and rosacea

Bold in the above list is what I've dealt with in the Paleo to KD transition. A few months ago I had some sudden hearing loss in my right ear (again). My local Doc gave me a shot of cortisone, and after about 2 days, the hearing loss cleared up. Early on I did have some tachycardia/palpitations - but that has been gone for a long time. The low BP and tendency to blackout on standing quickly are improving but still evident. I'm using a Siberian herb adaptogenic tea to see if I can get the adrenals adjusted to deal with the low BP/blackout tendency.

Psyche's low-dose cortisone protocol might help resolve some of the problems in the above list and confirm the histamine source.