Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions

[whitecoast]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I've been making some experiments and observations about the KD vis a vis nutrient content. I notice that I HAVE to take magnesium supplements or things don't "move". So I started wondering about this. See the post in the Magnesium thread here:

http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,2354.msg402007.html#msg402007

That's very interesting and I have wondered about how our ancestors obtained those needed nutrients, since I also have noticed a need to supplement magnesium and potassium at night or else I get leg cramps. Take the pills, and no leg cramps. Upping salt intake is also something I could experiment with too. But yeah, I have to take magnesium now even with being on the KD or no "movement" and leg cramps.

I think our ancestors had a much more diverse selection of plants and animals in their diet, so I'm sure that helped them cover all the nutritional bases. Plus the soils had much more magnesium and other essential cations than they do today, thanks to agriculture. :)

 

[Eva]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I expect that the ketone meter will provide the more useful results. Keep in mind that ketone levels vary over the course of a day, and may tend to be higher later in the day. There is no standard "ketogenic range" that I know of for the plasma BOHB readings that the meter provides, but a typical range that I have encountered in my reading is 0.5 to 5.0 mmol/L. Any lower and you aren't going to see much benefit. Much higher and you may have problems with it, although that may depend on the individual.

I seem to have an upper limit of about 2.4, which may be related to my fasting glucose that doesn't drop below about 90 mg/dL. Everybody is different. When I am finished losing weight I will look into bringing the glucose down further. It has taken a year and a half so far to lose 40 pounds, and it looks like I have some months to go still. Rapid weight loss this is not! But I do not go hungry. It is interesting, because even when I fast (intermittent fast) for 16 or 20 hours, I don't usually become hungry until I am ready to eat again.

I knew there were specifics about using the ketone meter in the thread and I was going to browse through it again tonight to find them, yet it would have taken me a while, so thank you for posting this, Megan!
As for not being hungry, I see what you mean! In fact I'm having a really hard time eating the protein I need, not to mention squeezing in 3 meals per day.

All I can say is me too!!! Thank you so much for posting this - you may have helped me solve some issues that have been plaguing me for months! I have had a persistent rash all over my stomach and back for many months and nothing has been working. I have tried eliminating all the obvious things, but it never occurred to me that bacon and bone broth could be part of the problem!! Not to mention avocados and chocolate and black tea (all favorites of mine) I have also tried using the french green clay - drinkable as well as using it on my body, taking supplements to help my liver, liposomal C and glutathione as well as using the FIR blanket. I have been growing frustrated b/c nothing was working!

So - while I am not looking forward to getting rid of many more of my favorite foods, it will be well worth it if this finally works! ;)

Hi aleana,
I'm glad you found Psyche's article as useful and eye-opening as I did! I just wanted to note I was quoting Psyche and the bit about secondary common symptoms was taken from that same article.
I'm sure you were already aware of that but the way I posted that quote could be misguiding.
I hope tweaking your diet a tiny bit will help you with all the symptoms you described.

In addition, that may help explain the intermittent insomnia, tinnitis, mood swings, heart palpitations...etc etc. All things that I could not explain. Yeah - back to square one!

It sounds like square one on a spiral though, not a circle. That can only be good. Good luck!

Regarding magnesium, I think what Dr. Carolyn Dean said may be another reason why we're not getting enough magnesium which wasn't a problem for our early ancestors who lived near the sea: "our body holds onto calcium much more than magnesium. That appears to be because human beings grew up near the ocean where seawater contains three times more magnesium than calcium which meant much more magnesium in their diets. Thus we evolved mechanisms that grabbed and stored calcium but released excess magnesium (the laxative effect)." And perhaps that could mean that we may not have mechanisms that ''grab and store'' magnesium as much, compared to other minerals that were present in lower quantities, so we regularly may keep needing magnesium. Which our ancestors perhaps simply absorbed from the seawater or from eating a lot of seafood.

If there is clear seawater out there, I'd guess that swimming in it now and then could be a way to absorb some magnesium through the skin. Or to take a bath in water enriched with dead sea salt. Personally I have a nice amount of unrefined celtic sea salt on my meals each day, which I absolutely love, and I also like the idea of sole, thanks for posting Psyche! Also, I am still taking my magnesium supplement to be sure.

That seems very probable imo. I was actually considering pairing resistance exercise and cold baths by just going swimming but I'll need to muster a lot of courage for that in this weather.
As a funny aside, I used to steal the salt when I was a child, pour small amounts in my hand and eat it slowly. Of course the adults where disgusted. Then, years later, I was told that my father used to do the same thing and embarrass my mother in restaurants! So, now I can indulge in my old habit without remorse. I take a small rock of Himalayan salt and eat it like a piece of candy. Yummy!

 

[Gaby]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

It's lucky that I decided to go with the Sott article's suggestion and start with stock! Plus, I tried hard to find decent bacon from grass fed animals and I gave up. I've ordered pork bellies instead and thought it might be the same thing.
Thanks for indirectly confirming that thought for me Psyche!

I also got the blood ketone meter and the ketostix and I'll follow-up with numbers in a couple of days.
I had ordered Lyposomal VitC - along with magnesium and potassium - a few weeks ago so it should be here soon, then I'll have a comparison measurement to post.

So you are doing (or will soon do) what I was planning to do. I haven't strictly started because I had some coffee today. I know... I should know better. But I'm getting there. I know I need to do it. So we can follow up this experiment and report back. Spring season starts soon and typically I become more intolerant to spices. So far so good though although I'm still taking a low dose of cortisone any now and then which also helps with allergies.

I've been having stock too, that is, fresh fish head soup. I didn't knew it tasted so good!

 

[Gaby]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

So - while I am not looking forward to getting rid of many more of my favorite foods, it will be well worth it if this finally works! ;)

I think it is a worthwhile experiment. It is doable and with some modifications, perhaps you'll hardly notice. Stock instead of broth and fresh bacon (pork belly) instead of cured bacon, stuff like that. That you find it hard to drop tea or cocoa (just to give a couple of examples), might be a sign that it could be interesting to eliminate it for awhile as a test. Perhaps this histamine vicious cycle reinforces addictions and brain inflammation conditions. There goes my dopamine fix-coffee! Ouch!

 

[Laura]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

There's another powerful reason for taking magnesium. I was recently reading some papers about the enzyme, telomerase, which slows the shortening of telomeres in a cell. Telomerase also appears to REVERSE the aging process. When telomerase gets turned on, rejuvenation takes place, apparently, rather rapidly. Brain cells that have gone dormant can come back to life, the brain can produce new neurons, shrunken organs can become plump and active again, sense of smell returns, life is extended, and so forth. All that's fine, but what is really important is that one's faculties are restored and that means being better able to think and work which is what is important to me. I have so much work to complete and I need clarity and energy.

So, anyway, I'm reading about this. Of course, there is a company that sells a HUGELY expensive supplement that supposedly activates TA-65, the telomerase turn on thing. Well, obviously, I can't afford to do that. So I kept digging.

Seems that in studies of astronauts, they found that their cardiovascular system aged ten times faster in space than it did on land. All the symptoms that come with shortened telomeres appear faster in space. So they started comparing telomere lengths before and after space missions.

The studies found that there was one single nutrient that stabilized astronauts in space: magnesium. It stabilized their DNA and it promotes DNA replication and transcription and, in fact, your body needs it to make its own telomerase. In space, it seems, magnesium levels in astronauts had dropped by 35% in the muscles, and about 1 to 2% in the bones.

The other thing that the studies show is related to long telomeres is HDL. High-density-lipoprotein. As we know, saturated fats raise HDL levels. Another thing that raises HDL is taking niacin and getting plenty of B12, which you probably would be getting on a keto diet. A little extra E now and then is good. And, of course, doing the EE program regularly!!!

The above, along with our already known high intensity work-outs that trigger wild mtDNA to get kicked into action appears to be the "Fountain of Youth".

I snagged the following references from a study that condenses all of the above:

Mary Armanios, et. al. “Short Telomeres are Sufficient to Cause the Degenerative Defects Associated with Aging.” Am J Hum Genet. 2009 December 11; 85(6): 823–832.

Horner J, Maratos-Flier E, Depinho R, et. al. “Telomerase reactivation reverses tissue degeneration in aged telomerase-deficient mice.” Nature. 2011 Jan 6;469(7328):102-6.

Espel E, Et. Al. “The rate of leukocyte telomere shortening predicts mortality from cardiovascular disease in elderly men.” AGING, 2008. Vol 1, No 1 , pp 81-88.

Cawthon, R.M., Smith, K.R., O’Brien, E., et al, “Association between telomere length in blood and mortality in people aged 60 years or older,” Lancet 2003, 361(9355):393-395

Willeit P., et al, “Telomere Length and Risk of Incident Cancer and Cancer Mortality,” JAMA, 2010; 304(1): 69-75

Scott W Brouilette PhD, et. al. “Telomere length, risk of coronary heart disease...” The Lancet, January 2007;Volume 369, Issue 9556, , Pages 81-82.

Laurent Savale, et. al. “Shortened Telomeres in Circulating Leukocytes of Patients with Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease.” American Journal of Respiratory and Critical Care Medicine, 2009; Vol 179. pp. 566-571.

Sanders JL., et. al. “The association of cataract with leukocyte telomere length in older adults:” J Gerontol A Biol Sci Med Sci. 2011 Jun;66(6):639-45

Testa R. “Leukocyte telomere length is associated with complications of Type-2 diabetes mellitus.” Diabet Med. 2011 Jun 21

Masi S, et. al. “Oxidative stress, chronic inflammation, and telomere length in patients with periodontitis.” Free Radic Biol Med. 2011 Mar 15;50(6):730-5

Costenbader KH, Prescott J, Zee RY, De Vivo I. “Immunosenescence and rheumatoid arthritis: does telomere shortening predict impending disease?” Autoimmun Rev. 2011 Jul;10(9):569-73 10 Harley, C., Weimin, L., et al, “A Natural Product Telomerase Activator as Part of a Health Maintenance Program,” Rejuvenation Research 2010

Wong LS, et. al. “Renal dysfunction is associated with shorter telomere length in heart failure.” Clin Res Cardiol. Oct 2009;98(10):629- 34.

Honig LS, Schupf N, Lee JH, Tang MX, Mayeux R. “Shorter telomeres are associated with mortality in those with APOE epsilon4 and dementia.” Ann Neurol. 2006 Aug;60(2):181-7.

Devore EE, Prescott J, De Vivo I, Grodstein F. “Relative telomere length and cognitive decline in the Nurses’ Health Study.” Neurosci Lett. 2011 Mar 29;492(1):15-8

Christensen, Kaare, et al, “Perceived age as clinically useful biomarker of ageing: cohort study,” BMJ 2009;339:b5262

Rowe W. “Correcting magnesium deficiencies may prolong life.” Clin Interv Aging. 2012;7:51-4.

Zekeriya U, Ariogul S, Cankurtaran M, et al. Intra-erythrocyte magnesium levels and their clinical implication in geriatric outpatients. J Nutr Health Aging. 2010;14(10):810–814.

Barbagallo M, Belvedere M, Dominguez LJ. Magnesium homeostasis and aging. Magnes Res. 2009;22(4):235–246.

Reffelmann, T., Ittermann, T., Dörr, M., et al, “Low serum magnesium concentrations predict cardiovascular and all-cause mortality,” Atherosclerosis June 12, 2011

Dei Cas A. et. al. “…cardiovascular disease and reduced HDL-cholesterol levels are associated with shorter leukocyte telomere length…” Nutr Metab Cardiovasc Dis. Aug 2011

Weverling-Rijnsburger AW, Blauw GJ, Lagaay AM, Knook DL, Meinders AE, Westendorp RG. “Total cholesterol and risk of mortality in the oldest old.” Lancet. 1997 Oct 18;350(9085):1119-23

Linke, et al, “Effects of extended-release niacin on lipid profile and adipocyte biology in patients with impaired glucose tolerance,” Atherosclerosis 2008

Li H, Jönsson BA, Lindh CH, Albin M, Broberg K. “N-nitrosamines are associated with shorter telomere length.” Scand J Work Environ Health. 2011 Jul;37(4):316-24

Ramin Farzaneh-Far, MD et. al. “Association of Marine Omega-3 Fatty Acid Levels With Telomeric Aging in Patients With Coronary Heart Disease.” JAMA. 2010 January 20; 303(3): 250.

Richards, J Brent, et al, “Higher serum vitamin D concentrations are associated with longer leukocyte telomere length in women,” Journal of Clinical Nutrition Nov. 2007; Vol. 86, No. 5, 1420-1425.

Wolkowitz OM, et. al. “Leukocyte telomere length in major depression:” PLoS One. 2011 Mar 23;6(3):e17837

Wikgrenemail M, et. al. “Short Telomeres in Depression and the General Population Are Associated with a Hypocortisolemic State.” Biological Psychiatry. February 2012;Volume 71, Issue 4 , Pages 294-300.

Canela A, Vera E, Klatt P, Blasco MA. “High-throughput telomere length quantification by FISH and its application to human population studies.” Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2007 Mar 27;104(13):5300-5.

 

[mcb]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

One of the most dangerous aspects of space travel has been eating a diet designed by dietitians. So magnesium deficiency is no surprise there.

I am glad you are thinking about this. Scientific research being what it is -- a mess -- it might be necessary to just guess what to do, guided by common sense and that part of the research that seems to apply. And of course the Cs' clues. I could use a clue right about now.

 

[Voyageur]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

The studies found that there was one single nutrient that stabilized astronauts in space: magnesium. It stabilized ther DNA and it promotes DNA replication and transcription and, in fact, your body needs it to make its own telomerase. In space, it seems, magnesium levels in astronauts had dropped by 35% in the muscles, and about 1 to 2% in the bones.

Fascinating, and inspirational reasons to pay special attention to magnesium.

 

[Laura]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

One of the most dangerous aspects of space travel has been eating a diet designed by dietitians. So magnesium deficiency is no surprise there.

I am glad you are thinking about this. Scientific research being what it is -- a mess -- it might be necessary to just guess what to do, guided by common sense and that part of the research that seems to apply. And of course the Cs' clues. I could use a clue right about now.

Yup. There is no "one size fits all" diet or solution though we think that there is a ballpark. Plus, all the epigenetic changes people have to deal with and the damage from toxins in our world added to a terrible diet in general. Each person needs to learn as much as they can, utilize the medical system perspicaciously, and proceed as though through a minefield. Humanity really is going through some kind of transformation/possible extinction period. Science appears to have done us no favors in messing things up so badly.

 

[Laura]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Anyone who is having problems on the KD, please read this new thread.

http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,30709.0.html

I've been digging into this for a couple of days and for those who may be suffering various symptoms, it might be worth reading the papers I've linked as well as doing further research. One thing about it is: if, as I am wondering, many auto-immune conditions could be symptomatic of being either heterozygous or homozygous for this condition, the solution is so freaking simple that it boggles the mind: you just unload the excess iron by decanting blood regularly. Of course, if the condition has damaged tissues or organs (and it can vary from type to type and individual to individual), you may have to receive treatment for that, but otherwise, if there is something to this idea of mine, there doesn't seem to be any reason that healing cannot occur as long as you continue to decant at intervals once the iron load has been brought down.

Also, there is some suggestion in the first paper I linked in the thread that the condition can confer benefits under some pretty strange conditions, even including plague.

 

[WIN 52]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Since going on magnesium daily my heart problems have seemed to ease to the point that I have been able to drop the simvastatin drug. I went back on after my heart started giving me problems about a year ago.

I feel the Keto diet has started to recover my health to a point, and with adding regular magnesium that point has seemingly extended. My left foot damaged in 1980, which has had limited feeling since, seems to be changing with new feelings that have not been there for over 30 years. My right foot has had limited feeling since 2005 where my right side was paralyzed due to a stroke where Dr's were at a loss to explain. This side is also waking up at a more rapid pace with noticeable changes where before the changes were almost not perceptible.

My heart problems have seemed to ease also. I have been quite concerned since going carb reduced because of the heart pains when exerting energy or working my heart for about a year now. The recent changes since heavy magnesium supplementation have been positive enough that I have not taken the drugs for a couple of weeks now with improved performance of the heart muscle.

I was taking mag. but not daily up until two weeks ago.
I have also added betaine HCL back into the daily routine, which seems to spur the eviction of lung pathogens( diagnosed with mild asthma since 4 yrs. old). I have noticed some action around my thyroid lately, which seems to be shedding pathogens also.
My pork is raised indoors, mostly, so I add vitamin D.
I am using Krill oil supplements.

Thanks again for your dedication and work Laura. I am sure glad you have endured to this point in time. We all seem to be fighting for survival in one way or another. There is hope as long as we stand witness.

 

[mcb]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

...
My heart problems have seemed to ease also. I have been quite concerned since going carb reduced because of the heart pains when exerting energy or working my heart for about a year now. The recent changes since heavy magnesium supplementation have been positive enough that I have not taken the drugs for a couple of weeks now with improved performance of the heart muscle.
...

You may want to look into some other things to help repair possible damage caused by the drug. A well-known possible side effects of statins is heart failure. Since statins act against CoQ10, you might want to supplement that if you don't already, but this is not something that I have researched myself.

 

[WIN 52]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Forgot to add vitamin C crystals daily. I tried to make liposomal C and will need more work on that. Not sure if it worked properly. I was able to ingest it but it gave me a sore throat.

Thanks Megan.
I was looking at the coq10 bottle in the store last week, I guess that I should have "listened" better, to the promptings. I said I will wait a bit so I can notice if there is a change. I didn't want to introduce several new products at the same time, but this possibly can't wait. I was told that this would help, by my guide, yet I hesitated.

It seems we are distracted/programmed so heavily around the areas we need to pay attention to that trusting we are doing or getting the proper signals is problematic.

Recently, I was driving along behind a transport truck thinking, " I wonder if it is safe to pass?" My guide came in saying, "Don't bother!" As I have worked extensively with this while driving, it was automatic to not even take a look to see if the road was clear. Sure enough there were long gangs of vehicles for at least 10 km from that point.

There were some mental exchanges with my guide during this time till I was told, "Ok, it is safe to pass now". I hesitated for a moment thinking "there is a blind curve coming up" but the instructions were more clear, "Go ahead and pass, it's safe". So, I did pass the truck without even looking if the road was clear. When I pulled out to pass the road was clear. Only one problem, there was a curve in the road right where the pass took place. I heard "Go!", so I kept going, got by the truck on the blind curve and once the view was open I saw more gangs of vehicles headed in my direction. My guide was right, it was safe to pass. And, the only place to pass for another 25km, due to heavy traffic. The exchanges with my guide are much more clear than they were before, which I believe is thanks to the Keto diet.

The problem I still have is working with this information stream when other things come along. During my life, it seems that I have been programmed to not trust anything, finding myself seemingly turning away from things that can truly be of benefit, even ignoring promptings. I have asked myself on many occasions, "Why do I do this"? I know in my core that this is what I should do, yet I hesitate.

It seems during times where my physical manifestation becomes in danger of being extinguished, the promptings come through loud and clear. In fact right after my stroke is when I had several experiences which caused/encouraged me to begin a search that eventually led me here. This is the group I was told about in the 1980's, by my guide. Yet, why do I hesitate? Is the programming that heavy?

I can think the programming must be even worse for the people who don't hear any of what this site has to offer. People who have no where to go for clarity and information without agenda, other than the well being of humanity. It seems they have just given up on everything.

On the bright side, this diet can truly help a persons way of thinking as well as physical performance.

 

[Mrs. Peel]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

It seems during times where my physical manifestation becomes in danger of being extinguished, the promptings come through loud and clear. In fact right after my stroke is when I had several experiences which caused/encouraged me to begin a search that eventually led me here. This is the group I was told about in the 1980's, by my guide. Yet, why do I hesitate? Is the programming that heavy?

I would question who or what your "guide" is. That sounds pretty New Age-ish...

 

[mcb]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I would question who or what your "guide" is. That sounds pretty New Age-ish...

It sounds downright deadly as a means of knowing when to pass when driving.

 

[Eva]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

The studies found that there was one single nutrient that stabilized astronauts in space: magnesium. It stabilized their DNA and it promotes DNA replication and transcription and, in fact, your body needs it to make its own telomerase. In space, it seems, magnesium levels in astronauts had dropped by 35% in the muscles, and about 1 to 2% in the bones.

The other thing that the studies show is related to long telomeres is HDL. High-density-lipoprotein. As we know, saturated fats raise HDL levels. Another thing that raises HDL is taking niacin and getting plenty of B12, which you probably would be getting on a keto diet. A little extra E now and then is good. And, of course, doing the EE program regularly!!!

This is pretty amazing! Thank you for all the ongoing research.

And a small update. I had a rough night yesterday. Woke up at 5.00 literally frozen. I was trembling under a duvet and 2 blankets. I threw up, felt totally miserable and went back to sleep for 1 more hour before going to work. 17 hours later I'm finally back home and surprisingly I went through the day effectively enough. On Friday I'll receive my first batch of certified organic, pastured meat. It was hell to find that but now I'll eventually have access to proper food (rather than the grain fed organic meat I had to use until now).

Still no numbers to show from my ketone meter because I just tried using it and found out that the battery it came with was already worn out. I'll replace it within the week.
Generally struggling for time here. It's never been more hectic time-wise in my life.