Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions

[Arwenn]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

So here's my update on the diet which I started 2 months ago. I started out by cutting out all bread wheat gluten. Then I cut out sugar by switching to stevia. I haven't cut out dairy yet, because since giving up the sugar by God have I been having cravings!! I may have a candida issue, although I don't have any symptoms of fungal infections. I have milk in my tea, and some cheese & yogurt occasionally, so it's not like I'm guzzling down the milk. And if by chance there is some gluten that has been snuck in somewhere my gut tells me immediately by bloating, so going back to my old diet is not an option for me.

So, I figure I'm not eating enough fat at all and too much protein. I have all the symptoms of lowering my carbs (frequent urination, headaches occasionally, tiredness, lethargy and sleeping issues, no leg cramps as I'm taking Magnesium). I eat bacon and scrambled eggs with lots of butter, a range of fatty meats like lamb ribs, sausages, lamb cutlets and broth occasionally. With 27 degree days I'm not inclined to want to have soups/broth much. I've also been eating salted roasted nuts as a snack at work, which I am cutting out completely for the moment.

So any suggestions from you guys would be beneficial. I need to throw in some more supplements to help me over the hurdle, and this is what I was thinking about:
Celtic sea salt- 1/2 tsp in tall glass water in the morning
Magnesium
L-glutamine & L-carnitine
CoQ10
Potassium
Vit C
Caprylic acid by way of coconut oil to combat any Candida (starting with 1tsp and building up)
Slippery Elm to help heal the gut
Probiotics for same and Candida

Any suggestions on tweaking the above & advice on best time to take the individual supplements would be great. I also will visit the pharmacy to see if they have a test for measuring blood ketones. I've also read about FAR sauna blankets and if any Aussie forum members can direct me to a good source nationally (I will create a post in that thread), I would be very grateful.

 

[aragorn]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Arwenn, from what I can tell, you're doing pretty good. I remember that during the first year of being on the diet, having enough potassium and salt helped with muscle cramps (magnesium of course, too).

The only thing that you might want to monitor closely, is that you don't over-do the detoxing. The paleo-diet is in itself already detoxing and killing off candida and god knows what other bacteria, so adding caprylic acid to the mix of supplements could in the worst case make you feel very ill due to the 'herxheimer reaction'.

Going milk-free, or at least trying it later on, is also important for most people. Why not ditch at least the yoghurt?

 

[cubbex]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Try to focus the intake of carbs from complex carbs while at the same time you are reducing it. I took a lot of my carbs out, and I didn't use to eat fiber and veggies and my energy levels crashed. I know it may be annoying, but counting how many carbs you are taking in helps, you have a measure. If you can, write a journal with the grams of carbs you are taking in and taking out, the type of supplements you are using, the type of magnesium, how much of it, how much potassium, and the stage of your diet that is how long you've been in it. Also changes on your energy levels and mood.

Be careful with magnesium too, it may cause lethargy from what i've read if taken more than needed. What about some Omega 3 fatty acids and fish oils? are you taking some of them?

 

[Arwenn]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Arwenn, from what I can tell, you're doing pretty good. I remember that during the first year of being on the diet, having enough potassium and salt helped with muscle cramps (magnesium of course, too).

The only thing that you might want to monitor closely, is that you don't over-do the detoxing. The paleo-diet is in itself already detoxing and killing off candida and god knows what other bacteria, so adding caprylic acid to the mix of supplements could in the worst case make you feel very ill due to the 'herxheimer reaction'.

Going milk-free, or at least trying it later on, is also important for most people. Why not ditch at least the yoghurt?

OK, thanks for the feedback Aragorn. I know I have to ditch the milk at some stage, and as for the yoghurt I only ever eat that when I cook a curry but as I'm finding out, my tummy does not like 'em spices. It's really the milk in my tea, and oh how I do love a cup of Earl Grey tea sweetened with stevia! And I will go easy on the detox, I really can't cope with any more symptoms than what I already have!

 

[Arwenn]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I was scanning the Daily Telegraph newspaper & came upon this article:

[quote author=Daily Telegraph 9 April, 2014 Australia]

Paleo Diet author Dr Loren Cordain said it is not for weight loss
IT’S the eat like a caveman weight-loss regime embraced by Hollywood royalty but the Paleo diet was originally designed to help combat the chronic diseases faced by the modern world, its founder says.
Although slammed by some nutritionists, celebrities like Miranda Kerr, actress Megan Fox and cricketer Andrew Flintoff are all followers of the diet, which advocates ditching sugar, processed foods, grains and dairy.
It has become so popular it was the most Googled diet of 2013. {in other words, watch this space, the PTB are going into overdrive to steer people away from the Truth}

Colorado State University researcher Dr Loren Cordain, author of The Paleo Diet, has told News Corp Australia it was never his intention to write a book about a new diet craze — that was simply his editor’s way of boosting sales. “The idea we had had little to do with weight control, we were more interested in cardiovascular effects, cancer, acne and myopia,” he said. “Most of the book is directed at chronic disease in the Western world ... it is a lifelong way of eating to reduce the risk of chronic disease.” Cordain will be in Australia later this week to speak to the Bioceuticals Research Symposium on integrative medicine in Sydney. He will argue modern processed foods “are at odds with our ancient and conservative genome” and this manifests itself as various chronic illnesses which have been dubbed the diseases of civilisation.

His visit comes after a two-year trial in post menopausal women in Denmark found the Paleo diet produced more weight loss at six months than another diet but the advantage faded after two years. However, the study found after two years those women on the Paleo diet had a significantly greater reduction in levels of the triglycerides linked to heart disease than women on the diet recommended by Nordic nutritionists. Research from Melbourne has found a Paleo style diet that also includes consumption of whole grains (banned from the Paleo diet) improved acne by 50 per cent. And Dr Cordain says emerging research is showing the diet can help those with irritable bowel, Crohn’s disease and Colitis. The diet is also useful for coeliacs who can’t eat most grains, and the 3-7 per cent of the population who have gluten sensitivity, Dr Cordain says.

Nutritionists and anthropologists {erm, yeah, who exactly??}have slammed the diet and claim the meat, fruit and vegetables we eat today are nothing like those consumed 10,000 years ago. Leading dietitian Dr Rosemary Stanton, who advised the government on national food guidelines gives the Paleo diet “a tick for condemning consumption of ultra processed food”. However, she says it promotes a very high consumption of red meat even though the World Cancer Research Fund found this was a causative factor in bowel cancer {a very poorly controlled study as mentioned by Dr. Phinney in one of his talks}. To get enough calcium from vegetables rather than dairy those on the diet would need to consume kilograms of Asian vegetables, and it was also hard to get enough fibre on the diet, she said. “Humans have been eating grains and dairy foods for 10,000 years and for the first 9,950 we didn’t gain weight,” she said. {the issue isn't just weight, it's chronic disease, and fibre is the issue}

The real reason for our weight problems can be linked to the fact there were only 600-800 foods available until the advent of supermarkets introduced 30,000 new products, most of which were ultra processed, she said.
“I think if you’re going to follow that diet you should live in a cave and wear animal skins,” she said.
[/quote]

I was waiting for the PTB to put some spin on the keto diet- the moment there's some awareness they come along and distort it. I like the whole 'red meat causes cancer' fear-mongering tactic, & the attack on people who choose this diet as being cave-men. Rosemary Stanton is the epitome of the narrow-minded characters we have on the advisory boards to the gubberment who continue to advocate death-by-food-pyramid guidelines. I can only hope that Ms. Stanton's diet catches up with her someday

 

[Laura]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Dr Rosemary Stanton, who advised the government on national food guidelines ... [said] it was also hard to get enough fibre on the diet, she said. “Humans have been eating grains and dairy foods for 10,000 years and for the first 9,950 we didn’t gain weight,” she said.

That's a really uneducated woman. Every archaeological/paleontological study I've ever read has mentioned the fact that you can tell the difference between the hunter/gatherers and the agricultural societies by the poor health, size, of the latter and the robustness and good teeth of the former. And, as we have learned the hard way, fiber ain't all it's cracked up to be!

 

[awakener]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

So, I figure I'm not eating enough fat at all and too much protein. I have all the symptoms of lowering my carbs (frequent urination, headaches occasionally, tiredness, lethargy and sleeping issues, no leg cramps as I'm taking Magnesium). I eat bacon and scrambled eggs with lots of butter, a range of fatty meats like lamb ribs, sausages, lamb cutlets and broth occasionally. With 27 degree days I'm not inclined to want to have soups/broth much. I've also been eating salted roasted nuts as a snack at work, which I am cutting out completely for the moment.

So any suggestions from you guys would be beneficial. I need to throw in some more supplements to help me over the hurdle, and this is what I was thinking about

Hey Arwenn, sounds like you are doing great. Something that helped me was that "Bulletproof Coffee" idea. We don't get it in South Africa, so I make it like this:

1) cup of hot coffee
2) 50g butter
3) about 50ml coconut cream

chuck it in the blender / thermomix and blitz it until it emulsifies.

if you have it in the morning, it really drops your hunger level - it's about 500 cal - normally I'll then skip lunch unless I get hungry. The MCTs in the coconut cream kind of give your ketosis a jump start

You can also vary it:
- make it with tea
- add a block or two of chocolate (I sometimes add dark chocolate w/ salt)
- add a spoon of turmeric
- you can use pure MCT oil instead (which is what they recommend)

It might (i think it will) help with the dairy cravings.

Also something that I realised, is that when you're eating fatty food there are two things that your body knows but your conscious mind doesn't immediatel y realize:
1) because the food is more nutritionally dense, you need much less volume
2) it's easy to overdo the protein again because you're in the habit of eating more food

So I found what helped is:
1) Consciously tell yourself need LESS food. For me it was like "Oh, OK - my body actually already new this"
2) Protein you seem to need 1-2g per kg of lean mass so say 60-120g per day. This relates to say 200+g of steak so not that much. If you overdo the protein, depending on your metabolism, it may up your blood glucose by being converted to sugar through gluconeogenesis, so dip in and out (and maybe skip deliberate protein once a week) and see how you feel.

Also in terms of supplements, yours look great, but maybe vitamin B3 and K2 while your gut is still sorting itself out

Good luck!

 

[luc]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Hey Arwenn, sounds like you are doing great. Something that helped me was that "Bulletproof Coffee" idea. We don't get it in South Africa, so I make it like this:

1) cup of hot coffee
2) 50g butter
3) about 50ml coconut cream

chuck it in the blender / thermomix and blitz it until it emulsifies.

if you have it in the morning, it really drops your hunger level - it's about 500 cal - normally I'll then skip lunch unless I get hungry. The MCTs in the coconut cream kind of give your ketosis a jump start

You can also vary it:
- make it with tea
- add a block or two of chocolate (I sometimes add dark chocolate w/ salt)
- add a spoon of turmeric
- you can use pure MCT oil instead (which is what they recommend)

It might (i think it will) help with the dairy cravings.

That's what came to my mind as well. The bullet proof coffee/tea helps me a lot to get through the day. And it tastes like a cappuccino/milk tea, only better! I also second that it's really amazing how little food we actually need. When I (quite slowly) transitioned to the new diet, I initially got very (too) skinny, I think partly because I just couldn't get enough fat into my diet. Now that I'm better adapted and with the help of bullet-proof coffee, broth, sausages, lard, butter and exercises, I regained weight and sometimes I actually can't believe that I'm not falling apart given the fact that I eat so little!

I usually have a broth in the morning with some sausages in it and a bullet proof coffee, then skip lunch and have an "early dinner" at around 6pm. Speaking of broth, my wife and I had both problems with the taste at the beginning, so if that's an issue for you, you might want to experiment a little with spices. We often take coconut milk (without additives!), some seasonal vegetables and turmeric, put the (already cooked) broth in it and cook the whole thing for an hour or so and then blend it. We recently put a little orange peel in it - delicious! So if taste's an issue, you can experiment - for us, the broth is really an energy boost in the morning and we miss it very much when we can't have it!

 

[Arwenn]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

luc and awakener thanks for the headsup on the bullet-proof coffee recipe, which I recall reading in this thread quite a few pages back. I found this recipe that Laura posted in another thread here:

Another: if you tolerate coconut, use coconut cream, several egg yolks, big chunk of melted butter, vanilla, a small bit of xylitol, to make a FAT milkshake!

Just put the butter, xylitol (tsp) and coconut cream in a saucepan, bring ALMOST to a boil, take off the heat, beat in several egg yolks thorougly, chill in fridge for a bit, and then maybe put in the blender before drinking or stir well.

You could also use it as a hot drink, like a warm vanilla milkshake.

Using cocoa is okay, but when you do that, you have to increase the xylitol to counter the bitterness of the chocolate and that sort of cancels out the super low carb state. With coconut cream and butter, you hardly need any xylitol.

Anyway, if you need to get a couple hundred grams of fat into you, this is one way.

I have just made this with 3 egg yolks and probs 50 gm butter (next time I'll be more liberal)- I found I did need more stevia even though I'd used the xylitol, and I'm pleased to say it was yummy! :)

I'm so happy to have a fat smoothie I'm happy with! Thanks so to Laura for a great recipe.

 

[Laura]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Hey Arwenn, sounds like you are doing great. Something that helped me was that "Bulletproof Coffee" idea. We don't get it in South Africa, so I make it like this:

1) cup of hot coffee
2) 50g butter
3) about 50ml coconut cream

chuck it in the blender / thermomix and blitz it until it emulsifies.

I would avoid the coffee if at all possible as it tends to stimulate insulin all by itself and has been shown to have gluten like effects.

if you have it in the morning, it really drops your hunger level - it's about 500 cal - normally I'll then skip lunch unless I get hungry. The MCTs in the coconut cream kind of give your ketosis a jump start.

You should be eating a fatty/protein breakfast in the morning, NOT trying to "jump start" anything because that will only end up damaging your adrenals. Coffee AND carbs create stress in the body. Read Gabor Mate's book "When the Body Says No" to learn what constant, low-level stress can do to you. He doesn't address the food part, but it is clear that a carb diet or a diet where coffee is used as a stimulant, is one of the stress factors that can destroy your health.

From another thread mentioned above by Arwenn:

As I reported in the keto thread, this is simply scrumptious and something I'd happily have regularly to help with the fat intake. Thanks for a great recipe- I know we have a recipe board but I think that was pre-keto, so maybe we should compile all these great recipes into one thread.

Good idea, can you do it? Thread "Keto Recipes".

Also, you ought not to forget that you can stay in ketosis having a certain amount of carbs per day as in veggies. The experts point out that different people have different levels that are tolerated while staying in ketosis. Get a good carb/protein counter and try to adjust your intake scientifically.

I'm taking about 6 to 8 fish oil gels a day to augment the fat because I find it really hard to make 60% of my caloric intake fat. So I'm looking for every thing I can to help with this. (That's the reason for the butter loaded deviled eggs and the fat/coconut drink. Gotta find ways to get it down palatably since there's no whale blubber around!)

Also, best to have your last, small meal of the day slightly carby (20 to 30 grams) because too much fat late in the day makes your body supercharged!! I was getting overheated and energetic when I was supposed to be sleeping!

Remember: protein that goes above your daily requirement gets turned into sugar. So find out what is right for you and stick there.

For those who want to GAIN weight, you can have a carb tending meal or snack (staying under the limit of what you have established as your tolerance for carbs while staying in ketosis) within 30 minutes AFTER the KETO workout. This is when your body is pumping out anabolic hormones and will use that food to build muscle.

A bit of potassium in the early months is useful because your body may flush a lot out along with the water it is eliminating.

 

[Arwenn]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Since being on this diet, I can literally feel the coffee hitting my adrenals (I have no doubt my adrenals were exhausted and maybe still are). I used to drink coffee maybe once or twice a week, when I visited my local cafe for 'me time'. Now when I go to a cafe, I have peppermint tea and take my stevia along with me.

I do start my day with a fatty meal (bacon and eggs) which keeps me going till about 3pm. That's when I need to be innovative with foods, because I'm hungry but also rather time challenged (as it's school time). So sharing some recipe ideas is what I really need i.e. innovative ways of getting the fat intake while controlling the protein and carbs

 

[davey72]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Be careful with magnesium too, it may cause lethargy from what i've read if taken more than needed. What about some Omega 3 fatty acids and fish oils? are you taking some of them?

Where did you read that magnesium can cause lethargy?

 

[davey72]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

OK, thanks for the feedback Aragorn. I know I have to ditch the milk at some stage, and as for the yoghurt I only ever eat that when I cook a curry but as I'm finding out, my tummy does not like 'em spices. It's really the milk in my tea, and oh how I do love a cup of Earl Grey tea sweetened with stevia! And I will go easy on the detox, I really can't cope with any more symptoms than what I already have!

FWIW- coconut cream can be an amazing replacement for milk in tea, or coffee


Edit=Quote

 

[Laura]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?


I always take my magnesium before bed. Most people need way more than they ever get in their diets so we HAVE to supplement with it. Read "The Magnesium Miracle" thread for details.

I've never heard of it causing lethargy, but it can help if you are wound up and anxious.

 

[Muxel]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Read Gabor Mate's book "When the Body Says No" to learn what constant, low-level stress can do to you. He doesn't address the food part, but it is clear that a carb diet or a diet where coffee is used as a stimulant, is one of the stress factors that can destroy your health.

Gabor Maté didn't address the food part, but Chris Kresser did for him.
Beyond Paleo: Manage Your Stress